Guild Wars 2

See even this guy pulls random number out of kitten and came up with same thinking as I did, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-GvG-situation
15v15 20v20.
But I think it should be 8-20 and you issue challenges and make agreements on how many players. I think more points should be awarded to bigger fights too, because more factors to consider so more difficult to win.

Also, it wasn’t GvG, but when GW1 added that faction fighting, a lot more people involved than standard 8v8, I found much enjoyment in that and I’m sure many others did as well. So don’t be looking narrow minded and thinking 5v5 and 8v8 is the only way… It wasn’t a WvW either, I cant remember but I think it was 12v12 and didn’t seem bad at all, it was a lot of fun.

GW2 I’m sure is bigger than GW1 at that time, and I’m sure theres a lot more massive guilds that are active than what GW1 had. Hence it can support a large fights 8-20.

I’m glad Stronghold is in PvP. I don’t play much WvW because when the fights aren’t about the biggest zerg, they are about the best gear. Neither are conducive to a competitive PvP environment.

Competitive GW2 is designed for 5 v 5. The more people you add above 5, the more casual it becomes.

The solution is clear: A 5v5 mode for competitiveness, and an XvX mode where instead of making npc soldiers, you can spawn in more team members to help; but they’re cheap disposable teammates with no runes, amulets or sigils.

I’m very glad it’s 5v5 instead of anything bigger. On paper stronghold sounds very awesome. I don’t care much for WvW but this sounds like a 5v5 WvW with conquest mixed in. I can dig it.

If it doesn’t to you because of 6 less players on a map then stick with WvW zerg fiesta.

Atherakhia.4086:

fine tuning

“fine tuning”
by that i guess you mean the completely op stats you have in wvw due to pve gear. sure, it’s nice to have 50%+ critchance at 200% ferocity while still maintaining 3k toughness but it’s not competitive. wvw has the worst balance i have seen in years due to that and i would not wish this upon any competitive pvp format. not even talking about stat combinations that fist any tiny bit of balance that’s left to death.
also most pvp players don’t want to bother grinding pve gear. it’s fine as it is. pvp get’s a new gamemode and the wvw crowd can zerg and roflstomp each other to oblivion.
wvw is only good for leveling new toons if you’re not good enough to farm the tomes in pvp. it has nothing to do with srs pvp.

I can already see that average queue time if that game mode is at least 8v8 and only premades are allowed.

5v5 is just more of the same, so it’s not going to pull any more players in to pvp. In fact, if it’s 5v5, it’s just another boring map with slightly different mechanics and not enough people to be doing things on the map.

GvG in GW2 needs at least 10 players to make viable splits and to overcome bunkers, and personally I’d prefer a larger map with 15 or 20 (but minimum 10) so that you can play various splits and have much more tactics involved, and designed so zerging as a full 15 fails every time.

Also, current pvp build variety is very restricted, which excludes a huge number of players and builds and leads to less interest from the player base. Restricting the maximum players to 5 further reduces tactics, playstyles and limits the game mode.

Another game has been running 80v80 battles for years which involve a lot more splitting, tactics and co ordination that anything seen in the twitch reaction fest that is GW2 5v5 combat.

5v5 isn’t guild v guild, it’s just spvp again dressed up. You can dress up a dog and call it a horse, but it’s still a dog.

Victory.2879:

GvG in GW2 needs at least 10 players to make viable splits and to overcome bunkers, and personally I’d prefer a larger map with 15 or 20 (but minimum 10) so that you can play various splits and have much more tactics involved, and designed so zerging as a full 15 fails every time.

I would say that bunkers would be rather useless in a mode that will only end when a specific NPC is killed tbh, seeing as the bunkers lack the damage needed to stop people from killing said NPC.

Bunkers works well in order to hold cap points. You will not hold cap points in Stronghold.

Set up engi and guard bunker on NPC and assume any heals affect the NPC. Ends up 5 v2 at your NPC and your 3 have a free go at their NPC.

Not quite so useless, in fact if it’s 5v5 it could become quite hard to kill the NPC at all.

In fact, two bunker turret engi’s could give the 5 man team quite a hard time in even living, never mind killing the NPC.

Just to reiterate my main point: 5v5 isn’t a new game mode, it’s just another spvp map with some gimmicks thrown on it.

What does size have to do with if it is a new game mode or not?

Are you also going to claim that Courtyard and Legacy of the Foefire are the same game mode because both of them are 5v5?

Victory.2879:

5v5 isn’t guild v guild, it’s just spvp again dressed up. You can dress up a dog and call it a horse, but it’s still a dog.

Few years ago we had 8v8 and it was the only gvg we had. Now we have those wvwers who love zerging claiming otherwise.

Stronghold won’t fail! That’s just silly! It’ll just be thuper casual PvP just like conquest! It’ll just be another PvP game mode where the primary objective isn’t to PvP! Anet plz arenas!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

posted in wrong thread.

lordkrall.7241:

Victory.2879:

GvG in GW2 needs at least 10 players to make viable splits and to overcome bunkers, and personally I’d prefer a larger map with 15 or 20 (but minimum 10) so that you can play various splits and have much more tactics involved, and designed so zerging as a full 15 fails every time.

I would say that bunkers would be rather useless in a mode that will only end when a specific NPC is killed tbh, seeing as the bunkers lack the damage needed to stop people from killing said NPC.

Bunkers works well in order to hold cap points. You will not hold cap points in Stronghold.

Not unless theres something you can bunker. They could make generators/supplies nondestructable but rather decappable and capable, and having a bunker on that area prevents the decap of the supplies.

If they don’t use supplies, they can use autoaiming treb that is not destructible, but to make it stop hitting your team you gotta decap it and cap it to help you instead of hurt you.

Plenty of ways they can make bunkers useful, and these are just some ideas and ways how.

it’s probably going to be 10 players. 15 would be too messy for an esport.

And NO, it won’t fail… It will create tons of new competitive guilds.

Flyphish.6398:

Competitive GW2 is designed for 5 v 5. The more people you add above 5, the more casual it becomes.

Basically this.

Btw stronghold map (from trailer prospective, there are 2 scenes) seems to be really big

rotten.9753:

Victory.2879:

5v5 isn’t guild v guild, it’s just spvp again dressed up. You can dress up a dog and call it a horse, but it’s still a dog.

Few years ago we had 8v8 and it was the only gvg we had. Now we have those wvwers who love zerging claiming otherwise.

+1

I don’t know if I’d call this GvG. It looks more like an attempt to bring one of the most popular eSportz genres – MOBA – into GW2.

Mouseheart.8672:

I don’t know if I’d call this GvG. It looks more like an attempt to bring one of the most popular eSportz genres – MOBA – into GW2.

I would say that it looks way more like GvG than the BvB we currently have in-game.

Dear OP and other GvGers

Anet loves us spvpers, not you.

Nyaah

8v8 worked in gw1 due to map design and game mechanics, and was truely great fun- it’s what kept me playing gw1 for years (along with HoH and Ft Aspenwood for some laughs).

I’m not sure Stronghold will be pure enough GvG for the purist pvp’rs, but will wait to see what it’s like before deciding whether it’s something worth playing.

I don’t know where everyone gets GvG from. From what official stuff I’ve seen, it is that GvG will be coming up, but no hints about it in HoT. Also, I’ve heard it might be a bigger map and that since you recruit troops, it is probably going to be a 8v8 set up, and would work better that way.

Tricare.2946:

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

Is called balance, or you’re just another pve guy who likes to get carried by his hurr durr legendary junk instead of his skills? Your candies and shiny dungeon crap are not gonna help you there m8

get over it

Archaon.9524:

Tricare.2946:

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

Is called balance, or you’re just another pve guy who likes to get carried by his hurr durr legendary junk instead of his skills? Your candies and shiny dungeon crap are not gonna help you there m8

get over it

Lul all these comments about my player skill and wanting to get carried. There’s a link to my youtube channel, pick some videos and make fun of me that way. and sadly I have 0 legendaries

Here’s a good one for you I’m the guardian

Edit: Also, everyone has the same gear…… I’m in all exotics except my trinkets and such which are all easy to achieve.

Tricare.2946:

Archaon.9524:

Tricare.2946:

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

Is called balance, or you’re just another pve guy who likes to get carried by his hurr durr legendary junk instead of his skills? Your candies and shiny dungeon crap are not gonna help you there m8

get over it

Lul all these comments about my player skill and wanting to get carried. There’s a link to my youtube channel, pick some videos and make fun of me that way. and sadly I have 0 legendaries

Here’s a good one for you I’m the guardian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm--IZqqEs8

Edit: Also, everyone has the same gear…… I’m in all exotics except my trinkets and such which are all easy to achieve.

There’s way too much power creep in wvw when you factor in food and utility buffs. The gear also allows for AIDS and cancer mechanics more so than spvp.

Food and utility buffs that EVERYONE has access to, but lets not change the topic eh

Doesn’t matter if people have access to or not. Certain foods over power other stats.

You brought up the topic of wvw stuff. It is not really changing topics.

I roam and spvp. Roaming is way less balanced.

Which foods are we talking about?

Tricare.2946:

Which foods are we talking about?

Probably things like +/- 40% condi duration, when equivalent foods give +100 and +70 to a stat. The 40% is equal to putting 8 points into the relevant trait line, but the 100 stat it replaces is equivalent to 2 trait points.

Tricare.2946:

Food and utility buffs that EVERYONE has access to, but lets not change the topic eh

I assume that food had to be bought for gold, am I right?

GW1 Fort Aspenwood was awesome – GW2 Stronghold mode cannot fail. NPC escort, supply running and choosing how to spend it, gates, pushing into enemy base to kill key NPC… sounds like it’s got everything that made FA good, assuming there’s no silly restriction like guilds or pre-mades.

Serval.6458:

Tricare.2946:

Which foods are we talking about?

Probably things like +/- 40% condi duration, when equivalent foods give +100 and +70 to a stat. The 40% is equal to putting 8 points into the relevant trait line, but the 100 stat it replaces is equivalent to 2 trait points.

Partially this, and you have to figure that +40% condi duration on top of some duration traits can not be compensated for using -40% condi duration on some classes.

Stronghold will succeed unless they don’t stop class stacking:
I think we’ve all had enough of fighting 5 guardians, or 5 engies.

Can you imagine fighting 10 or 15 medi-guardians, or 15 bunker eles, or 15 turret engies.
The game will never be balanced until a limit is set on how many of the same class is allowed.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

GW1 Fort Aspenwood was awesome – GW2 Stronghold mode cannot fail. NPC escort, supply running and choosing how to spend it, gates, pushing into enemy base to kill key NPC… sounds like it’s got everything that made FA good, assuming there’s no silly restriction like guilds or pre-mades.

I hope and I think it will be restricted to guilds/(premades?).

The -40% condition food is stronger than the +40%.

The -40 happens after the condition is applied.

So if a user has +40 and uses a 10 second bleed it would be a 14 second bleed.
He casts that on someone useing -40 that bleed would be 14 – 5.6 = 8.4 second bleed.

Say the person has +70% so take 10 + 7 = 17

Now 17 – 6.8 = 10.2 seconds. The -40% is stronger.

And yes the food costs gold, but I always have 10g and I buy the most expensive food and you’ll never catch me alive doing PvE crap

Tricare.2946:

Archaon.9524:

Tricare.2946:

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

Is called balance, or you’re just another pve guy who likes to get carried by his hurr durr legendary junk instead of his skills? Your candies and shiny dungeon crap are not gonna help you there m8

get over it

Lul all these comments about my player skill and wanting to get carried. There’s a link to my youtube channel, pick some videos and make fun of me that way. and sadly I have 0 legendaries

Here’s a good one for you I’m the guardian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm--IZqqEs8

Edit: Also, everyone has the same gear…… I’m in all exotics except my trinkets and such which are all easy to achieve.

To be onest all i see is random spamming with ppl not even going for stability stomps and all standing in plague aoe like reterds, there’s kilometer of space to get out and they still sit on plague condispam 24/7…looks like a hotjoin midfight to me. If you want to make a video to prove something just go pvp, no need to get/buy gear, cakes and kitten…just go in, record it, upload on youtube and post on forum. Your gameplay will be way easier to see then once u got rid of nonsense pve stats and buffs and all dat kitten randomly flying around

Tricare.2946:

Putting Stronghold as the GvG game type into spvp isn’t going to work well to represent guilds other than the ones that already spvp.

Having a GvG with 5v5 is already excluding a huge population that doesn’t do spvp as it is because of the small team sizes.

Having spvp gear and stats is another reason a lot of people don’t play that game mode. Most of the wvw pop likes to min max their gear which can’t be done in spvp.

There are more reasons than this but I’m off to work. Hope they will allow a setting to change between spvp rules or wvw rules

You’re just about everything what’s wrong with nowadays gaming communities. Whiny, dissatisfied, negative but what’s worse you project that onto others. ‘Stronghold will fail’ – who the hell are you to say that? Not only you have not seen or played the game mode, there’s basically only minimum info provided yet.
Whether it is an issue it is only 5v5 or not, you have absolutely no ground to call it will be failure. Actually, reading the title I pretty much just dismissed everything you wrote.

Imo, this is a great big step to what this game needed since beta. Hopefully, expansion will not take forever.

I have to lol at the idea that WvWvW people like the gear available there for min/maxingonly. They like the gear the way it is in WvWvW because if they grind the top gear it gives them a huge advantage over people that don’t have it. Don’t peddle that nonsense here we aren’t stupid. You can always min/max regardless of equipment with trait lines and runes in spvp. Don’t be afraid of even competition. If you like pvp for the sake of pvp it doesn’t matter. If you want your battles decided by equipment and numbers WvWvW is that way —-—————>.

Tricare.2946:

The -40% condition food is stronger than the +40%.

The -40 happens after the condition is applied.

So if a user has +40 and uses a 10 second bleed it would be a 14 second bleed.
He casts that on someone useing -40 that bleed would be 14 – 5.6 = 8.4 second bleed.

Say the person has +70% so take 10 + 7 = 17

Now 17 – 6.8 = 10.2 seconds. The -40% is stronger.

And yes the food costs gold, but I always have 10g and I buy the most expensive food and you’ll never catch me alive doing PvE crap

You missed the point. The -40% isn’t stronger when you factor in traits.

For example Terrormancer. You have 50% fear duration traited. 10% and 40% from utility and food. On an engie I can only possibly reduce that by 40% duration from food and 20% from runes. 5% more if I somehow deemed Melandru worthy of use.

In spvp the Fear gets 30% more duration when you factor that stuff in. In WvW the same fear now goes up to 40%. Not to mention you can ramp that up with a sigil.

My point being is that wvw and roaming might be fun, but spvp brings a balance where Build Wars 2 is not as big of a factor as far as getting perma fear chained or the even more datardly perplexity builds.

brannigan.9831:

I have to lol at the idea that WvWvW people like the gear available there for min/maxingonly. They like the gear the way it is in WvWvW because if they grind the top gear it gives them a huge advantage over people that don’t have it. Don’t peddle that nonsense here we aren’t stupid. You can always min/max regardless of equipment with trait lines and runes in spvp. Don’t be afraid of even competition. If you like pvp for the sake of pvp it doesn’t matter. If you want your battles decided by equipment and numbers WvWvW is that way —-—————>.

^

There is no major gear advantage, you don’t have to “grind” for much. Any adverage player can get fully geared if your level 80 pretty quick. Only thing people grind for are skins.

And -% duration will always be better. Give that 2 second fear +100% duration. It’s now a 4 second fear. With just the -40 food it brings it down to a 2.4 second fear. Pretty much the base duration anyways.

That food just made that trait unless

Tricare.2946:

There is no major gear advantage, you don’t have to “grind” for much. Any adverage player can get fully geared if your level 80 pretty quick. Only thing people grind for are skins.

And -% duration will always be better. Give that 2 second fear +100% duration. It’s now a 4 second fear. With just the -40 food it brings it down to a 2.4 second fear. Pretty much the base duration anyways.

That food just made that trait unless

Food Wars 2

roflmao…

i mean…come on…really?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-duration-vs-Condition-duration/first

Serval.6458:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Condition-duration-vs-Condition-duration/first

You win.

Before GW2 it was absurd to gvg with more than a single group.

In each game the best “A Team” would fight the others guilds.
In DAoC this was 8v8
In War it was 5v5 but sometimes 10v10 because of scenario teams
In GW1 it was 8v8
I always wondered if i was the only person surprised by the 20v20 gvgs when they started in gw2.

I am interested to know why they picked 5v5 too though. I assumed it would be 8v8 like the original GW1. I wonder if peoples concerns of this just being another sPvP map are valid. Don’t get me wrong I do love sPvP but i would like this game mode to be able to stand alone.
Edit: I do totally agree with using the sPvP stat system though for balance.
After researching more i found out that they are experimenting with numbers between 5-10 this is great for me. I dk why the original poster though it was already decided.

Moorecore.6349:

B
I am interested to know why they picked 5v5 too though. I assumed it would be 8v8 like the original GW1.

As far as we know ( as far as I know ) they’ve playtested everything from 5v5 to 10v10 as per the post-pax south conversations with Colin.

We don’t know if it’s 5v5 yet. It will require beta feedback.

Keep in mind that the game is balanced around 5v5 which would make sense that it would be 5v5.

Just like GW1 was balanced around 8v8.

thread was a good laugh

didnt know people still think lemongrass soup is anything but additive
didnt know people still think they win 2v5’s against anything but baddies while roaming

thanks for the laughs

I would hope for at least 10v10 otherwise what really makes this map any different from a glorified Legacy of the Foefire?