Guild Wars 2

one thing is for certain, 8v8 better be gone. the next problem will be the scattering of an already dwindled population when all these new options are given. tourneys, custom arenas, 1v1 team battles. it’s too much. there’s like 500 people playing at any given time.

a good way to start would be JUST:

- solo queue + 5v5 + matchmaking
- custom arenas (for those who want tourneys, let them do it this way)
- abolish official tourneys (what a joke)
- abolish hotjoin
- enforce light punishment for abandoners (this is absolutely crucial)
- 5v5 must absolutely be enforced. this is the only way new players will learn and understand the meta. funneling the majority of the population into the 8v8 mess was a major mistake. allow 8v8 as part of custom arenas for those who want it (it will be nobody)

thats about as far as i see it going with conquest. once people start to enjoy pvp, add a monthly tournament and team deathmatch.

little too much riding on this patch. the pvp community has been burned pretty hard by lack of iteration and new content so cant really leave vital things out. hope devs are taking notes.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey all, hope you guys had a great break!

• Custom Arenas. This is still our top priority for the time being, as it allows the playerbase to do so many things. You guys can set maps up in the ways that you want, and it you can set up your own servers to allow you to practice with your friends. It also allows custom tournaments, etc. It just gives you guys a lot of control over the game, so we’re pushing hard on it.

Custom Arena’s should be the default instead of the current browser system if that is not already the plan. Otherwise it causes weird fragmentation. There isn’t any need for the current Hotjoin browser implementation if your doing the Custom Arena’s well, and allowing anyone to join in a room so long as it isn’t password protected. “Create room” set your specifications, people join in, choose their team and then you start the game. Can put an option to allow spectators as well.

Also to clarify. Weren’t you adding a monster to temple’s underground shrine? That and are you planning to push Capricorn once you iron out your underwater gameplay?

Tbh I don’t think you need a solo queue. The mist themselves are just really unintuitive compared to GW1’s Team Arena’s. Hard to form a group within the actual mist (where your tournament browser is located) unless maybe you server swap. Forming groups in hotjoin to go back to the mist to register for Tournament play is just unwieldy and painful. Can you guys do something to consolidate more players into the mist themselves instead of server spreading? Used to chat up in Random Arena’s for days as a type of social hub, maybe utilize those overflow mechanics?

ninnnnnja.2345:

I’ll just come right out and say this, you guys know that GW2 PvP will never amount to anything big anymore right? The competitive interest of this game has been lost long ago when most organizations and sponsors took a look at how stale the current state of the game is – the addition of these features will only bring back/in a minimal amount of players (and mostly from the PvE GW2 community, not from new players).

Basically, esport features aren’t really needed anymore in a game that will never become an esport. Just being realistic, those of you in denial of this now will get a rude awakening later down the road. And as far as I know, ANet still has not admit that they shipped sPvP/tPvP as an unfinished product – and still until now it does not even have these basic features everyone expected to be available at launch.

This development cycle is par for the course in GW history. GW1 PvP, which many of reference but don’t seem to actually remember in any light at launch, was a mess. The much flaunted GvG was completely locked off for most people behind having to farm HoH for the Sigil. HoH was gating itself off of rank and had some of the worst map designs in the game (and still does). The entirety of PvP was itself walled off from just about everyone until they farmed 100000 Ettin in NKP and CapSiging those random spawn bosses that held your elites. And all that your average nobody had to play was really RA and TA.

It took a quarter of a year to get Balth Faction added to the game, it took several months more to get the kitten thing balanced and rewarding (and you still had to grind basic PvP in order to be competitive in PvP). That means it took close to half a year for the game to allow you to PvP without forcing you to PvE. We should only consider ourselves lucky that this is not a problem now. Ironically, that long delay to truly enter PvP that many faced in GW1, allowed for the degenerate meta in HoH to die off behind several key nerfs that took a long while to come out (I’m looking at you NR, Prot Bond), for the GvG sigils to get detached from HoH, and for some class balance to find its way into the meta (and that you couldn’t spike down the Lord in 10 seconds with Waestrel’s Worry). We’ve basically got a similar issue here, competitive content is gated behind a stupid design but unlike in GW1 where we were walled off by “Grind PvE for X hours!”, we can all see it clear as day because we have access to everything.

The popularity of GW1 PvP shot up with the first world championship. TL;DR, a (b2p being a rather helpful feature) game can become popular long after launch. Pretty sure LoL took about a year to actually get anyway too, though feel free to correct me.

Gele.2048:

i hate the conquest stile whic brings tanky playing and is boring as kitten i whant cap the flag death match and moust of all RANK i wanna see rank elo sistem COMON they put this kitten primitive pvp sistem in game they develop 5 years what did they miss the leage of legends sistem and WoW whit the arenas , do they live under rock or something .

No, they wanted to make changes to everything, from PvE to PvP. However, instead of using already proved and working systems from other games, and GW1 for that matter, which was the way to go, on top with their changes, they just changed everything for the sake of changing it, being different, and now it came back to them. Note that I’m now talking only about PvP aspect of the game. PvE is miles in front of PvP, and although I don’t like playing PvE, outside of single player games, I must say they pretty much nailed it.

Problem is much bigger than they think it seems. MM, ladders, spec mode, custom arenas, are all extremely important things when it comes to PvP, but only if you got yourself solid bases to build upon. Unfortunately, people just don’t like playing conquest mode(well, majority doesn’t, and it’s a fact, I’m not pulling things out of my pocket), as it promotes bunker, stale playstyle, with little to no improvisation, and that is the core of the problem they, and us, are experiencing currently. Those features will help to some extent, but they will not compensate for the lack of fun this *game mode *lacks. (Labeled that part so that people don’t think I said this game isn’t fun. Talking about game mode only here).

People were crying for new game mode pretty much since BWE1, and if they listened to their playerbase at that time, now we wouldn’t have so much problems. Now they are left with 200-300 people playing this on most populated PvP servers. I don’t even want to know what’s the situation like with other servers.

Working on a new game mode, along with these features, would probably be the best thing they can do for PvP at this moment. Mr.Sharp himself said that he can pull resources from other departments if he finds that’s needed. I’m paraphrasing, but that’s basically what he said in that video, if I remember correctly. Well, now would be your best, and probably last chance to do it.

i dont think anyone changes things for the sake of being different. they delivered a AAA MMO with smooth, responsive ARPG combat. first in the MMO market to do that. to me, thats kind of innovative.

anyway, there’s nothing horrible with the current meta, as long as people take the time to understand it. conquest contains the following roles: bunker, point nuker, bunker/boon killer, roamer, control, support, attrition, and of course mesmer (it’s own role because it does everything). u know roles, right? like in dota: nuker, carry, support, initiator, etc.

so the problem actually lies in the fact that we have specs to rule them all. guard best bunker, d/d ele/thief best roamers, mesmer – necessary, etc. when they take away overpowered builds, the meta could evolve into something really fun with tons of variety.

scrapping everything theyve achieved for TDM may not be the best idea. TDM will have its own meta, and i think we need to work on conquest right now. as i said, there’s nothing wrong with it once u understand the different roles, and once specs are balanced.

that being said, if they keep conquest, if they keep the crappy meta with 5 top specs, then you would be correct, nobody would play.

nerva.7940:

i dont think anyone changes things for the sake of being different. they delivered a AAA MMO with smooth, responsive ARPG combat. first in the MMO market to do that. to me, thats kind of innovative.

That’s why I bolded that out, so you don’t think I was talking about whole game.
I was talking about sPvP aspect only, and they had far better options to take into consideration, instead of conquest mode. As i said, it was fun to play it for a month or so, and it became repetitive not because of lack of map variety…

nerva.7940:

anyway, there’s nothing horrible with the current meta, as long as people take the time to understand it. conquest contains the following roles: bunker, point nuker, bunker/boon killer, roamer, control, support, attrition, and of course mesmer (it’s own role because it does everything). u know roles, right? like in dota: nuker, carry, support, initiator, etc.

so the problem actually lies in the fact that we have specs to rule them all. guard best bunker, d/d ele/thief best roamers, mesmer – necessary, etc. when they take away overpowered builds, the meta could evolve into something really fun with tons of variety.

scrapping everything theyve achieved for TDM may not be the best idea. TDM will have its own meta, and i think we need to work on conquest right now. as i said, there’s nothing wrong with it once u understand the different roles, and once specs are balanced.

that being said, if they keep conquest, if they keep the crappy meta with 5 top specs, then you would be correct, nobody would play.

Bunker guardian was a problem since BWE1. If they haven’t nerfed it till now(well, they did ones, but at that time bunker guardian was unkillable even in 1vs3 situations), I highly doubt they’ll do it in the future, simply because they find it okay to have something like that, and I don’t blame them, because it comes with the game mode like this one.

However, if they want build variety with this game mode, they will either need to nerf it, to place it in the same position with some other bunker builds, or they need to buff some other professions, so that they can be just as good as guardians, but still bring some other utilities on the table. Same goes with burst.

I find the best way to counter that is to design a new game mode. If they could make 4-5 new game modes fro holiday events, I don’t see a problem with making another one, which would even be simpler than those ones at it’s core, though I agree that it would be harder to balance it.

Also, they wouldn’t need to terminate current game mode. Leave it as it is, with a few tweaks here and there. More game modes = more fun with such a nice combat mechanics already implemented.

Just give me an FFA arena. Drop 20 people into a sand pit with 0 obstacles and let us kill each other without rhyme or reason.

Feni.4306:

Just give me an FFA arena. Drop 20 people into a sand pit with 0 obstacles and let us kill each other without rhyme or reason.

And then we would have the same situation as in current hot-join 8vs8.

On a serious note, I was talking about modes which would enhance team work, but at the same time let combat and build systems come to their full potential. For example, 5 vs 5 Team Arenas, with some secondary mechanics, and kill the lord as a main objective would come in handy, definitely.

One more thing. As someone already pointed out, you should make guild ladder system, as there is no point of having a guild currently in PvP, other than having constant team. Guild system need improvement not only in PvP, but this would also solve some problems. Making GvG, pugs, and single player arenas would enhance this game’s PvP by a big margin.

nerva.7940:

one thing is for certain, 8v8 better be gone. the next problem will be the scattering of an already dwindled population when all these new options are given. tourneys, custom arenas, 1v1 team battles. it’s too much. there’s like 500 people playing at any given time.

a good way to start would be JUST:

- solo queue + 5v5 + matchmaking
- custom arenas (for those who want tourneys, let them do it this way)
- abolish official tourneys (what a joke)
- abolish hotjoin
- enforce light punishment for abandoners (this is absolutely crucial)
- 5v5 must absolutely be enforced. this is the only way new players will learn and understand the meta. funneling the majority of the population into the 8v8 mess was a major mistake. allow 8v8 as part of custom arenas for those who want it (it will be nobody)

thats about as far as i see it going with conquest. once people start to enjoy pvp, add a monthly tournament and team (edit: and random team) deathmatch.

little too much riding on this patch. the pvp community has been burned pretty hard by lack of iteration and new content so cant really leave vital things out. hope devs are taking notes.

Signed to all (except abolish hotjoin, since I like to join on friends already playing, just cap it at 5v5) but especially the bold part. Although this sounds mostly like “Hey guys, go play guild wars 1, now revive parts of the pvp structure” to me, which was pretty much all they had to do to begin with.

S H A K U R AS.9536:

Sec thing its Guild laddder/Inwidual ladder. I prefer Guild ladder but we should remmber about smurf “top” players(Somebody is off we care so much so lets play in new guild with 1 guest). Its too easy switch guilds and player base is to small to protect new pple. The only one conclusion on PvP EACH PLAYER should be assigned to 1 guild. I hope its possible and u can back guest system only for PvP. What other pple think about this solution problem of the smurfs?

Another solution could be that the rewards you gain (like rank points, gems, maybe different ranking titles, boxes etc.) are rating-based so that higher rated guilds get more and better rewards. Then there will be no more reason to smurf all the time, like boxes/zkeys-farming in GW1, cause you can practise in custom arenas without to have fear to lose rating and dont need to smurf for this.. I mean, is it fun to get very low rewards by “farming” newbies in a smurf guild all the time (look at free tourneys, are they really make fun to play as a top guild? I dont think so..)

Anyway, i prefer have some ppl smurfing than a silly and senseless player ladder..

Sad to say it but GW2 PvP died a long time ago. :S It’s a shame such a great game is being kitten on I don’t know what world the devs must be in to actually believe they could lead the community on for this long before the game is gone beyond the point of repair lol.

Enokitake.1742:

nerva.7940:

one thing is for certain, 8v8 better be gone. the next problem will be the scattering of an already dwindled population when all these new options are given. tourneys, custom arenas, 1v1 team battles. it’s too much. there’s like 500 people playing at any given time.

a good way to start would be JUST:

- solo queue + 5v5 + matchmaking
- custom arenas (for those who want tourneys, let them do it this way)
- abolish official tourneys (what a joke)
- abolish hotjoin
- enforce light punishment for abandoners (this is absolutely crucial)
- 5v5 must absolutely be enforced. this is the only way new players will learn and understand the meta. funneling the majority of the population into the 8v8 mess was a major mistake. allow 8v8 as part of custom arenas for those who want it (it will be nobody)

thats about as far as i see it going with conquest. once people start to enjoy pvp, add a monthly tournament and team (edit: and random team) deathmatch.

little too much riding on this patch. the pvp community has been burned pretty hard by lack of iteration and new content so cant really leave vital things out. hope devs are taking notes.

Signed to all (except abolish hotjoin, since I like to join on friends already playing, just cap it at 5v5) but especially the bold part. Although this sounds mostly like “Hey guys, go play guild wars 1, now revive parts of the pvp structure” to me, which was pretty much all they had to do to begin with.

you cant have hotjoin and punish leaving. people cant hop in and out of 5v5, period. if you dont punish crap like ragequits, we’ll be in the same spot. hotjoin = hotleaving. needs to be like dota, where you pre-form or pre-pick somehow and you’re locked in for a while, period.

Enokitake.1742:

nerva.7940:

one thing is for certain, 8v8 better be gone. the next problem will be the scattering of an already dwindled population when all these new options are given. tourneys, custom arenas, 1v1 team battles. it’s too much. there’s like 500 people playing at any given time.

a good way to start would be JUST:

- solo queue + 5v5 + matchmaking
- custom arenas (for those who want tourneys, let them do it this way)
- abolish official tourneys (what a joke)
- abolish hotjoin
- enforce light punishment for abandoners (this is absolutely crucial)
- 5v5 must absolutely be enforced. this is the only way new players will learn and understand the meta. funneling the majority of the population into the 8v8 mess was a major mistake. allow 8v8 as part of custom arenas for those who want it (it will be nobody)

thats about as far as i see it going with conquest. once people start to enjoy pvp, add a monthly tournament and team (edit: and random team) deathmatch.

little too much riding on this patch. the pvp community has been burned pretty hard by lack of iteration and new content so cant really leave vital things out. hope devs are taking notes.

Signed to all (except abolish hotjoin, since I like to join on friends already playing, just cap it at 5v5) but especially the bold part. Although this sounds mostly like “Hey guys, go play guild wars 1, now revive parts of the pvp structure” to me, which was pretty much all they had to do to begin with.

you cant have hotjoin and punish leaving. people cant hop in and out of 5v5, period. if you dont punish crap like ragequits, we’ll be in the same spot. hotjoin = hotleaving. needs to be like dota, where you pre-form or pre-pick somehow and you’re locked in for a while, period.

Oni.5429:

Your post said absolutely nothing, Jonathan. This is almost identical to the blog post, a huge wall of nothing but a ’’soon’’

as usual jon makes it his virtue to be incompetent in literally every single aspect imaginable

tiko.9206:

Another solution could be that the rewards you gain (like rank points, gems, maybe different ranking titles, boxes etc.) are rating-based so that higher rated guilds get more and better rewards. Then there will be no more reason to smurf all the time, like boxes/zkeys-farming in GW1, cause you can practise in custom arenas without to have fear to lose rating and dont need to smurf for this.. I mean, is it fun to get very low rewards by “farming” newbies in a smurf guild all the time (look at free tourneys, are they really make fun to play as a top guild? I dont think so..)

Anyway, i prefer have some ppl smurfing than a silly and senseless player ladder..

Maybe, but the problem is so many pple left the game i see it on my own guild, but coming ur idea:

Ratting: less than 900 – glory only for winner
900-1100 – bronze boxes winner / losser only glory
1100-1200 – Silver boxes, more glor winner / losser bronze boxes + glory
1200 + vs less than 1200 – gold boxes+ glory for winner / silver boxes for losser
1200+ vs 1200+gold boxes+ glory + aditional reward(30 gems for winner) / gold boxes for losser

Reward should depence from higer rank guild/team.

Free tournaments can stay, u just need to remove teams, so its solo que or dual.

Paid tournaments are not necessary because we’ll have normal ladder.

Ayraswag.3761:

Sad to say it but GW2 PvP died a long time ago. :S It’s a shame such a great game is being kitten on I don’t know what world the devs must be in to actually believe they could lead the community on for this long before the game is gone beyond the point of repair lol.

Yea Spvp Died instantly 2months after release.It’s a shame because i really like the game mechanics. Anet Keeps trying to shove conquest pvp down our throats. I don’t think they have what it takes to make this game a esport. They continue to try to buy time but most people have already lost its patience. They had a previous game to learn from yet they totally scrapped it. I don’t know what they were thinking. Some people try to forgive them because certain previous mmos didn’t have certain aspects of pvp implemented. Like wow for example which came out in 2004. What people don’t realize it’s 2013 gaming is more mainstream and when anet said they are trying to make this game a esport you better at least have the basics laid out……. Ladders and rankings at least.

Just because games before didn’t implement certain pvp features it doesn’t excuse anet. Imagine if at launch we had least ladders and rankings it would be a lot better of than what it is now. I just don’t get it….

I mean come on do you guys find this entertaining?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUB677OVIus

S H A K U R AS.9536:

Maybe, but the problem is so many pple left the game i see it on my own guild, but coming ur idea:

Ratting: less than 900 – glory only for winner
900-1100 – bronze boxes winner / losser only glory
1100-1200 – Silver boxes, more glor winner / losser bronze boxes + glory
1200 + vs less than 1200 – gold boxes+ glory for winner / silver boxes for losser
1200+ vs 1200+gold boxes+ glory + aditional reward(30 gems for winner) / gold boxes for losser

Reward should depence from higer rank guild/team.

Free tournaments can stay, u just need to remove teams, so its solo que or dual.

Paid tournaments are not necessary because we’ll have normal ladder.

Yes, sth like that is what I meant. And as I said, there only can be created new titles, for winning matches over rating 1200 e.g., that would be titles/ranks that REALLY say sth about the player’s skill like champ rank in GW1.
Instead of paid tourneys with only 8 teams in one tourney and the losing teams are out instantly, there should be a tourney with swiss system. ( http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/AT ) Maybe more often than 3 times per day, each hour one during primetime, but this assumes enough teams playing active, and, like u already said, thats the next problem… I still hope that they decide to change from player to guild ladder and let the current tournament system go through their minds again…

Pride N Greed.8106:

I mean come on do you guys find this entertaining?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUB677OVIus

My god the effects were huge back then, it’s like everything went miniscule. Not to mention that ridiculously oversized well from the necro.

Remove Hotjoin
Replace with Custom Arenas

Matchmaking queue (solo/premade) for Free* tournaments
Normal games, NOT RANKED

Matchmaking queue (solo/premade) for Paid* tournaments
RANKED GAMES, to get dat 2800 elo

remove the requirement of 40 players to begin tournament, instead, do 1 team vs. 1 team for best out of 3 maps. SO SIMPLE ANET, fix your game or its gg

Thanks for the response Jon, all this stuff is what we all want.

The key element as you’re getting from what people are saying is the when.

We needed this stuff months ago, Arenanet has been focusing on PVE stuff for the last few months and it shows.

Time to take all those devs away from PVE and really push up the PVP side of things.

Hijack the entire programming team, **** PVE, **** dungeons and events, and get cracking on PVP which really is the key to the game

Seriously, finish it off this weekend, roll it all out on Monday. Break every schedule to do it

Just wanted to add my voice as saying the 8v8 should be reverted back to 5v5 for Hot Join. I feel like it’s harder to learn how to improve at a specific role that you would play in a 5v5 tourney when at any given time you’re fighting against larger groups than what you’d face in a tourney.

I mean, people who came into the game with Dedicated 5 man teams who’ve been doing tourney’s since day 1 get a ton of practice and that’s great but there needs to be a way for others to learn those roles so that new teams can form and improve and become a factor.

Feni.4306:

Pride N Greed.8106:

I mean come on do you guys find this entertaining?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUB677OVIus

My god the effects were huge back then, it’s like everything went miniscule. Not to mention that ridiculously oversized well from the necro.

Lol, watch at 0:26. He says (translated): " With GW1 PvP we had a high reputation, but with GW2 our PvP will be much better." looking at current state of pvp Nice joke

nerva.7940:

i dont think anyone changes things for the sake of being different. they delivered a AAA MMO with smooth, responsive ARPG combat. first in the MMO market to do that. to me, thats kind of innovative.

Its a top-class mmo for sure, but certainly not the first to implement ARPG combat- and actually GW2 largely plays much like a traditional tab-targeter. Tera or Dragon Nest (released before GW2) have full-blown smooth and responsive ARPG combat. Try playing an archer class in one of those games, quite a high skill cap.

nerva.7940:

if they keep conquest, if they keep the crappy meta with 5 top specs, then you would be correct, nobody would play.

People will still play, it is just stale to have to play the same thing all the time. Also your point about the specs is very true. If you are doing tournies you can tell if the other team is a premade just by what classes they have. You may as well just leave the tourny at that point because you know how the game will play out.

Essentially, we have one game mode with 5 truely viable specs-and you need one of each on a team. Pug vs pug is bearable, which is why hotjoin can be fun (although the 8vs8 format there is a detractor). So strangly on the surface GW2 spvp has a lot of flexibility, but you may as well just have those 5 specs hard coded and no other classes as there is only the one game mode.

I wouldn’t say TERA’s combat is smooth. It’s free aim but it still suffers from being stuck in animations and has attacks that force you to travel a specific way and distance. Despite being tab-to-target, GW2’s combat feels more fluid for every class than TERA does.

Pride N Greed.8106:

I mean come on do you guys find this entertaining? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUB677OVIus

Nice find, marketing BS at its finest.

I assume to make that video they had to have the ability to make a custom match, and that isn’t even in the game 1.5 years later. And people wonder why Anet gets so much hate every time they copy and paste their list of promises.

Spvp draws like 150 consistent stream viewers and paid tournaments can barely even find 40 people per region to queue up.

Anet can’t even develop or give us a date on a blog post… good luck with that whole esport thing.

Vena.8436:

This development cycle is par for the course in GW history. GW1 PvP, which many of reference but don’t seem to actually remember in any light at launch, was a mess. The much flaunted GvG was completely locked off for most people behind having to farm HoH for the Sigil. HoH was gating itself off of rank and had some of the worst map designs in the game (and still does). The entirety of PvP was itself walled off from just about everyone until they farmed 100000 Ettin in NKP and CapSiging those random spawn bosses that held your elites. And all that your average nobody had to play was really RA and TA.

It took a quarter of a year to get Balth Faction added to the game, it took several months more to get the kitten thing balanced and rewarding (and you still had to grind basic PvP in order to be competitive in PvP).

…..

The popularity of GW1 PvP shot up with the first world championship. TL;DR, a (b2p being a rather helpful feature) game can become popular long after launch. Pretty sure LoL took about a year to actually get anyway too, though feel free to correct me.

That’s so not true. GW PvP was popular the entire lifetime of the game.

First off, your talking only about GvG, which yes was long term the most popular and started relatively unpopular (mostly due to a stale meta where most the team was dispellers/debuffers/etc), but the PvP did not start there.

RA and CA were by far the most popular at release. At any time of the day you could go to the PvP lobby and there would be DOZENS of districts full of players, queues would be literally instant to join a game. This was true months and months in to the game.

And that state of the game was far better than GW2’s state of the game right now. RA and CA instead of hotjoin/tournament would be a huge improvement. Then they could work on a tournament system for daily/weekly/monthlys, but having them as primary PvP content? No way, it’s too based on luck of your opponents rather than skill.

Also faction was in game for PvP from the start, hell thats how you unlocked PvP skills/weapons/runes, even in beta. Sure they patched it later on to include PvE stuff etc, but acting like it wasn’t in game at all was a lie.

And I agree, LoL took over a year before it started getting popular. But the difference is they built the game from the bottom up, not the top down like GW2 is trying to do. We SHOULD be starting at RA/CA with multiple game modes to get the players. Yet we’re starting at… conquest mode tournaments? Imagine if LoL tried to add ranked teams/tournaments/spectator/custom arenas before they even had the unranked/ranked/solo/premade matchmaking in?

That’s the biggest problem right now. Theres no stable way for players to start playing and work their way up. Hotjoin doesn’t work in this type of game and teaches nothing, and theres no way for new players to progress in to paids. Hence losing players daily.

Every day I wonder why they are ignoring their hugely successful formula from GW1…. People started RA/CA, then moved to HoH, then GvG. The game would not have succeded if they started at GvG, proven by how unpopular the mode was at the beginning, and how it raised in popularity as time went on…

Jacobin.8509:

Pride N Greed.8106:

I mean come on do you guys find this entertaining? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUB677OVIus

Nice find, marketing BS at its finest.

I assume to make that video they had to have the ability to make a custom match, and that isn’t even in the game 1.5 years later. And people wonder why Anet gets so much hate every time they copy and paste their list of promises.

Spvp draws like 150 consistent stream viewers and paid tournaments can barely even find 40 people per region to queue up.

Anet can’t even develop or give us a date on a blog post… good luck with that whole esport thing.

Yea i still wonder what they did in the time period of those videos as far as the pvp aspect. I bet they were working more on pve lmao! here is the 2nd part to the esl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB8z_2OJE70

THIS IS ANETS INTERVIEW ON GW2 PVP and being a ESPORT with J.Sharp. 1.5 years old and still no progress:(

They dug a hole so deep i dont think they can get out of it. I would like to be proven wrong tho!

P.S I think J-Sharp is playing that elementalist if I’m not mistaken :P

Jest.9276:

Just wanted to add my voice as saying the 8v8 should be reverted back to 5v5 for Hot Join. I feel like it’s harder to learn how to improve at a specific role that you would play in a 5v5 tourney when at any given time you’re fighting against larger groups than what you’d face in a tourney.

I mean, people who came into the game with Dedicated 5 man teams who’ve been doing tourney’s since day 1 get a ton of practice and that’s great but there needs to be a way for others to learn those roles so that new teams can form and improve and become a factor.

Problem with 5v5 hotjoin is it’s HORRIBLE with the “autobalance” feature and how people could leave and join at any time. Losing a single player has a much bigger affect on the team than in 8v8.

ZenoSpyridon.1396:

Jest.9276:

Just wanted to add my voice as saying the 8v8 should be reverted back to 5v5 for Hot Join. I feel like it’s harder to learn how to improve at a specific role that you would play in a 5v5 tourney when at any given time you’re fighting against larger groups than what you’d face in a tourney.

I mean, people who came into the game with Dedicated 5 man teams who’ve been doing tourney’s since day 1 get a ton of practice and that’s great but there needs to be a way for others to learn those roles so that new teams can form and improve and become a factor.

Problem with 5v5 hotjoin is it’s HORRIBLE with the “autobalance” feature and how people could leave and join at any time. Losing a single player has a much bigger affect on the team than in 8v8.

Being 8v8 doesn’t fix that problem though. It’s not even slightly a bandaid actually because raising the numbers by 3 players doesn’t eliminate the handicap you get when people leave because they don’t leave in small numbers they leave in groups of 2 and 3.

People quitting early is a separate problem entirely.

Jest.9276:

ZenoSpyridon.1396:

Jest.9276:

Just wanted to add my voice as saying the 8v8 should be reverted back to 5v5 for Hot Join. I feel like it’s harder to learn how to improve at a specific role that you would play in a 5v5 tourney when at any given time you’re fighting against larger groups than what you’d face in a tourney.

I mean, people who came into the game with Dedicated 5 man teams who’ve been doing tourney’s since day 1 get a ton of practice and that’s great but there needs to be a way for others to learn those roles so that new teams can form and improve and become a factor.

Problem with 5v5 hotjoin is it’s HORRIBLE with the “autobalance” feature and how people could leave and join at any time. Losing a single player has a much bigger affect on the team than in 8v8.

Being 8v8 doesn’t fix that problem though. It’s not even slightly a bandaid actually because raising the numbers by 3 players doesn’t eliminate the handicap you get when people leave because they don’t leave in small numbers they leave in groups of 2 and 3.

People quitting early is a separate problem entirely.

You misunderstand what I was saying.

I don’t think 8v8 fixes the problem at all, that’s not what I was saying, I prefer they remove 8v8 tbh.

The problem is the “hotjoin” mode period. It doesnt work in 8v8. It works even worse in 5v5. The way points are rewarded doesnt work. The way people are allowed to leave at any time doesnt work. Autobalance doesnt work. The way it doesnt reward teamwork at all doesnt work. The builds that are effective there are limited and not ideal. The way winning doesnt mean a thing doesnt work.

Hotjoin is reminiscent of a Conquest FPS game – you browse and join servers the same exact way, you can join and leave and autobalance the same way. Except the game mechanics are nothing like a FPS and numbers of players mean more in a RPG-based game. Even in a FPS, conquest mode is very dependent on the game mechanics backing it up. Which GW2’s mechanics do not.

ZenoSpyridon.1396:

You misunderstand what I was saying.

I don’t think 8v8 fixes the problem at all, that’s not what I was saying, I prefer they remove 8v8 tbh.

The problem is the “hotjoin” mode period. It doesnt work in 8v8. It works even worse in 5v5. The way points are rewarded doesnt work. The way people are allowed to leave at any time doesnt work. Autobalance doesnt work. The way it doesnt reward teamwork at all doesnt work. The builds that are effective there are limited and not ideal. The way winning doesnt mean a thing doesnt work.

Hotjoin is reminiscent of a Conquest FPS game – you browse and join servers the same exact way, you can join and leave and autobalance the same way. Except the game mechanics are nothing like a FPS and numbers of players mean more in a RPG-based game. Even in a FPS, conquest mode is very dependent on the game mechanics backing it up. Which GW2’s mechanics do not.

I don’t feel like it works that poorly in a 5v5. Certainly no worse than it is in 8v8. Leaving/Autobalance is an issue certainly, but it’s an issue in any PUG PvP mode. The actual game type doesn’t change that. People who are losing badly tend to leave because it’s a waste of time. Doesn’t matter if it’s DM, CTF, Conquest, or any other possible game type. Being down on numbers hurts the team. Putting a CD on joining games after a quit is the only dependable way to persuade people not to leave. The Autobalance should be removed along with the browser and people should just queue up and be put into games automatically. A lot of people hate getting tossed into a losing game but that’s the most efficient method.

ZenoSpyridon.1396:

The problem is the “hotjoin” mode period. It doesnt work in 8v8. It works even worse in 5v5. The way points are rewarded doesnt work. The way people are allowed to leave at any time doesnt work. Autobalance doesnt work. The way it doesnt reward teamwork at all doesnt work. The builds that are effective there are limited and not ideal. The way winning doesnt mean a thing doesnt work.

You can’t stop people from leaving a game.

Also, hot-join supports a much larger variety of builds than tournaments do. I can dominate in hot-join with a number of different builds (precisely because there is no structure to the gameplay), unlike in tPvP where usually only one build is viable for each class (and not even all the classes are viable).

JonathanSharp.7094:

• New player experience/teaching the game better. We want players of all experience levels to enjoy the game, not just the hardcore. We’ll talk more about this stuff later, but we want to make sure all players enjoy the game. Custom Arenas will help here as well, because players can find arenas where they feel comfortable, and play the game with the same players every day while they learn the game, etc.

And that’s where I lost my last ounce of interest for this game. The problem is not getting to it. That bit is really easy. That problem is that the PvP you’ve created in this game is boring and two-dimensional. The actual fighting is awesome and the mechanics are solid, but being forced to play a game mode that removes focus from the interesting combat and instead focuses on a half-baked capture mechanic and a whole lot of mobility just makes it boring to a whole lot of people.

Are there some that like it? Certainly! Is it many? Nope. And you can see that very clearly. And you already knew this, because we were all telling you what a horrible idea it was back in beta.

The problem is not introducing new players to PvP. The problem is that the system you’re introducing them to is not very interesting or entertaining, and will only appeal to a very small subset of MMO players. You’ve made a game mode that people do not, universally, enjoy. That’s on you. We tried to warn you and give you constructive feedback, from the word go. But YOU chose that route. And now you’re paying the price.

It’s still not too late to focus development on actually making the PvP fun and pleasurable to play, but it’s not going to happen as long as you keep you hands over your ears while manically repeating “5man cap-n-hold is fun, 5man cap-n-hold is fun, 5man cap-n-hold is fun, 5man cap-n-hold is fun, 5man cap-n-hold is fun!”.

The PvP you’ve made does not appeal to a very large group of players. It’s not a question of exposure or introduction. It’s a question of bad design and stubborn arrogance.

We need separated solo queue and premade queue.
Without this being implemented, we are losing crushing majority of tPvPers in both free and paid turnaments.

Top priority.

Don’t you think a 1v1 Paid Team Setup will rock ??

It’s much easiert to get 2 even ranked teams versus each other that in a 8team pool.
+the entry fees would be lower , and so the reward, but this will be absolutely fine i think.

And about the “rant” that the entry prices are too high, guys this game is f2p after the inital purchase , in other games there is a monthly fee most of the time.

If you dont want to spend RL money, you can always do a little bit PvE / WvW to grind the needed money. Or play the TP if you know how to do it.

Dont want it rendered free ivis, just reduced to a cost of 3 tickets from 5.

The PvP community is dying day by day and this is a fact.
It’s not sure how many ppl will be left till the February patch and what will happen if this patch will not fulfill the expectations.

The current game mode cannot hold the ppl into the game and this is also a fact. It is stated here at these forums.

Anet should do something fast in order to keep the players with hope. This something must promote competitive play and must be a step towards “esporting”.

Some ideas are the ladder + match making, the solo Qs and premade Qs, I really don’t know how hard it is to be coded and implemented in the game, but this must be full priority.

Also there are too many QPs accumulated, maybe it is time for a monthly tournament?
What about the event of this month to be a PvP focused event?
Monthly tournament, public beta test of other game modes, double fame rewards?

The PvP community cannot wait anymore for a post here or a blog post, we need an in game change to keep us hot until the February patch. I strongly believe that we will appreciate a change in PvP even if this change will come with some bugs. It’s better to eliminate bugs than eliminate a community.

Let’s try to keep this thread up in the front page.

First all sorry for my english

To me the 2 majors issues are the lack of a a good ladder system and lack of other PVP modes, is simple, PVP conquest is not funniest/competitive enough to be the only PVP mode, is something the the pvp community know and arena.net should be know.

Have PVP conquest how the major PVP mode in GW2 was a bad decission, when area.net said that conquest was the only PVP mode the community had a lot of complaits for lack of modes, and arena.net said that it will be fine, that will be lot of fun, competitive, try defend conquest etc.. well was fun in a short time but not much competitive, and after 4 months the PVP is dying day after day.

My thoughts is that arena.net should react to this , is a fact that conquest mode is not liked by the community at least how the “only pvp mode”, they are tryining promote the game to e-sport adding custom arenas to improve conquest mode like they did with payment tournaments, but they will fail again for one simple reason:

- They are trying to improve a e-sport community without have a great core pvp community, only the profesional teams or greatest guild will pay for custom arena.net, “normal players” will not waste real money to buy a server for a week because they dont have a reason to do that. Result, the normal players will leave the game to lack of other PVP modes , and with a good core community game wont be more competitive players and the currently ones will left the game for the lack of new challenges, you only have to see pay tournaments right now with 200 players only.

Since the first info of PVP in GW2 when you read the Arena.net post they seem blind to make GW2 a E-sport, not to do a great PVP game, only to be a E-Sport, all updates is to improve GW2 to a E-Sport no to make a great PVP like was GW1, the issues is that you must have to make a great PVP and build a strong community, and when you have this try to bring the game to E-Sport community thx to community.

Arena.net is doing this at reverse, first E-Sport without have a great community, the result is that all updates are to improve E-Sport teams that dont exist, while the pvp community lack of great PVP modes and simple left the game.

They had great PVP modes like GvG , AH or TA in GW1, modes that the PVP community always liked and build a great reputation to the orignal GW to the best PVP rpg in Market. The great arena.net mistake was throwing this to the garbage to make “BG WoW mode”, yes i dont like compare GW2 to wow but is a great example how to had great and original gameplay in GW1 and change for a simple “capture mode”, and the simple proof of this is in the forum how the PVP community is unhappy, and the lack of players in tournament modes.

The only issue who had GW1 is that was hard to new players start PVP because the great grade of competitive, this is a fact too, but it had a easy fix, make 2 modes like LoL, normal mode and ranked mode.

Normal mode: Can join alone or with friendss in a party thx to a matchmaking like LoL, win Glory and had fun while you are learning to play or simple want to play PVP mode without “pressure”.

Ranked mode: Register a team to join ranked mode party or join alone like ranked in LoL and win more Glory points, gems after tournaments and of course win positions or lose in a ranked ladder.

Make this while you had great PVP Modes like AH , GVG or TA, only 3 modes that the GW pvp commuinty always loved, give it variety to the community withotu fragment it, my thought is that if Arena.net still trust blindy in “Conquest PVP Mode like GW2 PVP core” the official dead of GW2 PVP will be soon.

ZenoSpyridon.1396:

The problem is the “hotjoin” mode period. It doesnt work in 8v8. It works even worse in 5v5. The way points are rewarded doesnt work. The way people are allowed to leave at any time doesnt work. Autobalance doesnt work. The way it doesnt reward teamwork at all doesnt work. The builds that are effective there are limited and not ideal. The way winning doesnt mean a thing doesnt work.
.

Totally disagree with you that these problems are due to “hotjoin”. Hotjoin is one of the best systems GW2 has compared to how other mmo BGs work. All these problems of people leaving etc are still there in other mmos with different systems only they are rampant with botters, afkers, pre-made’s farming pugs, and gear- and level-gaps, as well.

Devs, I and I think many others implore you, leave the solid spvp base you have made as is and spend resources to give us some more game modes. Don’t fiddle around too much, give the gamers more game and leave the frills that you seem to have been hung-up on for the past 6 months for after you have developed a robust and diverse set of fun spvp games (not just different maps, different modes!).

For example fellow gamers, what would you like more: custom servers or a new game mode to play? Which of those do you think would get people revved up to play? Even the new map got me exicted! A new game mode in spvp is almost like a whole new game…..

Izzy was awesome, he would’ve fixed all their problems.

ZenoSpyridon.1396:

That’s so not true. GW PvP was popular the entire lifetime of the game.

First off, your talking only about GvG, which yes was long term the most popular and started relatively unpopular (mostly due to a stale meta where most the team was dispellers/debuffers/etc), but the PvP did not start there.

RA and CA were by far the most popular at release. At any time of the day you could go to the PvP lobby and there would be DOZENS of districts full of players, queues would be literally instant to join a game. This was true months and months in to the game.

And that state of the game was far better than GW2’s state of the game right now. RA and CA instead of hotjoin/tournament would be a huge improvement. Then they could work on a tournament system for daily/weekly/monthlys, but having them as primary PvP content? No way, it’s too based on luck of your opponents rather than skill.

Also faction was in game for PvP from the start, hell thats how you unlocked PvP skills/weapons/runes, even in beta. Sure they patched it later on to include PvE stuff etc, but acting like it wasn’t in game at all was a lie.

And I agree, LoL took over a year before it started getting popular. But the difference is they built the game from the bottom up, not the top down like GW2 is trying to do. We SHOULD be starting at RA/CA with multiple game modes to get the players. Yet we’re starting at… conquest mode tournaments? Imagine if LoL tried to add ranked teams/tournaments/spectator/custom arenas before they even had the unranked/ranked/solo/premade matchmaking in?

That’s the biggest problem right now. Theres no stable way for players to start playing and work their way up. Hotjoin doesn’t work in this type of game and teaches nothing, and theres no way for new players to progress in to paids. Hence losing players daily.

Every day I wonder why they are ignoring their hugely successful formula from GW1…. People started RA/CA, then moved to HoH, then GvG. The game would not have succeded if they started at GvG, proven by how unpopular the mode was at the beginning, and how it raised in popularity as time went on…

Quote for truth.
It’s better to have more “simple” game modes at release and build the game from them. Tournaments aren’t a bad idea, the problem is they made them the first serious PvP mode and that’s just wrong.

Conquest is EPICLY borring i wanna shoot my self i cant play more then 1 game per day is killing me INside

Rezz.8019:

Izzy was awesome, he would’ve fixed all their problems.

I think not. Izzy had his weakness too, but he has created GvG and HA.
And when he see the heir, he may cry.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Every day I wonder why they are ignoring their hugely successful formula from GW1…. People started RA/CA, then moved to HoH, then GvG. The game would not have succeded if they started at GvG, proven by how unpopular the mode was at the beginning, and how it raised in popularity as time went on…

Totally agree, can’t understand. There was everything and they ‘v just forget all the brilliant stuff they had.
Can’t understand.

I agree to many here, biggest change i am waiting for is new modes, I for one loved random arena and team arena. Not that I say you should exactly port them but other game modes like the elimination type of those arenas need to be implemented. Having only one game mode at all gets rather boring after a while.

Gele.2048:

i hate the conquest stile whic brings tanky playing and is boring as kitten i whant cap the flag death match and moust of all RANK i wanna see rank elo sistem COMON they put this kitten primitive pvp sistem in game they develop 5 years what did they miss the leage of legends sistem and WoW whit the arenas , do they live under rock or something .

After deciphering this, I have to ask… have you played WoW arena system? For over 12 months that crap has been so freaking unbalanced and unfair. They have a matchmaking system, that won’t even match you properly. Unfortunately they also have tier levels of PvP gear which doesn’t make it even playing field at all until you get to 2k+ rating, that is of course, if you can even make it that far. If they’re going to base PvP off ANY game, I strongly suggest not using WoW.

Though, if anything, people need to be patient and not so demanding. It will happen when it happens, and getting on the dev’s cases won’t push the fact through any faster. They’re probably doing the best they can, and if you can’t be patient then perhaps gaming isn’t the hobby for you -shrugs-

-casually waits for the nerdrage to begin-

I really would like to know why we have to wait for new things to be implemented?

Why ArenaNet is not doing something as immediatelly reaction in order to split premades and pug groups. There is so much ideas how to do that in current system and even that without any kind of MM system, that would move the game to the right direction.

so why there is no “teporary” solution being implemented?

Idk how people can be dissatisfied with Johnathen’s post. There’s new stuff being implemented, hello 1 round matches anyone?

I mean… kitten guys, the february patch isnt even close to being out yet. cool ur kittens.

“There isnt anything we didnt already know”

A: No there’s plenty of stuff we didnt know in that post, a lot of it was suggested but none confirmed and written. rread the kitten post

Was “cool” 6 month ago when game released with announced feature “spvp e-sport”
See the nuance ?

Today still nothing except beta pvp mode.

HappinessFactory.4910:

Idk how people can be dissatisfied with Johnathen’s post. There’s new stuff being implemented, hello 1 round matches anyone?

I mean… kitten guys, the february patch isnt even close to being out yet. cool ur kittens.

“There isnt anything we didnt already know”

A: No there’s plenty of stuff we didnt know in that post, a lot of it was suggested but none confirmed and written. rread the kitten post

still it doesnt mean that they can´t do something really quick as temporary solution..

or do you want to wait till maybe Feb / march (date wasn´t confirmed) and see the changes? what if they will not be that good? what if till that time playerbase will be so small that it doesnt make sense anymore?

Aragiel.6132:

HappinessFactory.4910:

Idk how people can be dissatisfied with Johnathen’s post. There’s new stuff being implemented, hello 1 round matches anyone?

I mean… kitten guys, the february patch isnt even close to being out yet. cool ur kittens.

“There isnt anything we didnt already know”

A: No there’s plenty of stuff we didnt know in that post, a lot of it was suggested but none confirmed and written. rread the kitten post

still it doesnt mean that they can´t do something really quick as temporary solution..

or do you want to wait till maybe Feb / march (date wasn´t confirmed) and see the changes? what if they will not be that good? what if till that time playerbase will be so small that it doesnt make sense anymore?

Actually, what prevents them from doing something “really quick” is that all of these changes require coding that can cause bugs. Remember that temp fix for WvW’s culling issue? Screwed things up even more so they reverted. The only reason that was even attempted is because they don’t have the proper amount of people in-house to test culling fixes themselves.

Another thing to keep in mind is, there is NO sub fee. So there’s no harm in things taking awhile to be fixed because no one is being charged for access to the game. There’s also absolutely nothing preventing players who’ve taken a break from coming back. They just have to launch the client, patch up, and test it out. They like it, they keep playing, they don’t, they stop until the next patch.