Guild Wars 2

laquito.5269:

Mrbig.8019:

ok checkin….

nope couldn’t find you

Lordrosicky.5813:

Should be a locked forum for only people currently in the top 100 of either solo or team queue where all balance issues are discussed and decided.

Guess I’m the only one of us allowed to talk then.

http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/laquito5269

Seriously guys, go play some PvE.

Did I say that would include me? Don’t think I did. lol

Lordrosicky.5813:

Did I say that would include me? Don’t think I did. lol

It’s just funny that some people obviously still think that Leaderboards are a skill determiner, when they’re obviously not. Not to even mention how ridiculous your idea is.

It gets even worse, when some random even starts boasting about being ~250 on the leaderboard, be it solo or teamQ. Seriously?

OIIIIIO.7825:

Odik.4587:

Just look at this 2 hits how i suppose to kill him after that? just instant 2 hits
http://i.imgur.com/mq5hiVv.jpg

In that image I see four hits.

1. Steal
2. Slice
3. Flame Blast
4. Lightning Strike

Dude, really? Come on. Don’t be such a … you’ve understood.

As for topic: thief is indeed a class which should be looked into, but the main problem with thief is FELINE GRACE. The fact that this is a 15 points minor trait is the thing that makes thief too much well performing.

Think about it: without feline grace thief would have access to almost perma-vigor, and an extra dodge from Sword #3, end of the story. It doesn’t sound that overpowered, right? Especially because a thief has zero defenses a part from stealth and evades and we know that stealth is not viable, due to the nature of SPVP.

At the same time permavigor + extra dodges for “free” (depending on the SKILL of the thief to manage it’s ini pool, which is what separates good thieves from bad thieves) wouldn’t be bad at all.

laquito.5269:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Did I say that would include me? Don’t think I did. lol

It’s just funny that some people obviously still think that Leaderboards are a skill determiner, when they’re obviously not. Not to even mention how ridiculous your idea is.

It gets even worse, when some random even starts boasting about being ~250 on the leaderboard, be it solo or teamQ. Seriously?

They don’t mean much. But anyone not in the top 100 of solo or team queue cannot be competent at the game. Therefore a forum for the top 100 people to decide on balance without interference would be a good idea.

Too many people are discussing mechanics in this thread as generalities with little to no context.

There’s a lack of value there.

An opinion about teleports being gimmicky or stealth being gimmicky is unimportant. Also there are 5 and 3 professions with those mechanics respectively, so gimmicky isn’t the phrasing I’d use. ‘My opinion is, I don’t like something about these mechanics’ is what’s really being communicated.

Few of these opinions are even tying back to S/D with examples or details.

Another QQ thief thread is just going to get an L2P response from people that have adapted. If you can’t see this cycle unfolding before you broaden your perspective. Otherwise these threads become largely a waste.

Lordrosicky.5813:

They don’t mean much. But anyone not in the top 100 of solo or team queue cannot be competent at the game. Therefore a forum for the top 100 people to decide on balance without interference would be a good idea.

What? lol, no it isn’t. Leaderboards are broken and don’t resemble a players skill or competence. They never did, still don’t and probably never will. How is this a good idea if some total “newbie” is gained access to a game deciding sphere, because he managed to luck out in soloQ and made it to top 50, while having played only ~20 matches? It is beyond me, how you can even slightly think this would be a good idea. SoloQ is rolling dices and teamQ is idling once you reached top 100.

You’re currently punished for playing too much and rewarded for playing once or twice a week (even less in teamQ).

laquito.5269:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They don’t mean much. But anyone not in the top 100 of solo or team queue cannot be competent at the game. Therefore a forum for the top 100 people to decide on balance without interference would be a good idea.

What? lol, no it isn’t. Leaderboards are broken and don’t resemble a players skill or competence. They never did, still don’t and probably never will. How is this a good idea if some total “newbie” is gained access to a game deciding sphere, because he managed to luck out in soloQ and made it to top 50, while having played only ~20 matches? It is beyond me, how you can even slightly think this would be a good idea. SoloQ is rolling dices and teamQ is idling once you reached top 100.

You’re currently punished for playing too much and rewarded for playing once or twice a week (even less in teamQ).

Ofc they don’t for people afking at high rating like you do.

You’re the clear example of the people who has no clue about the game.

If you think being in top 100 thx to not permanent decay while playing one match every week means you’re good you’re clearly wrong.

And like many know, i go SOLO in team q, playing every day. Just saying.

and if you’re going to tell me people like Rom, Tage, Fraelina, Blackjack etc. etc. and all the following with their 4k + tournies, playing everyday and being on top, are not better than you, afking at high rank, then there’s indeed something wrong with you.

Mrbig.8019:

Ofc they don’t for people afking at high rating like you do.

You’re the clear example of the people who has no clue about the game.

If you think being in top 100 thx to not permanent decay while playing one match every week means you’re good you’re clearly wrong.

And like many know, i go SOLO in team q, playing every day. Just saying.

and if you’re going to tell me people like Rom, Tage, Fraelina, Blackjack etc. etc. and all the following with their 4k + tournies, playing everyday and being on top, are not better than you, afking at high rank, then there’s indeed something wrong with you.

You realize you’re contradicting yourself? First you say that Leaderboards are a skill determiner and now you claim it is not, cuz I managed to be high ranked by playing a lot less than you do.?

I won this discussion either way, you just made a fool out of yourself. I don’t even think you would’ve realized how the Leaderboards work until I pointed it out for you.

Never claimed to be better than any of those, I even didn’t say a word about my own perception, but it’s okay, go back to playing in your “pro” top 250 sphere.

laquito.5269:

Mrbig.8019:

Ofc they don’t for people afking at high rating like you do.

You’re the clear example of the people who has no clue about the game.

If you think being in top 100 thx to not permanent decay while playing one match every week means you’re good you’re clearly wrong.

And like many know, i go SOLO in team q, playing every day. Just saying.

and if you’re going to tell me people like Rom, Tage, Fraelina, Blackjack etc. etc. and all the following with their 4k + tournies, playing everyday and being on top, are not better than you, afking at high rank, then there’s indeed something wrong with you.

You realize you’re contradicting yourself? First you say that Leaderboards are a skill determiner and now you claim it is not, cuz I managed to be high ranked by playing a lot less than you do.?

I won this discussion either way, you just made a fool out of yourself. I don’t even think you would’ve realized how the Leaderboards work until I pointed it out for you.

Never claimed to be better than any of those, I even didn’t say a word about my own perception, but it’s okay, go back to playing in your “pro” top 250 sphere.

I don’t know how leaderboards work ? LAWL i made tons of threads about how broken leaderboards are.

Point is i don’t care, i like to play and will do so, facing all the odds i will.

I totally disregard afkers opinion since they’ve no clue about this game: if you play once in a week afking at high rank you can end up against a top team which will 500-0 you and your rank will still go up, so you can afk again ( which is exactly what you do).

Leaderboards can be a skill determiner if you play costantly: they can’t be if you abuse the broken system in order to stay on top with few games.

End of the story.

Lordrosicky.5813:

laquito.5269:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Did I say that would include me? Don’t think I did. lol

It’s just funny that some people obviously still think that Leaderboards are a skill determiner, when they’re obviously not. Not to even mention how ridiculous your idea is.

It gets even worse, when some random even starts boasting about being ~250 on the leaderboard, be it solo or teamQ. Seriously?

They don’t mean much. But anyone not in the top 100 of solo or team queue cannot be competent at the game. Therefore a forum for the top 100 people to decide on balance without interference would be a good idea.

Sounds like a pretty difficult game if there are only 100 people competent at it. Even rocket science is a lot easier :p

e-kitten flexing level is strong with this thread

Sorry, 2/0/0/6/6 s/d is not OP in this meta. I’m still not happy with the meta though. That spec shouldn’t be a viable damage dealer and neither should a lot of the other profession’s meta builds. There should be a place for the 2/6/0/0/6 thief but right now the extra damage isn’t enough to justify it. Why lose half your defense for ~20% more offense?

So… I’d say we need the dual sigil procs nerfed back to how it used to be. Some of these new rune sets like strength and pirate should be scaled back also because the powercreep they created is pretty destructive for the game.

I agree with many other people in the thread that the biggest balance problems right now are due to Runes of Strength and Air and Fire sigils and I don’t believe that thieves are too strong when compared to the top specs from other classes.

However I do think that thieves crowd out other zerker builds. It would be nice if thieves didn’t have such a massive advantage when fighting a zerker mesmer or something similar. How one would change thieves so that they are weaker against squishy specs while not nerfing them against hambow, nade engi, or the popular ele builds I have no clue.

Pollution.8703:

I agree with many other people in the thread that the biggest balance problems right now are due to Runes of Strength and Air and Fire sigils and I don’t believe that thieves are too strong when compared to the top specs from other classes.

However I do think that thieves crowd out other zerker builds. It would be nice if thieves didn’t have such a massive advantage when fighting a zerker mesmer or something similar. How one would change thieves so that they are weaker against squishy specs while not nerfing them against hambow, nade engi, or the popular ele builds I have no clue.

Dps guard is a counter to thief.

Zerk warrior builds can counter thief too.

I’ve seen power necros do well too, but obviously they are lacking in viability for coordinated conquest.

Condi engineers do well against thieves, they’re glassy.

However zerk shatter Mesmer does struggle. As do most zerk ele builds.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Black Teagan.9215:

Kicast.1459:

Black Teagan.9215:

@Lordrosicky.5813

At first I would read your whole text, but as I read this:

Lordrosicky.5813:

So you have a class which:
1, Has no cooldowns which lowers the skill required – its just spam
2, Breaks the only game mode anet have given the players
3, With all this, is still the best profession at combat
4, Probably also the best class at stopping stomps

I stopped.

This is the part, which show me, show us all, that you have no clue about the thief class and write these things only for your own personal benefit.

No arguments, false pretences and stupid comparisons.

Thief spotted

Sry, that a Thief player know more about this class, than crying Non-Thieves.

Not really. I am beyond crying to be honest. That was 6 months ago. I don’t play anymore because of the same old game mode. It is really hilarious to be honest. They give you one game mode and then give 1 class 3x the mobility of any other class. So thief just breaks the game. It is mechanically broken. Also happens to be the best class in combat, in pretty much every situation – 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5. It is still the best.

But anet don’t care. That is really that simple!

If the thief profession is half as good as you say, why not play it yourself?!
After a week come back and share your experience.

Pollution.8703:

However I do think that thieves crowd out other zerker builds. It would be nice if thieves didn’t have such a massive advantage when fighting a zerker mesmer or something similar. How one would change thieves so that they are weaker against squishy specs while not nerfing them against hambow, nade engi, or the popular ele builds I have no clue.

^ this

dylan.5409:

Simple solution would be to give a thief a stacking buff so that they do more damage the longer they stay in a fight while reducing the burst they get from stealth. Other damage modifiers would have to be adjusted as well

Are you sure you’re playing in this meta?

Thieves don’t need stealth to do bursts. We’re talking s/d here, the burst comes from sword 3 and auto attacks.

yea , i know, non stealth would have to be adjusted, as would all other weapons and initiative for defensive moves. But outside of changing the proff’s mechanics completely, this might allow for other zerker proff’s while keeping thieves strong vs sustain builds like hambow
.

gesho.9468:

Pollution.8703:

However I do think that thieves crowd out other zerker builds. It would be nice if thieves didn’t have such a massive advantage when fighting a zerker mesmer or something similar. How one would change thieves so that they are weaker against squishy specs while not nerfing them against hambow, nade engi, or the popular ele builds I have no clue.

^ this

^ this

D/p and S/D is coming back in a big way..

Especially with the new steal buff; Why’d they buff it to not require LOS ? :/ feels like dumbing the game down even further while making balance non existant.

Darnis.4056:

D/p and S/D is coming back in a big way..

Especially with the new steal buff; Why’d they buff it to not require LOS ? :/ feels like dumbing the game down even further while making balance non existant.

From my experience they buffed it to include LoS. I haven’t seen any results from that ‘fix’, and I still steal without teleporting while getting my stolen bundle.

Whats the build for this super thief you are moaning about? is it that amazing 6/6/6/6/6 using the special amulet that gives 2000 to all stats?

A lot of people are complaing about stuff that no build carries all off.

Teleport, wow, what an amazing advantage I now have because I have teleported to my enemy, I wonder if this will make me win. Oh thats right I have dodgy condition removal, the lowest health pool in the game and I take damage as well as wet paper.

People seem to think thieves are some sort of godlike class that is really easy to play, yet you see a team with two or more thieves, and they get ruined.

They are the best at mobility, getting around the map faster than anyone else. Thats about all they excel at, everything else is either as good as others or much worse. Just play one to see how many flaws the class has.

The wrong thing is the thief mechanics.
Since u can spam ur skill over and over again, it will be overpower.

SunnyLane.9386:

The wrong thing is the thief mechanics.
Since u can spam ur skill over and over again, it will be overpower.

Clearly never played a thief in your entire life. Please, go make one and spam your attacks. See how often a decent player will utterly own you.

Shockwave.1230:

Darnis.4056:

D/p and S/D is coming back in a big way..

Especially with the new steal buff; Why’d they buff it to not require LOS ? :/ feels like dumbing the game down even further while making balance non existant.

From my experience they buffed it to include LoS. I haven’t seen any results from that ‘fix’, and I still steal without teleporting while getting my stolen bundle.

No :/ that would be how it was before; you can’t LoS steal anymore. You might just be too far or something .. or they’re at an impossible to get to area.

You can steal through a lot of ledges on foefire for instance.. even if the guy is half way to quarry.

DaliIndica.9041:

SunnyLane.9386:

The wrong thing is the thief mechanics.
Since u can spam ur skill over and over again, it will be overpower.

Clearly never played a thief in your entire life. Please, go make one and spam your attacks. See how often a decent player will utterly own you.

I play thief since beta and this is MY opinion, if u have a different one ok, but til now u said nothing to refute my words.

Ah the beauty. We sit here and argue about how thief is OP and the warriors sit in their fort, peeking over the battlements saying “nobody look over here!”

SunnyLane.9386:

DaliIndica.9041:

SunnyLane.9386:

The wrong thing is the thief mechanics.
Since u can spam ur skill over and over again, it will be overpower.

Clearly never played a thief in your entire life. Please, go make one and spam your attacks. See how often a decent player will utterly own you.

I play thief since beta and this is MY opinion, if u have a different one ok, but til now u said nothing to refute my words.

Ok then, lets pick that apart.

Spamming Jammin

Heartseeker: GG you just wasted all your ini on a move that doesnt hit hard unless they have low health.
Death Blossom : When it works its not bad, doesnt match up to other types of bleed stacking and its prone to not working.

1. Dagger; Its a cripple and spamming that is stupid
   Cloak and Dagger: Good luck spamming that to a win.

Backstab: you cannot spam it, only once every 5 seconds if you get it perfect, and that will assume the enemy is just stood there

Sword #2: I could see how this would be overpowered, but the cast time in place its not amazing, but it is pretty good.

PistolWhip: Spamming this would pretty much be the end of your life in a few seconds. Everyone and his dog knows how to counter that and its too expensive to spam and expect results.

FLank Strike and Lac: You could spam this I suppose, but that would lock up your other attacks. If you spam it too hard it will miss a lot.

Pistol #2: have fun spamming a root, it has almost no use as an attack.

Pistol/Dagger #3 It teleports you away so good luck spamming that, you would have to move back to the enemy to hit them again, all the while your exposed.

Shortbow is criminal but no one notices because they are too short sighted and only see rage. This weapon is hands down the best weapon in the game. It has so much going for it, so many amazing skills. I refuse to run a thief build without it, you would be a fool to give up all the amazing tools it offers. Know why no one moans about it much? because no big damage (although it can do, which makes it all the more amusing). You see, because it doesnt hit hard, and in some cases it doesnt hit at all as thats not the purpose, yet people overlock it because it wont show up much on the kill breakdown.

Stealth: Ahh, the main source of hate since the day the game came out. Spamming it really doesnt get you anything. You will be invisible, but as soon as you attack you are exposed again, and keeping it up costs.

I think the main reason people moan is because thieves are pretty good at disengaging from a fight, and people feel a kill settles the fight. Thieves stop that. Even though he is often running off to do something else, thus giving the other player the point, people still dont feel its ok. Its really over rated, winning the match is what matters and sitting in stealth wandering around the middle of nowhere trying to avoid combat till your health regens is not helping the team in any way.

Thieves are not even in a great place right now, outside of their amazing ability to get around the map, every class can do every other role better. Not to mention, people are using warriors with high HP, high armor and amazing condition removal AND hitting 5-10k evis, then popping down a firefield that will eat you alive. No one moans, its the thief. Engies are pretty much godlike at times, and they have a million ways to attack, plus no one has noticed that most of their attacks are low cooldown, they are almost thieves, but instead of using a few moves, they can bring a whole host and just switch around and come back ready for them to be off CD. But yeah, thiefs are an issue, thieves with no stability to speak off, no knock backs, no realistic access to burns (outside of runes which would be a bit stupid), retaliation only for a few seconds AND your fighting a mesmer. Oh and steal will often break for no real reason, it just fails.

The 2/0/0/6/6 build trades damage for utility or survivability compared to 2/6/0/6/0 or 2/6/0/0/6 respectively and is perfectly fine.
The only reason why thief is so strong at the moment is the combination of fire/air sigils and the new rune of strength, which now makes up for the damage loss. Additionally, since most offensive power specs use rune of strength, the boonsteal of this spec is more useful now.

This however is not a thief specific problem. Nerfing a class just because of a certain combination of rune/sigils is extremely short-sighted. The problem remains, yet the class is nerfed and eventually forced into that rune/sigils even more.

Yet most of the time when press B and see thief stacked team versing wars guard engi ect... you think of crap prob lost this one. You consider do I just go with it or should I reroll? Yet if you have a stacked team of Gaurds, Wars, Engis you think this should be easy.

Paulo.8459:

The 2/0/0/6/6 build trades damage for utility or survivability compared to 2/6/0/6/0 or 2/6/0/0/6 respectively and is perfectly fine.
The only reason why thief is so strong at the moment is the combination of fire/air sigils and the new rune of strength, which now makes up for the damage loss. Additionally, since most offensive power specs use rune of strength, the boonsteal of this spec is more useful now.

This however is not a thief specific problem. Nerfing a class just because of a certain combination of rune/sigils is extremely short-sighted. The problem remains, yet the class is nerfed and eventually forced into that rune/sigils even more.

This is why we should totally nerf Rune of Strength. A rune set that allows people to play a lot more defensively, while still have great damage, is broken. This is the best way to nerf ele too.

More whining about a class that dodges a lot but dies in 1 hit. ;/ Aim better?

People need to realize when it come to thiefs there health bar is not a good representation of whether you are close to killing them or not. Players need to track the amount of cooldowns they have left because a thief can basically be 2-3 shotted by a class with Knights or Celesital ammy on(15-25 stacks of might is deadly).

vincecontix.1264:

People need to realize when it come to thiefs there health bar is not a good representation of whether you are close to killing them or not. Players need to track the amount of cooldowns they have left because a thief can basically be 2-3 shotted by a class with Knights or Celesital ammy on(15-25 stacks of might is deadly).

Pretty much anytime you can see a thief, he is close to death. Not to mention even non-specced condis can be a real issue, let alone ones in the right spec for it.

The thing with thief is there is literally no counter play.

Beyond a few specs like ele it is impossible to stop them capping your point all game unless you sit on it. They are so fast they can go and decap it and then be back in a fight before anyone notices.

Same for 1v1’s. Not having a thief means you can’t really turn those 1v1s into 2v1s. A thief does this and just dominates all games.

In addition, a thief is probably the tankiest class in the game. It sounds stupid to the uneducated guild wars 2 gamer, but actually dodging is just immunity. It is that simple. Dodging is like having endure pain and berzerker stance up. Having a class able to dodge literally for ever (or evade) is just giving a class about a 75% up time on immunity. Think about that logically and it shows how ridiculously broken it is.

Warrior might be easy to play etc, but at least they die. At least they can’t get from 1 side of the map to another in about 5 seconds. At least once they use their cooldowns (ye they actually have cooldowns) then they die. This all contrasts with the thief class.

I have barely played this game for a while now. But yesterday, I played for the first time in ages and was shocked to see that thief was still not addressed. A bad warrior was still a massive powerhouse, which is dumb. And thief was the same…but worse, way worse.

My suggestions on thief:
1, Implement a initiative management system like in every other game ever. This means that going low on initiative reduces the speed on initiative regen. This increases the skill cap and dissuades spamming. It also adds the illusion of cooldowns. I would say under half initiative and it regens at 0.75 a second.

2, In addition to above, I would significantly nerf shortbow #5. The mobility was not rebalanced after the initiative regen buff. This skill should be increased to 8-9 initative so that it is less spammable and more used as a “get out of jail” teleport. This way a thief will have to use skill to decide “Do I move around the map super quick and then have less dps when I get there?” or “Do I go a little slower and have more dps?”

3, I would nerf feline grace by half.

4, Withdraw should have a 1 second cast time before the evade begins. This would promote counter play so that you can actually interrupt their heal. I think as designers, when anet see a heal being used to get around the map quicker then they really have issues. An alternative would be to increase the cooldown to 25 seconds

With these changes, I have no doubt thief would still be really really really good. Maybe still the best class in the game, just because of its inherent strengths.

DaliIndica.9041:

vincecontix.1264:

People need to realize when it come to thiefs there health bar is not a good representation of whether you are close to killing them or not. Players need to track the amount of cooldowns they have left because a thief can basically be 2-3 shotted by a class with Knights or Celesital ammy on(15-25 stacks of might is deadly).

Pretty much anytime you can see a thief, he is close to death. Not to mention even non-specced condis can be a real issue, let alone ones in the right spec for it.

Yup current meta of thief has less condi management nuking capabilities due to lyssa nerf.

Lordrosicky.5813:

The thing with thief is there is literally no counter play.

My suggestions on thief:
1, Implement a initiative management system like in every other game ever. This means that going low on initiative reduces the speed on initiative regen. This increases the skill cap and dissuades spamming. It also adds the illusion of cooldowns. I would say under half initiative and it regens at 0.75 a second.

2, In addition to above, I would significantly nerf shortbow #5. The mobility was not rebalanced after the initiative regen buff. This skill should be increased to 8-9 initative so that it is less spammable and more used as a “get out of jail” teleport. This way a thief will have to use skill to decide “Do I move around the map super quick and then have less dps when I get there?” or “Do I go a little slower and have more dps?”

3, I would nerf feline grace by half.

4, Withdraw should have a 1 second cast time before the evade begins. This would promote counter play so that you can actually interrupt their heal. I think as designers, when anet see a heal being used to get around the map quicker then they really have issues. An alternative would be to increase the cooldown to 25 seconds

With these changes, I have no doubt thief would still be really really really good. Maybe still the best class in the game, just because of its inherent strengths.

1, : And how will you compensate this?
Thieves Initative recharge already so slow, that over the same long lapse of time, every other class do circa double so many attacks than thieves can do + Thieves have no access to another weaponset for 4 another immediate useable skills, once their pool is empty.

2, : The initiative regain were buffed, because it was to slowly to fight longer fights and IA is a weaponskill, one who shall use in a fight. Furthermore the thief shall be a fast class, more the fastest and IA is really no cheap skill, even not now.

3, : Please, explain me why Feline Grace is a problem.
It’s currently the only Traits that is useful for Non-Stealth-Acrobatic thieves.

4, : Why a delay of 1 sec?
An evade isn’t so strong, how stealth and the addictional effect of Withdraw in the most cases redundant, also is the heal very low, especially for a class with no deffense skills or damagereduction boons and in compare to every other class.

PS: Why do you, and all the others too, try to treat the symptoms, instead to cure the real disease?

The issue lies in air sigils proccing for 2k+ dmg

The issue lies more also in strength runes, they need to be nerfed

The issue also lies in the evade spam that acro s/d is able to achieve

The survivability of any other thief build is fine and there’s risk vs reward with a crit strikes thief build in tPvP. With acro s/d you literally can jus spam evades without thinking and avoid 90% of the damage. After trying the build out in duels and in alot of solo que matches I found it’s beyond OP with strength runes and air sigil/fire sigil. The damage procs from those sigils alone is ridiculous but coupled with the amount of evade spam it’s just stupid.

Where are Sanduskel and Burnfall when you need them? ;(

azerte.4365:

Where are Sanduskel and Burnfall when you need them? ;(

Nobody need them. Never!!

azerte.4365:

Where are Sanduskel and Burnfall when you need them? ;(

They may have said some strange things at times,

But at least they don’t valiantly defend crutches.

Defending crutches is the worst thing you can do in an online competitive game.

Black Teagan.9215:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The thing with thief is there is literally no counter play.

My suggestions on thief:
1, Implement a initiative management system like in every other game ever. This means that going low on initiative reduces the speed on initiative regen. This increases the skill cap and dissuades spamming. It also adds the illusion of cooldowns. I would say under half initiative and it regens at 0.75 a second.

2, In addition to above, I would significantly nerf shortbow #5. The mobility was not rebalanced after the initiative regen buff. This skill should be increased to 8-9 initative so that it is less spammable and more used as a “get out of jail” teleport. This way a thief will have to use skill to decide “Do I move around the map super quick and then have less dps when I get there?” or “Do I go a little slower and have more dps?”

3, I would nerf feline grace by half.

4, Withdraw should have a 1 second cast time before the evade begins. This would promote counter play so that you can actually interrupt their heal. I think as designers, when anet see a heal being used to get around the map quicker then they really have issues. An alternative would be to increase the cooldown to 25 seconds

With these changes, I have no doubt thief would still be really really really good. Maybe still the best class in the game, just because of its inherent strengths.

1, : And how will you compensate this?
Thieves Initative recharge already so slow, that over the same long lapse of time, every other class do circa double so many attacks than thieves can do + Thieves have no access to another weaponset for 4 another immediate useable skills, once their pool is empty.

2, : The initiative regain were buffed, because it was to slowly to fight longer fights and IA is a weaponskill, one who shall use in a fight. Furthermore the thief shall be a fast class, more the fastest and IA is really no cheap skill, even not now.

3, : Please, explain me why Feline Grace is a problem.
It’s currently the only Traits that is useful for Non-Stealth-Acrobatic thieves.

4, : Why a delay of 1 sec?
An evade isn’t so strong, how stealth and the addictional effect of Withdraw in the most cases redundant, also is the heal very low, especially for a class with no deffense skills or damagereduction boons and in compare to every other class.

PS: Why do you, and all the others too, try to treat the symptoms, instead to cure the real disease?

I wouldnt bother trying to reason with the typical “I just got beat by a thief so lets nerf them into the point of uselessness”. Just look at the state of the class if those changes were made, it would be pointless to play a thief. Even though thieves are paper thin people still complain.

Not to mention, they never post a build that can do all the things they claim are an issue, they just make up some 6/6/6/6/6 build with soldiers ammy and perma crits with stealth and reveal seemingly not working, as you can spam backstab with it proccing air and fire every single time and steal crits for 20k true story bruv.

Not to mention the thieves amazing heals, the one that does about 15% of your health and provides no real buffs. They also overlook how warriors have real perma endurance regen, nope just ignore that because only thieves who have it for about 33% of the time (5seconds on a 15 second heal, and if you are using a traited signet heal then you have failed)

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

this thread show only 1 thing

this forum need a filter to let only people post who know wtf they talk about

Black Teagan.9215:

azerte.4365:

Where are Sanduskel and Burnfall when you need them? ;(

Nobody need them. Never!!

I know was just joking normally they would’ve already jumped this thread

Black Teagan.9215:

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

Yes, you as in its a waste of your time trying to talk sense, which you are trying to do.

Perma vig is all the thief rage and no one can deny only the thief can get it.

I would ask someone to post a build in which thief can get perma vigor, but I suspect people will avoid it or try to talk up some other aspect.

Here is engie perma vigor, no one moaning about that?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;4Vp0;9;9;19-T;22;30-C;9;68p

Thats not even using all my stuff, you would pretty much get nearly 100% uptime on vigor.

DaliIndica.9041:

Black Teagan.9215:

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

Yes, you as in its a waste of your time trying to talk sense, which you are trying to do.

Perma vig is all the thief rage and no one can deny only the thief can get it.

I would ask someone to post a build in which thief can get perma vigor, but I suspect people will avoid it or try to talk up some other aspect.

Here is engie perma vigor, no one moaning about that?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;4Vp0;9;9;19-T;22;30-C;9;68p

Thats not even using all my stuff, you would pretty much get nearly 100% uptime on vigor.

6/15 = 1/3 ( +/-)

10/21(20)= 1/2

If you do the math you’ll understand acro-trickery thieves have 5/6 vigor uptime, or rather 50 secs of vigor over a minute.

This without accounting feline grace.

Currently it far exceeds other classes vigor capabilities, aside eles ( renewing stamina still broken).

It seems you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

Even on your “perma vigor” engie build you would have

6/10
3/15

24/30= 4/5, or rather still less then acro-trickery thief.

And nobody picks the boon turret trait.

I mean, it’s not even rocket science, i’m sure people do this in primary school

1st, thief’s mechanic is broken, i’m sure sizer would agree on that
2nd, there’s no counter play to steal, specially trickery steal being so strong.

if thief did not exist, the meta would have long shifted and mesmer would not be useless and supcutie would not have rerolled to a thief.

Mrbig.8019:

DaliIndica.9041:

Black Teagan.9215:

@DaliIndica
Do you mean me?

Yes, you as in its a waste of your time trying to talk sense, which you are trying to do.

Perma vig is all the thief rage and no one can deny only the thief can get it.

I would ask someone to post a build in which thief can get perma vigor, but I suspect people will avoid it or try to talk up some other aspect.

Here is engie perma vigor, no one moaning about that?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;4Vp0;9;9;19-T;22;30-C;9;68p

Thats not even using all my stuff, you would pretty much get nearly 100% uptime on vigor.

6/15 = 1/3 ( +/-)

10/21(20)= 1/2

If you do the math you’ll understand acro-trickery thieves have 5/6 vigor uptime, or rather 50 secs of vigor over a minute.

This without accounting feline grace.

Currently it far exceeds other classes vigor capabilities, aside eles ( renewing stamina still broken).

It seems you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

Even on your “perma vigor” engie build you would have

6/10
3/15

24/30= 4/5, or rather still less then acro-trickery thief.

And nobody picks the boon turret trait.

I mean, it’s not even rocket science, i’m sure people do this in primary school

I knew someone would take the bait.

First off, saying no one takes that engie trait is wrong, as some people do take it as its pretty nice. But lets say that at top level it doesnt get picked up. Nor does trickery builds either.

You moaners are so easy to goad into utter nonsense, you always want everything to be static and exactly how it shows your opinion, but anything outside of that (like the actual game) then oh no lets get rid.

No decent thief is going to give up extra damage or a far weaker steal just so they can dodge about. I honestly think you are sitting in hotjoin and soloQ and sometimes run into one, and they beat you. Sometimes it goes like that, you need to just get over it.

But please, put some more “facts” up whilst any time some points out other builds having the same or higher level of things is just not workable. You cannot have it all ways, pick a spec and debate that.

But I suspect you will try to wiggle out of it as you have no clue what you are talking about and if I am some primary school kid your the dunce sat in the corner.

^just wow..you are completely out of touch with the game .Seriously i havent played this gmae for month+ and i can tell that you are talkin nonsense.
Pls educate yourself about what being palyed atm and then start talking..it should take a couple of min at worst

How people can’t see thief is the best/Op class in the game is a really a mystery.