Guild Wars 2

@mrauls, thanks, got it.

Zelulose.8695:

Salamander.2504:

Zelulose.8695:

Salamander.2504:

Zelulose.8695:

It is worth testing however, I know that the pull is not able to be evaded.

That’s the first I’ve heard of this. Can anyone confirm?

It should also be confirmed that you can’t dodge guardian’s Binding blade pull on great-sword even if that is block-able.

I can confirm that that is dodgeable.

Only for the duration that isn’t interrupted which allows them to chain spear of justice after binding blade. Just tested it again. Edit:The pull is not dodge-able at all. Edit again: None of the pulls are block-able as I just tested it again.

I already complained about getting interrupted by guardian cages and being unable to dodge out of them. But these discoveries are more unsettling considering the effect it has on skill based gameplay even if guardian isn’t overpowered sustain wise. (Spear of justic + binding blade can stop a player for two knockdowns unless they have stab-ability if chained with virtually no other options for counter play.

This brings up the question: Of course, nothing should be undodgable, but does it make sense having 1 skill be dodgeable twice? If you remove the undodgeable effect from the 2nd activation, do you change the skill so you don’t have to activate it twice? I.e., When using binding blades and I hit my target the CC occurs immediately (and there is no 2nd activation ability)?

Zelulose.8695:

The State of DH would be appropriate as that is where the conversation led us. But ultimately, anything you want to express concerning this thread.

DH is in a pitiful state. I can only stay in melee range for about 5 seconds, then the other 4 seconds are spent waiting for weapon swap’s CD to finish, so I can go back to ranging. Now, that may not be true for every situation, but you get the idea.

DH relies on range too much. Give us a trait like Assassin’s Annihilation, and maybe, just maybe, we might be able to do more in melee range. I’ve moved from hating having to kite everyone, to just accepting it.

ToF and LB #2 were/are the highlights of DH. They gave us awesome damage, and added to our ability to kite and be good at it. Sadly DH focuses too much on range. For instance, there’s a trait that gives 13% bonus damage at 600-1200 range (I believe) and 7% extra damage at 0-600 range. Why not make it 13% baseline? Well, because they want us to range!

I do decently in duels against other professions, but I feel like I have to work 2x as hard to achieve the same result as them. I can’t make mistakes or I die. I’ve gotten so good at not making a lot of mistakes that you probably wouldn’t even be able to tell, but when I do, it’s obvious. I wiiiiiiiiiiish I could kite a good Revenant. Holy Jesus Christ. Good Revenants eat me for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. There have been games a Revenant will immediately switch to me and annihilate me, because I don’t have the proper CDs to ward him off.

Core Guardian has a poo load of USELESS traits, minor and major! Like, who came up with some of that trash? It’s irritating to now have a second build to be able to choose for PvP! If you run the wrong thing you’re a dead man.

I could complain about DH’s play style all day, but at the end of the day I love Guardian. I hope AN steps their game up and fixes it. Not simply improve DH, but fix Guardian!

On your second question…

It’s interesting how the discussion changed so rapidly, lol. Lower skilled players will always have a hard time with DH, but where it counts, at high level, DH isn’t a top contender.

displacedTitan.6897:

Its worse than that actually. You can name every single build each of those classes are playing and its the same on every team.

There is ZERO build diversity in pvp right now.

dont worry anet is removing ammulets further widening the build gap…

casual laziness

Well pve changes when pvp changes and likewise. They can’t separate the two otherwise people might as well be playing two different games after enough balance changes mix things up. I would say Fix things in pvp and have a pve option to flip a skill to the pvp or pve form. This way the new and updated version of the skill is available to pve and this game mode will be connected to pvp without losing abilities due to pvp balance. This is lightly different from what was done in Guildwars 1 as the skills in pve and pvp are available in pve. Pvp skills of course are limited to pvp. However, it is a complicated issue that amulets are taking the fall for. I wouldn’t call it laziness after hearing the dev’s response. I would call it an emergency strategy due to a lack of options.

mrauls.6519:

On your second question…

It’s interesting how the discussion changed so rapidly, lol. Lower skilled players will always have a hard time with DH, but where it counts, at high level, DH isn’t a top contender.

I understand this completely. This is why I also am asking for the reduction of mesmer, revenant, elementalist, and druid sustain. Playing each of these classes I realized guardian isn’t weak because of damage, it is weak because of a lack of rotatable defenses, and healing capabilities. The classes I listed have healing, damage mitigation, and stab ability along with stun breaks and passives to boot. While it is true I wan’t to see a reduction in guardian trapping ability I want to see an increase in guardian weapon damage and a decrease in healing for all of these other classes.

Zelulose.8695:

mrauls.6519:

On your second question…

It’s interesting how the discussion changed so rapidly, lol. Lower skilled players will always have a hard time with DH, but where it counts, at high level, DH isn’t a top contender.

I understand this completely. This is why I also am asking for the reduction of mesmer, revenant, elementalist, and druid sustain. Playing each of these classes I realized guardian isn’t weak because of damage, it is weak because of a lack of rotatable defenses, and healing capabilities. The classes I listed have healing, damage mitigation, and stab ability along with stun breaks and passives to boot. While it is true I wan’t to see a reduction in guardian trapping ability I want to see an increase in guardian weapon damage and a decrease in healing for all of these other classes.

Good God why aren’t you a dev…

@Zelulose

I really disagree…DH is not lacking in sustain because it can’t chain together defensive abilities and heals. DH has access to medi heals and can reset virtues with RF, allowing prolonged “defensive chaining” with condi clears. It also has plenty of stability, but is sub-par in the stun-breaking department due to the long CD’s (and casting time) of F3 and JI. DH can chain together defenses with the best of them, and its medi heals are almost unparalleled. DH is weak because it is the only low health-pool class without mobility/disengage (chained defenses only last so long) and has long CD stunbreakers.

Salamander.2504:

@Zelulose

I really disagree…DH is not lacking in sustain because it can’t chain together defensive abilities and heals. DH has access to medi heals and can reset virtues with RF, allowing prolonged “defensive chaining” with condi clears. It also has plenty of stability, but is sub-par in the stun-breaking department due to the long CD’s (and casting time) of F3 and JI. DH can chain together defenses with the best of them, and its medi heals are almost unparalleled. DH is weak because it is the only low health-pool class without mobility/disengage (chained defenses only last so long) and has long CD stunbreakers.

I understand this but meditation heals come at the expense of defense or condition removal or damage most classes can have the best of each world but guardian can’t Meditations (healing and utility) means less blocks and less traps.

Zelulose.8695:

Salamander.2504:

@Zelulose

I really disagree…DH is not lacking in sustain because it can’t chain together defensive abilities and heals. DH has access to medi heals and can reset virtues with RF, allowing prolonged “defensive chaining” with condi clears. It also has plenty of stability, but is sub-par in the stun-breaking department due to the long CD’s (and casting time) of F3 and JI. DH can chain together defenses with the best of them, and its medi heals are almost unparalleled. DH is weak because it is the only low health-pool class without mobility/disengage (chained defenses only last so long) and has long CD stunbreakers.

I understand this but meditation heals come at the expense of defense or condition removal or damage most classes can have the best of each world but guardian can’t Meditations (healing and utility) means less blocks and less traps.

1) DH doesn’t really have a problem with condi’s due to traited F2, SC on heal and SC on utility bar. Anyways, condi’s are about to become a whole lot less of a problem now that mercenary amulet is removed.

2) Meditations are extremely powerful because they are both offensive and defensive. JI is a stunbreak, teleport, fury, 2k heal, and some burn damage to boot. SC crits for 3k aoe and also provides 2k heal, fury, and condi clear. So going meditations doesn’t actually make the guardian give up defense, offense, or blocks (there is no utility block). The only question is how the guardians use them: busting JI and SC for your opening burst leaves you down 4k health, a condi clear and a stunbreaker, but that’s just part of the risk—the definition of a well designed skill that can be used offensively (start of the fight), defensively (kiting under focus), or both (almost anytime).

3) Saying that medi’s don’t provide the DH excellent healing capabilities because they use up a utility spot (that can be used for other things) is not a good argument—ranger’s, necro’s, thieves, etc. would kill to have the ability to heal in the utility spot.

4) I’m not sure “most classes can have the best of each world”…that might apply to Rev? Anyways, why would anyone want to take more traps? TOF and heal trap are all you need. The other traps are pug-stompers only and aren’t worth considering here.

Salamander.2504:

Zelulose.8695:

Salamander.2504:

@Zelulose

I really disagree…DH is not lacking in sustain because it can’t chain together defensive abilities and heals. DH has access to medi heals and can reset virtues with RF, allowing prolonged “defensive chaining” with condi clears. It also has plenty of stability, but is sub-par in the stun-breaking department due to the long CD’s (and casting time) of F3 and JI. DH can chain together defenses with the best of them, and its medi heals are almost unparalleled. DH is weak because it is the only low health-pool class without mobility/disengage (chained defenses only last so long) and has long CD stunbreakers.

I understand this but meditation heals come at the expense of defense or condition removal or damage most classes can have the best of each world but guardian can’t Meditations (healing and utility) means less blocks and less traps.

1) DH doesn’t really have a problem with condi’s due to traited F2, SC on heal and SC on utility bar. Anyways, condi’s are about to become a whole lot less of a problem now that mercenary amulet is removed.

2) Meditations are extremely powerful because they are both offensive and defensive. JI is a stunbreak, teleport, fury, 2k heal, and some burn damage to boot. SC crits for 3k aoe and also provides 2k heal, fury, and condi clear. So going meditations doesn’t actually make the guardian give up defense, offense, or blocks (there is no utility block). The only question is how the guardians use them: busting JI and SC for your opening burst leaves you down 4k health, a condi clear and a stunbreaker, but that’s just part of the risk—the definition of a well designed skill that can be used offensively (start of the fight), defensively (kiting under focus), or both (almost anytime).

3) I’m not sure “most classes can have the best of each world”…that might apply to Rev? Anyways, why would anyone want to take more traps? TOF and heal trap are all you need.

If that is your opinion then fine I was only suggesting something to make dragon hunter more mechanical skill based and less gimpy while solidifying its position in the upper level play. If these changes are deemed unnecessary I would simply look to new changes but the damage will have to go eventually. Guardian will be seeing an even greater damage spike as they face less opponents with the toughness from mercenaries amulet.

Furthermore, as a ranger main for a year and a mesmer main for a good while now trying to learn guardian and thief currently. I will tell you mesmer and thief and ranger will be unaffected by the loss of the mercenaries amulet. There are so many other condition amulets more effective than the merc amulet. If anyone removal of the Merc amulet will hit burn guardian and revenant hybrids the hardest.

Guardian could use some weapon buffs to make builds without traps more viable the nerf to true shot was a bad move.

No class should be able to do this much damage to this many targets even if it is predictable.

Zelulose.8695:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsMqRxL5o4I

No class should be able to do this much damage to this many targets even if it is predictable.

What are you trying to demonstrate here? A staff elementalist can do that, lol. Doesn’t mean it will work in a real PvP situation :P

I’m just showing evidence. The flip side is guardian weapons don’t do enough damage while traps do too much. They need to fix guardian completely.

Zelulose.8695:

I’m just showing evidence. The flip side is guardian weapons don’t do enough damage while traps do too much. They need to fix guardian completely.

Sorry, haven’t been keeping up with things. Evidence of what?

mrauls.6519:

Zelulose.8695:

I’m just showing evidence. The flip side is guardian weapons don’t do enough damage while traps do too much. They need to fix guardian completely.

Sorry, haven’t been keeping up with things. Evidence of what?

That guardian traps deal too much damage.

You need a better example then. That’s not a good depiction of it for PvP.

I mean, man, you can look at one of my videos and see I’m never able to do what you did, lol. It just won’t fly

I’ve played Guardian close to 4,000 hours. I have 3.3k hours on my main, and over the years I made alt Guardians to play around with in PvP. You can trust me when I say guardian traps are not over the top in a real, hardcore PvP match.

mrauls.6519:

I’ve played Guardian close to 4,000 hours. I have 3.3k hours on my main, and over the years I made alt Guardians to play around with in PvP. You can trust me when I say guardian traps are not over the top in a real, hardcore PvP match.

i main class x and class x spells are OK!

mrauls.6519:

I’ve played Guardian close to 4,000 hours. I have 3.3k hours on my main, and over the years I made alt Guardians to play around with in PvP. You can trust me when I say guardian traps are not over the top in a real, hardcore PvP match.

Define “Real Hardcore Pvp Match”.Every pvp match matters,unranked,ranked doesn’t matter.The trap pull combo zelu showed you does infact happen in Real pvp situations…That you can’t pull it off doesn’t mean others can’t either.