Guild Wars 2

I have spent a considerable amount of time in the realm of sPVP, I have reached level 20, and have a lot of experience in the tournaments. I can say, with a clear conscience that there isn’t an overpowered class. A few select abilities may be fractionally more powerful than they should be, but it’s far from game breaking. There is however a few classes/ weapon-sets that deserve a few buffs, but that isn’t the point of this post. I simply think the real problem is people are not trying to learn and get better. They just want to win; I hate to break it to those people but there will never be an iWin button. Just my view, constructive comments appreciated.

De Nile. Its not just a river.

what total nonsense… guardians and warriors are playing in godmode… try playing a necro against a guardian and tell me that this game is in any way shape or form, balanced.

There’s things from most classes that validate balance complaints.

However you respawn in 15 seconds, Or less. Dieing with one hit, or just dieing very quickly isn’t that big of a deal here in casual formats.

Aside from wvw where your armor repairs can cost you arms, legs, heads, and genitals, aside from this wvw is casual and it’s fine there.

Ezeriel.9574:

what total nonsense… guardians and warriors are playing in godmode… try playing a necro against a guardian and tell me that this game is in any way shape or form, balanced.

If you are a Necro and having problems shutting down a Guardian. You my friend, are completely complimenting this post.

Respawning is every 20 seconds at the timings 58, 38,18 why I have no clue.

Also Ezeriel are you burst Necro or Condition Necro? Cause depending on the guardian one or the other is useless.

On my Guardian I can’t take ALOT of burst damage but I got no way to remove conditions which usually is what kills me. Due to low HP and the fact as I said I can’t remove them with my build.

Vulish.9683:

Ezeriel.9574:

what total nonsense… guardians and warriors are playing in godmode… try playing a necro against a guardian and tell me that this game is in any way shape or form, balanced.

If you are a Necro and having problems shutting down a Guardian. You my friend, are completely complimenting this post.

I’m afraid I am going to have to agree here, and with this whole thread in general. I have beaten all classes, and been beaten by all classes; The Former more so than the later, on necromancer.

really? necros are just baddies? cause stripping the boons off a guardian makes them OP, when that same guardian can kill you in the length of a stunlock? or knockdown? or whatever?

I’m sorry, but kiting a guardian for the 30-60 seconds it takes to kill a bad one is never going to be an option.

It is. That’s just it. Until you get over blaming everything else for you inability and lack of understanding and comprehension of how to handle certain situations, then maybe….you’ll get better.

The End.

I’m making efforts to get better, of course, that’s why I didn’t rerolled Thief/Guardian/Mesmer/Warrior. But you can’t say it is just a L2P issue.

Learn to counter a profession which is overpowered is a challange for every good player, but this is far from negating they are overpowered.

You guys who are claiming that all this moaning in the forum is a L2P issue, you have to read the overpowered definition, which, guess what, isn’t the same as unbeatable.

Looking at the title – Agreed.

People whine to much because they are terrible at the game, they level to 80 and still they are pathetic.

Im a ranger with a longbow and 2nd shortbow, I beat Guardians and Thiefs in 1v1 like its nothing, try telling me that they are overpowered.

Warriors: Check, Rocket boots or any other stun breaker that moves you.

Thief: Check, apply every single defensive skill even Elite (Dropping supply crate ontop of yourself when you see them disappear.

Mesmers: Knockback, Knockdown and general take akitten at them.

Guardian: Either squishy as hell against burst or squishy as hell against Conditions. Squishy against Conditions = Run if you’re burst… Squishy against Burst = Run if you’re Cond dmg. You’ll easily notice the difference.

@ErkiB using Quickening Zephyr with Shortbow? If so it’s easy and not much different from Warriors and Thiefs.

That’s how I solve those problems as an Engineer

I originally rolled a Guardian. Then I rolled Necro. My best friends/Guildies are Thief/Engineer/Ele/Hunter/Mesmer. We all Lan up about 5 times a week in my apartment, watch each others play styles, learn the others skills..etc

We do a lot of joining 0 player games late night and pvp around with each other. So they all thought my Guardian was unbeatable and I would murder them. Until literally i gave them all the tricks of the trade on how and MOST IMPORTANTLY WHEN to evade and WHEN to shut him down.

Patience, practice and awaiting the right time is to strike in this game is what it’s all about. Stop hoping to just smash keys and pop all your stuff and hope something dies.

That just isn’t what this games about. Someone will go on and say “Omg the thief smashes buttons and instantly kills me”

Well…all I can say is. Again…doing it wrong.

There are no tricks of the trade on how and when to evade and shut down a necro or ele. None are required.

The Boz.2038:

There are no tricks of the trade on how and when to evade and shut down a necro or ele. None are required.

True.
The fact that you need special attention to beat some professions mean something is wrong with balancing. If you add this to the fact that in PvP Mesmers, Thieves and Guardians are overplayed, here you have the full picture of the PvP, where according to some player, the balance is perfect at launch.

So why in Guild Wars ArenaNet took 7 years to fully balance the game considering that the mechanics of that game were way simpler?

So why in Guild Wars ArenaNet took 7 years to fully balance the game considering that the mechanics of that game were way simpler?

You don’t understand what they have done here.

They don’t really want balanced in the same sense of guildwars one.

It’s because it is funner for these types of formats.

This is why when or if they make gvg, they need a buff you cannot see that takes all damage down by about 25% maybe more to get it down to guildwars 1’s level for that specific type of teamplay. And I mean all damage not just one class or two.

True Titus :P
2 weeks ago we had ppl whining about the burst-heal of Elemental + Necromancers survibility + the UP Enginners + Mesmers clone shatter do a hell lower damage that the 1st beta , but for some reason those things changed :P

R E F L H E X.8413:

You don’t understand what they have done here.

They don’t really want balanced in the same sense of guildwars one.

It’s because it is funner for these types of formats.

This is why when or if they make gvg, they need a buff you cannot see that takes all damage down by about 25% maybe more to get it down to guildwars 1’s level for that specific type of teamplay. And I mean all damage not just one class or two.

So you are saying that the game is balanced as it is now?
I really didn’t understand what you meant with that post, maybe because English isn’t my mother language.

sorrow.2364:

R E F L H E X.8413:

You don’t understand what they have done here.

They don’t really want balanced in the same sense of guildwars one.

It’s because it is funner for these types of formats.

This is why when or if they make gvg, they need a buff you cannot see that takes all damage down by about 25% maybe more to get it down to guildwars 1’s level for that specific type of teamplay. And I mean all damage not just one class or two.

So you are saying that there is a chance that the game is balanced as it is now?

What I am saying is.

If a warrior can one hit an engineer, but the engineer can 3 shot him from a distance, this can be seen as a form of balanced in these kinds of formats.

You respawn in 15 seconds, and it is casual. It is made to be funner for the fast respawn type formats.

Once you get into arenas/gvg this type of gameplay makes those unplayable, which is why you need to really balance it more (by taking down all the damage would greatly improve the teamplay and make it more balanced in the sense of balance you are talking about).

sorrow.2364:

True.
The fact that you need special attention to beat some professions mean something is wrong with balancing.

Right.

There needs to be special attention to every class to beat them. That should be the standard. Not nerf a profession into oblivion because you think your class isn’t powerful (When in many respects, every class is.)

Balancing tweeks at this stage should be in the bug fixing and upwards motion, not nerfs. I’m of the opinion that Necro could use a couple stronger escape skills or faster retimers on their fears.

Other than that, you DO need to pay special attention to each class, in every fight. Nobody should go ignored and if they are, they’re likely doing something very wrong.

Oh, and as far as no tricks of the trade to shut down an Ele. They’re dead wrong and should stop basing their opinion on bad elementalists.

There isn’t an overpowered class, just underpowered players…

Some classes are full of bugs whereas other classes are fine, It’s just plain fact your thread is useless since you just can’t deny it. That makes the game in its current state imbalanced, period.

If all the players playing elementalist, warlock, and engineer are bad and all the players playing Mesmer’s, Guardian’s and Theives great I say we just make those 3 classes worse and the other 3 stronger since hell those players are SOOOO GOOD they’ll easily adapt to the changes and win.

See how your logic fail can be bent.

I have no idea how skilled I am on my elementalist. Not very, I’m sure, though it is leveled to 80 at least. I’m even less skilled on my level two thief.

Why is it, then, that I perform so much better on my thief? More kills, more caps, more teammate revivals and I never swap out of D/D. Hell, I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve remembered to use my thief’s signets, and I barely remember to use the elite half of the time. I’m the epitome of a terrible thief. But I do better on it.

Let me put it this way. On my glass cannon specced thief, I sometimes remember to steal, then I run around in circles spamming 1 until they’re at 50%, then I run around in circles spamming 2 until they die. Occassionally I’ll throw in a 3, and if I’ve been chasing someone for 20 seconds I’ll remember that I have a 4. Against pretty much anything but a mesmer, this will net me a kill.

On my toughness/power specced elementalist, I’ll ride the lightning in, activate armour of earth, switch to earth attunement, use earthquake, channel churning earth, flash to them if they leave the churning earth AoE, switch to fire attunement (if I’m not dead by this point), go through that five button rotation and… Sometimes they die. If they don’t have a condition removal. Or they haven’t killed me yet. Or they didn’t dodge anything.

Even if I could net a kill going through all of that on an Ele, why bother when a thief can do it with a third of the skills? Skill level has nothing to do with it, at best I’m moderately skilled at Ele and poorly skilled at thief. There’s obviously a problem with certain classes and honestly, I’m not sure how anyone can argue against that.

So instant repairing Trebs is fair for mesmers? Or being able to cast phantasms without being LoS is fair? I’m a bit confused if repairing the treb instantly is in any way but game breaking. Only way to counter is with another Mesmer to do the same thing. Atm mesmers are the best 1v1ers in the game. They have the most amount of get aways than any class in terms invunerabilities/teleports/stealth. They have too many ways to survive, without sacrificing damage. In tournament the most successful teams run a mesmer or 2.

Guardian is balanced

Thief is balanced

Mesmer is not balanced

People just need to understand that ANet wants to balance for team tournament play, over the long term.

So theorycrafting doesnt matter, WvW doesnt matter, casual PvP doesnt matter. The classes will be UP or OP in those situations based on their strengths and weaknesses.

Ultimately, the most important data ANet will look at when balancing is how often various classes are used in competitive tournaments and how they are used. They will get this information from their own data mining, not from whiners on the forums.

Of course, until we get proper matchmaking so high-level tournaments are possible, they can’t get started on that.

Until then, feel free to report bugs – but don’t bother talking about balance.

Tournament play is not more important then wvwvw or PVE. tpvp is the staple of spvp not casual though. If they balanced only around Tournament play, they would have a mass exodus. Your philosophy just sounds like someone who only does spvp with a free 80. Hate to burst your bubble but you can only experience 1/3 of the game doing that.

Here is an easy way you can look at it. They wouldn’t have made the level cap 80 if they are primarily focused on Tournament play. They wouldn’t have spent all that time designing the tons of events, areas, and dungeons if they are primarily focused on Tournament play. They wouldn’t have created wvwvw with a huge matchmaking system by server and multiple maps, is they were primarily focused on Tournament play. With your philosophy you are really just telling Anet they are less intelligent then a monkey and are good at wasting tons of money.

Also, just a heads up, with the heartseeker change, whilst it doesn’t effect me because I rarely use it (I just hate the nerfy trends), I can guarantee it wasn’t based on data mining. This forum was littered with thread after thread on the front page with just a couple replies each clogging up the front page with just people complaining about an ability because they don’t feel like learning or taking the time to adapt. A-net gave in to the complainers, the bandwagon. So now since they expect they can get what they want, the same thing is going on now with multiple classes.

Rieselle I think its pretty pompous for to tell people their opinions dont matter, when the aspect of the game they enjoy playing is not enjoyable in its current state. Because what?? Your a uber leet tourney player and tourney players are all that matter?? Hows that hoss? Im pretty sure we all paid $60+ for this game and are free to enjoy it howeer we want and speak to our displeasure on that fact how we see fit.

Titus.9705:

I have spent a considerable amount of time in the realm of sPVP, I have reached level 20, and have a lot of experience in the tournaments. I can say, with a clear conscience that there isn’t an overpowered class. A few select abilities may be fractionally more powerful than they should be, but it’s far from game breaking. There is however a few classes/ weapon-sets that deserve a few buffs, but that isn’t the point of this post. I simply think the real problem is people are not trying to learn and get better. They just want to win; I hate to break it to those people but there will never be an iWin button. Just my view, constructive comments appreciated.

I hate to break it to you Mr. Level 20 but in some cases even real “I-Win” buttons exist. Moa morph versus a minion specced necromancer for example. All minions despawn and are put on their long cd (the mesmer just killed all ability skills and the elite skill) plus the mesmer gets 10 sec of a free go at the necro.

I know, I know a certain spec vs a class using a skill which often isn’t used in teamplay but anyway. That it exists says much about the current balance issues imo.

@Rieselle: Do you think the game could survive it would only cater to tournament players? Like it or hate it but the majority of players are casuals

Titus.9705:

I have spent a considerable amount of time in the realm of sPVP, I have reached level 20, and have a lot of experience in the tournaments. I can say, with a clear conscience that there isn’t an overpowered class. A few select abilities may be fractionally more powerful than they should be, but it’s far from game breaking. There is however a few classes/ weapon-sets that deserve a few buffs, but that isn’t the point of this post. I simply think the real problem is people are not trying to learn and get better. They just want to win; I hate to break it to those people but there will never be an iWin button. Just my view, constructive comments appreciated.

I agree mate, this is exactly how it is, nuff said

^^^ignorance abounds its about having fun and being competitive not having a insta win

The differences between skill cap is the issue. Each class should reward skill, but if you can just jump in a crowd and spam one or two buttons and cause a lot of damage or death game isn’t working as intended. Clever use of weapons and skill should be rewarding, and that’s not the case in some professions. Until that’s fixed, e-sport is not in sight. E-sport is for skilled people, not for casual button mashing people who just started to play. As it is now, you can be viable in some professions without having to think twice about pretty much anything and serious work around that would make the game interesting.

Geoff.6397:

There isn’t an overpowered class, just underpowered players…

Some classes are full of bugs whereas other classes are fine, It’s just plain fact your thread is useless since you just can’t deny it. That makes the game in its current state imbalanced, period.

That’s the end of the thread right there. The fact the OP relinquishes any fact that several classes have countless bugs detracting from their intended playstyle simply shows how ignorant the post is, and shows it for what it truly is: Soapboxing.

Why do you guy get annoyed? The OP is spot on.

If I roll certain classes (for the sake of argument I won’t bring them up) I am UP.
If I roll one of the 3 or 4 classes at the other end of the scale I am suddenly OP.

Of course I was playing devil’s advocate here. I meant:
Just face it. The balancing is so hideously bad (some classes are so good or bad designed) that they even compensate for much of the players’ individual skill. The sad thing is: gear isn’t even a big factor as in gear-based mmos’ pvp.

This can easily be seen that there are classes that if you do not dodge their one move or your stunbreaker is on cd they easily take about 60-75% of your lifepool in what feels a second or even in one huge blow. It also matters for organized group play: you cannot survive that burst once focused of 2 of those.

i agree with the OP. everyone’s focussing too much on their “dps” button. they’re not looking at their support abilities which can seriously change a fight from being hard to easy. i bet half the people complaining actually look at the five skills a weapon gives them and goes, “i won’t use 3 of those because the damage is too low. this needs buffz.”

the reason people think thieves are OP is because they look at heartseeker. which is, admittedly, big on the dps. but, really, if you’re dying too much by heartseeker, you might need to learn how to move. and seriously look at your skills. some of them are surprisingly helpful.

for the record, i play necro and ele in pvp. i’ve heard a lot of complaints about the ele being useless, but i think it’s fine, if not very powerful. though i watch other eles and noticed not many of them actually switch attunements in a fight. i’ll switch out 2-3 times at least in a 1v1 and rarely start with fire.

necro is obviously awesome. i don’t know why everyone’s not rolling necros. what’s this thing about thieves? they don’t seem to bother me too much. the hardest fight i ever had was, weirdly, against an ele. but he was doing a lot of switching, too, so knew what he was doing. the fight went 4-5 minutes and was awesome.

i seriously don’t think the balancing is out of whack. i’m loving spvp.

I sort of both agree and disagree. The functions of certain mesmer-abilities are really nice for a team. The function of a defensive guardian is really desired as well. The mobility, control and burst of thieves as well. Apart from some of the more flimsy things on mesmers I suppose they can be done by others. Things are not cut in stone, but some classes do stuff better than others.
@Vulish: Would love to hear more on that necro of yours. Speccs, tactics etc … so far it is giving me problems, but I am fully aware I am not doing it right.

Joke post?
Of course there are overpowered classes. It needs fixing.

MCDonalds isnt unhealthy, you just need to work out more.

Cars dont need brakes, you just drive too fast.

CEO’s of major banks arent way too rich, you’re just poor.

The amount of third grade discussion skills on these forums are staggering.

well it’s a known fact that these very very very unskilled players run to forums to whine as soon as they get pwned. they don’t see their incompetence and lack of skill in some situations so class x/skill y must be op.

it would be best to ban whiners as soon as they open a thread.

@buttski: They should ban people who talks bad in absolute without having a clue about what actually the situation is. People like you, for example.
Most people who are complaining about X class being overpowered are people who, after they have realized that dealing with X profession was always way harder than dealing with the others till the situation became frustrating, have tried out these professions and performed way better without having a minimum skill in that specific class and felt like the hundreds of hours they have spent on their main character to getting better was a total waste because the same or better results could be obtained in a quarter of the time.

Couldn’t agree more with the OP. Does anyone else find how ironic it is that in the same breath someone will complain about a glass cannon class with insane dps and then also complain about the class that probably hits the weakest of all classes yet just has amazing survivability?

Seems like a lot of people cry whenever they get challenged. I die and win a lot on all my classes and haven’t yet found a class I haven’t been able to take down one minute then die to them the next.

I seriously think the trend in certain classes is from all the qq on message boards getting people to see what all the fuss is about.

Ezeriel.9574:

what total nonsense… guardians and warriors are playing in godmode… try playing a necro against a guardian and tell me that this game is in any way shape or form, balanced.

A necro complaining about Guardian is as funny as it gets and proof this thread was sorely needed.

Sleaze.3748:

Couldn’t agree more with the OP. Does anyone else find how ironic it is that in the same breath someone will complain about a glass cannon class with insane dps and then also complain about the class that probably hits the weakest of all classes yet just has amazing survivability?

Seems like a lot of people cry whenever they get challenged. I die and win a lot on all my classes and haven’t yet found a class I haven’t been able to take down one minute then die to them the next.

I seriously think the trend in certain classes is from all the qq on message boards getting people to see what all the fuss is about.

I believe that less than 15% of players are reading the official forums. So if you did notice a trend it probably means more on the current balance than you actually think.

Geoff.6397:

Sleaze.3748:

Couldn’t agree more with the OP. Does anyone else find how ironic it is that in the same breath someone will complain about a glass cannon class with insane dps and then also complain about the class that probably hits the weakest of all classes yet just has amazing survivability?

Seems like a lot of people cry whenever they get challenged. I die and win a lot on all my classes and haven’t yet found a class I haven’t been able to take down one minute then die to them the next.

I seriously think the trend in certain classes is from all the qq on message boards getting people to see what all the fuss is about.

I believe that less than 15% of players are reading the official forums. So if you did notice a trend it probably means more on the current balance than you actually think.

Love when people make up their own “statistics”….

I didn’t make up this statistic, I’ve read it on WoW forum a while ago when I had the same argument as yours now. But you’re right I do not need any stats to be able to tell that saying “There is more and more Thieves, Guardian, andMesmer because people are QQing on the off forum” is pure BS

Yeah I know I get tired of all the krappy players. You know who is the most scary classes on the opposign team when I play? The classes the good players are playing. And I can figure out who they are pretty fast, I have had almost every class be a severe pain at some point. For me warriors and thieves are like the worst, good ranger can suck too. Seen engis that were unkillable, guardians too.

Its getting comical, I am hoping we will not see the wow nerf merry-go-round in GW2.

So you took a statistic someone else made up on a forum for a completely different game…. Well played…. Anyways my point had little to do with why people are playing these classes and instead why they’re complaining so much. Seems like any class right now that excels with a specific task is suddenly “op”

I think with the exception of maybe two classes people are playing the wrong builds and giving up too fast. A glass cannon build isn’t gonna work for everyone. Try getting creative…

In most mmos I have played there were a class like the rogue which pumped out enormous dps and the excuse was that the class would be squishy and like in GW2 they had escape mechanics to compensate.

Of course those “pros” yelled others down and telling them to “learn to play” – ironically never realizing that they were the ones needing training wheels all the time.

However, to be fair, the burst damage is just nuts in this game and it is not just the thief class. You realize that when you compare it to conditional build. Take a necro for example. His dots tick for 100-200ish. Now do the maths how long the stuff needs to tick to rival the damage (even with multiple dots) of a 15k backstab or heartseeker spam – that is if the conditions don’t get removed

Last but not least, this gets old very fast. The burst limits the choice of spec (e.g. you need stunbreakers, if you are too squishy a thief nearly 1-shots you etc).

But again, it is not about the thief class only but burst across the whole board.

I agree with the original poster.

There are no OP professions at the moment, just bad players who can’t adapt.

And adapting is a pretty big deal in PvP, that’s where the skill lies.

I’m ok with bad players being bad in 8v8. Theyll go to tournaments and still lose. Only problem is they come to forums and complain.

This will be forever true. A bad player is still a bad player no matter what class he plays. Many people dont seem to understand what it takes to be a good player. Looking through the thread if an necro is having a difficult time against a guardian then this proves my point.

Just remember everyone the devs do play their game including in pvp. They currently know whether or not something is as they intended or not (outside bugged traits and skills). So you can keep complaining and nothing change and rage more. Or you can just try to learn to adapt.