The Irony of GW2 PvP Toxicity

The Irony of GW2 PvP Toxicity

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

If you’ve ever had both the fortune and misfortune of reading this forum, reddit, map chat, or any other venue where players occasionally express their views on the collective actions of other players, you’ve probably seen some complaints. Those attempting to capture the amount of malice some players can express toward others summarize the GW2 player community as a toxic community, and they’re actually onto something. However, this complaint itself is also incredibly ironic.

Complaints do have value but not all complaints. What separates a good complaint from a bad one is whether the complaint offers a better alternative to the idea it’s tearing down. For example, telling a player he or she is bad because they’re leaving nodes to outnumber fights on a bunker build does little or nothing. Telling a player why it’s generally unhelpful to outnumber as a bunker, on the other hand, has potential to be helpful. What makes GW2 toxic are the complaints without substance – the complaints which don’t also offer what the person receiving the complaint can interpret as an agreeable suggestion.

The irony of GW2 is our complaints about toxicity are also failing to include substance. When we complain about elitism, people being sheep to the meta builds, or the abusive tone of how players typically express their frustration, we’re being just as bad as the people we’re criticizing. We’re being just as bad because we’re making the same mistake when also failing to offer better alternatives. Ironically, we’re contributing to the toxicity of GW2 with how we often comment on the toxicity of GW2.

So. What’s the alternative?

Simply put, provide criticism with a suggestion that you believe will lead to improvements. Additionally, attempt to make this suggestion in a way that conveys not just what you believe but also communicates it in a way the person receiving it will be more inclined to take seriously.

What does that look like in practice? Unfortunately, this isn’t inherently simple – it depends on the person. How this process can start, however, is simple. Rather than call someone out, start be asking, “Hey [player name], are you curious about something you can do to win more often?” We might still be toxic. This toxicity may also be ironically contributed to by some of those criticize it through how they criticize it. Nevertheless, you can start to standout amidst all this nonsense through demonstrating some simple respect.

(edited by rennlc.7346)

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Posted by: Wargameur.6950

Wargameur.6950

If you’ve ever had both the fortune and misfortune of reading this forum, reddit, map chat, or any other venue where players occasionally express their views on the collective actions of other players, you’ve probably seen some complaints. Those attempting to capture the amount of malice some players can express toward others summarize the GW2 player community as a toxic community, and they’re actually onto something. However, this complaint itself is also incredibly ironic.

Complaints do have value but not all complaints. What separates a good complaint from a bad one is whether the complaint offers a better alternative to the idea it’s tearing down. For example, telling a player he or she is bad because they’re leaving nodes to outnumber fights on a bunker build does little or nothing. Telling a player why it’s generally unhelpful to outnumber as a bunker, on the other hand, has potential to be helpful. What makes GW2 toxic are the complaints without substance – the complaints which don’t also offer what the person receiving the complaint can interpret as an agreeable suggestion.

The irony of GW2 is our complaints about toxicity are also failing to include substance. When we complain about elitism, people being sheep to the meta builds, or the abusive tone of how players typically express their frustration, we’re being just as bad as the people we’re criticizing. We’re being just as bad because we’re making the same mistaken when also failing to offer better alternatives. Ironically, we’re contributing to the toxicity of GW2 with how we often respond to the toxicity of GW2.

So. What’s the alternative?

Simply put, provide criticism with a suggestion that you believe will lead to improvements. Additionally, attempt to make this suggestion in a way that conveys not just what you believe but also communicates it in a way the person receiving it will be more inclined to take seriously.

What does that look like in practice? Unfortunately, this isn’t inherently simple – it depends on the person. How this process can start, however, is simple. Rather than call someone out, start be asking, “Hey [player name], are you curious about something you can do to win more often?” We might still be toxic. This toxicity may also be ironically contributed to by some of those criticize it through how they criticize it. Nevertheless, you can standout amidst all this nonsense through demonstrating some simple respect.

You know what ? most of the time people just vent their anger and then blocks you so you can’t even answer…

main ~ Esper Jace (Thief )/ Ellundril Jiluan
(mesmer ) – EU [Teef]

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Posted by: Vicariuz.1605

Vicariuz.1605

All of that is true, the issue is most of the complaints are about REALLY basic stuff that the MAJORITY of the player base is incapable of understanding. How many times does a person need to be told/read/see these TRULY BASIC principles before it sinks in?

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

All of that is true, the issue is most of the complaints are about REALLY basic stuff that the MAJORITY of the player base is incapable of understanding. How many times does a person need to be told/read/see these TRULY BASIC principles before it sinks in?

If it’s not said in a way someone wants to listen to, you can tell them something an infinite number of times regardless how of basic it is. How something is said is probably much more important than what it is said.

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Posted by: Kako.1930

Kako.1930

People who make toxic comments don’t think twice before they do or say anything, which is why they’re usually terrible players who never learn anything.

No matter how icky sweet you are to them, or how many times you try to reword things to make it sound nicer or clearer, they don’t want to learn or listen to anyone, so it’s not going to make a difference how you word it.

Also, like Wargameur said, most of them just block you if you try to say anything constructive to them anyways. The best thing to do is to ignore them and not waste your time feeding their egos.

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Posted by: Vicariuz.1605

Vicariuz.1605

All of that is true, the issue is most of the complaints are about REALLY basic stuff that the MAJORITY of the player base is incapable of understanding. How many times does a person need to be told/read/see these TRULY BASIC principles before it sinks in?

If it’s not said in a way someone wants to listen to, you can tell them something an infinite number of times regardless how of basic it is. How something is said is probably much more important than what it is said.

it quite literally doesnt matter if u hold their hand and tell them or not. the MAJORITY of this player base is INCAPABLE of learning.

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

it quite literally doesnt matter if u hold their hand and tell them or not. the MAJORITY of this player base is INCAPABLE of learning.

According to the theory of diffusion of innovations, only about 16% of people will be completely opposed to a new innovation. In other words, only about 16% of GW2 players will prove to be incapable of learning new and better strategies. If most people are responding unfavorably to your suggestions, there might be something you can improve with how you make suggestions. For example, asking yourself what can be done to make a message more respectful, how you might respond if someone attempted to help you how you’re offering to, etc.

(edited by rennlc.7346)

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Posted by: rennlc.7346

rennlc.7346

In my experience, the best time to make a suggestion is during the game right as or right after something is happening, such as an over-rotation to make a soon to be 2v1 a 3v1.. Any trace of anger and we’re probably done. If we think it’s hand-holding to do this, we’re probably just using this belief to half-kitten our attempt to encourage improvement.

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Posted by: azyume.6321

azyume.6321

As much as it is commendable your attitude, OP, many times we have to deal with people like the one in the screenshot below.

There was a player who decided to try experimental builds in ranked matches, one that he had no clue how it works since he was pretty much perma downed the whole match.

When someone questioned his build choice, we had an interesting dialogue where he said that pretty much gave up playing for rank because of necros and guardians (detail he was playing a warrior so both professions shouldn’t really be an issue for him) and decided to farm troll because of the way the reward system works.

Attachments:

Guardian Commander
Thief / Mesmer / Elementalist / Warrior / Necromancer / Ranger / Engineer / Revenant
Crystal Desert – Eredon Terrace – Fort Aspenwood – Stormbluff Isle

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Posted by: Vicariuz.1605

Vicariuz.1605

it quite literally doesnt matter if u hold their hand and tell them or not. the MAJORITY of this player base is INCAPABLE of learning.

According to the theory of diffusion of innovations, only about 16% of people will be opposed to a new innovation. In other words, only about 16% of GW2 players will prove to be incapable of learning new and better strategies. If most people are responding unfavorably to your suggestions, there might be something you can improve with how you make suggestions. For example, asking yourself what can be done to make a message more respectful, how you might respond if someone attempted to help you how you’re offering to, etc.

I have tried many avenues, the fact is: It doesn’t matter how you say it, because overall the number of people who acknowledge/follow along, is so small, as to be negligible. In other words, it’s not worth the effort.

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Posted by: MissCee.1295

MissCee.1295

I feel fairly certain a good percentage of the current toxicity could have been avoided with a few small changes in the ranked system. Such as:

  • no rewards for losing = no more afk farmers (or farmers in general)
  • min match requirement (which we now have) = less leaderboard manipulation
  • no class stacking = more fun matches and no 3-4 of one class & arguing over who won’t reroll
  • no daily profession achievements in ranked

I could go on, but I truly can’t be bothered. My care factor lives at about the same level as Anet’s right now.

My toons: Loki Thunderstruck, Loki Livewire,Loki Spellbound, Loki Meanstreak

Find pvp players: https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Wankeleh.8259

Wankeleh.8259

Tbh not all the comments are toxic some people just give positive/negative critics on things but most are toxic indeed. Loosing a game after leading 300 points in frustraiting and i can not see a person who wouldn’t be toxic and angry about it.

Also totaly agree with MissCee! I wrote a post about it but for some reason it got deleted.

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Posted by: Yasi.9065

Yasi.9065

I feel fairly certain a good percentage of the current toxicity could have been avoided with a few small changes in the ranked system. Such as:

  • no rewards for losing = no more afk farmers (or farmers in general)
  • min match requirement (which we now have) = less leaderboard manipulation
  • no class stacking = more fun matches and no 3-4 of one class & arguing over who won’t reroll
  • no daily profession achievements in ranked

I could go on, but I truly can’t be bothered. My care factor lives at about the same level as Anet’s right now.

100% agree.

(…)
If it’s not said in a way someone wants to listen to, you can tell them something an infinite number of times regardless how of basic it is. How something is said is probably much more important than what it is said.

When will people FINALLY learn that other players in PvP arent there to TEACH THEM. PvP doesnt work that way. You teach yourself.
You get flamed a lot? Told you are a noob, a useless rallybot? You cant rotate? Then go on youtube, watch videos, go on reddit/forums and read guides. Go train on golems. Go do scrims in custom arenas.

Stop expecting OTHERS to TEACH you. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

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Posted by: Huskyboy.1053

Huskyboy.1053

I feel fairly certain a good percentage of the current toxicity could have been avoided with a few small changes in the ranked system. Such as:

  • no rewards for losing = no more afk farmers (or farmers in general)
  • min match requirement (which we now have) = less leaderboard manipulation
  • no class stacking = more fun matches and no 3-4 of one class & arguing over who won’t reroll
  • no daily profession achievements in ranked

I could go on, but I truly can’t be bothered. My care factor lives at about the same level as Anet’s right now.

100% agree.

(…)
If it’s not said in a way someone wants to listen to, you can tell them something an infinite number of times regardless how of basic it is. How something is said is probably much more important than what it is said.

When will people FINALLY learn that other players in PvP arent there to TEACH THEM. PvP doesnt work that way. You teach yourself.
You get flamed a lot? Told you are a noob, a useless rallybot? You cant rotate? Then go on youtube, watch videos, go on reddit/forums and read guides. Go train on golems. Go do scrims in custom arenas.

Stop expecting OTHERS to TEACH you. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

Lol this is not true at all. Most people you play with/against will not teach you, yeah, but I hardly need 9 other people per game giving me advice. At the very least you can get a lot of advice by going to a duel arena, dueling somebody, then asking them for advice on how to improve (assuming you lost the duel).