Unranked Is a Poor Laboratory

Unranked Is a Poor Laboratory

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Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

Like a lot of folks, I’ve spent a good portion of my PvP since the close of the season experimenting with builds to determine what will work best. Unfortunately, the only venue to which we have access is Unranked, which seems to draw from a very large pool — selecting a broad range of talent — in order to speed up queues. Some games I get pro team players. Some games I get people who don’t know what “home” means. The upshot is we’re never quite certain if something is working because it’s good, or because the people we’re fighting would lose to a pack dolyak.

Standard Caveat: I play all professions. Anything said about your favorite profession is not an insult. You are not your profession; you are a player in a game.

Some thoughts about minor (and not-so-minor) adjustments that could improve play. Let me know if I’m operating from mistaken impressions or conclusions.


My greatest number of games are on Necro. I think that Necromancer is currently a bit over-tuned. If I had to narrow it down to a tweak, I’d suggest that it’s the boon corruption on Putrid Curse (Sc 3rd AA). That might be just a tad too strong. Then again, since almost everyone seems to be a condi-bomber or a boon-spewer, it may be necessary for the current game.


The “bunker meta” didn’t quite go away; it’s just been shifted. Don’t get me wrong; so far this is way better than the season and it’s refreshing to be able to get off a stomp and have midpoint change hands at some time in a match. Still, a number of specs retain ludicrously high sustain (though admittedly not all share it with the team). Put a Druid and a Tempest next to one another and it’s a hell of a deal to dislodge ’em.

The issue that remains is that the breed of bunkers that appeared with HoT don’t have the weaknesses of traditional bunkers: They deal a lot of damage and they’re highly mobile. Once people get a hang of builds and play with the new amulets, I expect we’re going to see a lot more grinding against brick walls.


The other offspring of HoT that hasn’t disappeared is the amount of AoE, and especially AoE cc. The trick to killing someone in a team fight isn’t careful focus, but stunlocking him in a corner and dropping circles all over. This is highlighted by a prevalence of condition builds of the new mode. Where once condition builds had to play attentively, most now just throw conditions everywhere without much thought.

Condi Mes play is a prime example: Push a button, any button. Was it a skill? Good, you just applied multiple conditions in a circle. You don’t even have to see your target. Reaper, Ranger, others are in the same boat. I’ve played a lot of condi Necro, and I despise how simpleminded the condi Reaper build is. There’s no easy fix here, but it’s a disappointing direction for things to have gone and we’d do well to be mindful of it moving forward.


Unless we see notable changes before the next season, I don’t see Warrior having a place in it. I’ve been playing Warrior a good deal this offseason and watching others. I’ve done very well with certain builds, but in every case I’ve been conscious of my kit’s inferiority, especially in sustain and damage output. I’ve found Warrior to be most effective as support pressure in small skirmishes (2 or 3 a side). That’s a crappy role to have.

Warrior’s sustain arguably used to be too good, and it was adjusted accordingly. Then came HoT, when everyone’s damage went up, and suddenly Warrior was on its back foot. With Warrior’s once stellar support abilities also diminished, of course there was no seat for it on the team. Warrior is locked to two trait lines — realistically three, since most will take the elite as well. I hate power creep as much as the next person, but it may be that some abilities need improvement — not in a tacked-on functionality fashion like Shattering Blow, but in a real look at some core utilities.


Mesmer’s chances of staying in the top tier are also looking fairly grim. Bunker Mesmer can still be played, but it’s a shell of its former self. Sure, it was bland to play and silly to fight, but it was a role for Mesmer. In light of the changes, its shortcomings as a bunker (selfish condi-clear and healing) glare that much brighter for the losses of Alacrity effectiveness and Quickness stomps/rezzes.

Shatter Mesmer still suffers from being Shatter Mesmer. I’ll probably repeat myself here, but anyone that does what a Thief does but not as well as Thief is going to be inferior to Thief. Thief is the ideal backcap/+1. The only advantage Mes had over Thief was the ability to do a lot of damage from further away (though this was not maximizing damage). Condi Mes can be a pain to deal with in a teamfight, but they still can’t contest a point.


The range on “Search and Rescue!” is probably a bit too great. Hey, I’ve been saved by it when I thought all was lost and it’s neat, but the fact that someone in mid-stomp can lose track of the victim because it was teleported halfway to the next node is a bit extreme. This isn’t in the same league as Quickness rezzing, but it could stand to be toned down slightly.

Unranked Is a Poor Laboratory

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Posted by: Tomiyou.3790

Tomiyou.3790

The other offspring of HoT that hasn’t disappeared is the amount of AoE, and especially AoE cc. The trick to killing someone in a team fight isn’t careful focus, but stunlocking him in a corner and dropping circles all over. This is highlighted by a prevalence of condition builds of the new mode. Where once condition builds had to play attentively, most now just throw conditions everywhere without much thought.

Condi Mes play is a prime example: Push a button, any button. Was it a skill? Good, you just applied multiple conditions in a circle. You don’t even have to see your target. Reaper, Ranger, others are in the same boat. I’ve played a lot of condi Necro, and I despise how simpleminded the condi Reaper build is. There’s no easy fix here, but it’s a disappointing direction for things to have gone and we’d do well to be mindful of it moving forward.

This guy gets it.

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Posted by: Siren.2843

Siren.2843

Everything should be on par with warriors, then you got a nice game

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

I think the problem for necro is its huuuge stat boosts that it can get for relatively free. Combine this with a tanky amulet and yeah there will be imbalances. I think the might could stand to be toned down a little, and maybe Deathly Perception could be made conditional (only works on vulnerable targets). That way you force the player to choose between unblockable marks and deathly perception working 100% of the time with vuln on RS auto. I think these two things would help tremendously.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

I think the problem for necro is its huuuge stat boosts that it can get for relatively free. Combine this with a tanky amulet and yeah there will be imbalances. I think the might could stand to be toned down a little, and maybe Deathly Perception could be made conditional (only works on vulnerable targets). That way you force the player to choose between unblockable marks and deathly perception working 100% of the time with vuln on RS auto. I think these two things would help tremendously.

Needing Vuln for the trait to work is a low barrier: the Spite line is giving you Bitter Chill, and there’s plenty of Vuln going around anyway. No one would give up Soul Marks for any tradeoff. Additionally, I’m pretty sure most condi builds run Dhuumfire; Death Perception is more of a power thing.

As far as Might goes, I’d say it represents the ol’ “compelling choice” the developers have promised. With all the corruption going around, a million stacks of Might turns into a year of Weakness and you can never dodge (not actual math). Some folks run Curses now, but you definitely notice the lack of Might.

I’m not terribly concerned with Necro damage, since they still lack real burst. I enjoy having boon corruption, but — especially with RNG as a factor — having it with no real cd is very strong, and a lucky couple system rolls can obliterate a Druid, Rev, Tempest, or Scrapper — while bad rolls can do zilch. It’s kind of clumsy right now. I could be wrong. Maybe without the scepter corruption Necro wouldn’t have a place. I just get the sense that in some fights I’m being carried by mechanics more than I am succeeding through ability, and I don’t want that.

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Posted by: Sardath.8524

Sardath.8524

However powerful necros may be, at least they have a weakness: kiting.

My other gripe is with scrappers. The amount of combined damage and sustain they have is way out of line. Add to that a lot of CC and utility to the team. Either shave of the damage, or the sustain.

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

Complain if you want to about condi mesmer. Because of all the qq about Chronomancer and the nuke nerfs, there really aren’t any other good options on Mesmer.

Y’all made your bed on that one and I smile every time I down a rev with confusion and bleed. Rather.. I watch them down themselves.

Mesmerising Girl

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Posted by: larocca.8391

larocca.8391

However powerful necros may be, at least they have a weakness: kiting.

My other gripe is with scrappers. The amount of combined damage and sustain they have is way out of line. Add to that a lot of CC and utility to the team. Either shave of the damage, or the sustain.

Try kite a Reaper while chilled, with the reaper having -66% on any cripple etc you put on him.
If your class has any leaps or teleports you’re lucky, otherwise bend over to the fotm necro overlords.

Scrappers have too much synergy with the scrapper tree and their kits, also the insane heals from an evade framed multi leap finisher, gl trying to stop that.
Damage is ok if their survival went down or vice versa, no class should have considerable damage AND sustainability.

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Posted by: suffish.4150

suffish.4150

As far as necros being OP is concerned, I completely disagree. On my Druid I can just do LB 4 to knock back, rapid fire to do a huge amount of damage and to immobilise with the ancient seeds trait and at the same time as rapid fire, use bristleback f2 ability which is a 100% hit due to immobilise and if that necro doesn’t have a decent amount of life force to fall back on they are dead. That combo takes maybe 5 seconds, I don’t know the exact time but an OP class would not die that easily 1v1.
As for search and rescue being OP, I do agree that it is too powerful in its current state but if it was given maybe a slight range decrees and a cast time so it could be interrupted it would still be a powerful skill but would have some way to counter it. Right now I can just do search+rescue, rampage as one for stability and almost always get the res. If that is not enough I can just use signet of stone and get the revive even with 3 players trying to cleave the downed body. If it was interrupted however, there would be no way to save that player so I think that is a good change to make, or maybe not, I don’t really understand how to balance.

PvP- Stronlo Beastmaster (Ranger)
PvE- Grolex (Warrior)
PvP rank: 20 Rating: 1864 (season 7)

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

Oh my bad for some reason I thought Deathly Perception was being used. Well I still think the amount of might they can pump out is redonkulous. The boon conversion table is a bit op as far as condition durations go. Swiftness/might turn into 10 sec of cripple/weakness. Much redonk, considering how common those boons are, and how easily necro can apply them in the first place. Idk. I’ve always liked necro, but hey, the redonk is real.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

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Posted by: Midi.8359

Midi.8359

I agree with the first paragraph, but can’t really comment of the rest of your thoughts.

I mean the first post is structured like this: “Unranked is a Poor Laboratory.” Then: “hey guys here’s what I’ve discovered in my super-poor laboratory.”

Too many people aren’t playing to win, to justify drawing conclusions. I normally play 100% for the win, but on unranked I often go for super-risky plays just to see if I can outplay my opponents. I’m certain I’m not the only one who does this because of unranked.