One of the things this patch did was to buff the Reaper GM trait, Deathly Chill, despite the fact that no one believed it needed to be changed:
Reaper—Deathly Chill: Removed the 50% health threshold on this skill so that it now does the same damage at all times. Adjusted the damage ratio. Decreased the base damage from 40 to 10. Increased the level multiplier by 25%. Increased the condition damage multiplier by 87%.
This trait has been overtuned since Nov. 4, allowing Reapers to do consistent and prolonged condi damage (typically ticking between 600-1000) with zero ramp-up time, positioning constraints, or health threshold constraints. It is the archetype of a poorly designed trait that is contributing to the current power “creep” (really more of a landslide).
ANet: Want to take a very easy step in the right direction with balance? Revert the Nov. 4 Deathly Chill buff.
Source: Viper reaper main who uses and abuses Deathly Chill
One of the things this patch did was to buff the Reaper GM trait, Deathly Chill, despite the fact that no one believed it needed to be changed:
Reaper—Deathly Chill: Removed the 50% health threshold on this skill so that it now does the same damage at all times. Adjusted the damage ratio. Decreased the base damage from 40 to 10. Increased the level multiplier by 25%. Increased the condition damage multiplier by 87%.
This trait has been overtuned since Nov. 4, allowing Reapers to do consistent and prolonged condi damage (typically ticking between 600-1000) with zero ramp-up time, positioning constraints, or health threshold constraints. It is the archetype of a poorly designed trait that is contributing to the current power “creep” (really more of a landslide).
ANet: Want to take a very easy step in the right direction with balance? Revert the Nov. 4 Deathly Chill buff.
Source: Viper reaper main who uses and abuses Deathly Chill
Source: Viper reaper main who uses and abuses Deathly Chill and die in 5 seconds on a teamfight?
One of the things this patch did was to buff the Reaper GM trait, Deathly Chill, despite the fact that no one believed it needed to be changed:
Reaper—Deathly Chill: Removed the 50% health threshold on this skill so that it now does the same damage at all times. Adjusted the damage ratio. Decreased the base damage from 40 to 10. Increased the level multiplier by 25%. Increased the condition damage multiplier by 87%.
This trait has been overtuned since Nov. 4, allowing Reapers to do consistent and prolonged condi damage (typically ticking between 600-1000) with zero ramp-up time, positioning constraints, or health threshold constraints. It is the archetype of a poorly designed trait that is contributing to the current power “creep” (really more of a landslide).
ANet: Want to take a very easy step in the right direction with balance? Revert the Nov. 4 Deathly Chill buff.
Source: Viper reaper main who uses and abuses Deathly Chill
Source: Viper reaper main who uses and abuses Deathly Chill and die in 5 seconds on a teamfight?
Won most of my teamfights, with a 60% win-rate this past ranked season. If you die in 5 seconds as a viper reaper that’s an l2p issue. In any case, I don’t see how my team-fight abilities are relevant to the discussion on how Deathly Chill is overtuned.
1200 necro games and 51% winrate is rly impressive for an op class
Over half of my necro games are on base necro. I posted that to show I’m not biased against reaper and have experience playing reaper. The leaderboards are down or I’d show my 60% ranked winrate last season playing reaper. That sounds pretty OP to me.
Its still the same;
Chill dmg is fine, Uptime is not
Making Chill dealing less dmg is not solving the Condispam problem, just reduce uptime and necros have think about it again.
btw 600 games with 60% winrate how bad was ur base nec?
Off topic here but if you are really curious: this screenshot (link below) was taken on Oct. 28th (5 days after HoT but before ranked leagues were implemented). So pre-reaper I had a 51.89% win-rate on my necro and 485 ranked games, with an average ranked win-rate of 55.26%. You can be the judge of how bad my base necro is, but that means I had a 57% win-rate in my 246 ranked games this past league season.
This is all pointless anyways—my own performance is not a measure of how OP the trait is—there are many better necro’s than me who play the game who also use this trait to great effect.
One of the things this patch did was to buff the Reaper GM trait, Deathly Chill, despite the fact that no one believed it needed to be changed:
Reaper—Deathly Chill: Removed the 50% health threshold on this skill so that it now does the same damage at all times. Adjusted the damage ratio. Decreased the base damage from 40 to 10. Increased the level multiplier by 25%. Increased the condition damage multiplier by 87%.
This trait has been overtuned since Nov. 4, allowing Reapers to do consistent and prolonged condi damage (typically ticking between 600-1000) with zero ramp-up time, positioning constraints, or health threshold constraints. It is the archetype of a poorly designed trait that is contributing to the current power “creep” (really more of a landslide).
ANet: Want to take a very easy step in the right direction with balance? Revert the Nov. 4 Deathly Chill buff.
Source: Viper reaper main who uses and abuses Deathly Chill
Viper? Sounds awful
With necro mancers two health bars, low base armor, the ~1k defensive stats from merc amulet are absolutely massive- they scale better on necro than anybody eelse, a must use amulet on this class IMO.
There are 3 reasons Reaper is really strong right now:
Corrupt boon buff (pretty broken)
Merc Amulet + Other class’ celestial being removed (probably biggest reason)
Diamond skin nerfed
The 1 boon strip on 3rd scepter AA is peanuts compared to these three changes
Im okay with some damage nerf if we get focus fire survivability buff. Better damage mitigation and mobility. Focused necro cant do nothing just die. Other classes catch you with their mobility so don’t think about you will survive may fights and run away with 2-3k health against good focus teams. ( we leave it to most of other proffs that can kite so good ) It only work against low/med skilled players. Can’t build up LF so no 50k health with shroud people usually talk about. Thats more like 35k or so with full shroud. If you can’t build up LF enemy only have to focus just 20+k damage which is a joke and still too many necro whine threads.
With necro mancers two health bars, low base armor, the ~1k defensive stats from merc amulet are absolutely massive- they scale better on necro than anybody eelse, a must use amulet on this class IMO.
There are 3 reasons Reaper is really strong right now:
Corrupt boon buff (pretty broken)
Merc Amulet + Other class’ celestial being removed (probably biggest reason)
Diamond skin nerfed
The 1 boon strip on 3rd scepter AA is peanuts compared to these three changes
My post coinciding with the Jan 26 patch is pure coincidence; Deathly Chill being OP has been on my mind since the start of season 1, because it’s been OP since Nov. 4. Not sure why you’re concluding from the above that the scepter AA boonstrip is peanuts as we’re discussing Deathly Chill.
But thanks for the math lesson…And I understand that might and vuln are assumed in the upper-end case, but when I say ramp-up, I’m referring to (for example) stacking a bunch of bleeds over time. If a condi engi wants equivalent dps to chill, it requires stacking 6 bleeds, which usually isn’t as trivial as a one-off hit.
This trait has been overtuned since Nov. 4, allowing Reapers to do consistent and prolonged condi damage (typically ticking between 600-1000) with zero ramp-up time, positioning constraints, or health threshold constraints.
A very slight damage nerf so that we see chill damage ticks of around 425 where it used to be 700 would be ideal imo. I like that a reaper can apply so much chill and for a long time as it’s a primary focus of the specialization.
Imo, they should nerf chill in general to give only a 33% reduction in skill recharge rather than the current 66. If you don’t have very much condi clear, this can be devestating to you.
Also, Necro is just as easy to focus down as ever.
They’re strong but at least they have clear weaknesses. That’s how it should be. A minor damage Nerf at best is all that is called for.
Right. A minor damage nerf is all that it needs. E. g., reverting to the Nov. 4 patch.
Hi ron! Hi Sal!
Ron, Reapers aren’t nearly as easy to to focus down as Necros were a year ago. You know you are in good times when you forget the bad times.
I was a proponent of reverting Chill damage at the very beginning, which got quite a few Necro mains mad at me. I even showed how it does more damage in a < 10 second fight than burst skills do, while also doing more damage than other individual skills/condis that was only similar in efficacy with the previous meta’s Burn damage (which doesn’t have cooldown or cripple like effects) as long as both players are actively playing.
But now I don’t want it reverted. I want it reverted, but with a Necro twist. I want the damage to be increased when the Necro is < 50% instead of the enemy. I think that’s more fun.
Oh god, 600 damage with zero ramp up time, the horror. It is so OP. Surely there doesn’t exist a lot of skills that can simulate the same thing like: traited combustive shot, close range fan of fire, pin down, skull grinder, zealots fire, judges intervention, purging flames, symbol of energy, throw torch, close range spitblade, close range poison volley, … .
On Feb. 25th, Deathly Chill received a 15% nerf to the scaling coefficient, but this nerf is not even noticeable.
If you want to balance condi necro, Deathly Chill needs to be reverted to its pre-Nov. 4 state, and the boon corrupt on the scepter AA (Jan. 26 buff) needs to be reverted.
This is hilarious. Necro main comes to list the problem with own class and get flamed.
I do think necros are bit overtuned atm given that bunkers got pretty much removed from pvp. The thing is we need necros to deal with scrappers. Unless scrappers get actual meaningful nerfs (which is very unlikely given how Anet is biased about this class).
core nec is worse than any of the strong meta builds. reaper without deathly chill is worse than core nec.
`Until the Nov. 4 Deathly Chill buff, most Reapers were actually running power/cele and were in unanimous agreement that Reaper was better or equivalent to core necro (equivalence is the actual goal since elite specs shouldn’t be OP):
How is Reaper without Deathly Chill better than core necro ?
1) Faster RS auto that synergizes well with Dhuumfire and Spite (at the time of release it cleaved and core DS didn’t. This has since changed of course).
2) Reliable RS2 gap closer that synergizes extremely well with Curses.
3) Stability in shroud.
4) Meaningful AOE DPS shroud skills (4 and 5) that are good for both power and condi.
5) Alternative LF management (Chilling Victory and Blighters boon) that synergizes with Spite.
6) Fantastic, low CD shouts that are extremely versatile.
And perhaps the most important point:
No one here is asking to delete Deathly Chill: just to revert it to its Pre-Nov. 4 state, where it did 50% damage to foes above 50% health, but at the time was about 30% more powerful in the base damage. That made it do ~400 damage to foes above 50% health, and 800 damage to foes below 50% health, without any might/vuln.
The problem with that revert is that it gave a very poor PvE experience (yes I’m pulling that card): in group battles it was nigh meaningless due to chill rules and in solo play everything died so fast when you reached that 50% mark (especially since you procced, chill of death and chilling nova) that you were stuck with the very low 400 ticks most of the time.
Also shroud 5 scales well with condi?? It seems strange but chill and condi reaper make very poor buddies. I mean look at the skills, most involve power damage and no condition damage.
The problem with that revert is that it gave a very poor PvE experience (yes I’m pulling that card): in group battles it was nigh meaningless due to chill rules and in solo play everything died so fast when you reached that 50% mark (especially since you procced, chill of death and chilling nova) that you were stuck with the very low 400 ticks most of the time.
Also shroud 5 scales well with condi???? It seems strange but chill and condi reaper make very poor buddies. I mean look at the skills, most involve power damage and no condition damage.
Chill is still useless in PvE environments because it can’t stack in intensity, so I don’t accept that card. :P
And I don’t know how you can conclude that RS doesn’t work well with Condi. Shroud 5 is a pulsing chill field that synergizes well with RS 4 for even more AOE chill. RS 4 is a crapton of poison damage (my condi reaper does 9k poison from RS4), and RS2, when traited with curses can apply chill and corrupt 2 boons. RS1 works with dhuumfire.
And I don’t know how you can conclude that RS doesn’t work well with Condi. Shroud 5 is a pulsing chill field that synergizes well with RS 4 for even more AOE chill. RS 4 is a crapton of poison damage (my condi reaper does 9k poison from RS4), and RS2, when traited with curses can apply chill and corrupt 2 boons. RS1 works with dhuumfire.
First I said interaction between chill and condition damage. Also the only thing you describe is the interaction between the shroud and traits and not good ones for condis at best. For instance RS1 with dhuumfire clock around the same dps as scepter auto and lingering curses, boon corruption is converts a lort of times in non damge skills (5 out of 8 conditons deal no damage) the only synergy is RS #4 but in terms of dps uptime it is overshadowed by dark path and tainted shackles.
