Guild Wars 2

DaliIndica.9041:

Black Teagan.9215:

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

Yes, you as in its a waste of your time trying to talk sense, which you are trying to do.

Perma vig is all the thief rage and no one can deny only the thief can get it.

I would ask someone to post a build in which thief can get perma vigor, but I suspect people will avoid it or try to talk up some other aspect.

Here is engie perma vigor, no one moaning about that?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;4Vp0;9;9;19-T;22;30-C;9;68p

Thats not even using all my stuff, you would pretty much get nearly 100% uptime on vigor.

Perma vigor is not the problem.
Perma evade is.

DaliIndica.9041:

Mrbig.8019:

DaliIndica.9041:

Black Teagan.9215:

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

Yes, you as in its a waste of your time trying to talk sense, which you are trying to do.

Perma vig is all the thief rage and no one can deny only the thief can get it.

I would ask someone to post a build in which thief can get perma vigor, but I suspect people will avoid it or try to talk up some other aspect.

Here is engie perma vigor, no one moaning about that?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;4Vp0;9;9;19-T;22;30-C;9;68p

Thats not even using all my stuff, you would pretty much get nearly 100% uptime on vigor.

6/15 = 1/3 ( +/-)

10/21(20)= 1/2

If you do the math you’ll understand acro-trickery thieves have 5/6 vigor uptime, or rather 50 secs of vigor over a minute.

This without accounting feline grace.

Currently it far exceeds other classes vigor capabilities, aside eles ( renewing stamina still broken).

It seems you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

Even on your “perma vigor” engie build you would have

6/10
3/15

24/30= 4/5, or rather still less then acro-trickery thief.

And nobody picks the boon turret trait.

I mean, it’s not even rocket science, i’m sure people do this in primary school

I knew someone would take the bait.

First off, saying no one takes that engie trait is wrong, as some people do take it as its pretty nice. But lets say that at top level it doesnt get picked up. Nor does trickery builds either.

You moaners are so easy to goad into utter nonsense, you always want everything to be static and exactly how it shows your opinion, but anything outside of that (like the actual game) then oh no lets get rid.

No decent thief is going to give up extra damage or a far weaker steal just so they can dodge about. I honestly think you are sitting in hotjoin and soloQ and sometimes run into one, and they beat you. Sometimes it goes like that, you need to just get over it.

But please, put some more “facts” up whilst any time some points out other builds having the same or higher level of things is just not workable. You cannot have it all ways, pick a spec and debate that.

But I suspect you will try to wiggle out of it as you have no clue what you are talking about and if I am some primary school kid your the dunce sat in the corner.

lawl what is this guy even saying

so warriors can gets perm regen from banners on top of their signet and w/e else they run that gains health. but a thief gets “perm” vigor and he whole word freaks out. WHERES A DEV i need this fixed so i can still get face rolled by thief’s figuring something new after a big nerf.

Permanent vigor isn’t the problem.

The problem is feline grace bypassing the 100% endurance regen rate cap. Everyone else gets just vigor. Thieves with 6 acro/trickery can get ~50% more dodges (from feline grace reducing dodge “cost” by ~35%) on top of vigor, plus withdraw on top of that. Personally I’d change feline grace to “endurance regenerates 50% faster” so it doesn’t stack with vigor.

1. There is not problem in the current Meta Sd is not over performing at all.

2. If you wanna blame something its strength runes, they allow current sd to avoid traiting into critical strikes or heavily into deadly arts and still maintain damage. Its same reason why some of the current ele and war builds are so strong atm. As I stated in the current meta where other class can have defensive ammy or traits and still get good damage due to might stacking thief is not over performing.

Undertow.2389:

Permanent vigor isn’t the problem.

The problem is feline grace bypassing the 100% endurance regen rate cap. Everyone else gets just vigor. Thieves with 6 acro/trickery can get ~50% more dodges (from feline grace reducing dodge “cost” by ~35%) on top of vigor, plus withdraw on top of that. Personally I’d change feline grace to “endurance regenerates 50% faster” so it doesn’t stack with vigor.

Thief can only trait like that due to strength runes at the same time that type of thief can be two shotted by and War or Ele with knights or Celestial amy(20 stack of might ftw).

“1. There is not problem in the current Meta Sd is not over performing at all.”

U WOT M8?
Scizor builds are probably the most popular build out there, I see matches with 4/10 thieves sometimes in soloque and a good many on opposing teams in tq (At Top 30)

Thief is neither buffed or nerfed, we’re still the same as we were before the big patch. The problem is the power creep the April 15th patch introduced. The fire/air sigils and strength runes allows otherwise low damage, bunker specs to now build up enough might or get sigil procs to compensate the otherwise lost damage.
Nerfing thieves is the wrong way to do it, you’re just gonna end up damaging a class for no reason.
Nerfing strenght runes and sigils is gonna force thieves to go back to DA or CS if they want damage, thus giving up Acrobatics or Trickery.

azerte.4365:

Thief is neither buffed or nerfed, we’re still the same as we were before the big patch. The problem is the power creep the April 15th patch introduced. The fire/air sigils and strength runes allows otherwise low damage, bunker specs to now build up enough might or get sigil procs to compensate the otherwise lost damage.
Nerfing thieves is the wrong way to do it, you’re just gonna end up damaging a class for no reason.
Nerfing strenght runes and sigils is gonna force thieves to go back to DA or CS if they want damage, thus giving up Acrobatics or Trickery.

Agreed.
Also why is it ok for the evade spam to deal same damage as normal attacks? Would it be ok to reduce Flanking and increase (or leave as it is ) Larcenous strike?
I know a lot is not just 333333 but shorter animation from 3-1 or dodge-1 , but those are harder for them to fix than number tweaks (cough healsig 10months cough)

I think they are happy with the current position of the thief and dont want to change this op kitten .Nerf mesmer because everyone crying they are too strong? No prob,nerfed.Warriors crying?Buff them. But when need to balance thieves… they wont,because they are crying: do not take only one thing which i can play

Undertow.2389:

Permanent vigor isn’t the problem.

The problem is feline grace bypassing the 100% endurance regen rate cap. Everyone else gets just vigor. Thieves with 6 acro/trickery can get ~50% more dodges (from feline grace reducing dodge “cost” by ~35%) on top of vigor, plus withdraw on top of that. Personally I’d change feline grace to “endurance regenerates 50% faster” so it doesn’t stack with vigor.

Ranger, Elementalist, Engineer all have passive traits for quicker endurance regen on top of Vigor.

dank.3680:

Ranger, Elementalist, Engineer all have passive traits for quicker endurance regen on top of Vigor.

They don’t stack with vigour.

First: If a thief “perma-dodge” like u call them, they dont do damage, so why the hastle.
(if they dps you with sword 3 all the time, they’re wasting their initiative, so they’ll be vuln soon)
Second: you CANT beat a S/D Thief if you dont know how they work. I suggest starting playing one or watch Stream/youtube videos.

I play all 8 classes (but most warr, ele and thief) and I can honestly say I smash thiefs like musquito’s or have them run away from me.

This is a l2p issue. Hell, I even beat 80% of s/d thiefs with my Ranger.. Don’t let me even start about my Condi Necro (which still counters thief like pre-patch).

Just my 2 cents

EDIT: What does need to be fixed and nerfed is the ridiculous Condition thief, which can bunker 2 dps’s for quite some time and still able to down one.

EDIT II: You can also see GW2 as Pokémon. One build counters the other while the other counters his.

Example: Water beats Fire. Fire beats Leaf. Leaf beats Water.
Example: Hambow beats Necro. Necro beats Thief. Thief beats Hambow

So you can’t expect to kill EVERYONE with one single build. Only a few counters s/d thief ones and only a few counters hambow and condi necro..

Really simple actually..
You just need to train a lot and not be like “r19 pvp cant kill teef wtf OP forum QQ nerfplz”
Not saying OP was like that but a lot are, and not only mentioning s/d thiefs^^

For me, the problem with thieves is not that they are OP when they are alive. Sure they are somewhat op but there are ways here and there to counter them(but means youll be weak against other classes).

Rather its their capacity to stay invi for a very long time when they are down. For mesmers, its quite reasonable. Its like 50/50 they have a chance to get away and quite irritating to finish, but still alright. Some thieves i’ve played against can go invi until they can completely resurrect themselves. So that’s not fair in many ways.

projectcedric.6951:

For me, the problem with thieves is not that they are OP when they are alive. Sure they are somewhat op but there are ways here and there to counter them(but means youll be weak against other classes).

Rather its their capacity to stay invi for a very long time when they are down. For mesmers, its quite reasonable. Its like 50/50 they have a chance to get away and quite irritating to finish, but still alright. Some thieves i’ve played against can go invi until they can completely resurrect themselves. So that’s not fair in many ways.

They have 3 seconds invisibility on downed state. Just keep dps’ing around

Terrorsquad.2349:

projectcedric.6951:

For me, the problem with thieves is not that they are OP when they are alive. Sure they are somewhat op but there are ways here and there to counter them(but means youll be weak against other classes).

Rather its their capacity to stay invi for a very long time when they are down. For mesmers, its quite reasonable. Its like 50/50 they have a chance to get away and quite irritating to finish, but still alright. Some thieves i’ve played against can go invi until they can completely resurrect themselves. So that’s not fair in many ways.

They have 3 seconds invisibility on downed state. Just keep dps’ing around

It goes something like: stealth just before downed (+ remove 3 condi on stealth + 1 sec more from traits) then stealth skill plus down so that’s about 8 seconds. Then stealth again upon ressing himself.

And yes, im pretty sure there was only 2 of us.

*something of this sort. At the very least some can heal up to like 90%~ before losing stealth, and of course i wouldn’t know where he would be and he could just teleport to somewhere relatively away while stealthed/downed. So by the time I could reach him to dps he had healed completely and stealthed away again.

Yea, he could have been just really skilled, but even so, you can only rely on a lot of luck to counter that.

In comparison, other classes downed state skills are so pretty much useless: necro (fear only one foe then what?), warrior (resurrect but gonna be confirmed dead anyway), ele (vapor form to annoy finishers just for a couple of minutes), guard (push nearby foes once and then what again?)… with the exception of maybe the mesmer and the ranger who has an awesome pet heal.

Terrorsquad.2349:

First: If a thief “perma-dodge” like u call them, they dont do damage, so why the hastle.
(if they dps you with sword 3 all the time, they’re wasting their initiative, so they’ll be vuln soon)
Second: you CANT beat a S/D Thief if you dont know how they work. I suggest starting playing one or watch Stream/youtube videos.

I play all 8 classes (but most warr, ele and thief) and I can honestly say I smash thiefs like musquito’s or have them run away from me.

This is a l2p issue. Hell, I even beat 80% of s/d thiefs with my Ranger.. Don’t let me even start about my Condi Necro (which still counters thief like pre-patch).

they dont do damage but even traited in 2 non-damage lines my mesmer loing 8k – 10k hp after 2 hits MAGIC
i destroyed tonns of 1rank s/d thieves , look at me im cool © Terrorsquad.2349
go l2p in tetris , the great threat of s/d thieves
full acro/trick thief dont do damage at all , yay

Odik.4587:

Terrorsquad.2349:

First: If a thief “perma-dodge” like u call them, they dont do damage, so why the hastle.
(if they dps you with sword 3 all the time, they’re wasting their initiative, so they’ll be vuln soon)
Second: you CANT beat a S/D Thief if you dont know how they work. I suggest starting playing one or watch Stream/youtube videos.

I play all 8 classes (but most warr, ele and thief) and I can honestly say I smash thiefs like musquito’s or have them run away from me.

This is a l2p issue. Hell, I even beat 80% of s/d thiefs with my Ranger.. Don’t let me even start about my Condi Necro (which still counters thief like pre-patch).

they dont do damage but even traited in 2 non-damage lines my mesmer loing 8k – 10k hp after 2 hits MAGIC
i destroyed tonns of 1rank s/d thieves , look at me im cool © Terrorsquad.2349
go l2p in tetris , the great threat of s/d thieves
full acro/trick thief dont do damage at all , yay

Well first of all, you’re shatter mesmer. You’re one of the classes which get eaten by thiefs. On the other hand, shatter mesmers can own others a thief cant (dps warr/dps guard due no stability etc etc).

Like I explained, your shatter mesmer is Fire, my thief is Water. Water wins. Phantasm mesmer on the other hand has lot more chance to win from thief.. But like I said, you can’t expect to win vs every class/build with just one build.

If you’re rly looking to just kill s/d thiefs, go Dhuumfire necro. Just did duels with r80 top 150 team arena thief and it was like 8-2 for me.. Doesn’t mean I can own everyone now because an hambow smashes my face and makes me eat dirt. Simple logic, dont rage :>

EDIT: Might wanna check 1v1 King of the Hill arena. Some very experienced shatter mesmer have no trouble with s/d thiefs.. So ya, if they can with same build, then the question remains, why cant you?

Some very experienced shatter mesmer have no trouble with s/d thiefs
^
very experienced shatter mesmer – OK …
above this on 1×1 server got feared in dodge,DODGE INTERRUPT,ofc good thing to interrupt dodge somehow (it was condigaywarrior) 10 sec 4 stack confusions and while i was feared 20 000 pin down which isnt op (15 sec cd lol)
how some1 can like things like that and ppl like u , L2P BROS U DO IT WRONG
everycondiclass > mesmer due no condi remove
thief > mesmer, unlimited dodges, 8-10 k burst an 2-4k autoattacks YOLO
ele > mesmer , outhealing everything mix of high condi and physical damage(hello to buffed celestial amulet)
hammbow > mesmer – u wont win bcuz or u run away from fire or die there
lb / axe sword > mesmer (celestial or soldier doesnt matter) i cant see impale animation because anet dont think what this is important to see incoming torment , mesmer torment u can see at boons and dodge, imlape? u will face everything ? arc arrow > dodge , u left 1 dodge , pin down > dodge, say hello to torment and eviscerate
dps guardian > mesmer – blocks ,blind,extremely high damage , huge instant heal from meditations, 1 of them teleport to enemy burn and he doing what he want we got 1 dead body which must be stomped
no need to tell about broken pets and rangers i guess …
aw engis 4200 burning 7 seconds ,actual recharge time 3 seconds, since mesmer dont have condi remove its matter of seconds or u kill him in few seconds or u slowly die from burning/poison/confusions/nades etc
ow necros … signet of spite bye mesmer
and im talking about tpvp builds
u want to say everything in this game designed to fk mesmer?
(tail swipe, shield of wrath who dont understood)

Its better ifu play the classes u lose against.
I mean, if I see a warrior doing pindown (which has a very obvious animation since patch), I dodge it. Cuz most going to Pindown>swotch hammer with Sigilof intelligence >Smash the kitten out of you.
Hambow is indd a very hard class to deal with mesmer, I know that from experience. But DPS guard and all, it comes down to kiting, where mesmers are very good at still.

Now the reason why you might have a lot of trouble is because those ppl actually play shatter mesmer aswel. Most have only one stunbreaker (Decoy) and some mesmers even use this skill as an offensive skill (dont Q_Q ). Shatter mesmer aint easy to play, I know that aswel. very squishy andlike u mention, u only got nullfield and Power Cleanse mantra (lol). But ya, u just ned to train hard, ask friends to 1v1, spectate 1v1 server and play other classes sometimes to understand their mechanics and weaknesses (thats how I did it, I play all 8 equally lately). Im only talking about using the meta builds currently used now.

Just do that, invest time in experiencing and you’ll be one of the better ones.

(I do still suck at Shatter mesmer :> )

cheers

Odik.4587:

Some very experienced shatter mesmer have no trouble with s/d thiefs
^
very experienced shatter mesmer – OK …
above this on 1×1 server got feared in dodge,DODGE INTERRUPT,ofc good thing to interrupt dodge somehow (it was condigaywarrior) 10 sec 4 stack confusions and while i was feared 20 000 pin down which isnt op (15 sec cd lol)
how some1 can like things like that and ppl like u , L2P BROS U DO IT WRONG
everycondiclass > mesmer due no condi remove
thief > mesmer, unlimited dodges, 8-10 k burst an 2-4k autoattacks YOLO
ele > mesmer , outhealing everything mix of high condi and physical damage(hello to buffed celestial amulet)
hammbow > mesmer – u wont win bcuz or u run away from fire or die there
lb / axe sword > mesmer (celestial or soldier doesnt matter) i cant see impale animation because anet dont think what this is important to see incoming torment , mesmer torment u can see at boons and dodge, imlape? u will face everything ? arc arrow > dodge , u left 1 dodge , pin down > dodge, say hello to torment and eviscerate
dps guardian > mesmer – blocks ,blind,extremely high damage , huge instant heal from meditations, 1 of them teleport to enemy burn and he doing what he want we got 1 dead body which must be stomped
no need to tell about broken pets and rangers i guess …
aw engis 4200 burning 7 seconds ,actual recharge time 3 seconds, since mesmer dont have condi remove its matter of seconds or u kill him in few seconds or u slowly die from burning/poison/confusions/nades etc
ow necros … signet of spite bye mesmer
and im talking about tpvp builds
u want to say everything in this game designed to fk mesmer?
(tail swipe, shield of wrath who dont understood)

That post gave me cancer.

Absent Minded.5821:

Odik.4587:

Some very experienced shatter mesmer have no trouble with s/d thiefs
^
very experienced shatter mesmer – OK …
above this on 1×1 server got feared in dodge,DODGE INTERRUPT,ofc good thing to interrupt dodge somehow (it was condigaywarrior) 10 sec 4 stack confusions and while i was feared 20 000 pin down which isnt op (15 sec cd lol)
how some1 can like things like that and ppl like u , L2P BROS U DO IT WRONG
everycondiclass > mesmer due no condi remove
thief > mesmer, unlimited dodges, 8-10 k burst an 2-4k autoattacks YOLO
ele > mesmer , outhealing everything mix of high condi and physical damage(hello to buffed celestial amulet)
hammbow > mesmer – u wont win bcuz or u run away from fire or die there
lb / axe sword > mesmer (celestial or soldier doesnt matter) i cant see impale animation because anet dont think what this is important to see incoming torment , mesmer torment u can see at boons and dodge, imlape? u will face everything ? arc arrow > dodge , u left 1 dodge , pin down > dodge, say hello to torment and eviscerate
dps guardian > mesmer – blocks ,blind,extremely high damage , huge instant heal from meditations, 1 of them teleport to enemy burn and he doing what he want we got 1 dead body which must be stomped
no need to tell about broken pets and rangers i guess …
aw engis 4200 burning 7 seconds ,actual recharge time 3 seconds, since mesmer dont have condi remove its matter of seconds or u kill him in few seconds or u slowly die from burning/poison/confusions/nades etc
ow necros … signet of spite bye mesmer
and im talking about tpvp builds
u want to say everything in this game designed to fk mesmer?
(tail swipe, shield of wrath who dont understood)

That post gave me cancer.

you’ve already had cancer, I do not attribute this merit

i get it you are terrible mesmer!