Revenant Hammer 2 needs to GO

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Posted by: Rell.8395

Rell.8395

Revenant Hammer 2 makes any other skill look like a baby’s toy. It crits people for 7k with GIANT kitten AOE and 1200 range with 2!!! 2!!!!! seconds cd and you can even move while casting. It’s kittenin ridiculous. Now that people finally figured out this piece of kitten skill they come in groups spamming this at anyone and you die instantly. It doesn’t help that sometimes the animation and dmg bug out making you unable to judge the dodge timing. Even when you can dodge, it doesn’t help because it has 2!!!! 2!!!! 2!!!!! SECONDS cd. If it had 15 or 20 energy usage maybe it’s balanced but instead it has 5! This is the most broken skill in this game currently.

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

Revenant Hammer 2 makes any other skill look like a baby’s toy. It crits people for 7k with GIANT kitten AOE and 1200 range with 2!!! 2!!!!! seconds cd and you can even move while casting. It’s kittenin ridiculous. Now that people finally figured out this piece of kitten skill they come in groups spamming this at anyone and you die instantly. It doesn’t help that sometimes the animation and dmg bug out making you unable to judge the dodge timing. Even when you can dodge, it doesn’t help because it has 2!!!! 2!!!! 2!!!!! SECONDS cd. If it had 15 or 20 energy usage maybe it’s balanced but instead it has 5! This is the most broken skill in this game currently.

2 things.

1.) At 1200 range you can side step this skill.
With swiftness this is easy.
2.) In melee range, the effectiveness and damage fall off immensely

By the time you side step this skill, you should be in melee range.

You just beat a revenant’s entire weapon choice.

Melee range Coalesence of Ruin will do around 3k
Try playing against good people as a rev, before you complain or at least ask what you are doing wrong.


The world needs more KUNG FURY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

(edited by Solori.6025)

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

Regardless of how easy it is to sidestep, it hits like a cannon and has a 2 sec cooldown (got hit for 10k the other day). Honestly dont care either way as hammer revs arent very common, but would be interested to see what anet does.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: T raw.4658

T raw.4658

In a group fight when a hammer rev stands back and can get a few of these off it’s curtains b/c people will get hit. Also god help if there is a downed player b/c everyone is getting dropped

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Posted by: XxsdgxX.8109

XxsdgxX.8109

Oh look, not another thread 100% about l2p issues. Lets nerf everything that I die to!

Stella Truth Seeker

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

The huge spikes are mostly from Cruel Repercussion. That trait needs to be replaced. Otherwise, Coalescence of Ruin is very manageable.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012

Coalescence of Ruin probably needs to be toned back a bit. I won’t say cut in half. But maybe pretty close. Or atleast have a longer cooldown. Yes in a 1v1 its balanced. But in a team fight this skill is pretty kitten terrifying. And in places like GvG’s or WvW. This skill is the king of the field. It can also bug in some cases so you get hit by two pulses at once. Which is….rather lethal.

Ghost Yak

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Posted by: Aylpse.6280

Aylpse.6280

Not before Sword 3. Please god. Who thought it was a good idea to make a two button oneshot combo?

(Yes I know how to avoid this but you burn both your dodges.)

Taking the higher moral ground since 1993.

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Posted by: kubekrozowy.2951

kubekrozowy.2951

Coalescence of Ruin probably needs to be toned back a bit. I won’t say cut in half. But maybe pretty close. Or atleast have a longer cooldown. Yes in a 1v1 its balanced. But in a team fight this skill is pretty kitten terrifying. And in places like GvG’s or WvW. This skill is the king of the field. It can also bug in some cases so you get hit by two pulses at once. Which is….rather lethal.

If we went down with that way of thinking, we would have to nerf other AOE as well as WvW is full of lethal fields…. I have strong feeling that all these posts are made by persons who have not played rev enough nor was it fully unlocked.
Revs are locked behind energy and while fighting its easy to spend it all especially if you have upkeep or + when spamming mindlessly = RIP. Same goes for sword 3, it is good skill 1v1 but quite weak if there is more of you not to mention that is expensive. Anyways since Revs are gated behind energy their dmg must be OK cause there is not much room for spamming during fight.

I want to believe that Anet will choose wisely as it was so far with Rev nerfs/buffs imo

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Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

Coalescence of Ruin probably needs to be toned back a bit. I won’t say cut in half. But maybe pretty close. Or atleast have a longer cooldown. Yes in a 1v1 its balanced. But in a team fight this skill is pretty kitten terrifying. And in places like GvG’s or WvW. This skill is the king of the field. It can also bug in some cases so you get hit by two pulses at once. Which is….rather lethal.

Thing is, if you want to balance numbers you want to consider all factors possible in an optimal state, and in team fights (since you use this as an example where it is supposedly broken) it is actually less possible to pull off repeated use. Consider a 5v5 where all is 100% organized, where one wants to shut down the most logical targets, such as someone spamming a CoR into a group, not to mention said rev wont have that chance as theyll be moving around alot. No group stands in a narrow path 100%, and to get max damage in CoR one has to stand where the second animation hits. It’s not like ur usual pug where people are standing in packs beating on one guy, not paying attention to stuff around. You cant balance stuff around that, which is what you’re experiencing.

The traditional shiro/herald rev doesnt have the tools to stay in the heat in a +1/group fight. Hammer is also not usable when enemy is in your face, it cuts down the damage by alot as strafing around will interrupt your attacks/make CoR miss.

And you cant use WvW as an example, that place is a Power creep. For WvW just equip a mortar and spam 1 on a 1500 range, it can even og above wall of reflection, and thats just fine. Since you brought up bugs then this CoR skill will also miss/not hit when theres a slight displacement in the path ahead, like a rock.

Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore

(edited by nacario.9417)

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Posted by: Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012

Coalescence of Ruin probably needs to be toned back a bit. I won’t say cut in half. But maybe pretty close. Or atleast have a longer cooldown. Yes in a 1v1 its balanced. But in a team fight this skill is pretty kitten terrifying. And in places like GvG’s or WvW. This skill is the king of the field. It can also bug in some cases so you get hit by two pulses at once. Which is….rather lethal.

If we went down with that way of thinking, we would have to nerf other AOE as well as WvW is full of lethal fields…. I have strong feeling that all these posts are made by persons who have not played rev enough nor was it fully unlocked.
Revs are locked behind energy and while fighting its easy to spend it all especially if you have upkeep or + when spamming mindlessly = RIP. Same goes for sword 3, it is good skill 1v1 but quite weak if there is more of you not to mention that is expensive. Anyways since Revs are gated behind energy their dmg must be OK cause there is not much room for spamming during fight.

I want to believe that Anet will choose wisely as it was so far with Rev nerfs/buffs imo

What you said about energy management doesn’t really apply here. Because along with its minimal cooldown it also has minimal energy cost. Infact I BELIEVE if I remember right that with no upkeep skills active spamming this skill on cooldown will actually have you at a positive energy gain overall. Meaning that this skill is not infact a “cost” to use. Considering that even at point blank range it out damages the auto attack.

Also. 7-9k crits is more than “okay” Especially with the kind of sustain a skilled revenant can pull off even in zerkish gear. To put it in perspective. Thats my ranger fully casting rapid fire with 0 cooldown over and over and over again.

If my ranger was capable of firing rapid fires at such a rate I am 100% certain people would be screaming for nerfs.

Seeing as both weapons fulfill the long range pressure type damage role this isn’t a hollow comparison.

Edit: Im my example of the rapid fire im taking the channel time into perspective to account for the 2 second cooldown on coalescence of ruin.

Ghost Yak

(edited by Shadelang.3012)

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Posted by: Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012

Coalescence of Ruin probably needs to be toned back a bit. I won’t say cut in half. But maybe pretty close. Or atleast have a longer cooldown. Yes in a 1v1 its balanced. But in a team fight this skill is pretty kitten terrifying. And in places like GvG’s or WvW. This skill is the king of the field. It can also bug in some cases so you get hit by two pulses at once. Which is….rather lethal.

Thing is, if you want to balance numbers you want to consider all factors possible in an optimal state, and in team fights (since you use this as an example where it is supposedly broken) it is actually less possible to pull off repeated use. Consider a 5v5 where all is 100% organized, where one wants to shut down the most logical targets, such as someone spamming a CoR into a group, not to mention said rev wont have that chance as theyll be moving around alot. No group stands in a narrow path 100%, and to get max damage in CoR one has to stand where the second animation hits. It’s not like ur usual pug where people are standing in packs beating on one guy, not paying attention to stuff around. You cant balance stuff around that, which is what you’re experiencing.

The traditional shiro/herald rev doesnt have the tools to stay in the heat in a +1/group fight. Hammer is also not usable when enemy is in your face, it cuts down the damage by alot as strafing around will interrupt your attacks/make CoR miss.

And you cant use WvW as an example, that place is a Power creep. For WvW just equip a mortar and spam 1 on a 1500 range, it can even og above wall of reflection, and thats just fine. Since you brought up bugs then this CoR skill will also miss/not hit when theres a slight displacement in the path ahead, like a rock.

Your making it sound like this skill is difficult in general to land. When it really isn’t as long as the opponent for facing is distracted. It has a rather wide cone of effect. And its pulsing nature gives it the potential to hit a target even if they narrowly run out of a previous pulse. It also is unaffected entirely by things such as reflects and projectile destruction. Lets both be completely honest here. This isn’t a difficult skill to use.

The damage potential in 1v1 is fairly balanced as I said. But the higher the number of players involved the more bloated the skill becomes. In a 5v5 you can sweep an entire team fight with it.

Also saying WvW can’t be used as an example is kind of bullkitten. As last i checked it was one of the three core game modes.

I will however make my words on it short as this is the PvP forums after all. HOWEVER unless ANET is willing to split skill balance. Then this will remain an incredibly bloated skill for the WvW and GvG community. Practically replacing entire backlines with just revenants. And still leaving it as an INCREDIBLY powerful aoe skill in PvE. Regardless of what your fighting.

Part of what makes this skill so strong is that its a SPAMMABLE nuke that can bypass all of the natural defenses against ranged combat. Including the entire frontline. Be that in pvp with a guardian popping a reflect wall. Or in wvw where you clip the entire melee as well as the squishies behind them.

As for not balancing it on perfect scenarios. I have seen it brought up time and time again in these forums that this game is NOT balanced on 1v1s but on team fights. Changing the tune now only smells of hypocrisy. If were going to change our view on balance every time something we DONT want nerfed shows up. Then simply put any agreement or mutual understanding is impossible. Because the base definitions of the arguments will twist so much that no two people will truly understand what there discussing.

Edit: I would like to say I did not fully grasp what you stated at the begging. I thought you were speaking AGAINST balancing in a team fight. I apologize for that. My only excuse at the moment is exhaustion it has been a long night. However the rest of my points are still valid to my knowledge.

Edit 2: However. I will say that assuming 100% organization involves balnacing the game for less than a percent of the population. I am not sure that is the best move for the health of the game. If it was. Turret engineers would still be a thing. The top players with proper organization had only minor difficulties with it. It was the general population that had the biggest outcry over it.

Ghost Yak

(edited by Shadelang.3012)

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Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

So how come ESL teams arnt filled with hammer rev teams winning by just spamming hammer 2 into the ground? Why cant one use hammer 2 into the ground in higher tier? Because theres a lot more to it than hammer 2, it’s a slow moving attack that can be strafed, no organized team stands ontop of each others for it to land, and hammer is useless in general when focused on/when enemy is close in your face. A hammer rev is usually marauder, and such a shiro herald is not the tank/sustain class people believe it to be once infused light is on cd. Shield #5 is false Security due to unblockable effects, and little to no condi cleanse.

Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore

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Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

double post
/15 revs

Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore

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Posted by: Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012

To address a point both of you made. You both attempted to imply that revenants somehow lack significant defenses. I felt I should address that seperately.

While a glass revenant may lack the natural tankiness of a frontline. It should be compared to those classes that attempt to fulfill a similar role.

On that note the revenant is actually top tier utility wise both in the buff AND the defense departments.

A sword shield/hammer rev has potentially 2 weapon evade skills.
An on weapon block skill that lasts for a significant amount of time and also heals for a large amount.
A weapon skill that heals as well as applying protection. A complete damage transfer heal skill from glint.
A SECOND heal skill from shiro.
A stun break that is also an evade with cleanses movement imparing conditions. Projectile destruction on hammer.
Multiple forms of soft CC. 3 forms of aoe hard CC. INCREDIBLE boon application. Aoe reveal that does not require a target… only proximity.
Access to quickness and superspeed.
A second emergency block on damage taken that heals the revenant and also buys more than enough time to pop the glint heal ability before exiting. Almost guaranteeing a full heal buying time to move to shiro and break free.

If you compare all of that to other similar roles. Youl see that the revenant is actually one of the tankiest forms backline in the game. If not THE tankiest. Especially when played well.

Edit: Not I am not saying that its utility makes it overpowered. When taking in the energy cost and cooldown juggling im inclined to say its fairly well balanced. Im just putting for that this build isn’t really as squishy as other backline setups.

Edit 2: It is true that the POPULAR revenant build lacks condi cleanse. However it is more than capable of breaking CC based condis and using its mobility to escape continued pressure. Though that is up to the skill of the player.

Ghost Yak

(edited by Shadelang.3012)

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Posted by: nacario.9417

nacario.9417

Im not going to write anything more, i could make a random skill list of current strong bruisers as well but to what end? And u keep using the term backline, if ur gripe is in wvw then this is the wrong forum.

Power Ranger PvP
I used to be a power ranger, now not sure anymore

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

I see “frontline” being mentioned. Excuse me, but is it WvW or PvP discussion?

Because comparing PvP to PvE wonderland that includes WvW in terms of stats and overall balance is hillarious idea.

As for the Hammer, the only things that needs fixing is that CoR can hit same player with two cascading impacts at once if the character model is unlucky enough to be in that “sweet spot” which leads to instakills on builds without toughness.
Aside from that behaviour which may need fixing, Hammer is totally fine, has clear counters and figures as L2P issue.
If you run from hammer revenant or try to range him and then come here to complain, I have no sympathy for you.

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144

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Posted by: Sajuuk.5706

Sajuuk.5706

As for the Hammer, the only things that needs fixing is that CoR can hit same player with two cascading impacts at once if the character model is unlucky enough to be in that “sweet spot” which leads to instakills on builds without toughness.
Aside from that behaviour which may need fixing, Hammer is totally fine, has clear counters and figures as L2P issue.
If you run from hammer revenant or try to range him and then come here to complain, I have no sympathy for you.

This is well put. Anyone who hangs out at range and lets a hammer Revenant wail on them gets pretty much exactly what they deserve.

“Maim. Rinse. Repeat.”

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

As for the Hammer, the only things that needs fixing is that CoR can hit same player with two cascading impacts at once if the character model is unlucky enough to be in that “sweet spot” which leads to instakills on builds without toughness.
Aside from that behaviour which may need fixing, Hammer is totally fine, has clear counters and figures as L2P issue.
If you run from hammer revenant or try to range him and then come here to complain, I have no sympathy for you.

This is well put. Anyone who hangs out at range and lets a hammer Revenant wail on them gets pretty much exactly what they deserve.

WHY!?!

This thread was going to the back of the pvp log.
It was dying a well deserved tear filled death and you brought it back to the front..

I hope you get beat up by a quaggan child


The world needs more KUNG FURY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

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Posted by: EdgarMTanaka.7291

EdgarMTanaka.7291

Wahaha it won’t go away!

I don’t get these l2p and it is easy to dodge replies. A skill that hit’s so hard and with low CD, just like DH traps is OP no matter what. The concerns is in a cluttered teamfight.

Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
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