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Thief Class I just don't understand
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2
No only in duration, but theives need to take a hit to their speed or someone else needs a buff to theres, they cant be the fastest only class with that many escapes.
No only in duration, but theives need to take a hit to their speed or someone else needs a buff to theres, they cant be the fastest only class with that many escapes.
You can remove Signet of Shadows from the game it won’t affect thieves 1 bit. A good thief will always bring these 2/3 utilities aside from heal. 1 Shadow Step. 2 Blinding powder or shadow refuge. The third utility is of players choosing but the 1st 2 is a must. It is not that SoS is a bad choice, its just that there are so many better choices than that skill. Also a thief gets his mobility from the Shortbow not from SoS.
Einstein
Your right it wont effect good theives and thats the problem with thieves, skill cap is wayyy too low.
@Fellknight
This is just a game, no need to get worked up.
And as for you saying play something other than a thief and get back to you, I don’t even PLAY a thief. I haven’t played a thief since week 2 of the game opening. I have 0 problems with thiefs, I don’t have to build around them.
You have cc’s right? Use them. I’m not going to sit and try to explain how to fight a thief to someone who Doesn’t want to learn or improve just complain. I have no issues with thiefs (except for good players, which are a good fight on any class) so I have Nothing to lose here. You are the one struggling and complaining while others are trying to help, maybe you should tone down the ego and try and learn. Yes I understand the rendering is an issue, when a thief stealths depending on my life I either circle strafe and keep moving, or just blow out in a straight line, thiefs get slowed while in stealth which you would know if you took the time to learn the class, unless they invest HEAVILY in a trait tree to move faster which not many do as they sacrifice a lot of damage. If the thief is stealths for a long time just beat it and reset the fight he won’t catch you while stealthed.
Ps. This isn’t “another” game, so there is no point in bringing up that in this game the ranger beats thieves, because this isn’t any of those games, those bearings have 0 meaning here.
Guardian-Blueprinted, Warrior- Grizzilli
[JCM] Guild: Ehmry Bay WvW
(edited by BlueprintLFE.2358)
Fellknight is a lost cause, give up everyone. PS I heard screen shots from a single 8v8 pug game are concrete evidence for game changing nerfs/buffs to a class, especially from rank 18s.
Signed,
#1 spoon boy
Mesmer / Thief / Necromancer
honestly when i am in combat i feel signet of shadow dooesn’t work because when i am out of combat i see the “acceleration”…
Xeph- It really is a l2p issue. If you’re going to build complete glass there’s no reason for the glassiest cannon in the game to 1shot you if you don’t read his movement and blind or stunbreak it.
And as far as Mesmer goes the only thing I see wrong here is their portal ability which makes them invaluable in a capture/hold the point type PvP.
And no, I don’t ONLY play thief. My first class which I even PvE’d to 80 was a Warrior, which I stopped playing because I felt there was such a low skill-ceiling for the class compared to Thief. When playing with 3x less armor and 2x less health, the game becomes alot more twitch-reaction based in which any minor mistake will cost you a death. And quite possibly throw the match.
Winner of Curse’s NA Masters Tournament
twitch.tv/loljumper
Ok ill continue futher explanation.
Thief in stealth gets extra slow, if he dont have swiftness of SoS, he cant possibly land a backstab on a moving target unless target is moving in direction favourable to thief. Now imagine:
Thief stealthed, slowest ingame w/o any buffs.
You run with your signet=outrun thief. If he want to catch up to land backstab he… well he cant if he use heartseeker to catch up he cant backstab as he blew his invis. So a failed backstab would result in death.
Also the range on Heartseeker is affected by SoS.
No movespeed buff=shorter leap on heartseeker, which can be outrun in that case if you got swiftness.
Xeph- It really is a l2p issue. If you’re going to build complete glass there’s no reason for the glassiest cannon in the game to 1shot you if you don’t read his movement and blind or stunbreak it.
And as far as Mesmer goes the only thing I see wrong here is their portal ability which makes them invaluable in a capture/hold the point type PvP.And no, I don’t ONLY play thief. My first class which I even PvE’d to 80 was a Warrior, which I stopped playing because I felt there was such a low skill-ceiling for the class compared to Thief. When playing with 3x less armor and 2x less health, the game becomes alot more twitch-reaction based in which any minor mistake will cost you a death. And quite possibly throw the match.
Are you seriously telling one of the best players in the game to l2p? Go 1v1 his thief then and win with another profession rofl…
There is a large number of non-thief players that don’t think Thief is much of a problem, so please don’t use such a condescening tone to say things like “what are they stupid! how can they not see” because truthfully a lot of us kill thieves all the time, much easier than they kill us, because their tricks are very predictable, and they are nowhere near the top of the list in priorities on bug fixes and other small imbalance issues.
Exactly this. I play a thief. I get wrecked by people all the time. I lose fights against people that I initiated thinking it was going to be an easy kill. You see, when you fight a thief, you have to remember one thing:
Never try to out burst a thief.
The thief/rogue archetype has ALWAYS had the best stealth and the best explosive damage. Look at the roots of these types of games: D&D. The thief’s job was to work with traps and locks while not in combat, but in combat was designed to sneak up behind the enemy and put a debilitating dagger in their back. That’s exactly why he used a 1d4 dagger weapon with a situational multiplier to deal the same damage as the fighter with a 1d20. This is his role: he is the anti-carry.
So how do you beat a thief?
Understand his tricks and beat him on your terms. Don’t focus on killing him. Outlive him. He can only burst for a short time. That’s why its called burst. use your bunker or shield ability to invuln yourself for a bit and wait for him to run out of initiative. There is a short window after he C&D’s → BS you that he has to auto-attack you because his C&D won’t stealth him yet. Use this time to take out what little life he has. If he is burst then he is glass cannon build, so you should have no problem taking 25%-50% of hp. when he goes in for the second C&D → BS, roll backwards and melee auto-attack. He wont be able to get behind you and your auto-attack will still hit him. Keep moving back or he will get behind you. make him waste that 5 points of initiative and stab you in the front. then use a CC to get him down to 25% before he can hide in shadows or shadow refuge. if he refuges, AOE and get out of that small circle he has to stay in to remain stealthed.
Have patience, and don’t let him see your back. If he cant get behind you he cant burst you at all, and he will have to run or die.
[ARM] Anvil Rock Militia Commander;
The Loryak: I speak for these beasts.
Xeph- It really is a l2p issue. If you’re going to build complete glass there’s no reason for the glassiest cannon in the game to 1shot you if you don’t read his movement and blind or stunbreak it.
And as far as Mesmer goes the only thing I see wrong here is their portal ability which makes them invaluable in a capture/hold the point type PvP.And no, I don’t ONLY play thief. My first class which I even PvE’d to 80 was a Warrior, which I stopped playing because I felt there was such a low skill-ceiling for the class compared to Thief. When playing with 3x less armor and 2x less health, the game becomes alot more twitch-reaction based in which any minor mistake will cost you a death. And quite possibly throw the match.
Are you seriously telling one of the best players in the game to l2p? Go 1v1 his thief then and win with another profession rofl…
if proplayer right now means players who streams, well, if jumper, is THE jumper i know, he streams too…. so who is the best? i say, they are equally skilled, different popular as it seems…
Have patience, and don’t let him see your back. If he cant get behind you he cant burst you at all, and he will have to run or die.
Any good thief will stealth/heal , run out of range, let initiative recharge and go back in for another shot. Eventually he will kill you simply because he always has the advantage in every fight.
The best thing to do when you see a thief: Stand there and die in2 seconds, then roll a thief and have an equal chance!
Two things that can be done to give others classes a chance against shatter mesmer and backstab thief: Increases the cooldown on illusionary leap and make it so you can’t precast cloak and dagger then steal.
Pancakes To Celebrate
Fellknight.4820
Lemme get this straight but if a theif has a 10% run speed signet with a swiftness active ability something the necro, elementalist and ranger would kill for you would suddenly suck lol.
And don’t lie every theif would slot it.
So with Shadow Refuge, Hide in Shadow’s, Blinding powder, and cloak and dagger at your disposal you couldn’t possibly escape.
And with Steal, Heartseeker, Death Blossom, and Inf.Strike at your disposal you cant get right up on someone.
Cmon I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Guys guys, I’m ashamed here. We all somehow forgot that when a thief escapes death, said thief has won the fight. Every game currently being DM style, when you don’t kill a thief, he wins. It’s not as though we’re playing in a capture point environment, which would value chasing your target away from the cap point or slowing them down en route to said points, denying their team nodes.
We also forget that thief has some of the BEST base HP and armor – why do they need all those gap closers when they’re so tough? ALSO, you can’t even hit them when they’re stealth! its 3 seconds of invincibility that they can spam! How could ANet possibly launch the game with the class in this state? It’s unbelievable. Literally unbelievable. I can’t believe it.
[/sarcasm]
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
I didn’t know this was the thief forum…
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2
(edited by Daecollo.9578)
Fellknight.4820
Lemme get this straight but if a theif has a 10% run speed signet with a swiftness active ability something the necro, elementalist and ranger would kill for you would suddenly suck lol.
And don’t lie every theif would slot it.
So with Shadow Refuge, Hide in Shadow’s, Blinding powder, and cloak and dagger at your disposal you couldn’t possibly escape.
And with Steal, Heartseeker, Death Blossom, and Inf.Strike at your disposal you cant get right up on someone.
Cmon I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Guys guys, I’m ashamed here. We all somehow forgot that when a thief escapes death, said thief has won the fight. Every game currently being DM style, when you don’t kill a thief, he wins. It’s not as though we’re playing in a capture point environment, which would value chasing your target away from the cap point or slowing them down en route to said points, denying their team nodes.
We also forget that thief has some of the BEST base HP and armor – why do they need all those gap closers when they’re so tough? ALSO, you can’t even hit them when they’re stealth! its 3 seconds of invincibility that they can spam! How could ANet possibly launch the game with the class in this state? It’s unbelievable. Literally unbelievable. I can’t believe it.
[/sarcasm]
Can you believe it?
Pancakes To Celebrate
Fellknight.4820
Lemme get this straight but if a theif has a 10% run speed signet with a swiftness active ability something the necro, elementalist and ranger would kill for you would suddenly suck lol.
And don’t lie every theif would slot it.
So with Shadow Refuge, Hide in Shadow’s, Blinding powder, and cloak and dagger at your disposal you couldn’t possibly escape.
And with Steal, Heartseeker, Death Blossom, and Inf.Strike at your disposal you cant get right up on someone.
Cmon I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Guys guys, I’m ashamed here. We all somehow forgot that when a thief escapes death, said thief has won the fight. Every game currently being DM style, when you don’t kill a thief, he wins. It’s not as though we’re playing in a capture point environment, which would value chasing your target away from the cap point or slowing them down en route to said points, denying their team nodes.
We also forget that thief has some of the BEST base HP and armor – why do they need all those gap closers when they’re so tough? ALSO, you can’t even hit them when they’re stealth! its 3 seconds of invincibility that they can spam! How could ANet possibly launch the game with the class in this state? It’s unbelievable. Literally unbelievable. I can’t believe it.
[/sarcasm]Can you believe it?
I cant! Literally.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
I didn’t know this was the thief forum…
Honestly there are several broken traits/bugs that effect thief atm, but people can only focus on the 2-3 builds they actually have…
Pistol/Pistol thief is completely broken and useless.
Dagger/Pistol Thief does no damage and is broken and useless.
Pistol/Dagger Thief is completely trollsy and does little damage, only useful in preventing people from capping anything in WvWvW.
Sword/Dagger is useless, its only situational against 1 class, Guardian.
Several Traits are bugged to not apply “boon duration”, alot of traits are under-powered and don’t make any sense at all, Thieves have some of the lowest “DPS” (not burst damage.) in the game now because they have the lowest pool of time to do damage, it just happens all at once unlike other classes.
While I don’t believe thieves are OP, its not as if they’re in any worse shape than other classes when it comes to needing bug/functionality fixes.
- P/P is underpowered, not broken – there’s a big difference. It just needs a few minor tweaks (body shot being changed, a decision whether or not unload should be a direct damage or condition/utility type skill)
- D/P has one major problem, and that’s root on shadow shot. Otherwise it has alot of potential. You don’t see people running it because D/D has better burst, but when they finally fix shadow shot, I see it making a comeback, as its a kittenload more versatile/group friendly.
- P/D. This is the hilarious one. I wreck face with P/D – if you know how to play it, it’s absolutely amazing. Its a condition/attrition style build, but once you learn the ins and outs, its very powerful (if a bit limited by capture point style spvp)
- S/D needs some work, no arguing there.
I’m not 100% sure of traits not working – I know most the superior SPvP traits work, because I run them and I’ve seen them work. Can’t comment on steadiness of DPS, never tested it.
Thieves need alot of fixes, but they’re hardly alone in that. Let’s not pretend thief is a useless class in need of alot of love before it becomes viable, that’s just as bad as the people who cry about how OP it is.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
evilapprentice.6379
you forgot that thief is the only class who has 3 weapon sets and 5 utility skills, 2 elite if traited (30 critical, rune XIII)
evilapprentice.6379
you forgot that thief is the only class who has 3 weapon sets and 5 utility skills, 2 elite if traited (30 critical, rune XIII)
That only unlocks if you play the class for more than 2 days, and win 10 Tpvp matches, so it doesn’t count for 99.9% of these people.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
Have patience, and don’t let him see your back. If he cant get behind you he cant burst you at all, and he will have to run or die.
Any good thief will stealth/heal , run out of range, let initiative recharge and go back in for another shot. Eventually he will kill you simply because he always has the advantage in every fight.
The best thing to do when you see a thief: Stand there and die in2 seconds, then roll a thief and have an equal chance!
So in effect, like I said in my post: his options are now run or die. If he comes back, he won’t have steal back up to close the gap meaning that he will be doing substantially less without his mug damage, and all his other gap closers are pretty initiative heavy, meaning that once he gets to you, assuming you have been paying attention to your surroundings AT ALL, he might have enough for 1 C&D + BS combo. Do the same thing you did before, and he will, again, either run or die. Its also important to note that if, like you say he is a smart thief and stealths to retreat and heal and gain initiative, he will be useless for the next minute. By playing smart you survived the thief’s burst, leaving you with a couple of cooldowns, but still in the fight, while you have essentially left the thief vulnerable and unable to defend himself or be a productive member of his team for a full minute.
That sounds like a win to me.
[ARM] Anvil Rock Militia Commander;
The Loryak: I speak for these beasts.