Guild Wars 2

Allie Murdock.8152:

Kaon.7192:

Ban the server owners and anyone who has spent more than a dozen hours in those servers since their introductions (I’m being generous with the definition of willful exploitation here).

This is an exploit that completely destroyed whatever pitiful value Glory, the only currency sPvP players had access to, had remaining. Please deal with it with at least a fraction of the gravitas that you have demonstrated for exploits that devalue gold and undermine the PvE economy.

Frankly this double standard you have shown so far on this issue speaks volumes on how seriously you guys really take sPvP as a game mode.

Sorry, what double standard? Could you explain what you mean by that?

The double standard was already pointed out. Why have these players not been banned for what is obviously a glory exploit? You banned the worst offenders for undermining the value of gold in PvE for both the karma and snowflake incidents. You need to do the same for glory in PvP, otherwise, it’s clear you don’t hold PvP in the same regard as PvE. You’re basically saying you’re not allowed to exploit in PvE but are free to do so without repercussions in PvP. I don’t think I’m twisting any truths here by stating that because that’s literally what’s happening.

Oni Link.4621:

In my honest opinion HJs are bad because:

• People that wan’t to play “seriously” without risking their rank in LB (leaderboard) don’t have any alternative. Want to play seriously? Go to solo queue and risk your rank. Don’t want to risk? Go to play random games in HJs.
• New PvPers go to HJ, play a few matches (most probably the 8v8 zergfests) and think "oh, so PvP is… “this”? seems a giant random confusing brawl, not really “technical” as it should be". And bye bye to newcomers.
• New PvPers learn to play in HJ which basically means they do not learn anything because compositions are completely random, there is no strategy involved, teams keep changing since people can leave and join anytime… They can train 1v1 if they are lucky enough to meet alone players around the map but that’s all. No teamfight or strategy learning.
• Since HJs are the “default” match, people don’t think “let’s do a match” since a game where players keep changing and teams are always unbalanced is NOT a match, is a FFA random brawl.

Solution:

• Remove HJs.
• Add Co-op (players vs bots). It will be awesome as a training ground for new players/builds (and people aiming for daily achievements will go there rather than ruining matches).
• Add a tutorial (not 3 no-sense quests) the first time you enter the Mist. The tutorial should be a simulated match with bots (maybe the player vs 1 bot). It should explain how the game works (capture points, kills, secondary objectives).
• Add a new type of matches, called “normal” (or whatever). Basically they will work the same as Arena but without leaderboards involved. Matchmaking will be PVP rank based (not Glicko based).
  It means that whenever you want to play a not-ranked (I use term “ranked” for leaderboard matches) match, you can solo queue or create a roster and the server will match you against a team of solo queuers or team with the same average PvP rank (with lowest deviation possible).
  Obviously if you queue in 2 and get in a team with a 3-man queue, then server will search for a similar composition (2+3) with same average rank.

Basically this system is the common system in online competitive games. It will also prevent all those empty HJs room so the arena list will show only custom arenas.

In all seriousness, how has this not been the model used in GW2? Why invest so much time and effort into a system that is obviously not breeding anything other than exploitation and un-informed play? At some point as a developers, I would hope ANET has the courage to objectively look at a problem, and seriously consider if your current system is even worth trying to fix or whether investing time NOW in a better solution from the ground level up is superior. I don’t know this answer, none of the community does. The fixes listed above seem like an awfully great alternative to the system in place now though. Just a thought

Allie Murdock.8152:

I’m not asking the designers, I’m asking you. These are all questions that we ask ourselves internally, and are a huge part of development. I’m trying to help you analyze this situation without bias, and with the overall health of the game in mind. This is what we do.

It feels like you’re saying there will always be leavers, so we should just let them run rampant and stop caring. Is that wrong?

I’m not denying that disconnects feel bad, but other players are being punished by people leaving these matches. If this is one step in the direction of reducing the amount of leavers, should it not be taken?

Here’s another interesting question: If this change was something that was always a part of the game since launch, would it still be bad? I know it’s hard to think without bias, especially when many of us have been playing the game for a very long time, but try to imagine what it would be like if this were always the case.

First, I think you believe that the “big issue” of HJ is with leavers. I think it is incorrect to say that.
The fact that people are leaving HJ is a consequence of other factors. Addressing these other issues will mechanically make people leave less during a HJ game.

If you want to know why people are leaving a game of HJ, you need also to know why they joined in the first place (funny, eh!).

I can only talk from my own point of view and can only guess what the reasons for people joinin HJ are for the rest of the people but I see 3 types of players in HJ (excl. custom arenas):
- Tweak a build when testing a new builds: want to hop in and out frequently to tweak builds, will probably not play very seriously
- Wait for a game of soloQ: want to hop in and out once only when the solo game pops up, will probably be play decently
- Serious play aka playing the game outside of leaderboards: want to stay in a game but will hop in and out if the team is really horrible or if the map isn’t to their liking, will probably play well

Here are the first “issues” that cause people to leave HJ:
- Where should you test builds and tweak parameters?
- What will people do waiting for soloQ?
If I was to take a guess, I would imagine these people represent 20% of HJ players (no idea frankly)? These people won’t care about leavers.

For the other people, the ones that want to play a serious game outside of leaderboard:
- How can the team not be horrible?
- How can they like the maps they are playing on always?
For “serious HJ”, a balanced match is what is generally “fun”. If the winning team felt winning was a challenge, and the opposing team felt they had a good chance to win the match, both teams are happy.
Number of players and leavers might be a part of the HJ issue, but for me the big issue is teams imbalance – not in terms of numbers, but in terms of ranks, as in a game opposing “5 ranks 10” vs “4 ranks 50”, the ranks 50 will win for sure.
For me, Autobalance taking care of the teams composition would solve 80% of the issues for “serious HJ”:
- From spectator mode, you press “join game” and are assigned to a specific team automatically, Autobalance takes care of the team for you.
- Someone leaves during a game, autobalance will try to keep the teams roughly balanced in terms of rank.

I don’t have a solution for people leaving HJ because they don’t like the map they ended up on.

As others have said, otherwise, you create a new “normal” mode unranked – where serious HJoiners can go.

Personally, I think irrespective of the attempts to improve HJ, private servers should have been made non progression, as a general rule. When does progression really matter in a private server? It doesnt really matter in duelling servers, nor skirmish servers, nor practice servers, thats not what theyre designed for. If anyone can give us a reason why we need progression in a custom server, one that outways the negatives of it being used as a farming route, then so be it, but for me, that’s simply not what they’re intended for.

Despite being someone who plays a fair bit of soloq, and spends time waiting for them in hotjoins, I’m not overly bothered by this change. I think the rewards for HJ and Soloq/Teamq are completely disproportionate to the skill level required, but thats a separate issue. Frankly, as it is, I’ve already reached rank 40, and my next set of gear won’t be coming for a long time anyway, so I’m hoping a new reward system comes out.

There are two issues here, glory farming, which would be limited majorly by blocking progression in private servers, and beginners going into team queue. I think this side of things could be tackled in other ways. While I accept that you dont want to put a minimum rank on solo queues, I would much rather see a very low rank requirement, that also came with a message/tutorial regarding solo queue and team queue. Perhaps rank 5 being required for solo queue and rank 10 being required for team queue.

On one hand, I see what Allie is trying to say, they want to grow the player base, but the change in how glory was earned was not delivered to the community as a tool to grow player base, we were told it was to fix exploiting. The fix is very much like the days of a rowdy classroom where the teacher would say “If any else acts up, you all lose recess.” Someone will almost always act up and the class grows frustrated with that person but, also with the teacher for punishing everyone for someone else’s mistake. The thing that makes the class happy again is getting to back to recess the next day. This community is waiting to go back to our “recess” of progression.

You state you are looking for a non-bias opinion but most all of your responses point to a very clear bias towards the hot join. It’s clear that is the tool you think is going to grow the player community; even when the existing community is trying to steer you towards giving more attention to other problems that should be addressed first that we feel would make the community grow:

1. People who join hot join while waiting for solo queues can not help the queues can take in excess of 15 minutes at times. Players have no way to gauge how long we will have wait, so we join hot joins. You don’t want us to leave, atleast give us a better UI to understand at what step of the matchmaking we are sitting. If I think I am going into a match soon, I wouldn’t join into a hot join nearly as much and I am one less player leaving in the middle of the match.

2. PVP Levels are a GRINDFEST. I am coming up on a year of playing GW2. Never have “farmed glory”, just play the game. While the first few months I did very little PVP, I have done it almost daily for the last 6 months or so. I am only level 32… Either alter the exp caps for levels or give me another way to earn level. Maybe random drops of exp similar to what WvW has now. Atleast if I get one while I play a hot join and have to leave cause the queue popped I still have a chance of gaining something towards my progression.

3. Possibly add PVP experience and Glory bonuses for completing PVP achievemnts such as the ones that say “Win X amount of matches” or “Play X amount of matches as this class” etc.

Just some ideas. You want to grow new players, then take the approach that this game has seemed to take since day one. Give new players new toys at a quicker basis, give them something more than achievement points and titles that take a long time to get legitimately. New players typically want instant gratification. Get the hook in their mouths at least. Just don’t keep telling your existing player base that “hot joins” are what will bring the new players into the community cause it is a little patronizing; not saying you mean to be but it is.

I know it probably doesn’t belong to this thread, but since there was the question for suggestions:
What about something like Random Arenas in GW1? As far as I remember, it was the most-played PvP-format GW1 had, and it was probably the most ‘newcomer-friendly’ format since there was always the chance that the enemy team had a newbie too or a disadvantage due to unlucky combination of classes etc.
It doesn’t have to be deathmatch as in GW1, it can be the same as soloQ, with the difference that after a win, one can either leave safely (in case one doesn’t want to play anymore) or can play ahead with the same team.
Difference to soloQ: No MMR/Leaderboards, but points for a title for a win (and more points for consecutive wins).

Advantages in my oppinion:

• Easy to understand for newcomers
• Competition: Playing “good” is rewarded with better chances for win (HJ now: spam AoE for tagging as much players as possible while zerging to get as much glory as you can)
• In opposite to soloQ, a defeat (maybe even due to DC/4v5 etc.) isn’t that bad since there’s no MMR

Disadvantage:

• Same as in GW1… there were horrible PvP’ers (I am and was horrible too from some point of view probably, but most people here from GW1 will know what I mean) which had really high ranks, but this is probably a smaller issue than the gloryfarm-problem in GW2 right now
• If one has only 5min or something like that, it’s not really possible to play this format (in opposite to HJ) if one doesn’t want to risk to let the team down after the first half of the match
• Ragequitters, AFK’ers. soloQ and GW1-RA have this problem too, a hard ‘Dishonored’-punishment is the key to victory here I think. Valve for example solves this problem in Dota2 pretty good in my oppinion; “dishonored” players can still play, but they don’t get any reward anymore (and are in a different matchmaking-pool) for 24 hours.

This doesn’t solve the HJ-farming-problem of course, but it may be some kind of solution to have something that is not as “competitive” as a rated match with an MMR behind where every defeat counts, but has still some kind of motivation to play competitive/trying to win instead of playing mindlessly as it’s the standard right now in HotJoin.

I was just playing and noticed that I was getting PVP exp as I earned points in a hot join. I take it the exp gain has been turned back on to instant rather than end of round?

Never mind, must have been a bug. Not gaining anymore. I almost was happy again.

The biggest issue with hotjoin, in my opinion, is the fact that it’s intended to be a place where new players can ease themselves into PvP, but it’s the complete opposite of what GW2 PvP is supposed to be about. Hotjoin is nothing but zerging from point to point without an ounce of strategy or competitiveness involved.

If you want to deal with the issues that hotjoin has, then these two things must happen:

1. Reduce the player cap to 10 on every single official server (custom arenas will obviously have the high cap). No more 8v8 zerg fests, 5v5’s only.
2. Introduce a proper tutorial for new players that you’re required to complete at least once on an account (not character, that would be terrible if you’ve already completed it) before you’re allowed to join hotjoin. At the moment, the “tutorial” that you’re given at the start is complete rubbish and you learn practically nothing of how the conquest game mode actually works.
3. Update the default builds every time the meta has a big change in direction, adding a short explanation of them if possible. This gives new players a solid build to start off with and encourages players to understand that their build is important. I’d also like to note that the current default builds are absolute rubbish, seriously.

If you want to ease new players into PvP, then actually teach them how to play PvP!

I gotta say i very much agree with their choice here.
Personally i think it isn’t far enough.
I think if people level a match they’ve started they should get the dishonor Debuff.
Or at least shouldn’t be able to enter ANY pvp matches for at least 30 minutes

The number 1 killer of good pvp matches are Leavers. No matter what this has a negative effect on the match. The team that was losing is now outnumbered at every fight. Causing more people to leave. Making a match where one side has 100+ extra over everyone on the other team.

The idea worked for wow and almost every other mmo (and a lot of multiplayer games) that if you left a game in progress you are penalized.
This not only stops that person from leaving games in the future. But it weeds out leavers for a short time. and promotes people staying in the game till the end. Giving games more of a chance to actually turn the tides and be close.

and the while waiting for tourney que – that is what heart of the mist should be for. It shouldn’t be so gosh darn boring. Add in a little Free for All dueling arena. Or a PvP JP with a chest at the end. Any thing so its not just Heart of the Waiting room.

I wonder how many people in this thread played GW1 PvP and raged about how they couldn’t leave RA/TA/FA/JQ early and get all their points.

The only possible solution is to have some small amount of rank/glory awarded for mid-match achievements, with a larger bulk awarded for actually winning your match.

It is inherently destructive to building a healthy PvP base when your simplest format doesn’t encourage proper play.

Imo the solution lies in splitting up existing game types and introducing a new currency.

Hotjoin was easily abused by gloryfarmers while newish players found themselves in matches where leavers hopped in and out for the sake of their pvp title. By that, those new players never learned the basics of tpvp.
The Devs recognized that problem and rightly found a solution.
But the issue with that is, that those people, who werent abusing the system, but waiting for arenaqueue to pop, were greatly punished, as their low overall-incoming (glory/rank) has been nerfed even more by that.

So my solution would be, to split up hotjoin in two several gametypes.
1. The “old” hotjoin. You can come and go whenever you want. Glory gain (at any time) is reduced to let’s say about 60% of its normal amount. By that you can still try out new builds and still get a small amount of glory while waiting for arena to pop. But abusing this system isn’t worthwhile anymore.
2. The new “normal” game type. It works almost the same as battlegrounds in WoW (ouch). You queue up for them and get 120% of the glory, but at the end of the match. And if you win, you’ll get the (glory-)win-bonus, which now you just get at the end of tournament matches (150 if I’m correct).
If you leave before one game is finished, you get a leaver penalty, which prevents you from joining any pvp-activity (except WvW) for 15 minutes.

That said you might wonder, why you should play Arena then, as Leaderboards still have no use and tournaments give even smaller amount of glory as “normals”.
This is why I would love to see a new curreny in future patches, given only to people competing in Arena Matches! This currency could work like badges. Losing an Arena Game gives you 1 badge (“[…] of Balthasar”? ;D), while winning rewards you with 3 badges. Doing the daily gives you 1 badge, the monthly rewards you with 10 of those. These badges can be used to obtain special rewards, similar to Laurels in PvE.

Those rewards might be:
1 laurel = 20 badges (so any laurel item might aswell be bought by badges but 20 times as expensive. e.g. “Unidentified Dye (10)“ costs 5*20=100 badges. So playing pvp actually might bring you some income.)
10 badges = 1000 glory
1 badge = 3 Rabbit tokens
5 badges = 3 Deer tokens
10 badges = 3 Dolyak tokens
15 badges = 3 Wolf tokens
25 badges = 3 Tiger tokens
35 badges = 3 Bear tokens
50 badges = 3 shark tokens
65 badges = 3 phoenix tokens
100 badges = 3 dragon tokens
50 badges = exclusive armor piece (skin)

Oh well and sorry for my kittenty english. Hopefully everything can be understood :P

Edit: To prevent farmteams in Arena, I changed the amout of glory you’d get in normals. It’s now 120%. I fear, that some people would play Arena without really caring wether they win or not, as there would be more to get than in normals (before: 100% glory in both game types).

Anyone suggesting to remove hotjoin must be oblivious to the majority of players around them. Most of us enjoy playing hotjoin when we want to play without a queue or without the stress of affecting our rank. New players learn the basics of sPvP in hotjoin, and players who make their own builds (yes, they exist) test them out in sPvP. Hotjoin is a great form of casual PvP, and if you don’t like it, don’t play it.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Kaon.7192:

Common legitimate use cases that this change negatively affects include:

-Playing in Hot Join while waiting for solo/team queue now rewards essentially no glory because it’s unlikely that you’ll be able to finish a match before queue ends. Even if you do finish your first match, the early half of your next match would likely reward nothing.

-Players with flaky connections dc’ing before end of match will not be rewarded glory for anything they accomplished before that point, even if they connect back before match ends.

But more importantly, this change doesn’t put nearly enough of a dent in those disgusting glory farm servers that can still gain glory at many times the rate of regular play.

Ban the server owners and anyone who has spent more than a dozen hours in those servers since their introductions (I’m being generous with the definition of willful exploitation here).

This is an exploit that completely destroyed whatever pitiful value Glory, the only currency sPvP players had access to, had remaining. Please deal with it with at least a fraction of the gravitas that you have demonstrated for exploits that devalue gold and undermine the PvE economy.

Frankly this double standard you have shown so far on this issue speaks volumes on how seriously you guys really take sPvP as a game mode.

Sorry, what double standard? Could you explain what you mean by that?

We realize that the change is only a band-aid for any exploiting that’s happening, which is why we are looking into other options for that specifically (I literally can’t give any more details than that, as we see the number of players participating in this increase when we do share more).

What if this change was thought of not as an exploit fix, and more of a change to hot joins to improve them? How would you feel about it in that case?

In that case I would like to ask WHY there has not yet been a proper exploit fix.
Why exactly should the number of players exploiting factor into the priority of an exploit fix?

What most of the sPvP player base are up in arms about is the fact that the players who HAVE exploited this (even if they’re as few in number as you would like to claim) have made a complete joke out of the glory and rank system, and completely undermined all the time we have put into sPvP to reach the ranks we’re on.

These players remain completely unpunished, and it’s not unreasonable to infer from your lack of an official stance that they’ll remain unpunished. The existence of these players mean that rank now means absolutely nothing, whereas before it was at least a vague indicator of the amount of time someone has spent playing sPvP.

Would you have handled this exploit in the same manner if this was a PvE exploit that allowed players to devalue gold to the degree that this exploit did to Glory? All the widespread PvE gold exploits so far have resulted in bans for at least the worst offenders almost immediately after it came to your attention. Is it too much to ask that you do the same for this sPvP exploit?

You don’t see the double standard here? Really?

Allie Murdock.8152:

Kaon.7192:

It depends on what aspect of sPvP you’re trying to grow.

Growing the Hot Join Only playerbase isn’t exactly healthy for the game. Hot Join should not be the mode that is the most rewarding when considering an equal time investment. This is counter-intuitive to its intended role as a mode to ease players into the officially supported gamemode of 5v5 Conquest.

My suggestion is to change their official names to Practice Arenas to reflect their actual usage in the sPvP realm. They should be something that people can use to jump in, test their builds, jump out, and get rewarded for whatever they accomplish in that time, as was the case in the previous reward model.

Solo Queue and Team Queue, however, need to have their reward models revamped to completely overshadow whatever you can achieve in the same amount of time in Practice Arenas. Because this is the gameplay that the classes, skills and builds are balanced around, and until a new player has experienced these modes, you can’t honestly claim they have contributed anything positive to the health of sPvP.

Growing hot join is bad, why? Because of the way the format is? What if changes were made to the format to alter your opinions of it? Or are you saying that there is no possible way that hot join could ever be good for the game?

If hot join is a mode to ease players into PvP, why is it a bad thing that we are discouraging people from leaving the game in the middle?

There are definitely ways of improving the Hot Join format. Maxing out at 5 players on each team for all the official servers would be one obvious way, improving the win bonus and devaluing mindless tagging would be another. I don’t doubt that with enough such improvements, hot join would make a good format for new players to actually learn real sPvP, and only then would growing the hot join player base be good for the game. You can try to grow the current hot join format as much as you like, but I’m not particularly optimistic about the retention rates of the current hotjoin player base when you start to make changes that force them to play differently from what they’re accustomed to from playing hot join in its current state.

Regarding the match end reward change: There is a middle ground between discouraging leaving, and making hot join a complete waste of time unless you’re present at the end of match. I think this can be accomplished by simply greatly improving match end bonuses rather than by removing all progression during matches as you have done. Especially when some of your most dedicated players use hotjoin as a way to squeeze in a bit of extra progression in between ranked games. The last thing you should be doing right now is making progression even slower for them…

^^^ – What he said. +1

Regarding the match end reward change: There is a middle ground between discouraging leaving, and making hot join a complete waste of time unless you’re present at the end of match. I think this can be accomplished by simply greatly improving match end bonuses rather than by removing all progression during matches as you have done. Especially when some of your most dedicated players use hotjoin as a way to squeeze in a bit of extra progression in between ranked games. The last thing you should be doing right now is making progression even slower for them…

Q1: Why is “hotjoin” called “hotjoin”?
Q2: What is the difference between “hotjoin” and “soloq”?

ty

First of all, you do not take a job with a title ‘’PvP community coordinator’‘or any other job with a ’’pvp’’ title if you do not play pvp yourself to know by self experience what to improve and not. With that said, let get on to it.

1> Hotjoin is called hotjoin because it is meant to be accessed as you wish, and leave with no punishment. We were punished from BWE with the lack of ranking points gained from a node, finish or end game score… With that said, hotjoin should be a place to enter fast and leave as you please, otherwise you can scrap that name and name it something else.

2> You are seriously out of your mind if you think that rank points awarded in the end of the match is to prevent players from leaving. In fact, I am rank 51 now and I find myself leaving game more often now because my teammates cannot play and I do not feel like getting my character tossed around for 10 minutes with no points to strive for. The motivation for staying to the end is close to none at those moments. And for that you want to give me a punishment?

3> Skyhammer farm exploiters… Yeah. Just seeing the map pop up gives me the creeps. Those exploiters took away the prestige and time I have spent to get to 51 (a year) with legit gameplay both in tpvp and spvp which they accomplished in 2 weeks skyhammer farm. And the worst part, they are still farming and having a happy time doing it with no consequences. If I see another server called ""SKYHAMMER GLORY FARM – ADMIN ONLINE"" by next week, I am trashing my characters and sending you the receipt to cover the expense for 2 GW2 games. (1 for me and 1 for my wife)

4> Changes? The only changes that should occur at this very mement (immediately preferred) is to permanently ban skyhammer exploiters, or at least re-roll their ranks and restore the prestige and time spent to get to our ranks. After that, restore glory rank progression to hotjoin to be awarded during the game, not at the end of it. People queing for tpvp or wvw are doing hotjoin to earn glory (or at least used to) while doing so. Such a stupid thing to remove and just give legit players more things to be frustrated about.

That is what I had on top of my head. Keep the complaints coming. Anet need a head shake for their mistakes. I am soon at the peak of my frustration limit and I soon cannot take much more mistakes from the pvp team.

Allie Murdock.8152:

From what I understand, people are upset that they can’t come and go from hot join and still be rewarded before the match ends. If hot join is the place where new players are learning PvP, is it healthy for people to be coming and going as they please? Is it good to promote that habit?

I’m sry if someone allready mentioned this but i had to stop reading after this comment and just wanted to let you know that you dont learn a kittening kitten about PvP in hotjoin.

If u want hj to be the place for ppl to learn pvp.

-Make it 5v5
-Punish multiple ppl capping points (no reward if more then 1 standing there capping or something like that)
-Reward the winning team with way more points or half the points of the losing team

Surreal.5243:

Allie Murdock.8152:

From what I understand, people are upset that they can’t come and go from hot join and still be rewarded before the match ends. If hot join is the place where new players are learning PvP, is it healthy for people to be coming and going as they please? Is it good to promote that habit?

I’m sry if someone allready mentioned this but i had to stop reading after this comment and just wanted to let you know that you dont learn a kittening kitten about PvP in hotjoin.

If u want hj to be the place for ppl to learn pvp.

-Make it 5v5
-Punish multiple ppl capping points (no reward if more then 1 standing there capping or something like that)
-Reward the winning team with way more points or half the points of the losing team

I seriously doubt the majority of players learned to play pvp through tournaments right away. I have used hot join from day 1 as main ranking-up mode and from there received heavy knowledge about what meta people are playing, what to avoid, etc. But i can agree to a certain extent that hot join is not really noob friendly but it sure as hell is a fast way to learn. ’’Sometimes you gotta run before you can walk. "

I’ve been playing HJ since the change. I predicted the point awards would have no impact on leaving, and, based upon my experience, it has not. People still leave just as before.

The only real impact is that people who play sPvP dont get points when they play hj in between matches.