Guild Wars 2

When you start paid tournaments, you will see that a thief needs much more then this. I think you recommend your experience from hotjoin. There is the problem with them.

Quaker.1385:

Dismay.4729:

The only players that cannot handle a thief with 916 toughness are players that have not yet learned to utilize their skills and abilities who may also lack situational awareness. I’m going to pull a page from Sataar’s book and tell you to learn to play.

hmm….so the fact that i have 2500+ 3v3 arena xp at wow in cyclone bg eu,
if you know what i’m talking about,and i’m getting globaled by thieves in gw means that i have L2P issues…

Dude half the top teams in GW2 dont even run a thief. They are the fourth or fifth strongest class right now.
Ele,guard,mesmer

Then necro/theif/ranger ( you can argue the order of these classes , ranger getting alot of love right now. )

Then warrior/engy. bringing up the rear, hardly any teams run these in paids. Though i see teldoo do well in paids on his engy. I think hes a great player and would be doing even better on something else.

And engies can put out similar burst to thieves with 100 nades-thought its alot easier to see coming. Point is , if thiefs where So OP you’d see EVERY top team running them. Which you do with ele, guard and mesmer.
it FACTUALLY is a l2p issue, it really is. People can argue thiefs aren’t fun to fight against, or they are annoying, thats somewhat subjective but i can see where they are coming from.

People who argue thiefs are OP are literally demonstrating a lack of understanding of the game. My GOD play a elementalist and master it, and youll pretty much NEVER lose a 1on1 to a thief again. And have the most amazing ways to counter and recover from them.

Does that mean burst doesnt need a review? Maybe burst could use a second look, but if u take burst away from the thief with no compensation, youve basically killed the class because it isnt overrepresented in play at all right now, and will disspear if the one thing it offers isnt available anymore.

THIEVES ARE NOT OVERPOWERED.

Stiv.1820:

Burst thieves punish people with poor reflexes, utilities and builds much more than any other profession. No doubt they are noob slayers even if they are noobs themselves.. That’s all these screenshots prove.

Not really, I’ve watched plenty of streamers in “pro” teams that win the vast majority of their tPvP, every single one of them has been instagibbed by thieves, many have expressed the sentiment along the lines"thief burst is so stupid", “noobs” may be instagibbed much more, but plenty of people find the instagib mechanics unfun.

The ironic thing is, thieves are much more balanced in tPvP (though still unbalanced enough to make warriors redundant) and much easier to deal with in tPvP, because it is a 5v5, people actually play to win (thus play the objectives, rather than zerg it up) and for the most part only ever have to deal with 1 thief on the opposing team.

If you compare that to hotjoin, where it is not unusual to have 3 thieves (what a shock, noobs go straight to the faceroll OP classes!) on the opposing team, where people zerg it up and you have 8v8, so people blow through their cooldowns / dodges faster, magically have to keep their eyes on say 3 thieves (and everyone else), it simply tilts the balance further in the direction of burst and especially in favour of classes like thief who operate best taking people out whilst they have distractions in a team fight (for the same reasons GC warrior is much more effective in 8v8 hotjoin than tPvP).

In case you hadn’t noticed sPvP has flopped pretty badly, one of the reasons is as an introduction to structured PvP or as the casual “fun” end of it, it is simply terrible, in part due to poor class design like the thief, which is then magnified when it is combined with the greater team size and poorly designed incentives of hotjoin that lead people to zerg.

I dont know how people stand hot join for long. But i will concede, thiefs would probably be very annoying in hot join.
Thats still not a balance issue per se though.

Finally two players who bring it up that thief is “OP” in hotjoin but not in tPvP.

Still with this “Top teams don’t run it” bullkitten, if stealth wouldn’t de-cap a point , all we would see is bunker stealth thieves, with a game mode based on capturing point all you can hope to find is people trying to hold that point.

If they’d introduce a system where a single player would lose the point automatically if 2 enemies are standing on it, we wouldn’t have the current team set up.
Whatever other may play the problem with thieves strongly remain, they’re the main reason why people are forced to go full tank build.

A thief can stealth for more 10s and come unnoticed from behind the corner and strike you for over 10k dmg tank or no tank, there are no excuses really.

daydream.2938:

I dont know how people stand hot join for long. But i will concede, thiefs would probably be very annoying in hot join.
Thats still not a balance issue per se though.

I am a casual pvp’er who spends the majority of my time in hot joins and I agree 100% with the post you made previous to this one and was also going to say exactly this (what I’m quoting from you) – it’s just completely different in hot join because you have lots of < 20 rank players who do not know how to deal with thieves and are also playing solo with a “deathmatch” type of mind set. I think in tpvp a person getting bursted down by a thief is mostly an inconvenience because all their teammates are around with their various levels of support and then can easily rez that downed player – now the thief has to get out of dodge or go down very fast due to how squishy they are in compensation for their burst… yes they can easily get out of dodge with their superior mobility but at that point what good are they to their team?

The point is that I think what you said is 100% correct and basically teh game is completely different in hot join than in tpvp. I think it’s very subjective as to which is more important to balance around – you need spvp hot join to be reasonable or risk driving away all the new casual players that have the potential for becoming long time fans and growing the game.

Anyways kudos to your posts – well said.

If you go with the “who has more players on a point will cap it – thing” the whole tactics that made it competitive will be lost. Just take 5 eles roam arround, can’t diying, decaping everything. Seems not really a good idea to me. Sure you loose the static bunker-meta…

Arheundel.6451:

Still with this “Top teams don’t run it” bullkitten, if stealth wouldn’t de-cap a point , all we would see is bunker stealth thieves, with a game mode based on capturing point all you can hope to find is people trying to hold that point.

That argument is rather funny. It’s kind of saying : “If Stealth was changed in a way that made it OP, then it’d be OP and everyone would use it!”

stof.9341:

Arheundel.6451:

Still with this “Top teams don’t run it” bullkitten, if stealth wouldn’t de-cap a point , all we would see is bunker stealth thieves, with a game mode based on capturing point all you can hope to find is people trying to hold that point.

That argument is rather funny. It’s kind of saying : “If Stealth was changed in a way that made it OP, then it’d be OP and everyone would use it!”

exactly.
its not OP because its NOT OP.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

If you go with the “who has more players on a point will cap it – thing” the whole tactics that made it competitive will be lost. Just take 5 eles roam arround, can’t diying, decaping everything. Seems not really a good idea to me. Sure you loose the static bunker-meta…

Yeah show me a single video of eles not dying in tPvP, because of course every ele use cleric amulet with boon duration runes and signet of restoration, ..unleeeessss you try to tell me that an ele can bunker regardless of the amulet and runes, c’mon tell me an ele can bunker with a soldier amulet and 200 healing power

Our core ele is bunker with soldiers amulet, to avoid spikes aka bursts. Switch to water atunement and you’ll get 2k heal for a dodge + 2 heal skillz. It’s more then enough. When you have 2 eles on 1 point they can’t be killed because they just dual heal. In case of dying you have mist form + heal skill, then rtl out. heal up yourself and you can enter again.
Sure you can die, but that rarely happens. And never with 5 eles.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Our core ele is bunker with soldiers amulet, to avoid spikes aka bursts. Switch to water atunement and you’ll get 2k heal for a dodge + 2 heal skillz. It’s more then enough. When you have 2 eles on 1 point they can’t be killed because they just dual heal. In case of dying you have mist form + heal skill, then rtl out. heal up yourself and you can enter again.
Sure you can die, but that rarely happens. And never with 5 eles.

From one ele on a point you now got 2, I presume that’s completely different than having a single ele using soldier amulet, where he won’t survive at all against a combined spike or pressure from a single big dmg source.

Furthermore I dunno you, but with a soldier amulet a skilled mesmer can still bring you down to 20% HP in a single burst when he hits you and if you run away ..well that was the all point

Sylosi.6503:

Stiv.1820:

Burst thieves punish people with poor reflexes, utilities and builds much more than any other profession. No doubt they are noob slayers even if they are noobs themselves.. That’s all these screenshots prove.

Not really, I’ve watched plenty of streamers in “pro” teams that win the vast majority of their tPvP, every single one of them has been instagibbed by thieves, many have expressed the sentiment along the lines"thief burst is so stupid", “noobs” may be instagibbed much more, but plenty of people find the instagib mechanics unfun.

The ironic thing is, thieves are much more balanced in tPvP (though still unbalanced enough to make warriors redundant) and much easier to deal with in tPvP, because it is a 5v5, people actually play to win (thus play the objectives, rather than zerg it up) and for the most part only ever have to deal with 1 thief on the opposing team.

If you compare that to hotjoin, where it is not unusual to have 3 thieves (what a shock, noobs go straight to the faceroll OP classes!) on the opposing team, where people zerg it up and you have 8v8, so people blow through their cooldowns / dodges faster, magically have to keep their eyes on say 3 thieves (and everyone else), it simply tilts the balance further in the direction of burst and especially in favour of classes like thief who operate best taking people out whilst they have distractions in a team fight (for the same reasons GC warrior is much more effective in 8v8 hotjoin than tPvP).

In case you hadn’t noticed sPvP has flopped pretty badly, one of the reasons is as an introduction to structured PvP or as the casual “fun” end of it, it is simply terrible, in part due to poor class design like the thief, which is then magnified when it is combined with the greater team size and poorly designed incentives of hotjoin that lead people to zerg.

^ True.

Besides, let me get this straight… Thiefs are not OP because in the high-end game meta, teams can counter them? And mind you, they don’t counter them in 1vs1 situations because i’ve seen Teldo, Xee, Onibawan Magz get instaggibed like anyone else. But their team counters it bunkering the points better and reacting faster to support their nodes and hold it. And let me just en-light you how, most high-end meta teams are countering this kind of burst… with the ressing utility from necros (hence necros are also in nearly any high-end meta teams), and i’ve also seen mesmers using the illusion of life utility, this was discussed on one of the very early State of Game discussions btw.

So it is settled then, to counter Thiefs you need to have a very good organized group with everyone in voice coms and used to play with each other for quite a while… meanwhile all around middle-low tier games where people are pugging/learning, Thiefs roflstomp everything? I can see how this game will be a huge *E*sport……. never.

Stiv.1820:

Burst thieves punish people with poor reflexes, utilities and builds much more than any other profession. No doubt they are noob slayers even if they are noobs themselves.. That’s all these screenshots prove.

If this is how you approach issues, then the world can’t make sense to you. You define the problem to have a cause and conclude it to be so. Interesting. Oh well … not gonna lecture you on logic, latency, networks or anatomy … but you DO need to read up on those if you want to be a part of this century.

@pedrst: Nicely put.

@ Daydream
The ONLY reason “ONLY” half the top teams are running thieves…
is the bunker problem/meta we’re in right now…
which was brought on us by… wait for it… thieves and mesmers OP burst
[ to some extend maybe even 100b ]
…
I dont even wanna know how many ppl arguing in thieves favor here are thieves themselves… or mesmers…
or run some of the sad bunker speccs who have no real problems with thieves anyway…

“People who argue thiefs are OP are literally demonstrating a lack of understanding of the game”
i think the fact that the thief class had to be nerfed SO MANY freaking times in a row… tells their whole story… and surely that anet thinks alike most players who were demanding nerfs since launch.
Calling this a factual l2p issue is embarassing because several nerfs [ how many was it… like 10 patches of thief nerfs or more ? ] proof you wrong.

I have no problem on my GC warrior vs 99% of the thieves out there… but the 1% of really good players who use the class to its full potential [ like every player should in tpvp ] are plain OP because it takes a lot more player skill/foresight on the class opposing the thief than it takes for the thief player to instagib them.

- on another note regarding pvp in general and why we see lesser thieves nowdays :
It was once said this game has no holy trinity… and its true to some extend…
there are supposed to be no tanks or healers….
classes who can tank or heal a lil above average – sure.
but if you look at some ele or guardian speccs… you can argue all you want…
those guys are true tanks AND healers wrapped in one class.

The main problem i see is.. if they nerf Thiefs/Mesmers burst to hard they also need to nerf Guardians/Elementalist’s survivability or ability to bunker a team, especially Eles who can also be super mobile across the map bunkering a point on request when needed. Or buff the other classes to be in pair with the, whichever works tbh.

GanJoe.5374:

@ Daydream
The ONLY reason “ONLY” half the top teams are running thieves…
is the bunker problem/meta we’re in right now…
which was brought on us by… wait for it… thieves and mesmers OP burst
[ to some extend maybe even 100b ]
…
I dont even wanna know how many ppl arguing in thieves favor here are thieves themselves… or mesmers…
or run some of the sad bunker speccs who have no real problems with thieves anyway…

It was once said this game has no holy trinity… and its true to some extend…
there are supposed to be no tanks or healers….
classes who can tank or heal a lil above average – sure.
but if you look at some ele or guardian speccs… you can argue all you want…
those guys are true tanks AND healers wrapped in one class.

“People who argue thiefs are OP are literally demonstrating a lack of understanding of the game”
i think the fact that the thief class had to be nerfed SO MANY freaking times in a row… tells their whole story… and surely that anet thinks alike most players who were demanding nerfs since launch.
Calling this a factual l2p issue is embarassing because several nerfs [ how many was it… like 10 patches of thief nerfs or more ? ] proof you wrong.

Funny, I though the bunker meta was brought around because the game rules favor that build type a lot.

True Stof… surely the domination style gamemode favors them even more.
And almost demands for em to be in any team.
Yet i havent seen such an amount of bunker speccs shorty after release…
I think the bunker speccs exponentially increased after most players figured out the common burst speccs/rotations – and more and more ppl began to run those

That’s why i will never have any respect for a thief player in spvp or wvw.
I don’t care about Mesmers portal or eles bunker but 24/7 stealth, 10k+ hits and the option to ALWAYS be able to run out from a fight is just too easy.

Everytime i see one i imagine a 13 y/o boy playing him, feeling 1337 like kitten.

Since BWE2 the game was dominated by instagib 100b warrior and soon after thieves, the current bunkering mentality is without any doubt a clear result of that.

Before release ele/necro got nerfed ultra hard in the dmg department, while mesmer/thief got overlybuffed

“Since BWE2”
let me correct this for you…. from BWE2 to BWE3 100b speccs dominated anything…
TILL BWE3 tho… which was the time they nerfed the warrior into the ground so that the only viable burst specc that was left… was the previous OP 100b.

So if you really think 100b still dominates anything other than newbs in hotjoin who are facing their back to the warrior and bring no stunbreaker and lack interest in dodge mechanic…
plz let all the p-tpvp warriors know this… oh wait…

GanJoe.5374:

True Stof… surely the domination style gamemode favors them even more.
And almost demands for em to be in any team.
Yet i havent seen such an amount of bunker speccs shorty after release…

That’s because shortly after release, the meta wasn’t in place yet? A LOT of players come, just start messing around, try the bursty specs and like them, they get to kill a lot. A lot of players are new, don’t know how to react to such burst.

A lot of players were new, it’s normal for a new game to start at first with a predominance of the “team deathmatch” game style unless the game rules make that style grossly inefficient, and even so …

There wasn’t even a working sPvP mode in the first betas if I remember well. All there was available was the 8v8 hotjoin mode no? Bunkering is kind of harder when a team can have 2.66 players per node on average.

The nerfs indicate the class WAS op, not that it is OP.

its performance at high end play reveals its relative distribution in the power curve. Its not overused, like ele or mesmer or guardian are. And yes, the meta matters in influencing whats to strong/not.

Does thief burst need a look? maybe , but not without compensation. Or this class will become underpowerd amongst good players and useless.
Saying ‘from a casual’ point of view, is like saying from ‘a l2p point of view’.

Not saying casuals dont matter, im saying they dont understand balance.

I dont even main a thief! just play one now and then for fun.

Poxxia.1547:

Stiv.1820:

Burst thieves punish people with poor reflexes, utilities and builds much more than any other profession. No doubt they are noob slayers even if they are noobs themselves.. That’s all these screenshots prove.

If this is how you approach issues, then the world can’t make sense to you. You define the problem to have a cause and conclude it to be so. Interesting. Oh well … not gonna lecture you on logic, latency, networks or anatomy … but you DO need to read up on those if you want to be a part of this century.

@pedrst: Nicely put.

So are you trying to say that Thief burst needs to be balanced around people playing from AOL dial-up with one arm? We sort of assume all things being equal in that arena.

The only thing I’ll concede is that thief burst is extremely effective (OP?) vs players who are distracted with abilities on cool-down. Which is what everyone is pointing out about hotjoin.

So then, do you balance burst (for anyone) to be avoidable in that set of circumstances? If you do, then what good will it ever be? Especially vs a competent, attentive opponent with cool-downs up.

Dodge button helps alot. Predict it. Wen i play against a thief i. Run circles and dodge often to try to keep him from landing hs or bs and if he hits his first move then dodge away right after because the burst is comin.

I’m main thief and I say thief is op and broken.
Vs gc Op showed us how thief kill him. To people who say take vita and thougness :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbhdsF4oEI8
^ 1.5 sec to kill a guardian, 2.5 to kill + stomp

I don’t understand the talk about only half team uses thief ? In EU except Team paradigm, every top teams uses a thief.

Why ? many reasons
Close point : it’s the only class that can kill ele bunker, and in the current meta if you can’t kill it, you lose close point (for people who don’t know, mesmer die vs ele semi-bunker).
Teamfight : you can’t kill anyone when your opponent has cd (as thief you can’t win in 1v1 vs an ele, and most classes), but when you’re in teamfight, you just need to wait.
E.G. As necro I don’t die when a thief open me and kill him if he 1v1, but I need DS and 100% hp and either fear mark or frost mark. In teamfight you can’t keep your DS cd and marks and stay 100% hp.

When thief is out of the teamfight you have to hit opponent team or defend yourself, you can’t just wait for thief. And when you start to dps someone (and you need to dps otherwise your team will lose), the thief can open you and instagibs you.

That’s why no teams run double thief, because you need someone to put pressure and then open, with double thief no one in your team will put pressure and they can wait and keep their cd.
Can you imagine the difference in pressure in teamfight when a team without thief has to play safe because if anyone drop below 80% and blow dodge, he’ll die and be stomped under quickness ? While the other teams is safe and can put as much pressure as they want.

But Anet can’t only nerf thief, if they do that, who will kill guardian/ele ? Mesmer spike can be avoided, necro condi is useless against shout/ele, warrior is good, trap ranger is good, ele dps, but they will take at least twice the time a thief need to kill a bunker. So bunker will be even more op.

“Dodge button helps alot. Predict it. Wen i play against a thief i. Run circles and dodge often to try to keep him from landing hs or bs and if he hits his first move then dodge away right after because the burst is comin.”
- “80 Asuran thief. sPvP build: 20/30/20/0/0”

First of all… everything you listed helps vs EVERY class and is nothing thief specific… also its something the thief himself should and will utilize…
Second of all… that is such a typical thief answer to thief FOTM discussions… yet most fail to even see the point other classes make.
Dodge… move more… anticipate… foresee… common sense…
Strangely the thief class demands those defense maneuvers and enemy foresight on a whole different level than any other class would that you are going to try n counter.

imho all summed up with “ignorance is bliss”

Heojaua.6048:

How about you wear some thoughness?

I heard it does wonders.

yeah he should be wearing some toughness…

That being said 7000+ dmg from MUG which is a 10point trait is kitten ridiculous and is in serious need of a massive damage scaleback…

It is just utterly insane for a 10point trait to hit that hard

now THAT being said…

Thief sword needs a buff (mainly flanking strike / pistol whip damage) and thief pistols need a buff

GanJoe.5374:

“Dodge button helps alot. Predict it. Wen i play against a thief i. Run circles and dodge often to try to keep him from landing hs or bs and if he hits his first move then dodge away right after because the burst is comin.”
- “80 Asuran thief. sPvP build: 20/30/20/0/0”

First of all… everything you listed helps vs EVERY class and is nothing thief specific… also its something the thief himself should and will utilize…
Second of all… that is such a typical thief answer to thief FOTM discussions… yet most fail to even see the point other classes make.
Dodge… move more… anticipate… foresee… common sense…
Strangely the thief class demands those defense maneuvers and enemy foresight on a whole different level than any other class would that you are going to try n counter.

imho all summed up with “ignorance is bliss”

Haha jst cause i have an 80 thief on my sig doesnt mean i play him all the time i also have a 45 mes 38 war and 53 necro and a 60 ranger all in which i rarely have problems taking out a gc thief the only prof i have trouble dealing with a thireef is my ranger and my only tanky spec char is my war.. Its not as hard as you think some people just need to see the obvious and if the thief was dmg nerfed then what would a thief have? Steady/ slow damage who can stealth and ruhn away? The point of the thief titlree is to be invisible kill in 1 or 2 blows and disappear thiefs are suppose to be sly and stealthy sorry you cant handle a gc thief

“The point of the thief titlree is to be invisible kill in 1 or 2 blows and disappear thiefs are suppose to be sly and stealthy sorry you cant handle a gc thief”

nuff said…
theres so much wrong with what you just said…
it contradicts any reason to comment on it any further.

Eristina.5967:

I’m main thief and I say thief is op and broken.
Vs gc Op showed us how thief kill him. To people who say take vita and thougness :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbhdsF4oEI8
^ 1.5 sec to kill a guardian, 2.5 to kill + stomp

I don’t understand the talk about only half team uses thief ? In EU except Team paradigm, every top teams uses a thief.

Why ? many reasons
Close point : it’s the only class that can kill ele bunker, and in the current meta if you can’t kill it, you lose close point (for people who don’t know, mesmer die vs ele semi-bunker).
Teamfight : you can’t kill anyone when your opponent has cd (as thief you can’t win in 1v1 vs an ele, and most classes), but when you’re in teamfight, you just need to wait.
E.G. As necro I don’t die when a thief open me and kill him if he 1v1, but I need DS and 100% hp and either fear mark or frost mark. In teamfight you can’t keep your DS cd and marks and stay 100% hp.

When thief is out of the teamfight you have to hit opponent team or defend yourself, you can’t just wait for thief. And when you start to dps someone (and you need to dps otherwise your team will lose), the thief can open you and instagibs you.

That’s why no teams run double thief, because you need someone to put pressure and then open, with double thief no one in your team will put pressure and they can wait and keep their cd.
Can you imagine the difference in pressure in teamfight when a team without thief has to play safe because if anyone drop below 80% and blow dodge, he’ll die and be stomped under quickness ? While the other teams is safe and can put as much pressure as they want.

But Anet can’t only nerf thief, if they do that, who will kill guardian/ele ? Mesmer spike can be avoided, necro condi is useless against shout/ele, warrior is good, trap ranger is good, ele dps, but they will take at least twice the time a thief need to kill a bunker. So bunker will be even more op.

Soo wer should I start… I guess first: Team Paradigm isnt top anymore, aswell as Super Squad, at the moment both teams got some problems…
You can actually kill a bunker Guard pretty fast with gc Mesmer and offense Ele and if u can’t it wouldnt even be a that big problem u throw him out of the point and it’s at least decapped. Deff eles are sucking much more. Even if you are able to kill them (I play Mesmer and it’s rllllllly hard do kill semi-bunkers but with a nice opening it’s possible), the only thing happens is mist form+ride the lightning and the Ele’s gone. And after that when you want to support your team and your portal is on cd you’re pretty kittened up. You see the ele starts running to your spot, so you follow him but then again this incredible mobility and he decaps the point.
I hear a lot of ppl complaining about portal, how about eles mobility, suvivability and decent dmg (aoe)?

So back to topic: The first response i saw in this thread was: “lol mesmer complaining about thief”… well yeah, this mesmer is glass cannon that’s right, but: I’ve never done 24k DMG to a gc Thief as a gc Mesm, while the Thief got a unbeliveable mobility… Mesmer got Portal every 90sec, and Blink every 30sec, these two mobility skills use 2 of 3 utility slots, while the Thief got on his SECONDARY wep a spammable teleport, srsly anet? And the next funny fact is, that the Thief got on his bow a spammable Blast finisher with 2.5k AoE on cirt, while spamming this Skill he won’t get out of Initiative at any time if he’s a bit traited… Don’t get me wrong, Mesmer is nice and i’d say it’s really balanced, TimeWarp is too good okay, but if you change Timewarp pls remove Quickness completely from the Game, it’s to gamebreaking…
Finally: The thief isn’t a big problem in 1v1, it’s not that difficult to counter, but if your in a Team with a thief, you got a Mesmer on Homespot, Guard in mid, Ele on far, the Thief can change at least 2fights within 20secs, that’s not what it should supposed to be!

daydream.2938:

Point is , if thiefs where So OP you’d see EVERY top team running them.

Thats not actually true. Your use of caps does not make false statements any more true.

The complaint about thieves stems from their overpowered class mechanics and button-mash compliant burst.

The reason you dont see every top team running them is because, synergy is more important to high end play and thief isnt so much of a team fighter. Thief is more of a duelest class, which is why its also a popular pubstomper class.

Also alot of high end teams do you thieves.

daydream.2938:

it FACTUALLY is a l2p issue, it really is.

Caps still not making opinions factual.

daydream.2938:

People who argue thiefs are OP are literally demonstrating a lack of understanding of the game. My GOD play a elementalist and master it, and youll pretty much NEVER lose a 1on1 to a thief again.

Your answer to balanced pvp is, if you dont play a Thieves, you have to play a single spec of Elementalist?

Surely a more logical way of thinking about this is, thieves need balancing properly and so does the single spec of elementalist (which we know is under review at the minute anyway).

daydream.2938:

THIEVES ARE NOT OVERPOWERED.

More caps lock as overcompensation for a poor arguement. I wonder why people wont take your post seriously?

Just as an end note. I personally feel that the issue with thieves isnt that they arent counterable. I think the issue is that certain classes and certain specs arent capable of countering them sufficiently.

Classes with lots of ground targeting aoe, aoe knockback, teleports, or easy access to retaliation seem to do fine against thieves, when in a non glass cannon spec.

Now there are classes who dont have long duration/easy acccess to retaliation. There are classes who dont have any mechanic for knockbacks, reguardless of spec/utilities chosen. There are classes who dont have ranged, ground targeted aoe, which is spammable, high dps, or short cooldown.

If thieves are to be kept the way they are now, there would need to be a redesign of atleast a few classes to properly counter them.

Surely its easier to fix the problem, rather than try to patch the symptoms?

GanJoe.5374:

“The point of the thief titlree is to be invisible kill in 1 or 2 blows and disappear thiefs are suppose to be sly and stealthy sorry you cant handle a gc thief”

nuff said…
theres so much wrong with what you just said…
it contradicts any reason to comment on it any further.

Lol why cause in right? Thiefs are street rats that try to be unseen and steal… Anet is jst playing to thier backgrounds

Just my 2 cents.

I’ve seen, for the most part, the other class forums and can only find this thread which was started by an Anet employee only for the thief profession. So it is under their attention and if you read or even randomly click on pages it’s mostly regarding PVP issues.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback/first

Visionary.5681:

daydream.2938:

Point is , if thiefs where So OP you’d see EVERY top team running them.

Thats not actually true. Your use of caps does not make false statements any more true.

The complaint about thieves stems from their overpowered class mechanics and button-mash compliant burst.

The reason you dont see every top team running them is because, synergy is more important to high end play and thief isnt so much of a team fighter. Thief is more of a duelest class, which is why its also a popular pubstomper class.

Also alot of high end teams do you thieves.

daydream.2938:

it FACTUALLY is a l2p issue, it really is.

Caps still not making opinions factual.

daydream.2938:

People who argue thiefs are OP are literally demonstrating a lack of understanding of the game. My GOD play a elementalist and master it, and youll pretty much NEVER lose a 1on1 to a thief again.

Your answer to balanced pvp is, if you dont play a Thieves, you have to play a single spec of Elementalist?

Surely a more logical way of thinking about this is, thieves need balancing properly and so does the single spec of elementalist (which we know is under review at the minute anyway).

daydream.2938:

THIEVES ARE NOT OVERPOWERED.

More caps lock as overcompensation for a poor arguement. I wonder why people wont take your post seriously?

Just as an end note. I personally feel that the issue with thieves isnt that they arent counterable. I think the issue is that certain classes and certain specs arent capable of countering them sufficiently.

Classes with lots of ground targeting aoe, aoe knockback, teleports, or easy access to retaliation seem to do fine against thieves, when in a non glass cannon spec.

Now there are classes who dont have long duration/easy acccess to retaliation. There are classes who dont have any mechanic for knockbacks, reguardless of spec/utilities chosen. There are classes who dont have ranged, ground targeted aoe, which is spammable, high dps, or short cooldown.

If thieves are to be kept the way they are now, there would need to be a redesign of atleast a few classes to properly counter them.

Surely its easier to fix the problem, rather than try to patch the symptoms?

Can you appreciate my point, that if you nerf Thief burst, and hold all otther things equal, they would become a 2nd rate class. Burst is Y some groups bring thiefs, get rid of that and they will essentially be useless in competitive play.

I agree with the bits of your post i didnt quote

I agree that thief needs a redesign, if they get nerfed, they need more utility or different utility.

Then i think to myself. Even with nerfed damage , they’d still be more pvp viable than a power necro

“if you nerf Thief burst, and hold all otther things equal, they would become a 2nd rate class”
oh noes… we surely dont want you to feel like warriors currently do…

Surely if they nerf their dmg… they should up something else… no one wants the thief class to go away… just be in line with others.

And when you argue… try not to always argue from the view of the next strongest class… keep in mind there are plenty classes/speccs who already feel like 2nd rate classes…

GanJoe.5374:

“if you nerf Thief burst, and hold all otther things equal, they would become a 2nd rate class”
oh noes… we surely dont want you to feel like warriors currently do…

Surely if they nerf their dmg… they should up something else… no one wants the thief class to go away… just be in line with others.

And when you argue… try not to always argue from the view of the next strongest class… keep in mind there are plenty classes/speccs who already feel like 2nd rate classes…

In line with other classes? how about elementalist, who are way stronger than thieves. How about bringing the strongest class in the game into line.

stronger ? they arent stronger… they are way more versatile and excell at many other disciplines at the same time… which is a big problem currently, true.
But ppl tend to notice killing potential/ttk [ not to forget the huge potential survivabilty a gc or even worse condi thief has ] a lot more than mobility, boon removal, healing or whatever else.
And imho, its a bigger problem instagibbing ppl on a minute basis.

Like i said… dont always argue from the point of view of an even stronger or equal class to yours which is often considered OP/fotm…
coz there are only a few… if at all…
tho there are a LOT of subpar classes/speccs…

Oh my, with those kind of numbers they might as well remove toughness and vitality from the gear. Who cares about 10% damage reduction, few k of extra hp or tactics when you can buttonsmash your way to victory.

GanJoe.5374:

stronger ? they arent stronger… they are way more versatile and excell at many other disciplines at the same time… which is a big problem currently, true.
But ppl tend to notice killing potential/ttk [ not to forget the huge potential survivabilty a gc or even worse condi thief has ] a lot more than mobility, boon removal, healing or whatever else.
And imho, its a bigger problem instagibbing ppl on a minute basis.

Like i said… dont always argue from the point of view of an even stronger or equal class to yours which is often considered OP/fotm…
coz there are only a few… if at all…
tho there are a LOT of subpar classes/speccs…

so buff them, everybody knows warriors and engies need some love. Though ill be really scared of teldoo after engy buff :/

Hello,

There is already a dedicated thread about this here : The thief and its gameplay – Your feedback

Therefore this one is now closed to avoid duplicates.

Thank you for your understanding.