Guild Wars 2

Disappointed with the balance team on this patch. I was hoping for a nice shake up of the meta that would promote skillful game play. Now it’s going to take some time for the meta to shake out, but I don’t see enough changes to include the weaker classes from last season.

Now I could be wrong, especially at the pro level, but a normal season is going to be more of the same.

I think they were responding to people complaining about how they balance with a giant hammer, so now they tried balancing with a tiny mallet.
This feels like more of a mid-season hotfix than a patch. Can we get something more meaningful? There are so many traits and skills in this game that need love. Us players send so many suggestions too. Some of them are good. Please take more of our suggestions.

The downstate change will likely heavily affect both Scrappers and Druids. The Celestial Avatar change will hurt Druids tremendously. Those two classes taking hits will make Warrior stronger relative to Reaper, since it has more personal survivability, as well as being strong versus the current strongest support, Tempest. I don’t see Mesmer getting pushed out of the competitive scene unless more people start playing Dragonhunter, but Dragonhunter isn’t weak to begin with. The only glaring issue I see is that Thief really did need some slight buffs. It’s strong in solo queue, and is still strong in competitive play, but it’s too much of a risk for such low pay off. Anyway, look to see what the first couple changes I mentioned do to the meta before you complain.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

The downstate change will likely heavily affect both Scrappers and Druids. The Celestial Avatar change will hurt Druids tremendously. Those two classes taking hits will make Warrior stronger relative to Reaper, since it has more personal survivability, as well as being strong versus the current strongest support, Tempest. I don’t see Mesmer getting pushed out of the competitive scene unless more people start playing Dragonhunter, but Dragonhunter isn’t weak to begin with. The only glaring issue I see is that Thief really did need some slight buffs. It’s strong in solo queue, and is still strong in competitive play, but it’s too much of a risk for such low pay off. Anyway, look to see what the first couple changes I mentioned do to the meta before you complain.

Now Warriors and Guardians current builds do not require skill. The fact they left the guardian build in is perhaps the worst part of this entire patch. I don’t care if it’s not in pro league they need to have these builds require skill to succeed. Huge misses here.

Thief needed a significant buff to get included in the meta or significant nerfs to the other classes. Right now you are hurting your team going into season 5 if you play a thief. I fully expect all players to verbally abuse ppl who choose to play thief next season. Thief has historically been a very high skill class that excites spectators on streams….huge miss

My main class, mesmer, remains a must pick in competitive play. I’m really upset they kept the condi shatter build instead of promoting power shatter for more skillful gameplay. Another huge miss on Anet’s part.

Engi….they buffed condi….Miss

Revenant maintains insane damage with survivability. A must pick for ALL competitive teams…Miss

Druid didn’t receive the proper change to have pets have the same stats of player. You want a burst from pet you need to build glass….Miss. Now the other changes will have to play out b/c they actually received a healing buff in this patch when using menders.

Necro ah one of my favorite classes. Buffs to power necro, but overall I don’t see it replacing the current condi builds. I actually support this even if its a lil weak

Ele….tough to call, but Anet generally over buffs ele to the point of brokenly OP. I’m optimistic and hopeful we’ll see a nice emergence of a balanced ele, but they may have gotten too much sustain. We’ll see.

Overall terrible patch.

The only place Thief isn’t very strong is in the very competitive scene that you don’t care about.

Condition Mesmer is a skillful build, despite it not being the Power Shatter that you prefer.

Power Scrapper was too strong. They nerfed the Gyro daze and the rezzes. They buffed condis to try to open up build diversity.

Revenant should have taken more hits. I agree.

You’re missing the biggest nerf to Druid. The increase in CA cd from 10 to 15 seconds is MASSIVE.

Necromancer they did the same thing as Scrapper. They toned down the current meta slightly while buffing alternatives.

I think Elementalist was already strong and will continue to be strong. I see nothing wrong with it here.

Revenant needs slight nerfs. Thief needs slight buffs. Your problems with Warrior and Dragonhunter are L2P issues, and this has been proven time and time again.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

The only place Thief isn’t very strong is in the very competitive scene that you don’t care about.

Condition Mesmer is a skillful build, despite it not being the Power Shatter that you prefer.

Power Scrapper was too strong. They nerfed the Gyro daze and the rezzes. They buffed condis to try to open up build diversity.

Revenant should have taken more hits. I agree.

You’re missing the biggest nerf to Druid. The increase in CA cd from 10 to 15 seconds is MASSIVE.

Necromancer they did the same thing as Scrapper. They toned down the current meta slightly while buffing alternatives.

I think Elementalist was already strong and will continue to be strong. I see nothing wrong with it here.

Revenant needs slight nerfs . Thief needs slight buffs. Your problems with Warrior and Dragonhunter are L2P issues, and this has been proven time and time again.

Revenant needs slight nerfs Lol

I can only say that —→

1- https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-heal-nerf-insane-Too-far-gone/first#post6369005
2- https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-Changes-10-18-16/first#post6368622
3- https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/RevLivesMatter-Q-Q
4- If you play as a single class rev best uninstalls gw2

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

The only place Thief isn’t very strong is in the very competitive scene that you don’t care about.

Actually I said I don’t care if DH was in Pro League meta they needed to remove that build or make it require skill to play. Please read the entire post before trying to rebuttal

Condition Mesmer is a skillful build, despite it not being the Power Shatter that you prefer.

Power Shatter is leaps and bounds more skillful than condi. It’s not even close in terms of how much skill is required.

Power Scrapper was too strong. They nerfed the Gyro daze and the rezzes. They buffed condis to try to open up build diversity.

Condi in this game requires less skill to get results. That’s why I pegged it a miss. I applaud build diversity, but I want skillful gameplay more so

Revenant should have taken more hits. I agree.

They still want to sell HoT boxes so I don’t expect this to happen anytime soon

You’re missing the biggest nerf to Druid. The increase in CA cd from 10 to 15 seconds is MASSIVE.

We’ll see. I was wanting a removal of brain dead burst pet damage on a bunker spec’d player. Druid is one of my least played classes so I have to say we’ll see and take others words for it. The pet was why I said miss

Necromancer they did the same thing as Scrapper. They toned down the current meta slightly while buffing alternatives.

I’d like to see power necro become a thing tbh. It has good potential if Anet can do it right….which they didn’t

I think Elementalist was already strong and will continue to be strong. I see nothing wrong with it here.

They buffed their sustain from what I can see. This generally leads to problems with ele, and we’ll have to see how it pans out. Hopefully it just adds build diversity, but I’m skeptical

Revenant needs slight nerfs. Thief needs slight buffs. Your problems with Warrior and Dragonhunter are L2P issues, and this has been proven time and time again.

Thief needs more than slight buffs. Literally the way to deal with a thief is ignore it at ALL levels of gameplay. (Ranked Seasons players tend to play 2 points instead of the 3 point rotation due to zero Voice Coms) That eliminates the impact a thief brings to the table since thieves can’t 1v1 anyone in the game. I didn’t say I had problems with warriors or DH’s. I said I had problems with effective they are in terms of how easy they are to play. That’s the most tragic part of this patch IMHO. You read these forums or any forums about GW2, and the general consensus is that GW2 requires minimal skill. That’s the reputation that Anet has built here, and this patch was an opportunity to steer the game in a better direction….and they failed.

This patch was like a solid B- if I had to grade it. They started toning down some of the stupid things that make some classes way too rewarding, while buffing a lot of completely useless traits and utilities for many classes.

I also agree that rev still needs some nerfs (mainly to get rid of some of the stupid mechanics of staff 5 and sword 2, while buffing other things to add some dps with more counterplay elsewhere).

Thieves should get a buff, but they really do need to tone down the ports a bit (also for rev). You can see they tried to do this with the new map, by giving some more obvious places you can’t port to, but it really does hurt any gameplay that relies on positioning to succeed when some classes have an ability that is as brainless as “push button, crap on face of guy maintaining good positioning in general”

In fact, if they did a decent job toning down some of the access to built-in hard mitigation of other classes, they could open up thief’s role without anything else. Too many classes tank way too well despite wearing dps amulets.

BlackBeard.2873:

This patch was like a solid B- if I had to grade it. They started toning down some of the stupid things that make some classes way too rewarding, while buffing a lot of completely useless traits and utilities for many classes.

I also agree that rev still needs some nerfs (mainly to get rid of some of the stupid mechanics of staff 5 and sword 2, while buffing other things to add some dps with more counterplay elsewhere).

Thieves should get a buff, but they really do need to tone down the ports a bit (also for rev). You can see they tried to do this with the new map, by giving some more obvious places you can’t port to, but it really does hurt any gameplay that relies on positioning to succeed when some classes have an ability that is as brainless as “push button, crap on face of guy maintaining good positioning in general”

In fact, if they did a decent job toning down some of the access to built-in hard mitigation of other classes, they could open up thief’s role without anything else. Too many classes tank way too well despite wearing dps amulets.

This patch is a solid A+

1) They finally stopped listening to the general forum whining, they recognised that listening to player A calling OP everything he loses to, it’s a bad decision…thx god

2) They tried to maintain profession integrity while reducing the faceroll nature of some build..without destroying anything

Revs are fine as they are, every profession must have that “oh kitten” factor to force the opponent in an unfavourable situation, this makes the game interesting and fun to play in my opinion, a game where profession A does C and profession B responds with D…it’s not what I call a MMO

Thief is great as they are as long as you have a regular player on it…and not a lemming, you have a role : decap and +1. You like it..so play thief…you want to 1vs1 Rambo everywhere…don’t play a thief is that simple. With time I’m sure they’ll give thieves a duellist elite spec or something similar.

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill, in PvP not every profession has to be able to 1vs1 things randomly, in WvW thieves are more than able to 1vs1 and win VS anybody….whoever say no to this..one warning…I can post 100+ videos of thieves 1vs1 and win in WvW

About this constant talking of ESL meta….it remains a ruse, a pointless attempt to give credibility to an otherwise a pointless thread

I also feel it was a solid patch. It was not enough to bring back full build diversity.
I personaly would have wanted more of the underused(garbage) traits and utilities to be buffed/reworked but the direction is OK. It´s just that we should get it such patches monthly till we reach a much higher diversity level ….

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

The downstate change will likely heavily affect both Scrappers and Druids. The Celestial Avatar change will hurt Druids tremendously. Those two classes taking hits will make Warrior stronger relative to Reaper, since it has more personal survivability, as well as being strong versus the current strongest support, Tempest. I don’t see Mesmer getting pushed out of the competitive scene unless more people start playing Dragonhunter, but Dragonhunter isn’t weak to begin with. The only glaring issue I see is that Thief really did need some slight buffs. It’s strong in solo queue, and is still strong in competitive play, but it’s too much of a risk for such low pay off. Anyway, look to see what the first couple changes I mentioned do to the meta before you complain.

Isn’t thief going to be a lot better now with the nerf to druid, engie, and retri rev? It has now more cleave potential, an easier +1 to sides and forces revs to play a subpar build. unless meta switches hard to guards/warrs thief is a lot better imo

Supreme.3164:

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill…

LOL, you obviously don’t get outside of PvP much, class balance wise across all 3 game modes this game has always been a joke and this patch is no different.

I agree the balance patch was disappointing just as the one at the end of season 3 was. I feel Anet are too afraid to really make changes cause they’ve gotten too much praise for how “balanced” the game has been the last 2 seasons. I honestly don’t give a kitten how balanced it is if it’s going to remain this boring.

zinkz.7045:

Supreme.3164:

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill…

LOL, you obviously don’t get outside of PvP much, class balance wise across all 3 game modes this game has always been a joke and this patch is no different.

As I have said..thx god anet stopped listening to forum rants…the problem is not class balance for like 90% of the cases…the game can carry you just this much…you need actual practice after that

Supreme.3164:

zinkz.7045:

Supreme.3164:

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill…

LOL, you obviously don’t get outside of PvP much, class balance wise across all 3 game modes this game has always been a joke and this patch is no different.

As I have said..thx god anet stopped listening to forum rants…the problem is not class balance for like 90% of the cases…the game can carry you just this much…you need actual practice after that

Well you are hypocrite. When elementalist got forced into a single build you complained to no ends. Now that primarily Off-meta revenant got nerfed, forcing us all into invocation shiro/glint, you are praising them as great changes….

Hammerguard.9834:

I agree the balance patch was disappointing just as the one at the end of season 3 was. I feel Anet are too afraid to really make changes cause they’ve gotten too much praise for how “balanced” the game has been the last 2 seasons. I honestly don’t give a kitten how balanced it is if it’s going to remain this boring.

Here lies the point. Actually while achieving more balance diversity and thus exitement gets lost …. It´s difficul to have balance with a wide varity of builds, but this varity is what keeps most players for long …

You just think that problem is not class balance because you don’t play necromancer most of the time solo. Everyone that plays necromancer with pugs knows that problem is class balance. How you call it if every other class can survive focus and avoid damage and kite better if not class unbalance?

I don’t get all the huff. For the most, a lot of classes got better by having a lot of cooldowns reduced. necro power got upped, warrior axes got upped. I saw very few ‘negative’ changes in the patch notes. There a few increased cooldowns or reduced numbers, but for the most part, they will decreases cooldowns and increased damage multipliers.

The problem is that nothing changed that solve real issues.

“Ice Bow: Ice Storm damage has been doubled in PvP only.”

looking forward to trying this out again

For forum folks the only good patch is the one that address their “idea of balance” , what it should be, which most times simply means having their class with a powerful duellist build whose main counters are either non-existent or that require massive level of skills to pull it off, like : you have less 1/2s to interrupt them during their easy dmg rotation, where you can hope to land a single blow..you’d still lose though.

Well you are hypocrite. When elementalist got forced into a single build you complained to no ends. Now that primarily Off-meta revenant got nerfed, forcing us all into invocation shiro/glint, you are praising them as great changes….

The ele still will run auramancer, you have then sub-optimal builds which seem good only because they’re used by folks who mained ele for years since launch : like fresh air marauder, lightning rod or some viper/wanderer fire burst

I won’t lie as say I didn’t complain and still do..but with moderation, so far I realised that ele has a specific role in pvp and that’s support, be it heal or support.

It’s not the ready to go duellist profession that many wished and still do…possibly it’ll never be but I’m content with the fact that my sub-optimal builds still manage to grant me some victory when necessary

And the main thing is I don’t expect to beat everything with a single build, I constantly try to design tailored builds for all situations and possible team comps of the enemy, I recognise the strengths and weaknesses of each build and capitalise on them.

I put the biggest effort on my map awareness ability, be at the right place at the right time and I’m always ready to leave unwinnable match up, there is no shame in running away…rather it’s shameful to let your team down because of your own ego .

I never run meta builds, I grow and adapt

One of my sub-optimal build is a marauder air burst that relies on weakness application to stay alive vs power builds and ganks….it works great but I lose ground vs condi build and in that case I have super speed to kite them…I don’t expect to win against everything using a single build

-Revs are still plenty strong : staff 5 -UA -Chaotic release, plenty of kiting potential, blocks etc etc.
Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

-Necros remain a power house and Anet see it…like all other players who play more than a single mode and single build and they have unexplored builds/traits that require different way of thinking that simple :" run mid spam crap " ; like every other profession they have nonperforming traits/utilities but hey ….every meta has something UP in your box, so deal with it!

Supreme.3164:

For forum folks the only good patch is the one that address their “idea of balance” , what it should be, which most times simply means having their class with a powerful duellist build whose main counters are either non-existent or that require massive level of skills to pull it off, like : you have less 1/2s to interrupt them during their easy dmg rotation, where you can hope to land a single blow..you’d still lose though.

Well you are hypocrite. When elementalist got forced into a single build you complained to no ends. Now that primarily Off-meta revenant got nerfed, forcing us all into invocation shiro/glint, you are praising them as great changes….

The ele still will run auramancer, you have then sub-optimal builds which seem good only because they’re used by folks who mained ele for years since launch : like fresh air marauder, lightning rod or some viper/wanderer fire burst

I won’t lie as say I didn’t complain and still do..but with moderation, so far I realised that ele has a specific role in pvp and that’s support, be it heal or support.

It’s not the ready to go duellist profession that many wished and still do…possibly it’ll never be but I’m content with the fact that my sub-optimal builds still manage to grant me some victory when necessary

And the main thing is I don’t expect to beat everything with a single build, I constantly try to design tailored builds for all situations and possible team comps of the enemy, I recognise the strengths and weaknesses of each build and capitalise on them.

I put the biggest effort on my map awareness ability, be at the right place at the right time and I’m always ready to leave unwinnable match up, there is no shame in running away…rather it’s shameful to let your team down because of your own ego .

I never run meta builds, I grow and adapt

One of my sub-optimal build is a marauder air burst that relies on weakness application to stay alive vs power builds and ganks….it works great but I lose ground vs condi build and in that case I have super speed to kite them…I don’t expect to win against everything using a single build

-Revs are still plenty strong : staff 5 -UA -Chaotic release, plenty of kiting potential, blocks etc etc.
Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

-Necros remain a power house and Anet see it…like all other players who play more than a single mode and single build and they have unexplored builds/traits that require different way of thinking that simple :" run mid spam crap " ; like every other profession they have nonperforming traits/utilities but hey ….every meta has something UP in your box, so deal with it!

All fine and all but are you aware that only the ED and Facet of light (not really by much) affect the meta revenant?
Everything else affects the off-meta builds only and that includes mallyx/x and ventari/x both relied on the damage reduction and stability from retribution to have a chance of surviving.

Sorry but i don’t see a power house as a solo player in a class that can be downed in 2sec. I played some MMORPGS but none had that big difference in classes ability to survive that most classes can survive and only one can die in 2-3seconds. others takes a lot of time and pressure with all that blocks,evades,miss,dodges, invulnerability,ports. 1 skill can hit me for 11++ k and thats just 1 player so yeah about 2-3sec and downstate is real. Everyone knows its just not ideal for pvp especially for the pvp with pugs. As dead dps can’t dps. It’s just a boon corrupting bot and that too is only if your team babysitting you. Necro class nothing really more than that as focused necro -> dies + can’t do dps when focused.

Yea, this is easily the worst patch we’ve seen in a long time from a balance perspective.

Instead of shaking up the meta and increasing build diversity, the same meta remains, but it just has less participants. =/

Rolisteel.1375:

Sorry but i don’t see a power house as a solo player in a class that can be downed in 2sec. I played some MMORPGS but none had that big difference in classes ability to survive that most classes can survive and only one can die in 2-3seconds. others takes a lot of time and pressure with all that blocks,evades,miss,dodges, invulnerability. 1 skill can hit me for 11++ k and thats just 1 player so yeah about 2-3sec and downstate is real. Everyone knows its just not ideal for pvp especially for the pvp with pugs. As dead dps can’t dps. It’s just a boon corrupting bot and that too is only if your team babysitting you. Necro class nothing really more than that as focused necro -> dies + can’t do dps when focused.

Necros collapsing in 2s is a vast exaggeration!

If you insist running carrion meta than you’ll get creamed in soloq, change build by slotting wanderer and another set of rune, adapt to the game.
I stay alive in pvp by running pure weakness application machine and necro has more weakness application than ele atm as well as being aoe, the world doesn’t revolve around ESL meta

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

This patch was like a solid B- if I had to grade it. They started toning down some of the stupid things that make some classes way too rewarding, while buffing a lot of completely useless traits and utilities for many classes.

I also agree that rev still needs some nerfs (mainly to get rid of some of the stupid mechanics of staff 5 and sword 2, while buffing other things to add some dps with more counterplay elsewhere).

Thieves should get a buff, but they really do need to tone down the ports a bit (also for rev). You can see they tried to do this with the new map, by giving some more obvious places you can’t port to, but it really does hurt any gameplay that relies on positioning to succeed when some classes have an ability that is as brainless as “push button, crap on face of guy maintaining good positioning in general”

In fact, if they did a decent job toning down some of the access to built-in hard mitigation of other classes, they could open up thief’s role without anything else. Too many classes tank way too well despite wearing dps amulets.

This patch is a solid A+

1) They finally stopped listening to the general forum whining, they recognised that listening to player A calling OP everything he loses to, it’s a bad decision…thx god

2) They tried to maintain profession integrity while reducing the faceroll nature of some build..without destroying anything

Revs are fine as they are, every profession must have that “oh kitten” factor to force the opponent in an unfavourable situation, this makes the game interesting and fun to play in my opinion, a game where profession A does C and profession B responds with D…it’s not what I call a MMO

Thief is great as they are as long as you have a regular player on it…and not a lemming, you have a role : decap and +1. You like it..so play thief…you want to 1vs1 Rambo everywhere…don’t play a thief is that simple. With time I’m sure they’ll give thieves a duellist elite spec or something similar.

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill, in PvP not every profession has to be able to 1vs1 things randomly, in WvW thieves are more than able to 1vs1 and win VS anybody….whoever say no to this..one warning…I can post 100+ videos of thieves 1vs1 and win in WvW

About this constant talking of ESL meta….it remains a ruse, a pointless attempt to give credibility to an otherwise a pointless thread

Well, you say that rev is good, because only should look at the little cleaning condi + know how to fight against this assumes that rev is to cure 1.5k + 1,8k (I assure you it all, because in fights high level you are not going to cure brightness)

But not rev you use …(like a thief and his 5 k or 11k hit is balaced) and it shows they are happy to do it completely useless because they say it’s okay.
I just play with rev and much in pvp (legendary in the last 3 leagues) and tell you that before this patch and was wrong, but now they’ve taken my only kind of a hit all game modes gw2 and my 3000 hours with they go for the good deep toilet as the most likely to leave GW2 if the situation changes very soon. Thanks to ignorant to throw the .rev to oblivion

Supreme.3164:

zinkz.7045:

Supreme.3164:

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill…

LOL, you obviously don’t get outside of PvP much, class balance wise across all 3 game modes this game has always been a joke and this patch is no different.

As I have said..thx god anet stopped listening to forum rants…the problem is not class balance for like 90% of the cases…the game can carry you just this much…you need actual practice after that

So for example you think the WvW large scale for the classes are balanced with each class being reasonably represented in guild raids & zergs, maybe come back when you actually have played the whole game and have a clue what you are talking about.

P.S – For someone who creates numerous threads ranting about what she thinks is overpowered and demonstrating their L2P issues on a regular basis, the hypocrisy is pretty amusing.

Chungo.3169:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

This patch was like a solid B- if I had to grade it. They started toning down some of the stupid things that make some classes way too rewarding, while buffing a lot of completely useless traits and utilities for many classes.

I also agree that rev still needs some nerfs (mainly to get rid of some of the stupid mechanics of staff 5 and sword 2, while buffing other things to add some dps with more counterplay elsewhere).

Thieves should get a buff, but they really do need to tone down the ports a bit (also for rev). You can see they tried to do this with the new map, by giving some more obvious places you can’t port to, but it really does hurt any gameplay that relies on positioning to succeed when some classes have an ability that is as brainless as “push button, crap on face of guy maintaining good positioning in general”

In fact, if they did a decent job toning down some of the access to built-in hard mitigation of other classes, they could open up thief’s role without anything else. Too many classes tank way too well despite wearing dps amulets.

This patch is a solid A+

1) They finally stopped listening to the general forum whining, they recognised that listening to player A calling OP everything he loses to, it’s a bad decision…thx god

2) They tried to maintain profession integrity while reducing the faceroll nature of some build..without destroying anything

Revs are fine as they are, every profession must have that “oh kitten” factor to force the opponent in an unfavourable situation, this makes the game interesting and fun to play in my opinion, a game where profession A does C and profession B responds with D…it’s not what I call a MMO

Thief is great as they are as long as you have a regular player on it…and not a lemming, you have a role : decap and +1. You like it..so play thief…you want to 1vs1 Rambo everywhere…don’t play a thief is that simple. With time I’m sure they’ll give thieves a duellist elite spec or something similar.

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill, in PvP not every profession has to be able to 1vs1 things randomly, in WvW thieves are more than able to 1vs1 and win VS anybody….whoever say no to this..one warning…I can post 100+ videos of thieves 1vs1 and win in WvW

About this constant talking of ESL meta….it remains a ruse, a pointless attempt to give credibility to an otherwise a pointless thread

Well, you say that rev is good, because only should look at the little cleaning condi + know how to fight against this assumes that rev is to cure 1.5k + 1,8k (I assure you it all, because in fights high level you are not going to cure brightness)

But not rev you use …(like a thief and his 5 k or 11k hit is balaced) and it shows they are happy to do it completely useless because they say it’s okay.
I just play with rev and much in pvp (legendary in the last 3 leagues) and tell you that before this patch and was wrong, but now they’ve taken my only kind of a hit all game modes gw2 and my 3000 hours with they go for the good deep toilet as the most likely to leave GW2 if the situation changes very soon. Thanks to ignorant to throw the .rev to oblivion

I’m sorry you can’t complain about 10k hits from thieves, nobody forces you play invocation 24/7, be ready to sacrifice dmg for sustain, we’re talking about soloq where anything goes, this is not ESL where you can afford to go full dmg.

It’s 100x better to have a teammates with low/mediocre dmg but enough sustain to pressure….than a high dmg teammates who die all the times

Unless you have the mobility of thieves, you can’t afford to never change your build, if you see your team lack support, then drop invocation, take retribution and change runes/amulet to increase your own self-sustain.

Revenant is amazing to CC targets and apply great pressure , a perfect skirmisher…but ofc you will have weaknesses like everybody else, grow as a player and deal with it.

Supreme.3164:

Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

Mallyx was great before the patch when stability was available, albeit outclased by power Herald.

Now that stability no longer exists for this class and the Naturalistic Resonance is borked the Demonic Defiance resistence no longer provides you reliable defense against conditions, so runes of leadership should be replaced by Balthazar or something else. Anyway, since no stab, condi Mallyx has no way to prevent being tossed around the map as a ragdoll by classes with good cc skills.

With no sustain (Shiro heal nerf) in the power build and no stability (Unwavering Avoidance botched) in the condi build the days of Herald in top tier PvP are over.

Supreme.3164:

Chungo.3169:

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

This patch was like a solid B- if I had to grade it. They started toning down some of the stupid things that make some classes way too rewarding, while buffing a lot of completely useless traits and utilities for many classes.

I also agree that rev still needs some nerfs (mainly to get rid of some of the stupid mechanics of staff 5 and sword 2, while buffing other things to add some dps with more counterplay elsewhere).

Thieves should get a buff, but they really do need to tone down the ports a bit (also for rev). You can see they tried to do this with the new map, by giving some more obvious places you can’t port to, but it really does hurt any gameplay that relies on positioning to succeed when some classes have an ability that is as brainless as “push button, crap on face of guy maintaining good positioning in general”

In fact, if they did a decent job toning down some of the access to built-in hard mitigation of other classes, they could open up thief’s role without anything else. Too many classes tank way too well despite wearing dps amulets.

This patch is a solid A+

1) They finally stopped listening to the general forum whining, they recognised that listening to player A calling OP everything he loses to, it’s a bad decision…thx god

2) They tried to maintain profession integrity while reducing the faceroll nature of some build..without destroying anything

Revs are fine as they are, every profession must have that “oh kitten” factor to force the opponent in an unfavourable situation, this makes the game interesting and fun to play in my opinion, a game where profession A does C and profession B responds with D…it’s not what I call a MMO

Thief is great as they are as long as you have a regular player on it…and not a lemming, you have a role : decap and +1. You like it..so play thief…you want to 1vs1 Rambo everywhere…don’t play a thief is that simple. With time I’m sure they’ll give thieves a duellist elite spec or something similar.

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill, in PvP not every profession has to be able to 1vs1 things randomly, in WvW thieves are more than able to 1vs1 and win VS anybody….whoever say no to this..one warning…I can post 100+ videos of thieves 1vs1 and win in WvW

About this constant talking of ESL meta….it remains a ruse, a pointless attempt to give credibility to an otherwise a pointless thread

Well, you say that rev is good, because only should look at the little cleaning condi + know how to fight against this assumes that rev is to cure 1.5k + 1,8k (I assure you it all, because in fights high level you are not going to cure brightness)

But not rev you use …(like a thief and his 5 k or 11k hit is balaced) and it shows they are happy to do it completely useless because they say it’s okay.
I just play with rev and much in pvp (legendary in the last 3 leagues) and tell you that before this patch and was wrong, but now they’ve taken my only kind of a hit all game modes gw2 and my 3000 hours with they go for the good deep toilet as the most likely to leave GW2 if the situation changes very soon. Thanks to ignorant to throw the .rev to oblivion

I’m sorry you can’t complain about 10k hits from thieves, nobody forces you play invocation 24/7, be ready to sacrifice dmg for sustain, we’re talking about soloq where anything goes, this is not ESL where you can afford to go full dmg.
lol thief uses dps builds and they got sustain, condi clean and crazy damage!!!!!
It’s 100x better to have a teammates with low/mediocre dmg but enough sustain to pressure….than a high dmg teammates who die all the times

Unless you have the mobility of thieves, you can’t afford to never change your build, if you see your team lack support, then drop invocation, take retribution and change runes/amulet to increase your own self-sustain.

Revenant is amazing to CC targets and apply great pressure , a perfect skirmisher…but ofc you will have weaknesses like everybody else, grow as a player and deal with it.

When you say this is clear he has not played at a high level pvp, if you lower damage without stability is a useless sack of boxing takes 3 sec more to die without hurting or something useful.
I will not argue with you, if your entire team is more support against a team of damage just you and your teammates will be useless and even with more sustained’ll die without any pressure, I assure you can try and then comment, all we know that on paper is different.
He has played against esl players you to say that? I sincerely soloQ agreed on most of rankeds with esl players, I have to answer if I played with Esl players.

Buran.3796:

Supreme.3164:

Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

Mallyx was great before the patch when stability was available, albeit outclased by power Herald.

Now that stability no longer exists for this class and the Naturalistic Resonance is borked the Demonic Defiance resistence no longer provides you reliable defense against conditions, so runes of leadership should be replaced by Balthazar or something else. Anyway, since no stab, condi Mallyx has no way to prevent being tossed around the map as a ragdoll by classes with good cc skills.

With no sustain (Shiro heal nerf) in the power build and no stability (Unwavering Avoidance botched) in the condi build the days of Herald in top tier PvP are over.

Where do you see the nerfs?

Rewarding players for awareness rather than random spam is called balance in my opinion, if you don’t use shiro heal out of rotation without making sure the enemy is not using blocks..you’ll be fine, if you learn to read the enemy animation you get stability on dodge

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Revenant should have taken more hits. I agree.

Revenant needs slight nerfs. Thief needs slight buffs. Your problems with Warrior and Dragonhunter are L2P issues, and this has been proven time and time again.

Power rev should have taken more hits. Condi rev got nerfed into the ground!

-Rev of Boa

Supreme.3164:

BlackBeard.2873:

This patch was like a solid B- if I had to grade it. They started toning down some of the stupid things that make some classes way too rewarding, while buffing a lot of completely useless traits and utilities for many classes.

I also agree that rev still needs some nerfs (mainly to get rid of some of the stupid mechanics of staff 5 and sword 2, while buffing other things to add some dps with more counterplay elsewhere).

Thieves should get a buff, but they really do need to tone down the ports a bit (also for rev). You can see they tried to do this with the new map, by giving some more obvious places you can’t port to, but it really does hurt any gameplay that relies on positioning to succeed when some classes have an ability that is as brainless as “push button, crap on face of guy maintaining good positioning in general”

In fact, if they did a decent job toning down some of the access to built-in hard mitigation of other classes, they could open up thief’s role without anything else. Too many classes tank way too well despite wearing dps amulets.

This patch is a solid A+

1) They finally stopped listening to the general forum whining, they recognised that listening to player A calling OP everything he loses to, it’s a bad decision…thx god

2) They tried to maintain profession integrity while reducing the faceroll nature of some build..without destroying anything

Revs are fine as they are, every profession must have that “oh kitten” factor to force the opponent in an unfavourable situation, this makes the game interesting and fun to play in my opinion, a game where profession A does C and profession B responds with D…it’s not what I call a MMO

Thief is great as they are as long as you have a regular player on it…and not a lemming, you have a role : decap and +1. You like it..so play thief…you want to 1vs1 Rambo everywhere…don’t play a thief is that simple. With time I’m sure they’ll give thieves a duellist elite spec or something similar.

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill, in PvP not every profession has to be able to 1vs1 things randomly, in WvW thieves are more than able to 1vs1 and win VS anybody….whoever say no to this..one warning…I can post 100+ videos of thieves 1vs1 and win in WvW

About this constant talking of ESL meta….it remains a ruse, a pointless attempt to give credibility to an otherwise a pointless thread

As can you say this, if you do not play pvp, besides not play at a high level you can not compare without knowing how to play pvp, not even like, as can you be writing on topics pvp? This is surreal.

 I quote one of his messages ->

It’s not like I’m That anylonger much interested in PvP, I play a couple RANKED / unranked matches once in a while

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/DragonHunter-worst-than-Turret-Engi

+2 for you lol

i lol’d too

When you say this is clear he has not played at a high level pvp, if you lower damage without stability is a useless sack of boxing takes 3 sec more to die without hurting or something useful.
I will not argue with you, if your entire team is more support against a team of damage just you and your teammates will be useless and even with more sustained’ll die without any pressure, I assure you can try and then comment, all we know that on paper is different.
He has played against esl players you to say that? I sincerely soloQ agreed on most of rankeds with esl players, I have to answer if I played with Esl players.

Don’t talk about high end pvp when you can’t even measure the right time to use skills by looking at the animation.There is already enough passive crap, if all you can do is spam skills off CD without even looking if the enemy is blocking or not…you deserve to lose!

If you don’t want to skillfully dodge or know when to press skills ….then play a warrior or dragonhunter there you can play gw2 with a single foot rolling on the keyboard while drinking tea on your bed….you just lose any kind of self-respect though

All this talk about high end pvp……if it’d be for me I’d bring back GW1 ruleset where people need to win *consecutively*a set number of games in random mode to fully unlock PvP…then I’d bring back the fame and give zero money/glory to losers and that would bring value to the pvp rank.

From there the GW2 pvp community would finally grow, but for now…all this talk of skill from a casual playerbase……it’s clingy, if this was GW1 type of environment….60% of you would not be here talking about pvp, be glad

P.S Good thing re-posting my thread

Dh is still the turret engi of the new era, as such it remains a noob killer, when all your team get insta downed by a single dh..I blame anet ofc, at the same time anet is not responsible for the lack of skills of players in ranked.

Unless people learn how to dodge…then I don’t see why dh should be nerfed, this doesn’t detract from the fact that dh is a brainless noob killer.

Should we nerf a noob killer to further decrease the effort requirement of GW2?…No I don’t think so ..therefore..what else you’ve got to say about my thread?

I welcome buffs/nerfs as long as they promote skillfull gameplay on all sides..not that one side can chain blocks like a brainless monkey..then look with envy at other brainless monkeys.

Should a chronomancer really talk about skillful gameplay ? Shield 4..move towards the enemy Shield 5-well of gravity-rinse and repeat…blocks are up for like 60-70% of the whole fight, the remaining 40% is stealth/kite…..skillful my kittening kitten

If I want to start talking about the real skill level of players in GW2…I could write an encyclopedia. the best of you here is 80% build and 20% min common sense, at the very least I don’t have delusions, GW2 is an easy game..not worth talking about skill whatever you play; even ele is easy to grasp and use, every profession in this game requires min effort to learn if you have an IQ above 90, the rest is simple common sense…ezport….

Supreme.3164:

Buran.3796:

Supreme.3164:

Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

Mallyx was great before the patch when stability was available, albeit outclased by power Herald.

Now that stability no longer exists for this class and the Naturalistic Resonance is borked the Demonic Defiance resistence no longer provides you reliable defense against conditions, so runes of leadership should be replaced by Balthazar or something else. Anyway, since no stab, condi Mallyx has no way to prevent being tossed around the map as a ragdoll by classes with good cc skills.

With no sustain (Shiro heal nerf) in the power build and no stability (Unwavering Avoidance botched) in the condi build the days of Herald in top tier PvP are over.

Where do you see the nerfs?

Rewarding players for awareness rather than random spam is called balance in my opinion, if you don’t use shiro heal out of rotation without making sure the enemy is not using blocks..you’ll be fine, if you learn to read the enemy animation you get stability on dodge

“Awareness” LOL, with mallyx and no stun break you will get 1 shot from a thief in stealth with no counter, skilled gameplay.

Supreme.3164:

Buran.3796:

Supreme.3164:

Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

Mallyx was great before the patch when stability was available, albeit outclased by power Herald.

Now that stability no longer exists for this class and the Naturalistic Resonance is borked the Demonic Defiance resistence no longer provides you reliable defense against conditions, so runes of leadership should be replaced by Balthazar or something else. Anyway, since no stab, condi Mallyx has no way to prevent being tossed around the map as a ragdoll by classes with good cc skills.

With no sustain (Shiro heal nerf) in the power build and no stability (Unwavering Avoidance botched) in the condi build the days of Herald in top tier PvP are over.

Where do you see the nerfs?

Rewarding players for awareness rather than random spam is called balance in my opinion, if you don’t use shiro heal out of rotation without making sure the enemy is not using blocks..you’ll be fine, if you learn to read the enemy animation you get stability on dodge

Point being that VERY few heals are reliant on successfully hitting the enemy. Heals are crucial, I doubt you’d deny that. Other examples would be Skelk Venom, which has a higher initial heal than Enchanted Daggers, or Purification, which when traited (always) also has a lower CD.

Supreme.3164:

When you say this is clear he has not played at a high level pvp, if you lower damage without stability is a useless sack of boxing takes 3 sec more to die without hurting or something useful.
I will not argue with you, if your entire team is more support against a team of damage just you and your teammates will be useless and even with more sustained’ll die without any pressure, I assure you can try and then comment, all we know that on paper is different.
He has played against esl players you to say that? I sincerely soloQ agreed on most of rankeds with esl players, I have to answer if I played with Esl players.

Don’t talk about high end pvp when you can’t even measure the right time to use skills by looking at the animation.There is already enough passive crap, if all you can do is spam skills off CD without even looking if the enemy is blocking or not…you deserve to lose!

If you don’t want to skillfully dodge or know when to press skills ….then play a warrior or dragonhunter there you can play gw2 with a single foot rolling on the keyboard while drinking tea on your bed….you just lose any kind of self-respect though

All this talk about high end pvp……if it’d be for me I’d bring back GW1 ruleset where people need to win *consecutively*a set number of games in random mode to fully unlock PvP…then I’d bring back the fame and give zero money/glory to losers and that would bring value to the pvp rank.

From there the GW2 pvp community would finally grow, but for now…all this talk of skill from a casual playerbase……it’s clingy, if this was GW1 type of environment….60% of you would not be here talking about pvp, be glad

P.S Good thing re-posting my thread

Dh is still the turret engi of the new era, as such it remains a noob killer, when all your team get insta downed by a single dh..I blame anet ofc, at the same time anet is not responsible for the lack of skills of players in ranked.

Unless people learn how to dodge…then I don’t see why dh should be nerfed, this doesn’t detract from the fact that dh is a brainless noob killer.

Should we nerf a noob killer to further decrease the effort requirement of GW2?…No I don’t think so ..therefore..what else you’ve got to say about my thread?

I welcome buffs/nerfs as long as they promote skillfull gameplay on all sides..not that one side can chain blocks like a brainless monkey..then look with envy at other brainless monkeys.

Should a chronomancer really talk about skillful gameplay ? Shield 4..move towards the enemy Shield 5-well of gravity-rinse and repeat…blocks are up for like 60-70% of the whole fight, the remaining 40% is stealth/kite…..skillful my kittening kitten

If I want to start talking about the real skill level of players in GW2…I could write an encyclopedia. the best of you here is 80% build and 20% min common sense, at the very least I don’t have delusions, GW2 is an easy game..not worth talking about skill whatever you play; even ele is easy to grasp and use, every profession in this game requires min effort to learn if you have an IQ above 90, the rest is simple common sense…ezport….

Do not worry, I’ll quote him more.

Imagine far are you ignorant that talk about work and you respond with holiday … according to you have to balance classes for noobs do not complain.

Do not waste my time trying to explain to a stone (you) as something wrong (though for you this well and likes) Being happy in his world pve mashing keys without any ability (as you would like to do) but stop talking nonsense on the forum pvp please XD

good patch but i think devs are goin too slow on the balance. Look t blizard. if they nerf something they make it unplayable. For example look some heartstone cards.

Nice nerfs, but very disappointed for no thief buff. Plz, make tp trap mesmer tp next time.

Chungo.3169:

There is no need to get that salty, you can save yourself some frustration by going PvP and practice power rev…so that you don’t spam shiro heal on blocking targets, the faceroll over my friend…be glad, a chance for you to get better on rev….

If not, warrior and dh are still there

He is wrong but much, I do not use retribution, and I have no problems abate or warriors or guardians, I’ve been playing with rev 3000h, and you come to teach me to play rev? You better go to pvp using rev and sure to come with a different story in the pvp forum. (Aplauso)

Supreme.3164:

zinkz.7045:

Supreme.3164:

This is a MMO and every profession has a role and purpose to fill…

LOL, you obviously don’t get outside of PvP much, class balance wise across all 3 game modes this game has always been a joke and this patch is no different.

As I have said..thx god anet stopped listening to forum rants…the problem is not class balance for like 90% of the cases…the game can carry you just this much…you need actual practice after that

umm no….. some classes obviously have stupidly rewarding and generous builds out there mesmer and dragon hunter, druid before these changes even, hell even druid still because they can always just go menders and beast mastery trait line and keep healing till bristle back and smoke scale eventually kill the their targets because the pets still do stupid damage regardless of how the owner is built.

Condi mesmer shatters are way to generous
Dh sustain and use of blocks with all the damage they do in a2-3 skills are stupid rewarding with little risk.
Warriors adrenal health remaining unchanged.

Then you have those classes with decent skill caps that when played properly are totally under rewarded for out playing foes.
Power Necro
Engi
Elementalist (not running fresh air. )

If anything anet needs to start listening to these forums again. They need players who dont jsut say “Its bad” They need the players who look at things and say “It would be cool if x skill worked in y way instead of z” This is what brings on the better changes in the game period. There idea lf balance this time around is just going to let Druid, DH, Warrior, And Mesmer stay ontop in all 3 game modes awhile continuing to hold Engi, Ele, and Necro a the bottom.

In the middle you have Rev and Thief just kinda mashed in there.

This patch was the worst ive seen sense hot literally the worst. Its almost like there was no effort and they spent the last 5 days making up stuff just to throw up. If this was a minor balance patch before a soon upcoming bigger one i could understand but this patch hardly accomplished much.

This patch accomplished nothing. Really feels like they dont do anything for months and in the last days increase and decrease some stats that can be done within a few days. Just edit skills stats from x to y.

I getting more and more bored of this games pvp. Its so boring to fight everyone plays the easy mode passive defense classes and block, evade,miss, invulnerability all the time + insane amount of cc and immobilize for days. pvp is not fun at all here anymore.

Problem is a lot of classes can do too much of everything. Is np if you attack 1 guy and you see block, evade, miss, invu, but when you attack everyone and always getting the same message its just too much and annoying in every match. Also AoE’s should be restricted to 1-2 classes only so they can feel special. Like only necromancer can do a lot of good AoE’s because he dies fast to focus so it compensate. but in current state other classes with insane passive survivability+burst+aoe out perfomancing the light armor crap casters. Maybe only i think like this but i think i have some understanding of pvp in games.

Rolisteel.1375:

Problem is a lot of classes can do too much of everything.

Yes, some classes have it all and some have a lot of drawbacks or weaknesses.

Some classes have too many drawbacks/weaknesses to fit a “theme”.

They need to normalise this across all professions. Not to say they should have the same drawbacks, but there needs to be a re-alignment of sorts.

Chungo.3169:

He is wrong but much, I do not use retribution, and I have no problems abate or warriors or guardians, I’ve been playing with rev 3000h, and you come to teach me to play rev? You better go to pvp using rev and sure to come with a different story in the pvp forum. (Aplauso)

Whats pro team are you on,again?

Supreme.3164:

Where do you see the nerfs?

Rewarding players for awareness rather than random spam is called balance in my opinion, if you don’t use shiro heal out of rotation without making sure the enemy is not using blocks..you’ll be fine, if you learn to read the enemy animation you get stability on dodge

How do you evade instant attacks as Judge’s Intervention? How do you evade a instant proc which interrupts you, like Mesmer’s Ineptitude, Necro’s Reaper’s Protection or effects casted from some runes under some circumstances?

Stability wasn’t spammed at random anyway: I did use it for things like to finish a player, to revive an ally, before a fight against foes with wide access to cc, etc… Exactly the same as a Guardian uses F3 or Stand Your Ground! or a Warrior uses Balanced Stance, Dolyak Signed or Shattering Blow. Do you see any of them to need to evade an attack to get access to stability? We already had the worst access to condition cleansing and stunbreaks in the game, why also we must NOT HAVE any realiable access to stability?

For sure, playing with no stability, poorly access to cleanses and stunbreakers, not having any stealth mechanic, not having a single reliable ranged weapon, lacking skill flexibility and having to spent energy on top of cooldowns already makes the Herald the most skilled class to play in the game. But I’m talking as an ex-Herald user now; the patch disgraced condi Herald and I’m not interested in playing the power build.

Huskyboy.1053:

Supreme.3164:

Buran.3796:

Supreme.3164:

Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

Mallyx was great before the patch when stability was available, albeit outclased by power Herald.

Now that stability no longer exists for this class and the Naturalistic Resonance is borked the Demonic Defiance resistence no longer provides you reliable defense against conditions, so runes of leadership should be replaced by Balthazar or something else. Anyway, since no stab, condi Mallyx has no way to prevent being tossed around the map as a ragdoll by classes with good cc skills.

With no sustain (Shiro heal nerf) in the power build and no stability (Unwavering Avoidance botched) in the condi build the days of Herald in top tier PvP are over.

Where do you see the nerfs?

Rewarding players for awareness rather than random spam is called balance in my opinion, if you don’t use shiro heal out of rotation without making sure the enemy is not using blocks..you’ll be fine, if you learn to read the enemy animation you get stability on dodge

Point being that VERY few heals are reliant on successfully hitting the enemy. Heals are crucial, I doubt you’d deny that. Other examples would be Skelk Venom, which has a higher initial heal than Enchanted Daggers, or Purification, which when traited (always) also has a lower CD.

Those heals also can be interrupted. A lot of them also don’t do damage. I honestly can’t believe you bring skelk venom as an example. When was last time you have seen a thief using skelk venom in pvp? Also, should i remind you that revs have 2 heals, unlike every single other class, so you can actually rely on second heal unlike necro that gets screwed if his heal got interrupted. Don’t have second heal available? Well, sry, learn to manage spells better.

Also where were you when every single stealth spell from thieves was nerfed (added 1 sec CD) which requires thieves now to know every single hidden CD from all traits from all classes so they can actually land lousy 3k backstabs? You think you have it bad since you waste 1 stack from ED because you mindlessly attacked blocking enemy?

Buran.3796:

Supreme.3164:

Where do you see the nerfs?

Rewarding players for awareness rather than random spam is called balance in my opinion, if you don’t use shiro heal out of rotation without making sure the enemy is not using blocks..you’ll be fine, if you learn to read the enemy animation you get stability on dodge

How do you evade instant attacks as Judge’s Intervention? How do you evade a instant proc which interrupts you, like Mesmer’s Ineptitude, Necro’s Reaper’s Protection or effects casted from some runes under some circumstances?

Stability wasn’t spammed at random anyway: I did use it for things like to finish a player, to revive an ally, before a fight against foes with wide access to cc, etc… Exactly the same as a Guardian uses F3 or Stand Your Ground! or a Warrior uses Balanced Stance, Dolyak Signed or Shattering Blow. Do you see any of them to need to evade an attack to get access to stability? We already had the worst access to condition cleansing and stunbreaks in the game, why also we must NOT HAVE any realiable access to stability?

For sure, playing with no stability, poorly access to cleanses and stunbreakers, not having any stealth mechanic, not having a single reliable ranged weapon, lacking skill flexibility and having to spent energy on top of cooldowns already makes the Herald the most skilled class to play in the game. But I’m talking as an ex-Herald user now; the patch disgraced condi Herald and I’m not interested in playing the power build.

Cringe factor x1000000000. This is what happens when you overtune class beyond comparison and then bring bit back to normality levels – players suddenly don’t know what to do (sup turret engis). Luxury problems. Spoiled.

- those things you listed everyone has to deal with. Welcome to the club.

- no stability? Revs have decent access to stab. You want to know what real no access to stab feels like? Go play thief or core necro, ele says hi.

- revs have access to cleanses, they just choose different spells because, for example, they allow them to kill enemies faster. It is a choice, not lack of it. Also, how dare revs have a weakness.

- revs actually have decent amount of stunbreakers (shiro, legend swap) on top of all other nice things like blocks and evades. I run only shadowstep on thief, i run 0 stunbreaks on necro and doing fine. How many stun breaks do you need really? 100? Dodges, blocks, evades – what happend to those? Passive taunt anyone?

- stealth mechanics on rev lulz. What else would you like? Cookie on golden plate? Stealth should have been always exclusive to thieves and maybe to mes to extend. That is all. Sure, you can have stealth but at costs of having 1 heal, low HP pool, no blocks, no stab, limited access to aoe and high requirements on single target dmg.

- no reliable ranged weapon? Really now? Hammer says hi. You just pick staff and s/x. It is once again a choice. Hammer is actually not even half bad and one of the better ranged sets out there. Look at other classes: engi camps hammer 24/7, thief sits in dagger 24/7 and switches to bow only for mobility and occasional cleave. Once again – luxury problems.

- everyone is lacking skill flexibility. Every class is forced into same set of utilities because rest is not viable. As rev you actually have more variety than most classes.

- booohoo i have 2 energy pools and 2 weapon sets and i find it hard. I could understand your complain if you had 1 energy pool, but you don’t. L2manage resources and CDs like every other class in this game done since launch in one form or another (guess why thieves mostly use AA only, guess why necros have to camp staff).

- Revs most skilled class to play in game …. AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA. Nice joke. Nothing coming from HoT is skilled in this game, period. Go play core builds for reality check.

Let’s not forget how given the opportunity every WTS team would stack revs – the class can’t be all that bad.

Shadowstep.6049:

Huskyboy.1053:

Supreme.3164:

Buran.3796:

Supreme.3164:

Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

Mallyx was great before the patch when stability was available, albeit outclased by power Herald.

Now that stability no longer exists for this class and the Naturalistic Resonance is borked the Demonic Defiance resistence no longer provides you reliable defense against conditions, so runes of leadership should be replaced by Balthazar or something else. Anyway, since no stab, condi Mallyx has no way to prevent being tossed around the map as a ragdoll by classes with good cc skills.

With no sustain (Shiro heal nerf) in the power build and no stability (Unwavering Avoidance botched) in the condi build the days of Herald in top tier PvP are over.

Where do you see the nerfs?

Rewarding players for awareness rather than random spam is called balance in my opinion, if you don’t use shiro heal out of rotation without making sure the enemy is not using blocks..you’ll be fine, if you learn to read the enemy animation you get stability on dodge

Point being that VERY few heals are reliant on successfully hitting the enemy. Heals are crucial, I doubt you’d deny that. Other examples would be Skelk Venom, which has a higher initial heal than Enchanted Daggers, or Purification, which when traited (always) also has a lower CD.

Those heals also can be interrupted. A lot of them also don’t do damage. I honestly can’t believe you bring skelk venom as an example. When was last time you have seen a thief using skelk venom in pvp? Also, should i remind you that revs have 2 heals, unlike every single other class, so you can actually rely on second heal unlike necro that gets screwed if his heal got interrupted. Don’t have second heal available? Well, sry, learn to manage spells better.

Also where were you when every single stealth spell from thieves was nerfed (added 1 sec CD) which requires thieves now to know every single hidden CD from all traits from all classes so they can actually land lousy 3k backstabs? You think you have it bad since you waste 1 stack from ED because you mindlessly attacked blocking enemy?

I think you’re missing my point; it’s not that Skelk Venom is good, it’s that ED is now actually worse than it. SV doesn’t have that arbitrary 1/2s trigger interval, you can spam AA and use up your charges very quickly before your target can react. With ED the smallest time window in which you can use up your charges is 2.5s.

To put that more concisely, you can use SV as part of a burst for quick healing, you can’t with ED. Unless you’re dueling a potato I think the opponent will react after the first second and start blocking/evading/invuln.

I main thief, not rev. Thief is hard but the class rewards skill, if your backstabs are 3k then you’re running a low-precision build. Mine are usually 6k or higher, 10k on a necro or ele. Your complaints about how Thief has been nerfed are a mirror of the Rev users complaining about Retribution: understandable, but overstated. The class is still relevant in the hands of a skilled user, as Sindrener has shown everyone. Although I think everyone agrees that the 1s ICD on stealth attacks came out of nowhere, they could at least replace the stealth attack with your AA if you miss.

Huskyboy.1053:

Shadowstep.6049:

Huskyboy.1053:

Supreme.3164:

Buran.3796:

Supreme.3164:

Losing vs condi? Slot Mallyx! ; No optimal power dps? Do you want defense vs condi or no?

Mallyx was great before the patch when stability was available, albeit outclased by power Herald.

Now that stability no longer exists for this class and the Naturalistic Resonance is borked the Demonic Defiance resistence no longer provides you reliable defense against conditions, so runes of leadership should be replaced by Balthazar or something else. Anyway, since no stab, condi Mallyx has no way to prevent being tossed around the map as a ragdoll by classes with good cc skills.

With no sustain (Shiro heal nerf) in the power build and no stability (Unwavering Avoidance botched) in the condi build the days of Herald in top tier PvP are over.

Where do you see the nerfs?

Rewarding players for awareness rather than random spam is called balance in my opinion, if you don’t use shiro heal out of rotation without making sure the enemy is not using blocks..you’ll be fine, if you learn to read the enemy animation you get stability on dodge

Point being that VERY few heals are reliant on successfully hitting the enemy. Heals are crucial, I doubt you’d deny that. Other examples would be Skelk Venom, which has a higher initial heal than Enchanted Daggers, or Purification, which when traited (always) also has a lower CD.

Those heals also can be interrupted. A lot of them also don’t do damage. I honestly can’t believe you bring skelk venom as an example. When was last time you have seen a thief using skelk venom in pvp? Also, should i remind you that revs have 2 heals, unlike every single other class, so you can actually rely on second heal unlike necro that gets screwed if his heal got interrupted. Don’t have second heal available? Well, sry, learn to manage spells better.

Also where were you when every single stealth spell from thieves was nerfed (added 1 sec CD) which requires thieves now to know every single hidden CD from all traits from all classes so they can actually land lousy 3k backstabs? You think you have it bad since you waste 1 stack from ED because you mindlessly attacked blocking enemy?

I think you’re missing my point; it’s not that Skelk Venom is good, it’s that ED is now actually worse than it. SV doesn’t have that arbitrary 1/2s trigger interval, you can spam AA and use up your charges very quickly before your target can react. With ED the smallest time window in which you can use up your charges is 2.5s.

To put that more concisely, you can use SV as part of a burst for quick healing, you can’t with ED. Unless you’re dueling a potato I think the opponent will react after the first second and start blocking/evading/invuln.

I main thief, not rev. Thief is hard but the class rewards skill, if your backstabs are 3k then you’re running a low-precision build. Mine are usually 6k or higher, 10k on a necro or ele. Your complaints about how Thief has been nerfed are a mirror of the Rev users complaining about Retribution: understandable, but overstated. The class is still relevant in the hands of a skilled user, as Sindrener has shown everyone. Although I think everyone agrees that the 1s ICD on stealth attacks came out of nowhere, they could at least replace the stealth attack with your AA if you miss.

You get more than 3k if people don’t run with protection, passives, have vulnerability stacks and you don’t have weakness on you. Given how much of that crap is flying around, gl landing 6-10k backstabs consistently (1 attack on druid is auto weakness) without afking for 20-30 sec and waiting out all passives/boons etc.

I haven’t said that thief is not relevant. Why put words in my mouth?

My point is, rev players were absolutely fine with 1 CD on stealth attacks – skillful play yo, learn to watch CDs, invisible traits with no tell etc. But when they actually have to use their brains and attention for ED (basically put in same situation) then it is a problem all of sudden.