Guild Wars 2

Ah, but it would be so easy to let scoreboard reflect more contribution.

Like… you get 5 points for every 10k dmg dealt/soaked/healed… and you get -25 points for every time you die.

Then score could be used to determine contribution to win/loss et voila… individual mmr.

So what if leaving portals isnt part of score? You get points for stuff that result out of it.
And the times where sitting on point afk was a thing, those times are long over.

But then you’d have bad d/f cleric eles going far on an enemy capped point doing 1v1s all game and being MVP since he never dies, heals a lot but overall really being a massive liability and overall useless.

Yasi.9065:

Ah, but it would be so easy to let scoreboard reflect more contribution.

Like… you get 5 points for every 10k dmg dealt/soaked/healed… and you get -25 points for every time you die.

Then score could be used to determine contribution to win/loss et voila… individual mmr.

So what if leaving portals isnt part of score? You get points for stuff that result out of it.
And the times where sitting on point afk was a thing, those times are long over.

What u suggested is still a bad metric.

Doing more damage =/= more contribution. I won a lot of games by doing only 300-400k damage because we coordinated well and got quick kills. I lost games I did 800k+ damage because we don’t have good focus fire and most damage got outhealed.

Also, you stick to a fight for long time you will do more dmg/soak more dmg/do more healing. But that fight could be a fight not worth taking(e.g. fighting a bunker on an enemey-captured node) which is clearly a bad fight to take.

10/10 to the OP

The differences between my main acct and my alt acct are striking.

The OP pretty much nailed why there is such a stark contrast.

You just have to be able to count the instance. Evades. Number of players ported. Explain how kiting can sway a match. A fight yes but a match?

This matchmaking is openly cruel. It’s neither fun nor competitive to play matches with a deliberately stacked deck. I’ve spent the past 6-8 hours of game time losing repeatedly.

Exciton.8942:

Yasi.9065:

Ah, but it would be so easy to let scoreboard reflect more contribution.

Like… you get 5 points for every 10k dmg dealt/soaked/healed… and you get -25 points for every time you die.

Then score could be used to determine contribution to win/loss et voila… individual mmr.

So what if leaving portals isnt part of score? You get points for stuff that result out of it.
And the times where sitting on point afk was a thing, those times are long over.

What u suggested is still a bad metric.

Doing more damage =/= more contribution. I won a lot of games by doing only 300-400k damage because we coordinated well and got quick kills. I lost games I did 800k+ damage because we don’t have good focus fire and most damage got outhealed.

Also, you stick to a fight for long time you will do more dmg/soak more dmg/do more healing. But that fight could be a fight not worth taking(e.g. fighting a bunker on an enemey-captured node) which is clearly a bad fight to take.

In any event it’ll be better than what we have now. It’s really to help solo q more than anything

But if they outheal the dps, that means the players on the enemyteam get high score, which then means that you are again down in points compared to enemy team.

The important part is rewarding dps and bunkering, without making it too rewarding.
That necro for example, fighting a bunker on enemy point will always have less score than the bunker, because bunker heals himself up and he got the cap. Whereas that necro only produces dps, without cap.
And he risks getting -25 points if the fight takes too long because someone from enemyteam might decide to free that bunker and kill the necro.

I think there definitely should be at least a penalty score for dieing. Players just run in without thinking all the time… but with a penalty score for it, they would finally stop doing that.

Of course, its important to have a dps meta for that… and not a bunker meta. ^^

So what would a list look like that had all the contributing factors to winning that aren’t captured by personal score?

And then how could you score them?

Stop putting Sapphire players in teams with Ruby players.

I’ll wait in the queue longer if that’s what it takes. The wait for a long queue is shorter than the time it takes to jump up and down in pips from win-loss bouncing or lose streaks.

I’m in Ruby hell now and while I can see the merits of matching Rubies in the top tier against Diamond players, I can’t understand matching against people in other divisions when they are in the middle tiers. If you wanna pit me against Diamonds when I’m in tier 6 Ruby, bring it on, but once a series of Diamonds beats me down to tier 5, please just stop that nonsense… I really can’t believe the Diamond matchups continued after I got beat down to tier 4 from tier 6. :/

Right now I see tons of Diamond players standing around and tons of Sapphire players standing around, and a few Ruby. Yet I keep getting either matched vs Diamond or teamed with Sapphire.

Please match Sapphires and Diamonds with their own division. Stop giving Ruby players so many Diamonds and Sapphires in the middle tiers of Ruby.

Also stop this kind of matching behavior for all divisions, while you’re at it.. :/

Mo Mo.1947:

Stop putting Sapphire players in teams with Ruby players.

I’ll wait in the queue longer if that’s what it takes. The wait for a long queue is shorter than the time it takes to jump up and down in pips from win-loss bouncing or lose streaks.

I’m in Ruby hell now and while I can see the merits of matching Rubies in the top tier against Diamond players, I can’t understand matching against people in other divisions when they are in the middle tiers. If you wanna pit me against Diamonds when I’m in tier 6 Ruby, bring it on, but once a series of Diamonds beats me down to tier 5, please just stop that nonsense… I really can’t believe the Diamond matchups continued after I got beat down to tier 4 from tier 6. :/

Right now I see tons of Diamond players standing around and tons of Sapphire players standing around, and a few Ruby. Yet I keep getting either matched vs Diamond or teamed with Sapphire.

Please match Sapphires and Diamonds with their own division. Stop giving Ruby players so many Diamonds and Sapphires in the middle tiers of Ruby.

Also stop this kind of matching behavior for all divisions, while you’re at it.. :/

Bad Matchmaking = Reduced Player Base = Even Worse Matchmaking = Even Smaller Player Base etc…

Sorry to say it will only get worse this season.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Mo Mo.1947:

Stop putting Sapphire players in teams with Ruby players.

I’ll wait in the queue longer if that’s what it takes. The wait for a long queue is shorter than the time it takes to jump up and down in pips from win-loss bouncing or lose streaks.

I’m in Ruby hell now and while I can see the merits of matching Rubies in the top tier against Diamond players, I can’t understand matching against people in other divisions when they are in the middle tiers. If you wanna pit me against Diamonds when I’m in tier 6 Ruby, bring it on, but once a series of Diamonds beats me down to tier 5, please just stop that nonsense… I really can’t believe the Diamond matchups continued after I got beat down to tier 4 from tier 6. :/

Right now I see tons of Diamond players standing around and tons of Sapphire players standing around, and a few Ruby. Yet I keep getting either matched vs Diamond or teamed with Sapphire.

Please match Sapphires and Diamonds with their own division. Stop giving Ruby players so many Diamonds and Sapphires in the middle tiers of Ruby.

Also stop this kind of matching behavior for all divisions, while you’re at it.. :/

Bad Matchmaking = Reduced Player Base = Even Worse Matchmaking = Even Smaller Player Base etc…

Sorry to say it will only get worse this season.

this +1 and will affect season 3 and 4 as well
MMR in the pits! a long time ago – utterly screwed

godsie.2864:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Mo Mo.1947:

Stop putting Sapphire players in teams with Ruby players.

I’ll wait in the queue longer if that’s what it takes. The wait for a long queue is shorter than the time it takes to jump up and down in pips from win-loss bouncing or lose streaks.

I’m in Ruby hell now and while I can see the merits of matching Rubies in the top tier against Diamond players, I can’t understand matching against people in other divisions when they are in the middle tiers. If you wanna pit me against Diamonds when I’m in tier 6 Ruby, bring it on, but once a series of Diamonds beats me down to tier 5, please just stop that nonsense… I really can’t believe the Diamond matchups continued after I got beat down to tier 4 from tier 6. :/

Right now I see tons of Diamond players standing around and tons of Sapphire players standing around, and a few Ruby. Yet I keep getting either matched vs Diamond or teamed with Sapphire.

Please match Sapphires and Diamonds with their own division. Stop giving Ruby players so many Diamonds and Sapphires in the middle tiers of Ruby.

Also stop this kind of matching behavior for all divisions, while you’re at it.. :/

Bad Matchmaking = Reduced Player Base = Even Worse Matchmaking = Even Smaller Player Base etc…

Sorry to say it will only get worse this season.

this +1 and will affect season 3 and 4 as well
MMR in the pits! a long time ago – utterly screwed

i keep hearing things like this and then i also see data that the player base has been increasing in pvp…

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

Thanks for the Red! Glad to hear from you =)

Nice post. Well thought out one finally.

Madman.6912:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Akachi.1352:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

abolish mmr and just match people randomly within division? Can’t be worse than it is now

They need a combination of S1 and S2 and maybe smarter mmr, as opposed to no mmr.

Why do you need any MMR any way? If you are a strong player you will ascend along with other strong players and eventually settle where your matches will be as close as can be. And on top of it you will do so without tarnishing your prestige because having an even easier climb than you would have had otherwise.

MMR is fun as a statistic to inform you about your team (if you have a regular team) but using it to build soloq teams is problematic.

BTW: Ty for replying here Evan. It is nice to have some feedback from you guys about matters like this.

I’m not a huge fan of the “just throw ‘x number’ of players together” at random ala GW1 FA, JQ or RA. I don’t necessarily want to be teamed with just 4 other ppl that queued at the same time as me so long as they fall in the right pip range.

I got a lot of enjoyment from the 50/50 system because a lot more matches were close and exhilarating The issue with MMR is its simply not smart, nor is it truly “individual.” (If I understand how it presently works)

You’re assuming the pip system alone is not an MMR system. Without the hidden MMR, you will be more likely to find a spot where you get 50/50, but only if they also take the bias out of the pip reward system. No more rebounds, safety walls, and lose 2 pips for 3 game losing streaks.

The hidden system is dual redundant and can only work against the first. Season 1 carried newbs by pairing them with pro players, which held the pro players back. Season 2’s system was just completely divergent based on luck and timing.

Both pips and hidden MMR alone do the same thing. They give you score value when you win or lose. Having 2 systems working at the same time will cause errors and fail to represent actual ranking.

You cannot take out the safeties from a random pug group game, you could if all we had was premade 5v5-s then the team itself has a rating (like in wow arena) you cannot penalize a soloQer that much for what he doesn’t have control over (what the other 4 players are doing)

I had much the same thought. In order for them to truly do what people seemingly want Anet to do, they would have to remove solo q as an option all together. 5-man premades or bust.

Which, if they want to go that route, fine. Just give other alternative route to work towards my legendary goals.

(Keyword is work ladies and gents. I am not asking for anything free here)

Evan, please hurry up and fix match making. I’d rather be playing against higher division players than losing with 4 people who don’t even understand basic rotating and fight off point.

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

But we all know this system will fail miserably like its previous ones and eventually something else will take its place.

MMR means nothing now. Every match above Legendary is entirely dependent upon the time of the day.

Hmm, this is really great stuff.

Maybe there needs to be a saving grace match that boosts your MMR if you land in a massive losing streak, that will reset your MMR to prior to the maximum you had at the time if you win, or at least give you half to step up your game.

That might help those folks in ‘Hell’, which is actually a smaller % on that report than I thought there would be. Would those numbers be accurate? Who knows, but it could at least give credit to the existence of a hell. (Heaven can also be a problem too…)

SneakyTouchy.6043:

TPMN.1483:

So what’s the solution?

Remove MMR.

If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.

style.6173:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

TPMN.1483:

So what’s the solution?

Remove MMR.

If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.

I don’t think the start would be worst. Because of the random factor, people will low skill can get lucky once in a while and get teamed with 3-4 really good players. Where now the low skill people are pretty much doomed to loss every match.

Mogar.9216:

style.6173:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

TPMN.1483:

So what’s the solution?

Remove MMR.

If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.

I don’t think the start would be worst. Because of the random factor, people will low skill can get lucky once in a while and get teamed with 3-4 really good players. Where now the low skill people are pretty much doomed to loss every match.

agree +1 this

Tontonino.9736:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

But we all know this system will fail miserably like its previous ones and eventually something else will take its place.

MMR means nothing now. Every match above Legendary is entirely dependent upon the time of the day.

agree time of day for me now far more indicative of match outcome than any of my skill

Sykper.6583:

Hmm, this is really great stuff.

Maybe there needs to be a saving grace match that boosts your MMR if you land in a massive losing streak, that will reset your MMR to prior to the maximum you had at the time if you win, or at least give you half to step up your game.

That might help those folks in ‘Hell’, which is actually a smaller % on that report than I thought there would be. Would those numbers be accurate? Who knows, but it could at least give credit to the existence of a hell. (Heaven can also be a problem too…)

nice idea or some sort of MMR resets during the season to help those who got off to a bad start but have worked to improve

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

It would have been nice to make an official post to tell the player base that hey we still screwed up a bit and the MMR system is still not up to par with where we want it. Pretty much you’ve destroyed PvP interest for a lot of players because of this. Class balancing a bit better might help as well. How can you justifiy having a Reaper who has 2 health bars, that can tank, put down so many conditions that you can never even cleanse them properly if you even spec into it? That’s just stupid. Same goes for other classes like Scrapper (which I do play), just too much substain and stuff. Druid? Takes 2-3 ppl to take out a bunker spec, so how is all this even fair?

It is not…

godsie.2864:

Sykper.6583:

Hmm, this is really great stuff.

Maybe there needs to be a saving grace match that boosts your MMR if you land in a massive losing streak, that will reset your MMR to prior to the maximum you had at the time if you win, or at least give you half to step up your game.

That might help those folks in ‘Hell’, which is actually a smaller % on that report than I thought there would be. Would those numbers be accurate? Who knows, but it could at least give credit to the existence of a hell. (Heaven can also be a problem too…)

nice idea or some sort of MMR resets during the season to help those who got off to a bad start but have worked to improve

Not sure anyone should have their MMR reset. If anyone remembers it was widely thought that tanking your MMR in early divisions in season 1 was the fastest way to get to legend….. now we want to reward those people who tanked on purpose?

ibkillin.9610:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

It would have been nice to make an official post to tell the player base that hey we still screwed up a bit and the MMR system is still not up to par with where we want it. Pretty much you’ve destroyed PvP interest for a lot of players because of this. Class balancing a bit better might help as well. How can you justifiy having a Reaper who has 2 health bars, that can tank, put down so many conditions that you can never even cleanse them properly if you even spec into it? That’s just stupid. Same goes for other classes like Scrapper (which I do play), just too much substain and stuff. Druid? Takes 2-3 ppl to take out a bunker spec, so how is all this even fair?

It is not…

reaper has 2 health bars……. /fail

enough said.

NeXeD.3042:

ibkillin.9610:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

It would have been nice to make an official post to tell the player base that hey we still screwed up a bit and the MMR system is still not up to par with where we want it. Pretty much you’ve destroyed PvP interest for a lot of players because of this. Class balancing a bit better might help as well. How can you justifiy having a Reaper who has 2 health bars, that can tank, put down so many conditions that you can never even cleanse them properly if you even spec into it? That’s just stupid. Same goes for other classes like Scrapper (which I do play), just too much substain and stuff. Druid? Takes 2-3 ppl to take out a bunker spec, so how is all this even fair?

It is not…

reaper has 2 health bars……. /fail

enough said.

Ya they do pretty much. I don’t care about Shroud form if Reaper wasn’t a kittening bursting tanking BS OP spec? Got it?

style.6173:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

TPMN.1483:

So what’s the solution?

Remove MMR.

If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.

I call BS on #1. It plain can’t be worse for those who suffer atm and that still do.

For one, if you would be paired randomly with ppl in your pip range you might actually know early victories instead of just defeat because the strong players would be mixed with the weaker ones rather than all on the same team vs the weaker players all on the other.

It would also help highlight individual skill because individuals would have the same conditions as anybody. No VIP express to heaven or hell courtesy of your high/low MMR making the 80% you do not control in any match of higher/lower quality.

Finally, it would also avoid the consequences of badly evaluating someone’s true level when MMR is significantly off reality. You would advance or not solely because you win or loose instead of because the system made it really hard for you to win or loose.

So if i get it right then this can happen:

Someone in diamond looses 1000 games in row. (Not a single win). I’m exagerrating to make the point more clear.

His mmr glicko points are completely Eaten.

Instead of giving him good players to compensate a little, so opposing team can’t roll over, he gets ALL THe trash of diamond paired with him. On top of this, enemy team can all be very good mmr glicko score players. And Anet considers this fair matchups?

I had a win streak until diamond. I’m finally loosing. Quite a lot so. Should i stop playing just protect myself from the above explained situation? I want Exalted legend badly. I’m a better then average player (give me someone to duel with and i win 70% of times, in team fights it’s more complex. And here is the issue: Yesterday i had same ele 3x on my team. He played well. Other 3 players played hugely bad. No pressure on enemy, no cap point prevention, no support to allies (heal, protection). When i finally downed 2 enemies on my own mostly, they just kept pew pewing from far, giving enemies a free rally. This happened 7x, 3 matches in row. (21x). I then went each time far (no other choice). I each time won it (duel, or 1 vs 2). Guess what happened.? Close + mid, + map mechanic got won by enemy…. jeezes.

I’m worse then any ESL player, or primordial legend from first season, but i’m not worse then the worst of diamond, not by long shot. But the system punished me from loosing to ESL classified people, cause a loosing streak, gives you the worst ppl in your team without compensating enemy team accordingly. What a crap Anet.

To think i got diamond this season, and only ruby last season, i must have some skill in me not?

So evan Lesh are you basically saying ‘if you are average in ruby and or diamond,’ and are average player, and unlucky i your first win streak, then you will get the worst of the worst on your team and get a very bad permanent loosing streak as punishment? Do you even want me to play anymore, wtf.

to OP. I wonder what the result is when you run players through season 1 , then take where they are and run them through season 2 which is what’s happening right now. Say 300 matches per season.

Mogar.9216:

style.6173:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

TPMN.1483:

So what’s the solution?

Remove MMR.

If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.

I don’t think the start would be worst. Because of the random factor, people will low skill can get lucky once in a while and get teamed with 3-4 really good players. Where now the low skill people are pretty much doomed to loss every match.

That’s how it should be…If you want good players in your team then get good yourself, you lose matches against more skilled opponents and that’s how it should be, you should not be reward just for playing ; if you play thousand of matches and still act the same way , why would you expect any better results? ….I wish people would post the API code to verify their “skill level”.

NeXeD.3042:

godsie.2864:

Sykper.6583:

Hmm, this is really great stuff.

Maybe there needs to be a saving grace match that boosts your MMR if you land in a massive losing streak, that will reset your MMR to prior to the maximum you had at the time if you win, or at least give you half to step up your game.

That might help those folks in ‘Hell’, which is actually a smaller % on that report than I thought there would be. Would those numbers be accurate? Who knows, but it could at least give credit to the existence of a hell. (Heaven can also be a problem too…)

nice idea or some sort of MMR resets during the season to help those who got off to a bad start but have worked to improve

Not sure anyone should have their MMR reset. If anyone remembers it was widely thought that tanking your MMR in early divisions in season 1 was the fastest way to get to legend….. now we want to reward those people who tanked on purpose?

Exactly, it cannot be a true reset.

Actually let’s think of it this way. S1 had a nice thing going where you gained or lost pips based on how well you did versus the other team’s chance to win. I think we should bring this back…with the MMR system we had in S2. Those ‘blowout’ games you probably wouldn’t lose any pips for like we saw people did in S2.

Take the best of both seasons, improve the algorithm a bit more, and wa-la we should have a better system overall. S2 did streamline some games, but it left a small % in the dust or a free ride on the Legend Train.

There’s a lot going on behind the scenes here we don’t see. I do believe a lot of players are actually suffering in MMR hell, but we have seen threads where some of this accused players showed vids of their videos and…well, you guys more or less laid the truth-bombs on their gameplay.

Honestly, the biggest issue with S2 is that it was probably built for a much larger range of players and skill-levels in mind. Instead, we all get waves of good or bad teammates on a daily basis. Rapid amounts of winning or losing streaks because we follow our same comrades to heaven or hell.

Supreme.3164:

Mogar.9216:

style.6173:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

TPMN.1483:

So what’s the solution?

Remove MMR.

If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.

I don’t think the start would be worst. Because of the random factor, people will low skill can get lucky once in a while and get teamed with 3-4 really good players. Where now the low skill people are pretty much doomed to loss every match.

That’s how it should be…If you want good players in your team then get good yourself, you lose matches against more skilled opponents and that’s how it should be, you should not be reward just for playing ; if you play thousand of matches and still act the same way , why would you expect any better results? ….I wish people would post the API code to verify their “skill level”.

wow ? just take a breath and think about what you are saying. If you match a team of NBA player vs a team of High school player do you really think the NBA players or the High school players are going to get any better after a game or even 100 games? People get better by practicing vs other people who are in the same skill level . That is why every REAL sport have levels like amateur, AA,AAA,Pro.

Mogar.9216:

Supreme.3164:

Mogar.9216:

style.6173:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

TPMN.1483:

So what’s the solution?

Remove MMR.

If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.

I don’t think the start would be worst. Because of the random factor, people will low skill can get lucky once in a while and get teamed with 3-4 really good players. Where now the low skill people are pretty much doomed to loss every match.

That’s how it should be…If you want good players in your team then get good yourself, you lose matches against more skilled opponents and that’s how it should be, you should not be reward just for playing ; if you play thousand of matches and still act the same way , why would you expect any better results? ….I wish people would post the API code to verify their “skill level”.

wow ? just take a breath and think about what you are saying. If you match a team of NBA player vs a team of High school player do you really think the NBA players or the High school players are going to get any better after a game or even 100 games? People get better by practicing vs other people who are in the same skill level . That is why every REAL sport have levels like amateur, AA,AAA,Pro.

Basically Vygotsky’s zone of proximal development is what you are getting at.

Supreme.3164:

Mogar.9216:

style.6173:

SneakyTouchy.6043:

TPMN.1483:

So what’s the solution?

Remove MMR.

If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.

I don’t think the start would be worst. Because of the random factor, people will low skill can get lucky once in a while and get teamed with 3-4 really good players. Where now the low skill people are pretty much doomed to loss every match.

That’s how it should be…If you want good players in your team then get good yourself, you lose matches against more skilled opponents and that’s how it should be, you should not be reward just for playing ; if you play thousand of matches and still act the same way , why would you expect any better results? ….I wish people would post the API code to verify their “skill level”.

You just don’t get it! it is very hard to continue improving yourself when you are 1 out if the 5 team – plz stop with the get good atitude I have worked and continue to work my socks off trying to improve but I cannot carry whole teams every match – and because with the losses you end up with worse and worse players it bcomes even harder to translate your personal improvement into wins because you are 1 out of 5!!

I don’t want reward for just playing – but for improvement maybe yes – !

Akachi.1352:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

abolish mmr and just match people randomly within division? Can’t be worse than it is now

Hell no. There’s nothing I hate more than having bads on my team.

Whatever they do you can count on one thing there will be plenty of complaining in season 3. Just like seasons 1 and 2. Everyone thinks they are a diamond or better player. I dont care what system they come up with you are always going to be limited by what is in the queue at a given time. If they go back to some kind of MMR averaging where players like me that have thousands of matches get matched with complete noobs all the time for team mates when I solo again I know I wont be staying around thats for sure. Im all for making things better but we should not go back toward MMR averaging and trying to force 50/50 outcomes. That imo rewards the worse players at least as much as this system rewards the better players by giving them lots of wins they woudl never get on there own.

brannigan.9831:

Whatever they do you can count on one thing there will be plenty of complaining in season 3. Just like seasons 1 and 2. Everyone thinks they are a diamond or better player. I dont care what system they come up with you are always going to be limited by what is in the queue at a given time. If they go back to some kind of MMR averaging where players like me that have thousands of matches get matched with complete noobs all the time again I know I wont be staying around thats for sure.

I swear, I might as well make this a cut and paste:
I’m not diamond quality I don’t deserve diamond. I do know that the following are mistakes:
Rushing enemy lord at 0 points. Running 2+ thieves and no eles or druid. Trying to take far 1v1 from a healing ele. Splitting 1home 2 beast 1mid 1 who goes to the middle of the map and demands 1v1s. Playing a build you just made up for the first time on a class you’ve never played and doing it in ranked. Afking after losing a skirmish. Suiciding 1v3 or 1v4. Running far after you’ve died to the same plaer 1v1 there 3 times.

All I want is to get to a point where my team doesn’t do these things. That’s all, that’s all most people complaining want.

Tenebria.7239:

brannigan.9831:

Whatever they do you can count on one thing there will be plenty of complaining in season 3. Just like seasons 1 and 2. Everyone thinks they are a diamond or better player. I dont care what system they come up with you are always going to be limited by what is in the queue at a given time. If they go back to some kind of MMR averaging where players like me that have thousands of matches get matched with complete noobs all the time again I know I wont be staying around thats for sure.

I swear, I might as well make this a cut and paste:
I’m not diamond quality I don’t deserve diamond. I do know that the following are mistakes:
Rushing enemy lord at 0 points. Running 2+ thieves and no eles or druid. Trying to take far 1v1 from a healing ele. Splitting 1home 2 beast 1mid 1 who goes to the middle of the map and demands 1v1s. Playing a build you just made up for the first time on a class you’ve never played and doing it in ranked. Afking after losing a skirmish. Suiciding 1v3 or 1v4. Running far after you’ve died to the same plaer 1v1 there 3 times.

All I want is to get to a point where my team doesn’t do these things. That’s all, that’s all most people complaining want.

yes agree +1 with this I would just like to see the chance that hard work and effort on my part might be recognized with maybe some sort of progression IF I improve and that I can get to wherever my skill can – I will never be a legendary don’t want to be either judging by all the elitism in show in the forums

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Akachi.1352:

Evan Lesh.3295:

This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.

abolish mmr and just match people randomly within division? Can’t be worse than it is now

They need a combination of S1 and S2 and maybe smarter mmr, as opposed to no mmr.

But what was wrong with season one? Creating teams so that each one has a 50% chance to win made sense =/

It made the ladder grindable and caused a lot of frustration with good players, because they usually were put in teams with 4 bad players… more often than not against a team of 5 average players or 2+ playerteams.

It basically forced a 50% win-loss-ratio on everybody, and if you dared to get better…. you got punished with worse and worse teammates, until you got the bottomfeeders.

So, matching teams internally according to mmr was the logic solution. Matching teams against each other solely based on pip-range was not. Anet went overboard with that one… as they tend to always do. It doesnt matter which part of the game, anet is always “overfixing” stuff.

Yasi.9065:

It made the ladder grindable and caused a lot of frustration with good players, because they usually were put in teams with 4 bad players… more often than not against a team of 5 average players or 2+ playerteams.

It basically forced a 50% win-loss-ratio on everybody, and if you dared to get better…. you got punished with worse and worse teammates, until you got the bottomfeeders.

So, matching teams internally according to mmr was the logic solution. Matching teams against each other solely based on pip-range was not. Anet went overboard with that one… as they tend to always do. It doesnt matter which part of the game, anet is always “overfixing” stuff.

I ca understand that and agree with this
but then why do these same good players who did not then want to play with the bad players now make alts and come to lower divisions and seem to want to play with these same bad players the ones they wanted to get away from in S1 !
makes no sense – or “cake and eat it”

Wow thanks alot!!!!! I have 5000 plus games of experience playing GW2 pvp and cannot win a match as I am in mmr hell. I almost always play mesmer. I rated 32 on first old style leader board. I was 76 on second board but had low win ratio with account “1”. My kids account had HOT so I began using it as I cannot afford HOT for both accounts and wanted to try using chrono during season 1.I got nearly to diamond grinding PUG matches. I always PUG as I find it more relaxing and do not want to TS with kids when I am 50 years old. Season 2 I began season with 38 game losing streak. but as I am an avid player so I continued until I realized the mmr was ruining my game so I quit playing. during this time the best I could do was to win 10% of matches. I literally played 150 matches and could not gain a tier in sapphire, so I sat in lobby yellinkittenanet until they actually removed my tongue and would not allow me to speak in say chat LOL. Then I began to just run to mid and wait to die until that seemed pointless then I quit playing and got very depressed in real life. Thank you so much for crunching the stats. the end game of being abused is to blame one’s self for the abuse. I don’t go there as I believe in myself but was nearly there. I was bored tonite so I checked the chats and saw this and am relieved to see scientific basis for the MMR hell. Thank you again andkittenAnet.

Oh yea my other account is Kilter.9614 btw if anyone cares lol

U guys are blowing MMR hell way out of proportions.

In the vast majority of cases of ppl shouting it during games, those where the exact players that where dragging their team down skill wise.

MMR hell is some cases is caused by luck. What i mean by that is that in some cases ppl get lucky winstreaks and end up in divisions above their skilllevel. Since Anets horrible system has safeguards (u cant lose divisions and in some cases tiers) those players cant go back to where they belong division wise.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

So if i get it right then this can happen:

Someone in diamond looses 1000 games in row. (Not a single win). I’m exagerrating to make the point more clear.

His mmr glicko points are completely Eaten.

Instead of giving him good players to compensate a little, so opposing team can’t roll over, he gets ALL THe trash of diamond paired with him. On top of this, enemy team can all be very good mmr glicko score players. And Anet considers this fair matchups?

I had a win streak until diamond. I’m finally loosing. Quite a lot so. Should i stop playing just protect myself from the above explained situation? I want Exalted legend badly. I’m a better then average player (…).

1) In theory, it should not happen that a player once he reached a certain division loses 1000 games in a row. In theory, a player ranks up until he reaches the point where his mmr equals his league-rank. Then the player will have as much wins as losses. In practice, it does. I think nobody experienced 1000 losses but I read about players with a win/loss ratio of 40/60 or 30/70.

2) In theory, the mmr will not get “eaten”. The loss in mmr depends on the mmr of the opposing team. In other words: If you have to play with the lowest of diamond against the highest of diamond, you will not lose anything. In practice, your mmr can get eaten if you have a long loss streak and no wins. I don’t know how the game does the roundings, so I won’t speculate about the exact amounts. However, even if there is a substantial gap, a player loses mmr in case of a loss. In your example (1000 losses, no win), a loss in mmr is quiet likely even if your team has the lowest mmr compared to all its opponents.

3) As an above average player, you are supposed to end in a high division. Hence, if your self-assessment is correct, you could well be in the “right” division. I never saw you playing and I don’t know much about you. Therefore, I will not want to give a clearer statement.

I agree that always even 50% win/loss is stupid also. but random teamates of same division would eliminate all complaints, wouldn’kitten roll a 20 and get a good team, roll a 10 get aneven match, roll a 1 and get ganked. Any D&D player would agree LOL.

sorry for typos. wouldn’t it not kitten ROFL

gloflop.3510:

1) In theory, it should not happen that a player once he reached a certain division loses 1000 games in a row. In theory, a player ranks up until he reaches the point where his mmr equals his league-rank. Then the player will have as much wins as losses. In practice, it does. I think nobody experienced 1000 losses but I read about players with a win/loss ratio of 40/60 or 30/70.

That would be the case if losing divsions (+ in some cases tiers) was a thing. If that was the case divisions would be a better representation of skill. Right now lucky streaks due to DCs etc can mean ppl get pushed up to divisions where they dont belong.