Guild Wars 2

Teulux.6732:

It is easy to predict/counter/avoid.

I can guarantee you’ve been hit with it. So don’t act like it’s EASY to avoid, especially in group play.

Also, didn’t know you worked for A-Net. Glad you guys finally decided to come out and tell us what you are balancing around. Oh wait what? You don’t work for them and can’t make that statement? I gotcha…

Teulux.6732:

Pyrial your term “global” only shows that you came from WoW where the term started from “global cooldown”

When in reality that term was copied from previous MMOs where it was called “1 rounded”

On topic high level play the backstab build on the thief is trash and no competitive player would ever use it over pistol whip.

What you are seeing in this thread is people playing 8s and crying about the balance of the game when it is not really balanced for that type of play.

Any thief that goes that much into glass cannon is gonna get destroyed by a decent player that knows what the kitten he is doing. It is easy to predict/counter/avoid. The ONLY time you see that build is when people go pub stomping in 8s.

which brings us back to my summary of this thread in a previous post.

L2P

I have to agree. 8s and 5s are completely different as for one you have people constantly joining and leaving, You also have to take into consideration group composition as killing a player is always secondary to holding the points (although it is fun).

The thief backstab build I’ve seen to be sub par in tPVP and are usually raged against for being useless in team chat. Especially since they are single target DPS only and bring nothing to the group as a whole to benefit the group in any way. They tend to be a wild card that usually doesn’t play in the teams favor.

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

Zachariel.5463:

Pyrial.2917:

ens.9854:

Pyrial.2917:

…One shotting anyone, no matter which profession should NEVER be an acceptable form of game play…

Well technically this isn’t true, my guardian has taken full combos from glass cannon thieves (which is my own fault for not using stunbreak > knockback) and easily lived to kill them. I think the point you are trying to get at is that thieves alone make every other burst build obsolete; not every build ever.

First and foremost, I meant what I said. Please don’t come on here and misrepresent my thoughts. Secondly, if you lived through it you weren’t globaled/one shot…

And neither were you. You were hit twice or more with a skill that you only have five seconds (if you specced for increase stealth time lowering your damage output) to pull off each time. What were you doing? Dancing?

Globaled/One shot…My position is and will continue to be that NO profession should be able to global/one shot another. If you get globaled, you don’t even have time to dance. Sorry it’s too confusing for you.

Learn the meaning of One Shot. You and no one in this game was oneshotted due to a theifs skills in sPVP.

In the context of mmo pvp, globaled and one shot are synonymous. I can understand if this is your first rodeo. I won’t hold it against you.

Then use a different term for what you are actually trying to imply…you were nuked..plane and simple..not one shotted. One shotted means he killed you with one hit…nuked means he blew your kitten up. Plain and simple.

EDIT: Someone call PETA
EDIT: And just an fyi..in every game i’ve played (MMO, RPG, and FPS) Global pertains to a map wide skill….and unless I’m missing something..no one has one of those. So your word choice is poor at best.

I understand that this is your first mmo and thus you don’t know that globaling and one shotting are virtually identical. Let this be your first lesson, and to boot I’m not the OP…

Then choose a different word to phrase what you are trying to mean..use a thesaurus if you have to as no one in this game has a global/one shot ability.

And do try to stay on topic as this is a constructive topic with some good conversation. If you have nothing adequate to add other than attacking me, then please leave this discussion to the adults.

I don’t have to choose a different word, in the mmo genre globaling is exactly what we are describing. Just because you are uneducated about the term doesn’t mean I have to dumb down the word I am using.

I love also how you are the one who is crying about staying on topic when it was you who was the instigator.

Hmm…first time in all the 10 years i’ve been playing games that i’ve heard it used in that instance. New one for me.

I was referring you to attacking me. Saying I’m uneducated is a personal attack and is not needed in polite discussion.

You’re the least polite person in this discussion. Go back and read what you wrote to everyone, you come off as a jerk and now you’re crying foul?

Actually I tend to be very polite. I can also call you an idiot without even saying and make it sound like a compliment but I would hate to resort to using big words you may have trouble comprehending. Now that was being rude.

There’s nothing you can say that I won’t understand; however you on the other hand try to speak on position of authority about a term you don’t even know…

You know it as one thing, I know it as another. Same meaning, different word.

Except you didn’t know the word and tried to tell me it didn’t mean what it mean. Ignorance at its finest.

Depends on what context you are referring to.

That doens’t even make sense. What I said was fact, it is not debatable. You didn’t know what the word meant, you admitted that later on. You tried to tell me it didn’t mean what it meant. That is pure ignorance.

Please refer to Teulux post as he summed that up quite nicely, and from his stand point I understand perfectly what you are talking about in the context you are trying to relay. Doesn’t quite work in this situation in my opinion but I get what you are trying to say.

Doesn’t quite work? It’s exactly as it is being described.

Think we’ve beaten that horse to death so not going to respond further to that off topic conversation. Please return to the issue at hand. As I am.

I will solve all your problems:

Stop playing 8s

Start playing 5s

/thread

There is a reason it is called pub stomping and there is a reason you are raging on a pub stomping build (you are the pub being stomped)

Nope, try again. That type of game play should never be supported. Killing someone without them having a chance to fight back is poor design.

Pyrial.2917:

Nope, try again. That type of game play should never be supported. Killing someone without them having a chance to fight back is poor design.

Poor design repeated in every mmo that has ever had a thief class. Why is that? It feels like developers are so uninspired on how to make a thief class with out it being Op as kitten.

Because rogue class style is all or nothing : They burst and kill OR they get killed.
If you dont give them high burst then they only have stealth so no one would play them but to spy/scout the ennemy.
You already have warrior as melee dps/support, where do you put the rogue if not assassin role ?

psyt.9415:

Pyrial.2917:

Nope, try again. That type of game play should never be supported. Killing someone without them having a chance to fight back is poor design.

Poor design repeated in every mmo that has ever had a thief class. Why is that? It feels like developers are so uninspired on how to make a thief class with out it being Op as kitten.

I’m not even talking about thieves. I’m talking specifically about the type of game play that condones killing someone without them being able to respond. Thieves aren’t the only ones who can pull off that kind of burst.

CeCaKonVeu.5734:

Because rogue class style is all or nothing : They burst and kill OR they get killed.
If you dont give them high burst then they only have stealth so no one would play them but to spy/scout the ennemy.
You already have warrior as melee dps/support, where do you put the rogue if not assassin role ?

I am not concerned with their burst I am concerned about the mechanics behind how they achieve it. In other games stun locking or perma stealth made it unfair. In this game its how easy it is to pull off each weapon sets optimal combo added to the escape mechanics of the class.

If they reworked thief to be as hard to play as ele or eng then I wouldn’t have an issue with it because for people to achieve what they are doing now they would have to be really good and I can respect that.

I play a thief and agree the backstab burst combo is too good. I suggest 2 easy fixes:
1. get rid of mug trait (dmg on steal). It first appeared in BWE2 i think. give us some other cool trait that is not burst oriented.
2. get rid of the signet that increases dmg by 50% next hit. Or change it to 25%, or 50% if target below 50% – to make it more finisher than opener, which i think most players would be happy with (on both sides of the fight).
imo these two changes would reduce the CnD-steal opener to a more manageable level, and not impact too much on dagger dagger builds

Pyrial.2917:

I’m not even talking about thieves. I’m talking specifically about the type of game play that condones killing someone without them being able to respond. Thieves aren’t the only ones who can pull off that kind of burst.

This Thread and game is full of people saying they have no problem responding to the burst damage a thief or any of the classes can pull off.

YOUR problem is you think that just because YOU are not fast enough to respond to it that the game is some how flawed. YOU feel the devs should tailor the game to fit YOUR needs or that the devs some how owe YOU something.

Truth of the matter is no one owes you anything, and honestly no one gives a flying kitten what you think about hotjoin 8s. Which as already stated is not the balancing point for this game.

I for one am glad that Anet is one of the few gaming companies out there that doesn’t listen to the local minority and their cry for more “balance”. I will agree there will always be minor balance needed as the meta of the game evolves over time, but to try and defend the fact that you are simply not fast enough to respond to the burst damage in the game when there ARE already plenty of counters for it just proves that you are nothing more then a bad player crying that you can’t figure out how to play the game.

Teulux.6732:

“I’m not even talking about thieves. I’m talking specifically about the type of game play that condones killing someone without them being able to respond. Thieves aren’t the only ones who can pull off that kind of burst.”

This Thread and game is full of people saying they have no problem responding to the burst damage a thief or any of the classes can pull off.

YOUR problem is you think that just because YOU are not fast enough to respond to it that the game is some how flawed. YOU feel the devs should tailor the game to fit YOUR needs or that the devs some how owe YOU something.

Truth of the matter is no one owes you anything, and honestly no one gives a flying kitten what you think about hotjoin 8s. Which as already stated is not the balancing point for this game.

I for one am glad that Anet is one of the few gaming companies out there that doesn’t listen to the local minority and their cry for more “balance”. I will agree there will always be minor balance needed as the meta of the game evolves over time, but to try and defend the fact that you are simply not fast enough to respond to the burst damage in the game when there ARE already plenty of counters for it just proves that you are nothing more then a bad player crying that you can’t figure out how to play the game.

Which really does suck due to it being a really nice game. I feel bad for those that can’t and won’t try to better themselves. Even if you suck just have fun with it. All I can say to those that really just want to nerf everything because “Its too Hard” is to avoid 8s and do 5s. Much easier and you’ll learn better.

Teulux.6732:

Pyrial.2917:

I’m not even talking about thieves. I’m talking specifically about the type of game play that condones killing someone without them being able to respond. Thieves aren’t the only ones who can pull off that kind of burst.

This Thread and game is full of people saying they have no problem responding to the burst damage a thief or any of the classes can pull off.

YOUR problem is you think that just because YOU are not fast enough to respond to it that the game is some how flawed. YOU feel the devs should tailor the game to fit YOUR needs or that the devs some how owe YOU something.

Truth of the matter is no one owes you anything, and honestly no one gives a flying kitten what you think about hotjoin 8s. Which as already stated is not the balancing point for this game.

I for one am glad that Anet is one of the few gaming companies out there that doesn’t listen to the local minority and their cry for more “balance”. I will agree there will always be minor balance needed as the meta of the game evolves over time, but to try and defend the fact that you are simply not fast enough to respond to the burst damage in the game when there ARE already plenty of counters for it just proves that you are nothing more then a bad player crying that you can’t figure out how to play the game.

This thread is written by someone who disagrees with you. As well as a multitude of other threads regarding the same issue.

MY problem is that I disagree with a model of game play that promotes instagibbing people.

I love how you say that no one owes me anything. Did I ask someone to give me something? Truth of the matter is my opinion is as valid as yours is. So if mine doesn’t matter (which I don’t necessarily believe it does, it was about discussion of the topic), no one gives a flying kitten about yours or tpvp…

I’m glad you keep bringing up the balancing issue. Again, when did you start working for A-Net? Congratulations are in order I guess…

Please both of you leave your character’s names and professions. I’m willing to bet that someone, at some point and time, has globaled you.

Zachariel.5463:

You really need to learn the definition of what “One Shot” is.

Means you die in one shot. The thief does not One Shot someone.

Well then, it’s a good thing I didn’t mention the phrase “one shot” a single time in either of my two posts. I did mention “3 hits” however, so….

And to point out..I was talking about the thief being glass cannon not the player that died to him. Learn reading comprehension please.

Fair enough, but in your next sentence you said “he was just outplayed,” and I assumed those two consecutive sentences were connected and talking about the same player. My bad.

Also to point out…he obviously wasn’t watching his HUD or he would have seen his health drop from the initial steal or he would have known to dodge

I spec 0/0/10/30/30 on my ele, meaning the 3 hits (e.g., Steal/C&D/BS) don’t kill typically. I also carry 3 cantrips, so I almost always have at least one stunbreaker off cooldown.
That being said, I HAVE been hit with this combo in sPvP occasionally and you really don’t have a lot of time to react if it’s a good thief pulling it off (to be fair, most thieves running this spec are horrible, which is why they rely on this gimmick as a crutch to farm kills. This is also why they panic and try to run away a lot when the combo DOESN’T kill me as an Ele, they expected a free kill). More often than not, all 3 hits will land without the thief becoming visible at all (due to the lag in rendering when coming out of stealth) and will land in a second or two tops. No matter how good one is at PvP, you’ll get hit with this combo every now and again, the trick is speccing to survive it’s full force. And if you blow it up, even better.

You also have to take into account how difficult that combo is to pull off consistently in high skill level play against a moving target.

Again, the backstab combo is seriously not that hard to pull off. It might be one of the easiest combo’s in the game next to Bull Rush/100B (but that one is so much easier to dodge because you can SEE the warrior, 100B is fine). If you want to talk difficult combo’s, roll an Elementalist.
I rerolled a thief after playing Ele and seeing 50% of sPvP matches being thief/mesmer just to see the other side, and yeah, it’s laughable. The backstab spec sucks and good players will either eat it, or dodge it, and then blow you up. But let’s not pretend it’s a hard combo to land somewhat consistently…

Edited to add: After reading all of your responses Zachariel, it’s becoming clear that YOU likely play a thief with this spec, which is why you defend these cheese mechanics so blindly. If this is the case, grats on substituting class mechanics for any semblance of skill…

Teulux.6732:

On topic high level play the backstab build on the thief is trash and no competitive player would ever use it over pistol whip.

What you are seeing in this thread is people playing 8s and crying about the balance of the game when it is not really balanced for that type of play.

Any thief that goes that much into glass cannon is gonna get destroyed by a decent player that knows what the kitten he is doing. It is easy to predict/counter/avoid. The ONLY time you see that build is when people go pub stomping in 8s.

I pretty much agree with all of this, and again, I never cried for backstab to be nerfed.

Just pointing out that its a lame, cheesy spec played by people who wish to substitute class mechanics for skill (and it only works so far).

I’d far prefer if Anet would tone down the backstab combo (so sPvP matches wouldn’t be full of noobs trying to “1shot/global/1round” people, failing more often than not) and then buff the thief in terms of group utility, sustained damage, etc.

There is a reason why thieves are freaking EVERYWHERE in sPvP but rarely spotted in tPvP…

There is a reason it is called pub stomping and there is a reason you are raging on a pub stomping build (you are the pub being stomped)

to be fair, it think it’s PUGstomping, as in “pick-up group,” since everyone seems to be arguing semantics…

Hello OP, I dont think high damage is the problem, but rather going into stealth as often while not having the ability to reveal stealth.

no. that dmg is fubar’d. how people can compare it to 100B is a joke. You never see it coming, you don’t get to dodge, with the lack of healing in most classes you’ll never recover.

Stealth rendering issues are something else entirely. One class being able to game it’s way into one-shotting people is just borked. Anyone claiming L2P is deluded or trolling.

Bsquared.3421:

There is a reason it is called pub stomping and there is a reason you are raging on a pub stomping build (you are the pub being stomped)

to be fair, it think it’s PUGstomping, as in “pick-up group,” since everyone seems to be arguing semantics…

PuB = “pick-up badies”

:)

Just sayin!

kittening make AoE reveal stealth. “But there’s AoE going off everywhere al the time !” well good cause there are thiefs arguing they should keep their burst because they play the assasin roll.

Teulux.6732:

PuB = “pick-up badies”

:)

Just sayin!

I suppose if the name fits

Although, to be fair, I’ve encountered some very good players in pug/pub sPvP matches on occasion. But when I get into a match thats 50-60% thieves (and mesmers, typically) I just roll me eyes, dust off my cantrip mousekeys and prepare to get jumped nonstop. I think something about playing an Elementalist makes thief opponents eyes light up, like they think I’m some sort of free kill (cause of my class).

Then they unleash their backstab combo, take 50% of my health, trigger my armor of earth (thanks for the stability buddy!), then I switch to water and heal myself to full almost as fast as they took it away. This is often when they choose to run away….

Edited to add: Oh, and if I see the thief coming, I like to put up shocking aura before they engage (I run D/D). Most noob thieves then proceed to waste their combo and stun themselves in the process. It’s the good ones that know to back off at that point that scare me…

Zachariel.5463:

Congrats. you died from a very difficult combo to pull off. That is if you didn’t stop moving when the theif stealthed. Oherwise you had a big bullseye on your back that says “STAB HERE”

If it was hard everyone wouldn’t be doing it. There are videos on how to do it and it’s pretty obvious what they are doing after dying 1-2 times from it.

Bsquared.3421:

Teulux.6732:

PuB = “pick-up badies”

:)

Just sayin!

I suppose if the name fits

Although, to be fair, I’ve encountered some very good players in pug/pub sPvP matches on occasion. But when I get into a match thats 50-60% thieves (and mesmers, typically) I just roll me eyes, dust off my cantrip mousekeys and prepare to get jumped nonstop. I think something about playing an Elementalist makes thief opponents eyes light up, like they think I’m some sort of free kill (cause of my class).

Then they unleash their backstab combo, take 50% of my health, trigger my armor of earth (thanks for the stability buddy!), then I switch to water and heal myself to full almost as fast as they took it away. This is often when they choose to run away….

Edited to add: Oh, and if I see the thief coming, I like to put up shocking aura before they engage (I run D/D). Most noob thieves then proceed to waste their combo and stun themselves in the process. It’s the good ones that know to back off at that point that scare me…

Also that means you got lucky. My necro with 2k toughness got hit for with 2k steal 3k cloak and dagger 15k backstab.

Detahmaio.2014:

Also that means you got lucky. My necro with 2k toughness got hit for with 2k steal 3k cloak and dagger 15k backstab.

I’ve never personally seen a backstab that high hit my character. But i’m fully toughness/vit specced (I don’t know my toughness # off the top of my head) with earth’s embrace (armor of earth at 50% hp) and final shielding (arcane shield at 25% hp) traits. I’m pretty certain I’ve NEVER been downed by the dreaded 3 hit backstab combo from full HP (20k hp) but I’ve come close. Thankfully, when that does happen, due to my traiting I get 8s of stability, 8 seconds of protection (33% dmg reduction) and absorb 3 full hits due to the shield giving me time to heal up.

I don’t think Necro’s can trait like that (I admittedly don’t know a lot about the class) so I don’t know how you could survive it

Teulux.6732:

How about 15k 100 blades?

Funny how people think the thief is the only class to have high burst

Stop running kitten gear/builds and you will live longer vs glass cannons. Simple as that.

Almost EVERYTHING has a counter in this game. Learn them or quit crying. Simple as that

In other words….

L2P

LOL NO.

Every time someone says something like this I immediately know they’re talking out of their hindquarters.

Hundred Blades isn’t even REMOTELY comparable to this. It’s self-rooting, channeled, requires you put in some actual CC to land it (backstab is basically instantaneous), and doesn’t even work if you don’t use Frenzy first. Should I mention every form of warrior CC is predictable? You can see the bola coming. You can see the warrior charging at you. Can you see a thief shadow stepping on top of you and then hitting C&D anywhere near as easily as you can see a warrior coming at you? Not to mention they can apply CC instantaneously just by hitting the steal button!

No other class can match thief burst.

No other class can match thief burst.

This is a problem because it invalidates all other glass cannon builds by putting them down instantly, not to mention does its job better than all of them. It also makes the game not fun when you are instantly put into a disadvantage unless you’re specifically building a bunker spec character (in which case the thief was an idiot to target you and not one of your squishier teammates). The counter window is also too narrow to the point where it may as well not exist.

There are too many problems with this build and all the people defending it clearly have not the slightest clue how to build a fun PvP game. It needs to be fixed. Hell, if anything, Thief as a whole needs to be fixed… they can never really be balanced as long as stealth works the way it does.

2 second TTK in an MMO is just bad design. Arenanet will realize this at some point and change thieves and all other classes that can have a 2 second TTK. There are a lot of dumb people who will argue in favor of 2 second TTK until the cows go home but they’re ultimately fighting a losing battle because that simply isn’t what the consumer wants.

I usually don’t comment on things like this, but I will admit I do find an issue with an aspect to all of this.

Even if you execute very well defensively and avoid/counter the backstab assault, thieves have such good sustainability in mobility that it is very hard to punish them. Albeit in a tPvP environment, uselessly blowing your burst is pretty crippling, I guess you could just rotate around to another point and wait to backstab burst again. But lets be honest, poison share is better in team fights anyway =P.

I find that in a thread with 130+ posts, screenshots from multiple people clearly showing the problem and their frustration to be very disheartening that ANet hasn’t made a post yet

Well one would hope that they are listening.

Congrats. you died from a very difficult combo to pull off. That is if you didn’t stop moving when the theif stealthed. Oherwise you had a big bullseye on your back that says “STAB HERE”

HAHA very difficult.

Chris.7653:

I find that in a thread with 130+ posts, screenshots from multiple people clearly showing the problem and their frustration to be very disheartening that ANet hasn’t made a post yet

Well there’s a thief sticky in this section, there must be a reason devs/mods stickied that.

Bsquared.3421:

Zachariel.5463:

You really need to learn the definition of what “One Shot” is.

Means you die in one shot. The thief does not One Shot someone.

Well then, it’s a good thing I didn’t mention the phrase “one shot” a single time in either of my two posts. I did mention “3 hits” however, so….

And to point out..I was talking about the thief being glass cannon not the player that died to him. Learn reading comprehension please.

Fair enough, but in your next sentence you said “he was just outplayed,” and I assumed those two consecutive sentences were connected and talking about the same player. My bad.

Also to point out…he obviously wasn’t watching his HUD or he would have seen his health drop from the initial steal or he would have known to dodge

I spec 0/0/10/30/30 on my ele, meaning the 3 hits (e.g., Steal/C&D/BS) don’t kill typically. I also carry 3 cantrips, so I almost always have at least one stunbreaker off cooldown.
That being said, I HAVE been hit with this combo in sPvP occasionally and you really don’t have a lot of time to react if it’s a good thief pulling it off (to be fair, most thieves running this spec are horrible, which is why they rely on this gimmick as a crutch to farm kills. This is also why they panic and try to run away a lot when the combo DOESN’T kill me as an Ele, they expected a free kill). More often than not, all 3 hits will land without the thief becoming visible at all (due to the lag in rendering when coming out of stealth) and will land in a second or two tops. No matter how good one is at PvP, you’ll get hit with this combo every now and again, the trick is speccing to survive it’s full force. And if you blow it up, even better.

You also have to take into account how difficult that combo is to pull off consistently in high skill level play against a moving target.

Again, the backstab combo is seriously not that hard to pull off. It might be one of the easiest combo’s in the game next to Bull Rush/100B (but that one is so much easier to dodge because you can SEE the warrior, 100B is fine). If you want to talk difficult combo’s, roll an Elementalist.
I rerolled a thief after playing Ele and seeing 50% of sPvP matches being thief/mesmer just to see the other side, and yeah, it’s laughable. The backstab spec sucks and good players will either eat it, or dodge it, and then blow you up. But let’s not pretend it’s a hard combo to land somewhat consistently…

Edited to add: After reading all of your responses Zachariel, it’s becoming clear that YOU likely play a thief with this spec, which is why you defend these cheese mechanics so blindly. If this is the case, grats on substituting class mechanics for any semblance of skill…

Actually I only got my thief up to lvl 49 and used him in sPVP from rank 1-10..after that it was my mesmer. I prefure the difficulty level required to play mesmer well. It fits my personal playstyle better. Didn’t like the playstyle of thief, not to mention they do not bring a lot in tPVP which is what I enjoy doing. Theives are the antisocials of the group. They tend to run alone and not play well with others as their interactions with the team are limited (specially since their rescources can take a thief out of a fight or limit their damage output to a point).

What I think would solve a lot of problems is make backstab use intiative 4-5 initiative and make steal use two initiative while giving them some toughness to make up for the trade. It would break that combo and actually increase the difficulty of pulling it off and make it actually be a finisher. It would also break the thief unless they recieved something (or actually give them some team oriented utilies that don’t get them blown up in the process of using them).

(And just to point out…no the combo is not hard to pull off if you are standing still. If you are moving around they still have to run up to you and behind you in 3-4 seconds depending on traits to do a back stab) And that signet that makes them run faster doesn’t help much when the theif is in combat

Zachariel.5463:

And to answer your question..watch your health. If he specced for stealth on steal he’ll use it first. Then back stab, then cloak and dagger followed by another back stab. That is how it is done. The way to get around that…dodge as soon as your health drops as they are going for the back stab which they have to maneuver around you to pull off. Don’t stand there. That is asking them to be able to pull off their move.

I just want to point out, that this is not the combo people are talking about…It’s Bas Venom, C/D, Steal, Signet, BS, and if they happen to be alive (they’re at least now still in place because of the immobilize talent) hs to finish them off.

I’m getting awfully tired of the thief rants.

Take a look at this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Skill-Coefficients-for-all-the-Thief-weapons

It’s pretty obvious to see why people predominantly run burst DD builds as nearly every other option available, from a DPS perspective on a DPS class, is horrendous. NONE of our other weapons are REMOTELY as viable as D/D. I will even add that I am FOR a reduction in BS damage/sigil use if they could PLEASE revisit EVERYTHING ELSE!!!

Second, I call bullkitten on that photo. Rarely have I ever seen a BS above 10k, let alone 19. Even with sigil averages are between 7-9. Photoshoping a ‘1’ in front of the 9 is easily more likely.

I get that playing against a class that can vanish is frustrating, especially coupled with damage but its not a ‘free win’. If you don’t believe me, play the kitten class. Backstab misses constantly, stealth fails, CnD is impossible to land in most firefights because people are leaping/rolling all over the place. Add to that a BS thief has MAYBE 1000 toughness (Default is 966 for a ‘true’ build) and 14K hp and only one get out of jail card. BS thieves get absolutely destroyed by hammer warriors, any type of guardian, and necros just run around essentially invulnerable and wear us down. Dont even get me started on ‘bunker builds’, particularly elementalists. You think thieves are OP? I saw a good bunker ele take on 5 attackers and survive/heal through a 5 minute or more battle and come out on top. Its like whiddling down Mt. Everest with a dinner knife.

The bottom line is if they nerf BS builds WITHOUT buffing our other options, the thief has now become the most useless of classes. Unable to put out reliable damage, with no support utilities to contribute, and mediocre at best conditons/boons we will be relegated to just being ‘annoying’. The next ‘build’ will consist of full acrobatics, vitality and toughness with a shortbow and all we do is roll and ‘3’ putting out no damage but annoying the ever loving hell out of anyone whos trying to kill us.

Yea. Fun.