The Skill of Creativity
I went ahead and built a lead helmet.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
I don’t honestly know why anyone would spectate your hotjoin match to steal your build when they could just go on google or youtube and type in “gw2 -class- pvp” build. Besides with 3 choices per trait tier it’s not like it’s all that hard for people to come up with a build.
Face it, nobody stole your build, they just saw the same glaring combination of traits, utilities and weapons and combined them.
This is not going to protect builds from being stolen. It will instead slow their distribution (As noted in my OP and previous posts)
If you don’t want your build stolen don’t use it in hotjoins. Problem solved.
Forcing secretive player to stop playing pvp is exactly why I posted this thread. Your post is, in fact, a revelation that this can affect the player base count and quality.
You can still pvp in ranked or unranked matches. Nobody said you had to quit playing.
But seriously,nobody that is going to use someone’s else build is going to watch you stomp on hotjoin heroes just to steal your scrub-a-dub-dub rubber ducky build. They’re going to go metabattle and use a build people that pros are using. Because if no one else is using your build or something extremely close to it, that they came up with on their own, and posting a video on youtube of it then your build isn’t worth stealing.
I humbly am no genious just a regular palyer.
From what I gather from these posts. People who create builds are the minority. (Althought these comments infer that people havent read my original post completely)
The majority favor my prediction. People would rather copy someome elses creative work rather than create their own and fight against me for it.I just wan’t to repeat. The fix will slow down the rate at which metas arise. Even if there are ways to still get the builds, the distribution will be less convenient. Less convenience means slower distribution. (Even if only slightly slower)
I want to see build wars and skill wars togather to create a sense of uniqueness.Um… no? What I’ve gathered from these posts is that people understand that what they build isn’t unique due to the limitations of the trait system and have no problem sharing their builds because they feel like even if the enemy knows what they’re using, it isn’t the build playing the game, its them. So only if the build is OP and they themselves are hilariously unskillful will the enemy knowing or copying the build actually weaken you, if you’re only riding the ranks on the wind of other players’ ignorance.
So from what I’m seeing of your post here is that you equate people who disagree with your idea of controlling build info to being part of the uncreative masses who simply want to steal other people’s ideas. What I see are people who, creative or not, believe that your idea of information control is a bad one that will, in the end, only help in hindering the meta’s progression and thus also hinder balance, meaning that hiding build information also let’s severely OP specs which are wildly outside the realm of balance hide in the opaqueness of this illusion of uniqueness you seem to be advocating for.
This very well is a possibility. However, If the build is hiding under the illusion of uniqueness, then it is not a meta and used by few people meaning less op specs in tournaments and hot join. If the build does become a ridiculously op meta it will be able to be balanced more correctly rather than a quick fix. (The issue of balance has previously been discussed briefly as has my lack of support)
(edited by Zelulose.8695)
I humbly am no genious just a regular palyer.
From what I gather from these posts. People who create builds are the minority. (Althought these comments infer that people havent read my original post completely)
The majority favor my prediction. People would rather copy someome elses creative work rather than create their own and fight against me for it.I just wan’t to repeat. The fix will slow down the rate at which metas arise. Even if there are ways to still get the builds, the distribution will be less convenient. Less convenience means slower distribution. (Even if only slightly slower)
I want to see build wars and skill wars togather to create a sense of uniqueness.Um… no? What I’ve gathered from these posts is that people understand that what they build isn’t unique due to the limitations of the trait system and have no problem sharing their builds because they feel like even if the enemy knows what they’re using, it isn’t the build playing the game, its them. So only if the build is OP and they themselves are hilariously unskillful will the enemy knowing or copying the build actually weaken you, if you’re only riding the ranks on the wind of other players’ ignorance.
So from what I’m seeing of your post here is that you equate people who disagree with your idea of controlling build info to being part of the uncreative masses who simply want to steal other people’s ideas. What I see are people who, creative or not, believe that your idea of information control is a bad one that will, in the end, only help in hindering the meta’s progression and thus also hinder balance, meaning that hiding build information also let’s severely OP specs which are wildly outside the realm of balance hide in the opaqueness of this illusion of uniqueness you seem to be advocating for.
This very well is a possibility. However, If the build is hiding under the illusion of uniqueness, then it is not a meta and used by few people meaning less op specs in tournaments and hot join. If the build does become a ridiculously op meta it will be able to be balanced more correctly rather than a quick fix.
Meta determines the most effective builds in the most efficient way. If the meta is OP, as nothing can be more OP than a meta build[as is the nature of the meta], then by hiding the meta is to simply be hiding the OP builds from the balance team while those players, few as they may be, who figure it out will be reaping the benefits of unbalanced skills and trait combinations.
So, as you say, you’re not hiding anything. You’re simply prolonging the time it takes for the balance team to notice something is up.
Thus, there is no point in your suggestion except for prolonging the inevitable.
I don’t honestly know why anyone would spectate your hotjoin match to steal your build when they could just go on google or youtube and type in “gw2 -class- pvp” build. Besides with 3 choices per trait tier it’s not like it’s all that hard for people to come up with a build.
Face it, nobody stole your build, they just saw the same glaring combination of traits, utilities and weapons and combined them.
This is not going to protect builds from being stolen. It will instead slow their distribution (As noted in my OP and previous posts)
If you don’t want your build stolen don’t use it in hotjoins. Problem solved.
Forcing secretive player to stop playing pvp is exactly why I posted this thread. Your post is, in fact, a revelation that this can affect the player base count and quality.
You can still pvp in ranked or unranked matches. Nobody said you had to quit playing.
But seriously,nobody that is going to use someone’s else build is going to watch you stomp on hotjoin heroes just to steal your scrub-a-dub-dub rubber ducky build. They’re going to go metabattle and use a build people that pros are using. Because if no one else is using your build or something extremely close to it, that they came up with on their own, and posting a video on youtube of it then your build isn’t worth stealing.
(Addressed in previous posts)
I humbly am no genious just a regular palyer.
From what I gather from these posts. People who create builds are the minority. (Althought these comments infer that people havent read my original post completely)
The majority favor my prediction. People would rather copy someome elses creative work rather than create their own and fight against me for it.I just wan’t to repeat. The fix will slow down the rate at which metas arise. Even if there are ways to still get the builds, the distribution will be less convenient. Less convenience means slower distribution. (Even if only slightly slower)
I want to see build wars and skill wars togather to create a sense of uniqueness.Um… no? What I’ve gathered from these posts is that people understand that what they build isn’t unique due to the limitations of the trait system and have no problem sharing their builds because they feel like even if the enemy knows what they’re using, it isn’t the build playing the game, its them. So only if the build is OP and they themselves are hilariously unskillful will the enemy knowing or copying the build actually weaken you, if you’re only riding the ranks on the wind of other players’ ignorance.
So from what I’m seeing of your post here is that you equate people who disagree with your idea of controlling build info to being part of the uncreative masses who simply want to steal other people’s ideas. What I see are people who, creative or not, believe that your idea of information control is a bad one that will, in the end, only help in hindering the meta’s progression and thus also hinder balance, meaning that hiding build information also let’s severely OP specs which are wildly outside the realm of balance hide in the opaqueness of this illusion of uniqueness you seem to be advocating for.
This very well is a possibility. However, If the build is hiding under the illusion of uniqueness, then it is not a meta and used by few people meaning less op specs in tournaments and hot join. If the build does become a ridiculously op meta it will be able to be balanced more correctly rather than a quick fix.
Meta determines the most effective builds in the most efficient way. If the meta is OP, as nothing can be more OP than a meta build[as is the nature of the meta], then by hiding the meta is to simply be hiding the OP builds from the balance team while those players, few as they may be, who figure it out will be reaping the benefits of unbalanced skills and trait combinations.
So, as you say, you’re not hiding anything. You’re simply prolonging the time it takes for the balance team to notice something is up.
Thus, there is no point in your suggestion except for prolonging the inevitable.
(If you understood, this is partially a repeat of what was just answered)
However, I will add this is not prolonging any inevitable, it is a proposal to change something that has persisted.
I don’t honestly know why anyone would spectate your hotjoin match to steal your build when they could just go on google or youtube and type in “gw2 -class- pvp” build. Besides with 3 choices per trait tier it’s not like it’s all that hard for people to come up with a build.
Face it, nobody stole your build, they just saw the same glaring combination of traits, utilities and weapons and combined them.
This is not going to protect builds from being stolen. It will instead slow their distribution (As noted in my OP and previous posts)
If you don’t want your build stolen don’t use it in hotjoins. Problem solved.
Forcing secretive player to stop playing pvp is exactly why I posted this thread. Your post is, in fact, a revelation that this can affect the player base count and quality.
You can still pvp in ranked or unranked matches. Nobody said you had to quit playing.
But seriously,nobody that is going to use someone’s else build is going to watch you stomp on hotjoin heroes just to steal your scrub-a-dub-dub rubber ducky build. They’re going to go metabattle and use a build people that pros are using. Because if no one else is using your build or something extremely close to it, that they came up with on their own, and posting a video on youtube of it then your build isn’t worth stealing.
(Addressed in previous posts)
And your reply was pointless and a waste of ANet’s resources that could be better spent on more game content and fixing balance issues instead of protecting your ultra secret build.
Eh close this thread. It’s unproductive and trollie.
I am disappointed at how uncreative player’s mindsets have become. People might as well be given premade builds by the developers and play without builds anyway. I will request they proceed to close the thread.
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
Previous post.
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.
No one here has found your reasoning sound. You need to provide different reasons, because you’re not convincing anyone.
Our reasons are sound and you just turn around to use the “if you don’t support my idea then you must be mindless sheep” response.
With all of the other outlets for people to find builds to use instead of creating their own when they get frustrated or just want something to start with you think the least likely used outlet, spectating hotjoin matches, being changed to hide that stuff is going to fix the problem of the lack of creativity and diversity in builds. It’s like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. If you wanted to stop it you’d have to shutdown youtube, these forums, other GW2 related forums, meta-battle, etc.
Furthermore fixing it so hotjoin spectators can’t see a build is a waste of resources to make a very small percentage of the playerbase feel better when those resources could be better allocated on new content.
TL;DR This idea is not a fix and a selfish waste of resources better spent on the community as a whole.
Our reasons are sound and you just turn around to use the “if you don’t support my idea then you must be mindless sheep” response.
With all of the other outlets for people to find builds to use instead of creating their own when they get frustrated or just want something to start with you think the least likely used outlet, spectating hotjoin matches, being changed to hide that stuff is going to fix the problem of the lack of creativity and diversity in builds. It’s like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. If you wanted to stop it you’d have to shutdown youtube, these forums, other GW2 related forums, meta-battle, etc.
Furthermore fixing it so hotjoin spectators can’t see a build is a waste of resources to make a very small percentage of the playerbase feel better when those resources could be better allocated on new content.
TL;DR This idea is not a fix and a selfish waste of resources better spent on the community as a whole.
Please don’t attempt to use logic, it’s clearly not working.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.
You are the on creating the loop. You seem to think we all lack reading comprehension because we don’t agree with you. Or we just don’t agree with you or your reasoning. the burden is on you here my friend.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
I guess ppl are different. Im usually flattered when someone copies whatever I’ve created even if it’s crap
Condi & DPS Ranger, Spirit Guard
I guess ppl are different. Im usually flattered when someone copies whatever I’ve created even if it’s crap
Same here.
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.
You are the on creating the loop. You seem to think we all lack reading comprehension because we don’t agree with you. Or we just don’t agree with you or your reasoning. the burden is on you here my friend.
This is a false assumption, If you look at older posts, I answered new information but looped repeated questions or comments because it is simply fluff that people use to prolong an argument without anything new being discussed. Rather than repeating information, if a player responded “I disagree or something of the sort, I would not argue against him despite the lack of evidence”
I guess ppl are different. Im usually flattered when someone copies whatever I’ve created even if it’s crap
Same here.
True, I often feel the same way. However, I made this in part because people have quit Gw2 because of what they feel is mass build theft (Not individual build theft). Similar to the difference of ten people copying a song verses the millions around the world copying a song. (An example player that hasn’t been on for my knowledge Mufa.1326)
(edited by Zelulose.8695)
I can understand your post Zelulose, however, I don’t think it should be done. First of all, spectator mode is not available in Unranked or Ranked play (everyday matches from a daily PvPer occur there), so players can’t see either their team’s build, nor the enemy’s.
This aside, they have to have available builds when casting ESL tourneys just to know what is every player playing. To understand their role and to ease both player understanding and casters… oh well, casting of the matches.
Great players like Phantaram or ROM have proven to have created Meta builds on their own. Builds that have been always there but that no one wanted to try. So, even if all builds are public, you can always create new builds that will stand. Meta is half on ANet obligations of balance and half on playerbase innovation to win against the meta.
I feel like it isn’t so much that people are looping their reasoning, just that there’s only one reason you’re wrong, being that this is simply making something inconvenient to do and has no purpose except make balance harder. While there may just be a reason or two you’re wrong, that’s all that’s needed to make your whole suggestion a bad one. You haven’t adapted your idea on this presented flaw in your idea and therefore the only thing we can do is just repeat over and over again the same reasons why you’re wrong, because those reasons haven’t changed and you haven’t addressed how to explain how it could be fixed.
A diverse spread of reasons for why this is a bad idea, thus, is unnecessary.
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.
The word your looking for is reiterate. Right now, you’re on the verge of rambling; throwing everybody off for the sake of arguing.
You’re not gathering “reasons to support or oppose” your original post. You’re 100% bias without even realizing that the majority here disagree with your notion of closed/private builds, for teasons that have been expressed several different ways.
Build’s are not unique. People may describe a build in that way because they’re uncommon. The only thing that is unique are playstyles and this was not what your original post was refering to. The changes would do more harm than good.
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
I feel like it isn’t so much that people are looping their reasoning, just that there’s only one reason you’re wrong, being that this is simply making something inconvenient to do and has no purpose except make balance harder. While there may just be a reason or two you’re wrong, that’s all that’s needed to make your whole suggestion a bad one. You haven’t adapted your idea on this presented flaw in your idea and therefore the only thing we can do is just repeat over and over again the same reasons why you’re wrong, because those reasons haven’t changed and you haven’t addressed how to explain how it could be fixed.
A diverse spread of reasons for why this is a bad idea, thus, is unnecessary.
Similarly, I can respond to repeated reasoning with my previous response to say my point is valid. It reaches an impasse that boils down to (I say change you say no.)
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.
The word your looking for is reiterate. Right now, you’re on the verge of rambling; throwing everybody off for the sake of arguing.
You’re not gathering “reasons to support or oppose” your original post. You’re 100% bias without even realizing that the majority here disagree with your notion of closed/private builds, for teasons that have been expressed several different ways.
Build’s are not unique. People may describe a build in that way because they’re uncommon. The only thing that is unique are playstyles and this was not what your original post was refering to. The changes would do more harm than good.
It is closed minded to think uniqueness is limited to how you click your skills and run around.
Furthermore, the majority and I are both completely biased. I am biased to change spectate and the majority is biased to leave it how it is.
I have already recognized the majority disagrees because the majority enjoys copying builds. I am simply responding till the thread closes.
(edited by Zelulose.8695)
The build I run is my own and not copied.
My reasoning is that people who are looking for a build someone else made isn’t going to spend the time watching hot join (which most people think is a joke) and instead just do a quick google search, find meta-battle and go from there because it requires less effort. It has nothing to do with my creativity level. The real issue of creativity or lack thereof is a problem of humanity that goes much deeper than hiding spectating on hot join matches or even a video game in general. The changing of spectating people’s builds only serves to rob the majority, including people who don’t pvp, to simply satisfy less than 1% of the playerbase by using time and resources to change that instead of adding new content, like new maps. You still have yet rebut my point that it is a waste of time and resources for this fix that isn’t a fix or prove that it in truth a fix when so many other more easily accessible sources are available.
Is it unreasonable to think players may have come up with something pretty close to the meta just by playing on their own and discovering what works well and what doesnt…..
That’s what happened to me. I didn’t copy and paste some ones build I just kept adjusting to what my necro did well and what it didn’t eventually ended up with something very similiar to what the meta power build was at that time. I’m not saying I’m the majority but you seem to be lumping people like that in with the majority simply because they play a similiar build and you ASSume that person copy and pasted.
How close minded is it to think you actually have something truly unique in a game with a limited set of options and a decent sized playerbase?
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
The build I run is my own and not copied.
My reasoning is that people who are looking for a build someone else made isn’t going to spend the time watching hot join (which most people think is a joke) and instead just do a quick google search, find meta-battle and go from there because it requires less effort. It has nothing to do with my creativity level. The real issue of creativity or lack thereof is a problem of humanity that goes much deeper than hiding spectating on hot join matches or even a video game in general. The changing of spectating people’s builds only serves to rob the majority, including people who don’t pvp, to simply satisfy less than 1% of the playerbase by using time and resources to change that instead of adding new content, like new maps. You still have yet rebut my point that it is a waste of time and resources for this fix that isn’t a fix or prove that it in truth a fix when so many other more easily accessible sources are available.
Sorry to have missed it. You are not a Dev. so you would not know if it is a waste of time and resources. However, I have addressed this but will address it in a different manor. When I stated more builds would be able to countered it is because players cannot as easily spectate each other to eliminate counters. Furthermore, with a slowed meta progression players are less likely to guess what build an enemy uses based on their weapons and signets. This will create an affect that can increase build diversity.
The other sources of builds (A comment idea that is stated allot thus far) is that this is where builds are distributed when players want to share them. Furthermore, I will again repeat, the change is meant to slow ideal build creations that directly overshadow other builds and eliminates diversity.
(Again I have answered but this is why I refer to previous threads. It is time consuming to repeat myself).
You know what, I’m not even done. There are different kinds of creativity and intelligence. This is a fact. Just because someone is poor at mathematics doesn’t make a person unintelligent because they may be very good at other areas of intellect. This goes with creating things as well. I have friend who plays who is an excellent writer and story-teller who role-plays a plethora of characters and creates great DM plots but she just runs a standard pewpew ranger build when she pvps because the whole mechanics building aspect doesn’t click with her. Does that make her uncreative just because she didn’t toil over the traits to find a build?
Also, just because we don’t think wasting the developer’s time and the company’s resources on hiding someone’s build from hot join spectators doesn’t mean we don’t want people to create their own builds or that we didn’t work on making our own. To imply the two are mutually inclusive is nothing short of asinine and insulting. Your proposed fix is not a fix because the real methods by which people obtain a build not of their own is not through spectating hot joins, it’s done by google searches and asking guildies and friends.
Is it unreasonable to think players may have come up with something pretty close to the meta just by playing on their own and discovering what works well and what doesnt…..
That’s what happened to me. I didn’t copy and paste some ones build I just kept adjusting to what my necro did well and what it didn’t eventually ended up with something very similiar to what the meta power build was at that time. I’m not saying I’m the majority but you seem to be lumping people like that in with the majority simply because they play a similiar build and you ASSume that person copy and pasted.
How close minded is it to think you actually have something truly unique in a game with a limited set of options and a decent sized playerbase?
Well, I hope the dev’s are able to increase diversity as more expansions come out. This change not only helps protect possible present diversity, but also future diversity following expansions.
You know what, I’m not even done. There are different kinds of creativity and intelligence. This is a fact. Just because someone is poor at mathematics doesn’t make a person unintelligent because they may be very good at other areas of intellect. This goes with creating things as well. I have friend who plays who is an excellent writer and story-teller who role-plays a plethora of characters and creates great DM plots but she just runs a standard pewpew ranger build when she pvps because the whole mechanics building aspect doesn’t click with her. Does that make her uncreative just because she didn’t toil over the traits to find a build?
Also, just because we don’t think wasting the developer’s time and the company’s resources on hiding someone’s build from hot join spectators doesn’t mean we don’t want people to create their own builds or that we didn’t work on making our own. To imply the two are mutually inclusive is nothing short of asinine and insulting. Your proposed fix is not a fix because the real methods by which people obtain a build not of their own is not through spectating hot joins, it’s done by google searches and asking guildies and friends.
How exactly do you have the omnipresence to know that every player is on google searching builds instead of spectating them?
Also, you answered correctly. There are different types of creativity. This build creation aspect is one of many avenues that I would like to see opened up.
(edited by Zelulose.8695)
You know what, I’m not even done. There are different kinds of creativity and intelligence. This is a fact. Just because someone is poor at mathematics doesn’t make a person unintelligent because they may be very good at other areas of intellect. This goes with creating things as well. I have friend who plays who is an excellent writer and story-teller who role-plays a plethora of characters and creates great DM plots but she just runs a standard pewpew ranger build when she pvps because the whole mechanics building aspect doesn’t click with her. Does that make her uncreative just because she didn’t toil over the traits to find a build?
Also, just because we don’t think wasting the developer’s time and the company’s resources on hiding someone’s build from hot join spectators doesn’t mean we don’t want people to create their own builds or that we didn’t work on making our own. To imply the two are mutually inclusive is nothing short of asinine and insulting. Your proposed fix is not a fix because the real methods by which people obtain a build not of their own is not through spectating hot joins, it’s done by google searches and asking guildies and friends.
How exactly do you have the omnipresence to know that every player is on google searching builds instead of spectating them?
Also, you answered correctly. There are different types of creativity. This build creation aspect is one of many avenues that I would like to see opened up.
I don’t have the omnipresence to know that but do you have the omnipresence to know that they are spectating hot joins to get their builds?
I do however have logic on my side. See looking at the traits and coming up with your own build takes effort. Spectating matches to find someone that plays your class well takes time and effort as well. A google search to find what is the optimal build is much easier and requires less time and effort.
As for the different types of creativity, not everyone that pvps does it a lot and wants to spend time theory crafting. They just want something that doesn’t have them taking dirt naps as often when they do. Why force them to do something they don’t want to do? And do you honestly think those “lazy” people are going to choose going into different hot join rooms in hope of finding someone who plays their class well when they can just google it instead?
You know what, I’m not even done. There are different kinds of creativity and intelligence. This is a fact. Just because someone is poor at mathematics doesn’t make a person unintelligent because they may be very good at other areas of intellect. This goes with creating things as well. I have friend who plays who is an excellent writer and story-teller who role-plays a plethora of characters and creates great DM plots but she just runs a standard pewpew ranger build when she pvps because the whole mechanics building aspect doesn’t click with her. Does that make her uncreative just because she didn’t toil over the traits to find a build?
Also, just because we don’t think wasting the developer’s time and the company’s resources on hiding someone’s build from hot join spectators doesn’t mean we don’t want people to create their own builds or that we didn’t work on making our own. To imply the two are mutually inclusive is nothing short of asinine and insulting. Your proposed fix is not a fix because the real methods by which people obtain a build not of their own is not through spectating hot joins, it’s done by google searches and asking guildies and friends.
How exactly do you have the omnipresence to know that every player is on google searching builds instead of spectating them?
Also, you answered correctly. There are different types of creativity. This build creation aspect is one of many avenues that I would like to see opened up.
I don’t have the omnipresence to know that but do you have the omnipresence to know that they are spectating hot joins to get their builds?
I do however have logic on my side. See looking at the traits and coming up with your own build takes effort. Spectating matches to find someone that plays your class well takes time and effort as well. A google search to find what is the optimal build is much easier and requires less time and effort.
As for the different types of creativity, not everyone that pvps does it a lot and wants to spend time theory crafting. They just want something that doesn’t have them taking dirt naps as often when they do. Why force them to do something they don’t want to do? And do you honestly think those “lazy” people are going to choose going into different hot join rooms in hope of finding someone who plays their class well when they can just google it instead?
I don’t have omnipresence either. However, it is reasonable to assume that many player use spectate to copy builds. Otherwise, people would not be so against changing spectate to hide skill bars and traits.
For the first bolded portion, refer to previous threads.
For the second bolded portion, I don’t doubt they will google builds. But when their class get’s destroyed by their own profession in a hot-join, they will find it faster just to spectate it and take it rather than google it. Also, there is no guarantee the build they want to figure out is on google.
If this change won’t affect you why do you fight it so much? Do you really like spectating/stealing players builds that much?
(edited by Zelulose.8695)
Creativity is all well and good but what you’re asking for would damage this game’s community.
Information on how to play the game well should not be hidden or kept secret. That sort of attitude breeds elitism to the highest degree, and poisons an already competitive gaming community with paranoia and distrust.
As a build maker myself there is nothing better than seeing other people compliment your set up or try it out for themselves, and hopefully succeed and pose a greater challenge to others. That’s how a theorycrafter should behave in a community. Spending time to find the best and most entertaining builds and sharing them with others so we can ALL have a funner and more challenging experience in the game. Not jealously guarding their precious builds and hoarding ideas in hope of getting a competitive edge in hotjoin.
You know what, I’m not even done. There are different kinds of creativity and intelligence. This is a fact. Just because someone is poor at mathematics doesn’t make a person unintelligent because they may be very good at other areas of intellect. This goes with creating things as well. I have friend who plays who is an excellent writer and story-teller who role-plays a plethora of characters and creates great DM plots but she just runs a standard pewpew ranger build when she pvps because the whole mechanics building aspect doesn’t click with her. Does that make her uncreative just because she didn’t toil over the traits to find a build?
Also, just because we don’t think wasting the developer’s time and the company’s resources on hiding someone’s build from hot join spectators doesn’t mean we don’t want people to create their own builds or that we didn’t work on making our own. To imply the two are mutually inclusive is nothing short of asinine and insulting. Your proposed fix is not a fix because the real methods by which people obtain a build not of their own is not through spectating hot joins, it’s done by google searches and asking guildies and friends.
How exactly do you have the omnipresence to know that every player is on google searching builds instead of spectating them?
Also, you answered correctly. There are different types of creativity. This build creation aspect is one of many avenues that I would like to see opened up.
I don’t have the omnipresence to know that but do you have the omnipresence to know that they are spectating hot joins to get their builds?
I do however have logic on my side. See looking at the traits and coming up with your own build takes effort. Spectating matches to find someone that plays your class well takes time and effort as well. A google search to find what is the optimal build is much easier and requires less time and effort.
As for the different types of creativity, not everyone that pvps does it a lot and wants to spend time theory crafting. They just want something that doesn’t have them taking dirt naps as often when they do. Why force them to do something they don’t want to do? And do you honestly think those “lazy” people are going to choose going into different hot join rooms in hope of finding someone who plays their class well when they can just google it instead?
I don’t have omnipresence either. However, it is reasonable to assume that many player use spectate to copy builds. Otherwise, people would not be so against changing spectate to hide skill bars and traits.
For the first bolded portion, refer to previous threads.
For the second bolded portion, I don’t doubt they will google builds. But when their class get’s destroyed by their own profession in a hot-join, they will find it faster just to spectate it and take it rather than google it. Also, there is no guarantee the build they want to figure out is on google.
If this change wont affect you why do you fight it so much? Do you really like spectating/stealing players builds that much?
No, it’s not reasonable because that path of least effort is just running a search for it.
Hot join is a joke and nobody cares about it. I don’t know anyone who takes hot joins seriously.
People are against the Devs spending time changing spectate options on hot joins when there is an xpac coming out, two traits that are currently disabled because they are not working properly, a poor match-making system and other fixes that take far more priority. Spending time working on your proposal is by and large a waste of their time because that time could be better spent doing other things that helps people more. That’s how I know it is a waste of time and working in game development myself I can make a safe assumption on that.
Stealing builds from hot join heroes? Did you seriously just accuse me of that? I have stated I run my own build that may not be the best but I enjoy it. I haven’t done hot joins since a patch kept me from joining ranked and unranked which is what I do, not lame hot joins, until that problem was fixed.
By this point you have proven yourself to be incapable of seeing anything beyond your own narrow scope and hence why this is not being taken seriously by anyone. Your idea is a joke. No one supports it because it is a joke not because they want to “steal” your build or anyone else’s. Besides the build is ANet’s since they made the traits so they aren’t “stealing” anything even if they are. Nobody owns a build. Your logic is also a joke that breaks down to illogical responses and ad hominem attacks by stating if they don’t agree with you they must be mindless sheep out there stealing people’s intellectual property.
I actually wish more people would spectate to find builds then they wouldn’t be using decent ones, easy kill yay!
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
I actually wish more people would spectate to find builds then they wouldn’t be using decent ones, easy kill yay!
+1
At least he requested this thread be closed. I’ve never seen a more selfish, potentially game-hindering idea touted so brashly.
I’m also having trouble getting over the amount of intelligence credited to builders. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at some of the flowery wording.
“He’s like a man with a fork in a world of soup.”
He meant that, he’s not going to stop until a moderator closes this thread. He’s either an intentional troll, or an unintentional one.
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.
The word your looking for is reiterate. Right now, you’re on the verge of rambling; throwing everybody off for the sake of arguing.
You’re not gathering “reasons to support or oppose” your original post. You’re 100% bias without even realizing that the majority here disagree with your notion of closed/private builds, for teasons that have been expressed several different ways.
Build’s are not unique. People may describe a build in that way because they’re uncommon. The only thing that is unique are playstyles and this was not what your original post was refering to. The changes would do more harm than good.
It is closed minded to think uniqueness is limited to how you click your skills and run around.
Furthermore, the majority and I are both completely biased. I am biased to change spectate and the majority is biased to leave it how it is.
I have already recognized the majority disagrees because the majority enjoys copying builds. I am simply responding till the thread closes.
There it is again. “You disagree with me, so you must be part of the uncreative majority who just copies the creative minority.” Can you stop that? Maybe we’re just not so prickly about people knowing, copying, or critiquing our builds. Maybe we accept that if we rely on our opponent’s ignorance, we aren’t actually all that skilled.
Labelling people as uncreative or copycats just because we don’t agree with you is quite an arrogant thing to do, assuming you yourself are more creative than the rest of us or more intelligent, or anything really. Truly, and insultingly, arrogant.
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.
The word your looking for is reiterate. Right now, you’re on the verge of rambling; throwing everybody off for the sake of arguing.
You’re not gathering “reasons to support or oppose” your original post. You’re 100% bias without even realizing that the majority here disagree with your notion of closed/private builds, for teasons that have been expressed several different ways.
Build’s are not unique. People may describe a build in that way because they’re uncommon. The only thing that is unique are playstyles and this was not what your original post was refering to. The changes would do more harm than good.
It is closed minded to think uniqueness is limited to how you click your skills and run around.
Furthermore, the majority and I are both completely biased. I am biased to change spectate and the majority is biased to leave it how it is.
I have already recognized the majority disagrees because the majority enjoys copying builds. I am simply responding till the thread closes.There it is again. “You disagree with me, so you must be part of the uncreative majority who just copies the creative minority.” Can you stop that? Maybe we’re just not so prickly about people knowing, copying, or critiquing our builds. Maybe we accept that if we rely on our opponent’s ignorance, we aren’t actually all that skilled.
Labelling people as uncreative or copycats just because we don’t agree with you is quite an arrogant thing to do, assuming you yourself are more creative than the rest of us or more intelligent, or anything really. Truly, and insultingly, arrogant.
You imply that I copy?? I’ve submited several prepatch and postpatch Guardian builds so that rules out your assumptions. Only thing i’ve stated is that theorycrafting isn’t creative nor original because some one, some where, is using it.
NEVER have I said you or others were uncreative or copy cats. Again, you’re twisting other people’s words around to extend this lame excuse of an argument.
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
As a build maker myself there is nothing better than seeing other people compliment your set up or try it out for themselves, and hopefully succeed and pose a greater challenge to others.
Learn from this guy.
Between a master and apprentice, i would love to see the differences.
Theres literally no reasoning with this guy, we post responses to his posts and he just says see previous post….. I mean it’s completely unreasonable we did read his post and still didn’t think he was making an effective point so we respond and he just tells us to see the same post we just read to which we were responding too…. it’s like an infinite loop that won’t end until we all just say give up or appease him.
This is because you can’t gather evidence and to lengthen your response so you restate what was answered before in a different way. You create a loop so I create a response in a similar loop. I aim to gather different reasons supporting or opposing the original post. Sorry if this seemed annoying.
The word your looking for is reiterate. Right now, you’re on the verge of rambling; throwing everybody off for the sake of arguing.
You’re not gathering “reasons to support or oppose” your original post. You’re 100% bias without even realizing that the majority here disagree with your notion of closed/private builds, for teasons that have been expressed several different ways.
Build’s are not unique. People may describe a build in that way because they’re uncommon. The only thing that is unique are playstyles and this was not what your original post was refering to. The changes would do more harm than good.
It is closed minded to think uniqueness is limited to how you click your skills and run around.
Furthermore, the majority and I are both completely biased. I am biased to change spectate and the majority is biased to leave it how it is.
I have already recognized the majority disagrees because the majority enjoys copying builds. I am simply responding till the thread closes.There it is again. “You disagree with me, so you must be part of the uncreative majority who just copies the creative minority.” Can you stop that? Maybe we’re just not so prickly about people knowing, copying, or critiquing our builds. Maybe we accept that if we rely on our opponent’s ignorance, we aren’t actually all that skilled.
Labelling people as uncreative or copycats just because we don’t agree with you is quite an arrogant thing to do, assuming you yourself are more creative than the rest of us or more intelligent, or anything really. Truly, and insultingly, arrogant.
You imply that I copy?? I’ve submited several prepatch and postpatch Guardian builds so that rules out your assumptions. Only thing i’ve stated is that theorycrafting isn’t creative nor original because some one, some where, is using it.
NEVER have I said you or others were uncreative or copy cats. Again, you’re twisting other people’s words around to extend this lame excuse of an argument.
Why do you quote me~?
I hope you just misquoted, or this is some misunderstanding.