Guild Wars 2

KarlaGrey.5903:

Andele.1306:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits#Necromancer_traits; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_UzwdXK5CU and for lich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfE_Xu9H1Bw at 11ish minutes – just from beta 1 to 2, on the old press demo/alpha lich dropped a orb/urn that had around 50k hp (but low armor) and made lich immortal till destroyed (2 was a 3 second 1 minion spawn, 3 the vuln, 4 aura of chill, 5 aura of fear), DS let you absorb life force while in in and upon exiting worked like spectral walks second activation (you ported to where you entered DS).
Also we had pretty much permanent stability, perma retaliation, DS was a stun break and in addition to corruptions there were sacrifices that gave condition like effect for user hp, also like every 4th ability siphoned hp (as seeon on warhorn and staff in TBs video).

Also sweet old 50% damage reduction for 11 seconds on a 60 second cooldown from Sarmor…

We were really OP, that’s a fact. But I don’t get why they had to nerf us so hard when they are talking 24/7 about taking little steps of balance….
I mean DS nerfed, life steal nerfed, Lich nerfed…. why so much? That’s the thing I hate about ArenaNet, they say one thing and they do a totally different thing and don’t fix their mistakes 9 months ahead, so dissapointing.

So basically…

What we will get:

More or better cripple/chills/pulls
Improved weakness

What we may get:

Some improvements to DS (nr5 skill)
More reliable condition damage (damage spreaded over different conditions, not just ‘pure’ bleed stacking)

What we will not get:

Access to vigor
Better access to stability
Dark Path ground targeted (again) or any other leaps

Does this mean that if I want to roam with a necromancer in WvW, I have to reroll my necro to a norn necromancer so I can use the kitty cat elite as a reliable source of escaping multiple people every 3+ minutes?

All I ask for is just having Dark Path ground targeted again as at the moment I can’t even keep up with my allies.

We would still be slow, we would still lack stability, we would still lack vigor, all I need is one reliable method of jumping 1200 or even 900 radius so I don’t need to level up a norn necromancer just because I love roaming.

So has anyone else noticed with the recent change in blink that Necrotic Traversal (flesh wurm blink) doesnt always work? that was our only disengage and, although it works in some most spots, but if you walked from the original spot you placed it and happened to walk past a wall, it wont blink you even towards the wall (im not talking through the wall) so you just stand there taking the mes burst, thief gance, etc.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

KarlaGrey.5903:

Andele.1306:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_historical_traits#Necromancer_traits; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_UzwdXK5CU and for lich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfE_Xu9H1Bw at 11ish minutes – just from beta 1 to 2, on the old press demo/alpha lich dropped a orb/urn that had around 50k hp (but low armor) and made lich immortal till destroyed (2 was a 3 second 1 minion spawn, 3 the vuln, 4 aura of chill, 5 aura of fear), DS let you absorb life force while in in and upon exiting worked like spectral walks second activation (you ported to where you entered DS).
Also we had pretty much permanent stability, perma retaliation, DS was a stun break and in addition to corruptions there were sacrifices that gave condition like effect for user hp, also like every 4th ability siphoned hp (as seeon on warhorn and staff in TBs video).

Also sweet old 50% damage reduction for 11 seconds on a 60 second cooldown from Sarmor…

We were really OP, that’s a fact. But I don’t get why they had to nerf us so hard when they are talking 24/7 about taking little steps of balance….
I mean DS nerfed, life steal nerfed, Lich nerfed…. why so much? That’s the thing I hate about ArenaNet, they say one thing and they do a totally different thing and don’t fix their mistakes 9 months ahead, so dissapointing.

Agreed. The incredibly slow response to the complete broken-ness of necros is disheartening. They were so fast to nerf yet take ages to bring up to speed. I’m honestly not caring anymore lol. It’s obviously not a pressing matter to them.

It’s really upsetting to me since I had a couple of friends who bought the game not too long ago. They tried all classes and were so disgusted with the obvious favoritism to certain classes they just ditched the game entirely. I used to keep telling them that Anet will fix it all but I just gave up lol.

Balance is just absent. qq

switched my necro to D/D with runes of swiftness, sigils of speed etc..
totally ruined my build, my usefullness, playability of my necro, but atleast i can keep up with my group now ^^

After reading trough this post and becoming more depressed, spvp competitions say it all, necro is utterly useless.

But i guess i will keep playing it since i dropped a fortune on it.

Honestly, It really is saddening on all fronts what they are doing to the necromancer. Our damage is not exactly fine, but it isn’t too big of a problem. What is a problem is how we handle the war of attrition. In this stage of the game, with the CD , no healing, lack of stunbreak and overall tankiness of Death shroud vs other players who spec to be attrition based. Yes, I understand the devs do not want us to be just a different kind of Guardian or ele, but the thing is that compared to these classes and ranger, They simply do attrition better than us. On all fronts, and in different ways. For guardians its primarily blinds+ blocks. for Ele its healing, boon rotations (small bit of each), and invuln. Ranger it is high endurance, very low regen and dodge on weapon abilities. All of them have a way to negate damage in some form of fashion and it really is what gives them a chance in the attrition way. You can mitigate damage as much as you want, but if you have a chance to negate it, the survivability in a fight shoots up a degree because in the case of invuln and dodges, the damage limit of what you can sustain for that instance is not there. there is a damage limit to how DS works in its current form which nails it in the coffin (and even if the DS does come back immediately after you lose it, still a 10s CD! 5s if traited). It needs a change.

and even if we are discounting the whole design philosophy of the class, there is still always the problem with stun breaks, stability, and in-combat mobility.

Well we can suppose that judging by the last SOTG we are going to get better LF generation and possibly life stealing will scale with healing but this won’t solve the core problem which was again described in the post above. Other classes have good access mechanics to COMPLETELY AVOID damage+CC for a short period of time. Our mechanic is limited by the amount of damage we can absorb and it doesn’t block or avoid CC in any way unless you go 30 into soul reaping and even then it’s kind of meh. They mentioned that they do not want to give us more stability access or any vigor since we are supposed to be this unique no boon class, that’s all cool and all if anyone wants to feel special but we will just continue to be this pinball class while others keep having all their good access to invuln mechanics which are evades, invulns, blocks and etc.

Basically necro is a class that’s supposed to eat damage and catches every brick that flies towards him with his teeth. I can somehow live with DS being a damage absorption mechanic but something needs to be done regarding the CC vulnerability, seriously. Other invuln mechanics work as both anti damage and anti CC, ours doesn’t work as anti CC and falls off very quickly in it’s anti damage role too.

Something has been mentioned regarding stunbreakers though, like they are going to have a look on them in general for all classes but we need to see how it works out. I’m not gonna have my hopes too high since I cannot see our current mechanic in this games current environment.

What I fear is that they will put the defensive mechanics to DS. For first it sounded great, but DS 2 can be useful for chill and bleed, however if they make it a Blink then it’s a change i welcome, and hopefully they will consider the fear (skill 3) a defensive mechanic and keep it, but our skill 4 is the thing that worries me.
Not the best skill in-game and can be interrupted easily not to mention it has an epic huge CD, but still as a condi nec it is our best and almost only working counter against engi turrets, mesmer clones and other summoned foes.
If they take that out, we will have some new problems.

Also if we want to use the new condi, we have to go to DS, cast it, and leave ds to continue applying dots. This means we can’t enter out defensive mechanic in the next 10 secs. Can be an intresting new mechanic to deal with but only if DS 5 is worth the risk.

Gandarel.5091:

Also if we want to use the new condi, we have to go to DS, cast it, and leave ds to continue applying dots. This means we can’t enter out defensive mechanic in the next 10 secs. Can be an intresting new mechanic to deal with but only if DS 5 is worth the risk.

It’s very strange to call it a new mechanic…. How is it new when in current practice(depending on the build) you burn your 10 second DS CD to get fury, stability, cast dark path, cast doom, proc the wekening shroud and etc.? How can it be called new?

I suggest they add the 15% CDR from Path of Midnight into Speed of Shdows as I see SoS hardly ever used.

This would free up a slot for a new trait, and I would love to have it be a trait that changes the Dark Path into a new skill:

On the Haunt
1/2 second cast time
ground targeted 1000 range leap (jumps as fast as warrior sword #2)
does the same amount of chill and bleed as Dark Path does but in a 120 radius aoe

I know ground targeted DS2 was removed in beta but I think it deserves another chance as a leap instead that costs 10 trait points as the game has changed alot since release.

This would also not prevent people using Dark Path as it is now. This would also allow the necromancer to spec into some limited mobility and I think a trait slot and 200 range less is a fair price for the leap (which is affected by movement speed).

DarnDevil IV.2143:

I know ground targeted DS2 was removed in beta but I think it deserves another chance as a leap instead that costs 10 trait points as the game has changed alot since release.

The pre-release nerf hammered a lot of different aspects of Necromancer. Frankly I can’t understand why it has gone this long without some of it coming back, because even when Necro was getting a decent amount of play you didn’t hear anyone saying “OMG, Necro is out of control. Needs nerf.”

I guess we will see in a few days. Hopefully they actually address the issue in this alleged balance pass rather than kicking the can down the road yet again.

Iceflame.5024:

Gandarel.5091:

Also if we want to use the new condi, we have to go to DS, cast it, and leave ds to continue applying dots. This means we can’t enter out defensive mechanic in the next 10 secs. Can be an intresting new mechanic to deal with but only if DS 5 is worth the risk.

It’s very strange to call it a new mechanic…. How is it new when in current practice(depending on the build) you burn your 10 second DS CD to get fury, stability, cast dark path, cast doom, proc the wekening shroud and etc.? How can it be called new?

Noone uses up DS just to cast these (except for stability before stomping). Fury is useless as a condi nec, usually if you are using up DS you are in trouble. Tp proc weakening shroud means that you are in the middle of the fight which isn’t the place a condi nec should be, and even leaving shroud in that sitation is the worst idea.

Gandarel.5091:

Noone uses up DS just to cast these (except for stability before stomping). Fury is useless as a condi nec, usually if you are using up DS you are in trouble. Tp proc weakening shroud means that you are in the middle of the fight which isn’t the place a condi nec should be, and even leaving shroud in that sitation is the worst idea.

It’s a very brave thing to do to speak for everyone and say that noone uses it like that… There are other builds besides condi out there. I believe a lot of people actually do use DS to proc that stuff so, again, nothing new. I personally use it to get doom and dark path out in my rotations a lot of times. DS has a lot of offensive usage even now, where you just burn the CD to get something out of it.

Gandarel.5091:

Noone uses up DS just to cast these (except for stability before stomping). Fury is useless as a condi nec, usually if you are using up DS you are in trouble. Tp proc weakening shroud means that you are in the middle of the fight which isn’t the place a condi nec should be, and even leaving shroud in that sitation is the worst idea.

If you’re a condi necro and are not using DS#2 and #3 in your rotation at some point (DS2 should be used on CD in most cases) then you are doing it wrong.

Just saying.

I tried to use a DS dancing build built around the retal, fury, condi remove on entering DS.

The problem is that when you flash in flash out all your actions except dodging and moving will be prevented for 0.5-1 second

you do this every 5 seconds and this means that if you fight for a 30sec fight you are actually “dazed” for 3 to 6 seconds during that time, making you have effectively 10-20% “self daze” uptime, which is why I actually gave up Near to Death in all of my builds

what a great build..

This thread is never going to go away. Not until Necro gets fixed.

Practice of thread Necromancy – Accomplished.

Look back at the collective suggestions in this thread for weapon, trait and utility changes made by posters (not just me) and keep this moving along constructively.

This is one of the best threads that has been on these forums since launch.

Chesire.9043:

Gandarel.5091:

Noone uses up DS just to cast these (except for stability before stomping). Fury is useless as a condi nec, usually if you are using up DS you are in trouble. Tp proc weakening shroud means that you are in the middle of the fight which isn’t the place a condi nec should be, and even leaving shroud in that sitation is the worst idea.

If you’re a condi necro and are not using DS#2 and #3 in your rotation at some point (DS2 should be used on CD in most cases) then you are doing it wrong.

Just saying.

Thank you captain, but skill #3 is not a faceroll skill and should be kept for an important situation. And I don’t enter ds just to cast skill 2 (also because i won’t be able t cast skill 3 whenever i want), mostly if i don’t want to be teleported to the facerape party at midpoint.

If DS3 and 2 are not in your rotation constantly then that is probably why you are failing at the class, just saying. They are extremely important. The best defense is a good offense. They can’t put pressure on you if you have them running for the hills. My rotation is very simple. Start in staff, cast my blood is power for 10 stacks of quick might, staff 2, 3, drop fear, drop 2 again, charge pet, DS, 3, 2, a few 1’s while fury is up, switch to scepter/dagger, drop 2, 5, a few 1’s, game over. If they are still alive, after throwing as many 1’s as I can, I switch back to my staff and do it all over again, usually fear and pet charge are not quite up yet, but that doesn’t stop me, drop my 2, 3, sometimes a 4, switch to DS, 3, 2, 4, 1, scepter, 2, 5, 111111111, you get the point.

galandor.1059:

If DS3 and 2 are not in your rotation constantly then that is probably why you are failing at the class, just saying. …you get the point.

Those skills are very important, but if you are spamming them on re-pop constantly, then you are doing it wrong. You apparently do not get the point.

You are advocating buttonmashing the some of the only skills that have team utility (Staff 5) and self-defense (Shroud 3) and mindlessly spamming them.

This gets you dead, and screws your team unless you are playing against bads.

“Just saying.”

Well I think DS#2 is worth using it off cd if you have a situation where you can afford to jump in and out. If you have a premade against you that forcefully tracks you down and focuses you every time you cannot afford to use DS#2 but in this situation you will most likely not be able to do anything pretty much. So far my sPVP games let me use DS#2 quite a bit even in team fights, DS#2 into a geomancy weapon swap into a dodge back or necrotic traversal out if things get bad.

DS#3 in my build is a 1,7-1,85 second terror fear on a 17 second CD and I use it a lot in different situations. I specifically specced into a few things including this DS#3 so not using it is a waste, and the CD isn’t that high. So in the end I use DS abilities including life blast a lot in my rotations. Thing is if you get focused, DS won’t help that much anyways, it is spectral walk or necrotic traversal that help a lot in these situations. Locust swarm and a 4 second wail of doom daze helps in some of these situations as well.

Sorry Anet, but you did nothing to help our builds, and actually made other builds harder to achieve now. Build diversity out the window. Thanks. Necro will not be all of a sudden more viable in pvp, because it wont effect anything at the higher meta. Mark my words.

Gryph.8237:

Sorry Anet, but you did nothing to help our builds, and actually made other builds harder to achieve now. Build diversity out the window. Thanks. Necro will not be all of a sudden more viable in pvp, because it wont effect anything at the higher meta. Mark my words.

C’mon man. wait until we have confirmed patch notes before you start blowing them up.

If the rumors are accurate, then you have a point, but we don’t know whats up for sure yet.

Didnt check’d Necro after patch. So how did things change ?)

A lot of very strong buffs. Well CD’s reduced across the board, spectral skills remaining in DS. Life Blast modified so it’s much stronger and very fast underwater.

The only complaint is moving terror from adept to master but I’m okay with this.

emon.1863:

Didnt check’d Necro after patch. So how did things change ?)

Signet of Undeath got destroyed, you can no longer see players with that. +1 sec cast, now it is 3.

Gandarel.5091:

emon.1863:

Didnt check’d Necro after patch. So how did things change ?)

Signet of Undeath got destroyed, you can no longer see players with that. +1 sec cast, now it is 3.

it might be because necros kill everything so well without undeath that they can’t justify taking it over a utility slot.

It also doesn’t hurt that deathshroud is practically free now so having a signet sit there is sorta pointless.

Also to answer the title: The state of the necro is kittening broken. They’re overpowered and desperately need a nerf before we see teams smart enough to stack them like they did eles back in the day.

Coming from an engi.
/palm

Ostricheggs.3742:

Gandarel.5091:

emon.1863:

Didnt check’d Necro after patch. So how did things change ?)

Signet of Undeath got destroyed, you can no longer see players with that. +1 sec cast, now it is 3.

it might be because necros kill everything so well without undeath that they can’t justify taking it over a utility slot.

It also doesn’t hurt that deathshroud is practically free now so having a signet sit there is sorta pointless.

Also to answer the title: The state of the necro is kittening broken. They’re overpowered and desperately need a nerf before we see teams smart enough to stack them like they did eles back in the day.

And why is Necro OP now ? It looks more like it is fixed, but it is deffenetly not OP (according on patch notes).

Ostricheggs.3742:

Also to answer the title: The state of the necro is kittening broken. They’re overpowered and desperately need a nerf before we see teams smart enough to stack them like they did eles back in the day.

It would be nice to specify the builds/abilities/combos that you think are making necros broken.

Well i don’t play necro so i can’t express an opinion on nerfs/buffs but i have to say i don’t really feel necros being so op after patch, probably stronger than before but for sure not so op like crazy bm with insane pet’s crits and pre-nerf eles, not even close..from an “against them” point of view..

Necros can really shut down some players. I have to say it takes much more effort to fight against a necro now than before the patch.
Although this level of strength is not strange in this game, I think it’s been a bit foreign to the necro community and that’s what has made necros (including me) so excited about the new changes.
Even though necros really deserved some buffs, I won’t make any comment against the “necro became OP” arguments as only time will tell, but I certainly acknowledge a huge increase in our effectiveness.
Remember though, necros still have their primary weaknesses: lack of hard defense (blocks/evasion/invulnerability/etc), lack of a reliable way to disengage and so on which can be used against them.

Ostricheggs.3742:

it might be because necros kill everything so well without undeath that they can’t justify taking it over a utility slot.

It also doesn’t hurt that deathshroud is practically free now so having a signet sit there is sorta pointless.

Also to answer the title: The state of the necro is kittening broken. They’re overpowered and desperately need a nerf before we see teams smart enough to stack them like they did eles back in the day.

It troubles me to see a player as good as you reacting so harshly to the patch so quickly. Teams are already stacking necros. That is a natural progression when a major balance patch comes, and one profession is perceived to get the “best” goodies. I think being alarmist about it and crying nerf is counter-productive, especially within 48 hours of patch when you could not have possibly tried everything to counter yet.

You got game man, but stacking Necros is not remotely the same as Ele stacking. They can’t move, lack defense, they’re squishy and they can’t disengage.