Guild Wars 2

jessiestiles.9437:

Yes. Absolutely MMR hell did not exist. Yes you were thrown into games where ridiculous stuff went on. But you could log in anytime of day and expect short queue times and expect your games to be evenly balanced.

Amber shopping is preventable. People tanking was annoying but didn’t happen nearly as much. You aren’t going to improve the problem by making games imbalanced and giving people more of a reason to afk or feel like the match is over before it starts.

Except there were people claiming that matches were not evenly balanced during that season.

I agree let’s go back to the system that allows people who don’t know simple game mechanics to advance to legendary also let’s make it so tanking your MMR is a viable strategy to get to legendary these both sound like great ideas to ensure we get enough pve players their wings.

NeXeD.3042:

I agree let’s go back to the system that allows people who don’t know simple game mechanics to advance to legendary also let’s make it so tanking your MMR is a viable strategy to get to legendary these both sound like great ideas to ensure we get enough pve players their wings.

Don’t forget Anet is a business and the idea is to make sound business decisions. This supercedes your concerns over who has wings which Anet told everyone they can get in a year.

Ayrilana.1396:

Yep. Season one was definitely better…

All of the season 1 problems could have been fixed by just the anti smurfing mechanisms and the win streak rewards.

Ayrilana.1396:

Except there were people claiming that matches were not evenly balanced during that season.

It was far better balanced than this season with few complaints about loss streaks. If the population is too low to match opposing teams by mmr as other games do then whilst the S1 solution wasn’t perfect it was a kitten sight better than S2 once the anti smurfing mechanisms and win streak rewards are added in.

NeXeD.3042:

I agree let’s go back to the system that allows people who don’t know simple game mechanics to advance to legendary

Which is largely unrelated to the matchmaking as I said above.

morrolan.9608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yep. Season one was definitely better…

All of the season 1 problems could have been fixed by just the anti smurfing mechanisms and the win streak rewards.

Are you sure. There were people who still claimed that they were in an MMR hell.

morrolan.9608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Except there were people claiming that matches were not evenly balanced during that season.

It was far better balanced than this season with few complaints about loss streaks. If the population is too low to match opposing teams by mmr as other games do then whilst the S1 solution wasn’t perfect it was a kitten sight better than S2 once the anti smurfing mechanisms and win streak rewards are added in.

Do you have evidence that it was far better balanced? How do you know that removing the ability to manipulate MMR would have not led us to where we are now?

For your argument to make any sense whatsoever that would mean that both a balanced mm and imbalanced mm would create equal or similar imbalance. I’m sorry am I supposed to think this is a rational thought worthy of response?

jessiestiles.9437:

For your argument to make any sense whatsoever that would mean that both a balanced mm and imbalanced mm would create equal or similar imbalance. I’m sorry am I supposed to think this is a rational thought worthy of response?

1) You technically responded.
2) You’re wrong.

Yes I responded. Well played. However the pros were complaining that season 1 was too balanced rendering your argument false. <— little hint on where to go next in your debate

jessiestiles.9437:

Yes I responded. Well played. However the pros were complaining that season 1 was too balanced rendering your argument false. <— little hint on where to go next in your debate

They were complaining that it was too balanced? Where did they say this?

Also, my statement about you being wrong was in regards to the first sentence that I quoted. That’s something you made up in order to state my argument would make any sense. I could do that too but it would not be constructive.

The complaints about S1 was that MMR on both teams are even which means if you had a high MMR you probably had a to carry a bunch of scrublords.

Nobody complained about the teams being ‘too balanced’, don’t be stupid

That was one of the main reasons for season 2. Pros were playing against pros in emerald and they experienced the same grind as everyone else. They wanted an imbalanced system that allowed the pros to progress ahead of everyone else.

Now I’m arguing both sides of the debate just to keep it interesting.

edit: the scrubs bit was only part of the problem ^.^

jessiestiles.9437:

That was one of the main reasons for season 2. Pros were playing against pros in emerald and they experienced the same grind as everyone else. They wanted an imbalanced system that allowed the pros to progress ahead of everyone else.

Source?

Somewhere about 300 threads back..

jessiestiles.9437:

Somewhere about 300 threads back..

Well I’ll wait for you to cite your source otherwise it’s not accurate.

You’ll be waiting a while. I mean think about it. What other possible reason could there be for creating a system that piles the higher MMR players on one side other than to cause them progress faster?

jessiestiles.9437:

You’ll be waiting a while. I mean think about it. What other possible reason could there be for creating a system that piles the higher MMR players on one side other than to cause them progress faster?

They’re not being piled onto one side of a match. I’m not sure if you were saying that but I just wanted to make that clear.

The following may help answer your question.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first#post5904942
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pvp-league-season-two-changes/

Your team consists of similar mmr. Your opponents mmr could be much higher or lower than yours. Imbalance is inbuilt into this system. During higher player pool times this imbalance is minimised as much as possible. The winstreaks/losing streaks are a result of this imbalance.

Not losing Divisions is the primary reason we have this MMR Hell experience. The ladder placement should be fluid, players with artificially high ratings need to lose divisions to correct their ladder placement.

You can accommodate this by removing the division grinding requirements from the Achievements.

Ayrilana.1396:

morrolan.9608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Yep. Season one was definitely better…

All of the season 1 problems could have been fixed by just the anti smurfing mechanisms and the win streak rewards.

Are you sure. There were people who still claimed that they were in an MMR hell.

Yes I’m sure, any complaints about loss streaks and mmr hell were nothing in S1 compared to the prevalence of them in S2.

Ayrilana.1396:

morrolan.9608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Except there were people claiming that matches were not evenly balanced during that season.

It was far better balanced than this season with few complaints about loss streaks. If the population is too low to match opposing teams by mmr as other games do then whilst the S1 solution wasn’t perfect it was a kitten sight better than S2 once the anti smurfing mechanisms and win streak rewards are added in.

Do you have evidence that it was far better balanced? How do you know that removing the ability to manipulate MMR would have not led us to where we are now?

The evidence is in how the matchmaking algorithm worked in S1 compared to S2. Plus there’s the anecdotal evidence of lower ranked players.

hackks.3687:

Not losing Divisions is the primary reason we have this MMR Hell experience. The ladder placement should be fluid, players with artificially high ratings need to lose divisions to correct their ladder placement.

You can accommodate this by removing the division grinding requirements from the Achievements.

Probably it could help but offpeak will still have a wider skill gap matching players almost a full division apart. That is, imbalance would still exist and a higher instance of blowout matches. Depending on the time of day if there are less people below your mmr than there are higher you could drop down or go up a division through sheer chance. That would be annoying.

A balanced system would make games closer regardless of the time of day you logged in.

Played guardian and engineer for 40+ games, no luck. Tried a meta build necro and now I’m ruby on a winstreak.

I don’t even know what my skills do, I just press everything and people die. I love this lol.

Ayrilana.1396:

I suggest you read their post again. Stating that there are problems doesn’t mean that the system itself is broken.

The initial post in that thread has shown that the current matchmaking fails to correctly capture the skill of many players, to cathastrophic levels in significant number of cases. That, while on paper it should be better than the one from S1 (which, according to that post, is also terrible) , in practice, when applied to the real environment it ended up even worse (due to impact of many factors that were likely ignored in theoretical model).
In short, the conclusion was that the system is broken, even if this word has not been used.

Ayrilana.1396:

Stating that they’ll try to improve player experience doesn’t mean that the system is broken.

They have also acknowledged RubberDougie’s analysis. If they’ve disagreed with him, they would not have said that thay are aware of all those problems.

Ayrilana.1396:

I suggest reading my response to Dyze again. One of the issues that I pointed out is the lack of player population at a given time for a given skill level.

Yes. That’s one of the factors that got ignored while designing the system and main reason why it’s broken when applied to our current sPvp population.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lack of player population at certain times isn’t the fault of the system.

But it is. The system does not work well for the population it was used for. That’s a huge design flaw.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

I suggest you read their post again. Stating that there are problems doesn’t mean that the system itself is broken.

The initial post in that thread has shown that the current matchmaking fails to correctly capture the skill of many players, to cathastrophic levels in significant number of cases. That, while on paper it should be better than the one from S1 (which, according to that post, is also terrible) , in practice, when applied to the real environment it ended up even worse (due to impact of many factors that were likely ignored in theoretical model).
In short, the conclusion was that the system is broken, even if this word has not been used.

Ayrilana.1396:

Stating that they’ll try to improve player experience doesn’t mean that the system is broken.

They have also acknowledged RubberDougie’s analysis. If they’ve disagreed with him, they would not have said that thay are aware of all those problems.

Ayrilana.1396:

I suggest reading my response to Dyze again. One of the issues that I pointed out is the lack of player population at a given time for a given skill level.

Yes. That’s one of the factors that got ignored while designing the system and main reason why it’s broken when applied to our current sPvp population.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lack of player population at certain times isn’t the fault of the system.

But it is. The system does not work well for the population it was used for. That’s a huge design flaw.

Again, that is just what you believe and how you are reading comments from A-net which is fine just don’t expect all people to agree with you at least not until A-net comes out and says what season 3 changes will be and they agree with your version of events/interpretation. Maybe your right maybe your wrong. I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the return of MMR averaging teams if I was you though as that doesn’t promote league placement based on skill and allowed many people who did not know the basics to grind there way to diamond and higher.

brannigan.9831:

I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the return of MMR averaging teams if I was you though as that doesn’t promote league placement based on skill and allowed many people who did not know the basics to grind there way to diamond and higher.

I’m not holding my breath. At this moment Anet is deciding whether leagues should be more of a skill system, or reward track (or if there’s any other way to mix those two without having something blow up). What they will decide upon is still unknown, and might go either way.
I’m just saying that the system as it is now is seriously flawed, and even worse at both aims than S1.

As soon as Anet realise they can’t achieve two diametrically opposed goals (ie using an unbalanced system and still trying to have balanced matches) we will be back to balanced teams.