Guild Wars 2

I play all classes. Some classes, such as Warrior, Necro, Ranger and Mesmer have incredibly hard times against an D/D Elementalist. They are infact overpowered when a proper D/D build, with a good player, can do more than any other class in the game. Beastmasters are almost as OP despite relying on single target damage, as they are bunkers that do incredible damage, up to 5-8k crits off their pets.

The definition of balance, is that all classes are equal in effectiveness (even if their effectiveness is specialized) to all other classes. This is not the case with Elementalist. Not even remotely. Just because you can beat them, does not mean they are balanced. There is a specific reason why I see 2+ Elementalists every time I play a tournament.

Just because I kill Thieves often doesn’t mean they’re underpowered, I simply believe that a few of their skills/traits are stronger than they should be, and some of their skills/traits are completely utterly useless.

This thread got derailed so hard because of you two.

Last Refuge is not something I really depend on, if I am 25% or lower I use Shadow Refuge.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This thread got derailed so hard because of you two.

Last Refuge is not something I really depend on, if I am 25% or lower I use Shadow Refuge.

Lol, my apologies.

LR frustrates me, personally, because it often comes so easily without warning and then /bam four-second Reveal. One of the worst things to have happen to you.

I’ll agree that it needs to be removed, or heavily modified. To be honest, it’s one of the easiest ways for me to kill a Thief, as at 25% health they’ll just suddenly be revealed and my own trait ends up activating “Cast Spinal Shivers on a foe when they are below 25% health” which is essentially an insta-kill for a Thief when he can’t stealth.

Arganthium.5638:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

This thread got derailed so hard because of you two.

Last Refuge is not something I really depend on, if I am 25% or lower I use Shadow Refuge.

Lol, my apologies.

LR frustrates me, personally, because it often comes so easily without warning and then /bam four-second Reveal. One of the worst things to have happen to you.

Yep, this actually happened to me the other day. I thought I was going to get away and I was sitting in my SR with a revealed debuff. Saddest thing ever.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Arganthium.5638:

Except that SoU is a… Signet. What did you expect, that you’d get both the passive as well as a superior active? Also, SR doesn’t get an insta-res. In fact, you’re often lucky to pull off one res in SR. AoE and CC make SR ridiculously difficult to rez in. It’s crazy.

Also, SR is our only real direct defense ally support.

The cooldown still makes this a very difficult skill to time properly.

The heal really isn’t that much. I’m pretty sure eles heal for more just by switching to their Water attunement for three seconds.

Signet of Undeath is a crappy signet, with virtually no point in it having a passive. The LF gain is virtually nonexistent to justify it being a signet. I understand that SR is your only real defensive support option, that doesn’t mean it needs to be strong as sin. No, I’m not QQing because I can’t defeat it, I’m irritated because too much reliance is put on that. I can’t go 30 seconds in a game with a Thief without seeing either Heartseeker, Deathblossom, or Shadow Refuge. What I want to see is more diversity in Thief, so they don’t have to rely on such gimmicky and rather annoying things.

the troll is strong in this one, surprised people are taking you seriously.

In the event that you are serious (unlikely), take a look at the support on other classes. Engi, ele, guardian, warrior, mesmer, and necro to be specific. I would have said ranger too but they need a thief to make full use of their best support.

Kaon.7192:

If you “just learn to play with it” then LR would require you to disengage combat before 25%hp …

Not to mention you’re going to have to “learn” when your opponent (or opponents collectively) are going to use their big bursts to bring you down to 25% in an instant and plan your moves pre-emptively.

I suppose we should all just “learn” to read minds over the internet like Mr. Champ over here.

I did and ever since then they’ve called me the champ

If you get the reference then you’re a kitten… so that was censored… baddonkey

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I bet you also want to keep Trap Ranger and Regenning Beastmaster too while buffing their Longbow to shoot flaming Chuck Norrises.

You’re talking circles and trying to bring unrelated points into a conversation for the sake of winning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpjq8jqrPq8
Fast forward to 30s and listen for 30s. That’s exactly what you are sounding like. What a ranger has going on for them or an ele, neither has anything to do with shadow refuge. This thread doesn’t even have anything to do with shadow refuge. It’s about last refuge.

With all that said, wow that’s an amazing idea for a legendary. Although it would be hard to shoot full chucks, might make the game explode. It might be more manageable to just shoot his mustache

and this is for fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRflz-93JA

randomfightfan.4091:

the troll is strong in this one, surprised people are taking you seriously.

In the event that you are serious (unlikely), take a look at the support on other classes. Engi, ele, guardian, warrior, mesmer, and necro to be specific. I would have said ranger too but they need a thief to make full use of their best support.

You’re probably right, but on the other hand I know that a lot of people actually do think like he does, for no good reason. That’s why I bothered to treat him as though he was being serious.

… I gave up after a while. :P

I explained 6 times that I would support removing last refuge.

I only added in Shadow Refuge so that if Thieves ever get that fix, they could be completely fixed as a package, but people are in denial about their classes and would fight to the death not to have anything nerfed. Even if it meant buffing other aspects.

Just like Elementalists do about D/D. Ever try to stack bleed on a D/D Ele? I thought not.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I explained 6 times that I would support removing last refuge.

I only added in Shadow Refuge so that if Thieves ever get that fix, they could be completely fixed as a package, but people are in denial about their classes and would fight to the death not to have anything nerfed. Even if it meant buffing other aspects.

Just like Elementalists do about D/D. Ever try to stack bleed on a D/D Ele? I thought not.

Right,with your idea about fixing, the class becomes COMPLETELY broken.No thanks, it would be better to remove thief completely out of game instead of leaving it dead like that. You claim you have played other class, yet me and many other here find it hard to believe you. When it comes to class, you many time give out misinformation. I don’t need to give out any example, this is not a place for it. Do you know that with SR, thief has to stand in there at least 4s to get complete effect? Guess not. During that 4s interval, if thief EVER step out the circle, he will be revealed and marked with the debuff means that he can not get back in the circle to get another stealth. In short, once he you push him out,he screwed. With Mesmer, simply using GS 5 or Focus 4, he will be revealed immediately. Playing Mesmer with no knowledge of their skill is useless. Another thing is once thief cast SR, watch his health bar. If it is not for Rez purpose, means he is in real trouble and at low health. As a Necro, what are you waiting for not casting Well on top of the circle? Well circle is nearly as large as SR circle,so very high chance you will get hit him regardless you can see him or not. Now thief only have 2 options,either stand in SR for 4s to get the full effect of SR and eat your Well Dams plus condition or move out of the circle and get revealed. Either way, with just a little push,thief will be down. Another scenario here is thief down while in SR circle, but because he still in the SR circle, he still get Stealth buff stacking and he can recover using that stealth time. A lot of time I am down in SR circle,stealth and my opponent standing there watching, give me time to rally while stealth. The solution is after pass 4s or SRdissappear and you still have not seen him,either he flee successfully or he is downed while remain stealth. If he is flee, great you got the point you are holding or capturing ATM. If you are not sure, don’t just stand there,go in and attack where he use SR.Despite whether you see him or not, hit or not, at least you are preventing him from heal himself and eventually, you will see him out and laying on the floor dead or down. After all this instruction, you still find trouble dealing with SR,you have no one to blame but yourself.

Back to the topic. I would love to see LR to be make as Adept trait and switch one of the Adept trait out like, using stealth skill give you 2 initiative, or remove one codition every 3s in stealth or, going stealth blind nearby enemy. They are all decent you to buff thief survive ability a bit.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I explained 6 times that I would support removing last refuge.

I only added in Shadow Refuge so that if Thieves ever get that fix, they could be completely fixed as a package, but people are in denial about their classes and would fight to the death not to have anything nerfed. Even if it meant buffing other aspects.

Just like Elementalists do about D/D. Ever try to stack bleed on a D/D Ele? I thought not.

Shadow refuge isn’t broken. It’s probably one of the easiest things in the game to counter. SR goes up…AOE IT. It’s that simple. The thief is either going to sit in the AOE to get stealth losing most of his life or he will leave and lose stealth. It’s Win/Win. I assume you play a necro so drop a well on it or all of your marks, go plague form and just sit in it, go into death shroud and do the AOE LF leech. Other classes can completely shut it down with knockbacks or pulls. If the thief is going to rez someone then you know EXACTLY where they will be, stealthed or not. Just drop damage on them(protip: if you have a combo on your autoattack you’ll see it flipping through abilities as you hit the thief). Shadow Refuge is only good against people who have no idea how it works or magically think stealth means invulnerable.

Back on topic: Last refuge is a garbage trait that has killed me a few times. I absolutely HATE that minor traits are forced on you, it’s just pouring salt on the wound when they are absolutely useless. I remember the Necromancer re animator trait where the jagged horrors would literally die before they could do anything. They are still terrible but slightly less useless. The whole trait system needs reworked since it is so confining. I know they changed it before release for balancing reasons, but it’s not like they are doing good on the balancing front anyways so they might as well allow a whole lot more builds.

Distaste.4801:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I explained 6 times that I would support removing last refuge.

I only added in Shadow Refuge so that if Thieves ever get that fix, they could be completely fixed as a package, but people are in denial about their classes and would fight to the death not to have anything nerfed. Even if it meant buffing other aspects.

Just like Elementalists do about D/D. Ever try to stack bleed on a D/D Ele? I thought not.

Shadow refuge isn’t broken. It’s probably one of the easiest things in the game to counter. SR goes up…AOE IT. It’s that simple. The thief is either going to sit in the AOE to get stealth losing most of his life or he will leave and lose stealth. It’s Win/Win. I assume you play a necro so drop a well on it or all of your marks, go plague form and just sit in it, go into death shroud and do the AOE LF leech. Other classes can completely shut it down with knockbacks or pulls. If the thief is going to rez someone then you know EXACTLY where they will be, stealthed or not. Just drop damage on them(protip: if you have a combo on your autoattack you’ll see it flipping through abilities as you hit the thief). Shadow Refuge is only good against people who have no idea how it works or magically think stealth means invulnerable.

Back on topic: Last refuge is a garbage trait that has killed me a few times. I absolutely HATE that minor traits are forced on you, it’s just pouring salt on the wound when they are absolutely useless. I remember the Necromancer re animator trait where the jagged horrors would literally die before they could do anything. They are still terrible but slightly less useless. The whole trait system needs reworked since it is so confining. I know they changed it before release for balancing reasons, but it’s not like they are doing good on the balancing front anyways so they might as well allow a whole lot more builds.

Word of advice: don’t even start this conversation with him. Learn from my mistakes. He really has no idea what he’s talking about.

Arganthium.5638:

Distaste.4801:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I explained 6 times that I would support removing last refuge.

I only added in Shadow Refuge so that if Thieves ever get that fix, they could be completely fixed as a package, but people are in denial about their classes and would fight to the death not to have anything nerfed. Even if it meant buffing other aspects.

Just like Elementalists do about D/D. Ever try to stack bleed on a D/D Ele? I thought not.

Shadow refuge isn’t broken. It’s probably one of the easiest things in the game to counter. SR goes up…AOE IT. It’s that simple. The thief is either going to sit in the AOE to get stealth losing most of his life or he will leave and lose stealth. It’s Win/Win. I assume you play a necro so drop a well on it or all of your marks, go plague form and just sit in it, go into death shroud and do the AOE LF leech. Other classes can completely shut it down with knockbacks or pulls. If the thief is going to rez someone then you know EXACTLY where they will be, stealthed or not. Just drop damage on them(protip: if you have a combo on your autoattack you’ll see it flipping through abilities as you hit the thief). Shadow Refuge is only good against people who have no idea how it works or magically think stealth means invulnerable.

Back on topic: Last refuge is a garbage trait that has killed me a few times. I absolutely HATE that minor traits are forced on you, it’s just pouring salt on the wound when they are absolutely useless. I remember the Necromancer re animator trait where the jagged horrors would literally die before they could do anything. They are still terrible but slightly less useless. The whole trait system needs reworked since it is so confining. I know they changed it before release for balancing reasons, but it’s not like they are doing good on the balancing front anyways so they might as well allow a whole lot more builds.

Word of advice: don’t even start this conversation with him. Learn from my mistakes. He really has no idea what he’s talking about.

+1 to you