I see this is a frequent argument, please tell me builds that would be viable NOW and they are not because of thief? That means they would be beating at least half of the other meta specs. I am really interested in your (or anyone’s) answer.
It’s not ‘thief’ that keeps them out, but D/P thief; it, in conjunction with power mesmers, keep any other sort of high damage but glassy DPS build out of the game – specifically, scepter eles, glass rangers, and sword thieves. Such builds are good tank busters, but simply get eaten by stealth -> burst -> restealth -> burst ad nauseam with very little recourse.
Sort of. But also some engie builds are really having a high skill floor outside highly organised teams. It boils down to mobility and stealth – which ofc several classes have, but only few are able to repeat it in the way thieves are – and to some extend mesmers.
My list would include engies and eles. But also mesmers if they don’t run with stealth. Power-necro is sort of meta, but it really isn’t much fun with so little mobility and being glassy – it builds too much down to a matter of LF.
If you have any doubt about it, just try to roll these builds in solo-Q and be sure there is a competent thieves in the opposing team.
But again: I highly doubt, that the OP is interested in anything but a rhetorical debate. There is no such thing as proof – I might easily turn the discussion and lay the burden on proof on Ihales, but if I had to do that, then it just emphasises my argument: Thieves don’t realise how many builds they are already pushing out – and have don in the past (and yes, the past does matter).
I didn’t ask for proof, I asked for build. You haven’t provided neither of those (btw proof of what?) only bunch of useless excuses. I meant it as serious question as posted above. Still haven’t received single build that is hold down only by thief that would do well in current meta. Remember it was you who said that so I assume you had some builds in mind or were you just repeating what someone else said?
If you want to bring things from past from specific patches then don’t bother. There were so many broken things (on thief and other classes equally) and for many you should be grateful they were hold by thieves in some kind of control.
I am stating, that proofs are absurd – glad you agree. By proof, I meant builds that for certain would be viable without thieves – d/p in particular. When you are asking for things with the “certain”-requirement, you are in reality asking for a proof. That doesn’t make sense in this context.
I can give you builds – kinda already did. The thing is: I can never say for certain, that a build is held down by thief exclusively – it might as well be mesmers fx. That doesn’t acquit thieves though.
The premises are not excuses – that is setting the terms for what we precisely are debating. Understand that, if you are interested in actually having a discussion and not interested in baiting or flaming. I find that to be a fair request, honestly.
I claim, that outside highly organised tpvp, fx marauder-engie in various forms is having a hard time. Certainly worth it, once the team is organised – but I find it really hard to pull if there is a competent thief on the other team and I am in a pug (which I am almost exclusively).
Fresh Air ele is another example. Any non-stealthing marauder mesmer is a third example. All these have alternatives – I am quite aware of that. Powerful ones even. That doesn’t change, that when it comes to zerker/maruder, only certain classes can pull it of – mainly because of ports/stealth.
I might btw add, that many thieves find power-necro’s with low LF to be a pushover. Again a highly organised team can help out with that – but if it is a pug it is a very different story in my limited experience – which I find other necromancer who are vastly more active than me to share however.
There is a very clear pattern in all these builds, which does concern what is viable due to mobility and the ability to reset the match.
I take it, you can make these builds yourself? Not trying to be patronising or anything . I does puzzle me, that you want specific builds, when there fx are variants over both marauder-rifle and fresh air – just to mention the simple ones.
PS: I should be grateful for playing a daze-lock-build on my mesmer, that was absolutely fun and viable as long as there wasn’t a thief around? Funny way to frame it. I respectfully disagree – I am not grateful in any way.
