Guild Wars 2

Also, if you’re watching individual streamers rather than ESL, there’s the issue when they get awful matchmaking and are basically twiddling their thumbs watching their team lose.

All the good streamers have quit streaming GW2 PvP. There’s pretty much never more than 250 viewers (including PvE) anymore, except when that 500 man viewbot makes its rounds.

SolarDragon.7063:

Also, if you’re watching individual streamers rather than ESL, there’s the issue when they get awful matchmaking and are basically twiddling their thumbs watching their team lose.

Well, any half-decent individual streamers aren’t streaming anymore because of year long queue times and doing nothing but basically kitten while waiting in HotM.

Power creep and lack of class balancing render the fight outcomes predictable.

1- Too much confusion
2- Too much cam switch

2vs2 is perfect instead, many other twitch 2vs2 event was really more enjoyable to watch

Why should people watch something that is not even fun to play? The last time I tried to watch a gw2 pvp stream, the streamer who is or was apparently rank 1 in eu spent around 2/3 of the game sitting at/running around the clock tower while winning 500 to ~100. He could most likely have been afk in base all game and the outcome of the match would be the same because of how uneven the teams were.
Why would anyone want to watch that? Might as well watch paint dry or grass grow.

1. I can’t choose who to follow, the casters and whoever controls the cams tend to move to a spot I don’t care about. Often I just want to watch a 1v1 or 2v2 fight, but the cams always blink around and move away right before something good happens. If I can’t enjoy a fight from start to finish, it’s pointless to watch them. Since GW2 PvP is conquest based, and revolves around 3 circles and such, it’s hard to follow what really is going on when things are going on all over the place.

2. Blowouts are not fun to watch, too many blowouts even at pro tourney level. While super comebacks are possible, they are still too rare.

3. For a 5v5 setting, conquest just isn’t as fun to watch nor to play in (my opinion). 5v5 is best played in deathmatch or capture the flag modes. Both of these modes would make the game more exciting, faster paced, more easy to follow for viewers, and there are focal points to these gamemodes to allow better casting & cam movement. I’ve always preferred conquest game modes with more than 5 players.

4. Conquest game mode requires you to play the game a certain way, thus limiting build variety. This is where staleness sits in. No matter what team you’re watching, or which match up you’re following, you’re watching essentially the same classes, same builds, and similar playstyles.

MMO PvP are all boring to watch because of the genre. You would have to simplify it like a Moba, CSGO or Overwatch for it to look entertaining. Heck, I saw Overwatch on Twitch for the first time and even though I haven’t played it, it was entertaining to watch.

It’s not clear what the 12+ skills do on a given class and when they’re used.
It’s not clear how something failed or succeeded because of passive; basically additional abilities people can’t see.

Anet would have to reinvent the genre in GW3 for the game to be anywhere near the top Esports games. But hey, that was never their goal from the get go :P

Saiyan.1704:

MMO PvP are all boring to watch because of the genre. You would have to simplify it like a Moba, CSGO or Overwatch for it to look entertaining. Heck, I saw Overwatch on Twitch for the first time and even though I haven’t played it, it was entertaining to watch.

It’s not clear what the 12+ skills do on a given class and when they’re used.
It’s not clear how something failed or succeeded because of passive; basically additional abilities people can’t see.

Anet would have to reinvent the genre in GW3 for the game to be anywhere near the top Esports games. But hey, that was never their goal from the get go :P

WoW PvP is substantially more complex than GW2 PvP and people STILL prefer to watch it, even though it’s gone to the kittenter. The problem isn’t complexity.

What keeps me from watching PvP on twitch?: Twitch, I hate it.

Please change to YouTube.

Also, the camera flops around too much. “Wait, what just happened!? Go back to Chaith man!”

What keeps me from watching pvp on twitch?

Brain cells. I seem to have too many.

1. why are you not watching pvp on twitch?
   - watching somebody play soloq is boring.
   - watching teamfights is disgusting because of all the random stuff on the screen.
   - many streamers are bad / not funny, why would i watch them.
   - tournaments are boring because there is no build diversity, no pocket picks, too many effects on the screen, and with all due respect to jebro… the casters are bad and unprofessional.

1. how could ANet improve viewer experience?
   - reduce visual clutter. and even then it will still be boring because there are no crucial plays, important skills; you just spam most of what’s on your skill bar…
   - casters need to become more professional. no hype casting.. no play by play casting all the time.. camera is terrible, often the camera doesn’t show the important stuff but rather a boring fight. where did the double camera casting go from NA?
   - build diversity. in gw2 you can basically run the exact same comp with the exact same traits on every single map… there is no build diversity at all…

1. What is the most imprtant thing you look for in a pvp srtream?
   - skill, if i watch a stream i either wanna learn or i wanna see amazing games
   - skill got less important over the years, so tbh it’s not even worth watching gw2 streams anymore

1. Do you think that the MM and leaderboard is gating the growth of GW on twitch?
   no

i just recently watched the finals of heroes of the storm global championship which had 56k viewers.. and then i remember the pro league finals for gw2 that had like.. 2-3k max?

the casters, the production, it’s all just simply better and more fun to watch. matches are actually interesting and you have a lot of diversity in teamcomps, even if there’s a strong meta.

that’s not the case in gw2, production is bad, camera is cringy… casting is meh and it’s basically always the same teamcomps… and the same 2-3 teams..

Watson.6492:

Saiyan.1704:

MMO PvP are all boring to watch because of the genre. You would have to simplify it like a Moba, CSGO or Overwatch for it to look entertaining. Heck, I saw Overwatch on Twitch for the first time and even though I haven’t played it, it was entertaining to watch.

It’s not clear what the 12+ skills do on a given class and when they’re used.
It’s not clear how something failed or succeeded because of passive; basically additional abilities people can’t see.

Anet would have to reinvent the genre in GW3 for the game to be anywhere near the top Esports games. But hey, that was never their goal from the get go :P

WoW PvP is substantially more complex than GW2 PvP and people STILL prefer to watch it, even though it’s gone to the kittenter. The problem isn’t complexity.

Conquest ia definitely more complex than WoW’s BGs & 2v2/3v3/5v5 arenas. Only reason WoW is showing more PvP action on twitch is because there’s more to do, there’s no standing around (doing nothing for 10m in HotM) and the player pool is insane. If the game was popular with a player base as big as WoW than gw2 would see more views on twitch.

Both games are boring to watch.

Because most streamers are bad, not bad as in bad gameplay, just bad streamers. Watching them is a boring experience even if you cam learn a lot.

1 why are you not watching pvp on twitch?
I don’t give a danm on esport especially Guild Wars 2

2 how could ANet improve viewer experience?
Less on esport and more on improving the matchmaking!

3 What is the most imprtant thing you look for in a pvp srtream?
N/A

4 Do you think that the MM and leaderboard is gating the growth of GW on twitch?
I don’t care

The game has become garbage. That’s about it. The only reason I even play 3 matches a day is because of the sunk cost fallacy I’ve fallen victim to. I’m so close to the Ascension it would be like a waste to quit now, but by and large the game is horrible. It is agony to play it and every time I log in I want give that stupid backpack the middle finger and forget it.

Conquest ia definitely more complex than WoW’s BGs & 2v2/3v3/5v5 arenas. Only reason WoW is showing more PvP action on twitch is because there’s more to do, there’s no standing around (doing nothing for 10m in HotM) and the player pool is insane. If the game was popular with a player base as big as WoW than gw2 would see more views on twitch.
Both games are boring to watch.

I was talking about mechanics. And no, Conquest is not more complex than 3v3 arenas; mentioning 5v5 and 2v2 arenas is fairly ignorant.

WoW is much more mechanically interesting. Not even a little bit so; there’s actual notable skill in the game, and simply using your abilities on cooldown isn’t optimal.

It’s a bad game, though, so I’m not defending it.

……the pvp…….

Find gw2 boring cause:

- conquest mode only, it is ugly to observe so much redundancy and obvious classes.
- lack of balance towards all weapon sets
-lack of build diversity / lacks of options, must ending what Anet calls strong.
- players go arround 1 or 2 builds in 3 or 4 classes
- some classes are super useless due Anet lack of balance…
- low skill floor when using the prefered classes.

Booooring…… to watch players using gimmickly placebo class concept and call it skill.

Gw1 required much more from players and was simplier to watch/observe.
Gw2 is the joke of all pvp games.

I still watch GvG’s grom gw1…. might even return to that game…

MadVisions.4529:

1 why are you not watching pvp on twitch?

Honest answer? It’s boring to watch.

I’ve watched SC, SC2, LoL, HotS, WoW Dota and CS:Go(which I don’t even play). All of those games were more fun to watch than GW2.

Main reasons I believe are:

A.) simplicity to follow. CS:Go you can pick up within 5 minutes of watching. Sure you won’t get the details as for each position, but you get the general drift.

LoL, HotS and Dota have way less complex classes or amount of skills to follow. Also the top down view gives a better overview of what is actually happening. The entire pre fight pick and ban phase also adds a strategic layer which allows for interesting banter

B.) rooting for a team The GW2 pvp community is tiny. Other games have crossgame teams which you can root for if you want to. You a fan of Teamliquid’s SC2 team? They are playing CS:Go right now, have a watch.

C.) map variety/objectives It’s conquest conquest conquest. Even CS:Go alternates the teams between offensive and defensive.

MadVisions.4529:

2 how could ANet improve viewer experience?

Hard to say. As others mentioned, MMO pvp has never been big. Even WoW arena had a tiny playerbase compared to the overall playerbase.

The most they can do is work on the actual game mode. Adding maps that are easy to follow with alternating objectives for example. GvG in GW1 worked on exactly this basis.

Class wise the lacking trinty hurts. It makes the game very tough to follow for non GW2 players, and even tough to follow for non pvp players.

When watching a pvp stream always ask youself this:

- how would someone who has never seen/heard/played this game perceive what he sees?
- is what you are seeing interesting to said person?
- would nachos or popcorn work well while watching this pvp event?

MadVisions.4529:

3 What is the most imprtant thing you look for in a pvp srtream?

Entertainment.

Esports work on a very similar principle as regular sport. Even more so in certain respects since here you can try to emulate what you see (build wise, setup, etc.). Try doing something a trained NBA player does(insert sport of your choice), good luck on that.

You watch sports to be entertained be it by:

- rooting for your favorite team, country, player, etc.
- the atmosphere, less so on TV but go watch some ice hockey live and tell me it was boring.
- seeing humans in peak athletic condition work wonders
- you like placing bets

Some of these things can get copied to esports, others can’t.

Terrible balance…….

I think the pro league finals were really entertaining this season. I liked it even if the class balance drove me away from the PvP already

Individuals, only Helseth and ROM are worth watching because:

1) Persona’s – they keep it interesting
2) Quality game play – you always know you’re going to get quality game play… when they get queue pops
3) I’m 100% certain ROM is legit crazy

But it really has nothing to do with GW2. Watching GW2 pvp is actually pretty boring and just not something that’s easy to follow.