Guild Wars 2

Well I just tried to come back to PvP after having not played for a month or two. I started in a few regular matches and felt I was back in the swing of things so I tried doing some tournament matches. The very first game we get destroyed 500 to 100 and all the while an enemy player is calling me “garbage” and a “piece of kitten”. The very next game I got on the trebuchet at the beginning of the match only to be attacked right away and killed. Then one of my team mates told me I sucked at trebbing and that I should go back to regular matches. That sort of stuff isn’t just demoralizing, it’s distracting and it’s difficult to keep playing in a regular fashion. I always feel like “now I gotta one up them” and I just end up playing worse and not working with my team mates like I should. It makes me want to stop PvPing.

So when does this sort of thing cross the line into verbal abuse? The only thing I can really do about it is report it since trying to talk back is pointless, but I don’t want to go reporting something unless I know it’s a violation for sure.

I dunno, Personally I disagree with reporting people for verbal abuse. I think people should be entitled to their freedom of speech as well as their freedom to ignore it. Simply block the players so you no longer see their messages.

I think a lot of these issues would solved if the enemy teams couldn’t communicate to each other via chats or emotes. Corpse jumping will still be a thing though.

As far as people on your team talking kitten. Its going to happen. Every one will place the blame on something and it usually isn’t themselves. Some times its legitimate. One really bad decision could cost your team the match. Learn from it. Also, you have to have tough skin and not get emotional in every game/sport in game and in real life. Take the hits and move on. In the end as cheesy as it sounds its all about believing in yourself and knowing you have the skills to compete at the highest level.

IIvIIozzie.9250:

I think people should be entitled to their freedom of speech as well as their freedom to ignore it.

Simply block the players so you no longer see their messages.

There is no freedom of speech in a private service provided to you by a company. You are allowed to say what they allow you to say, as defined by the Terms of Service.

I do agree that the Block function should be utilized for such minor grievances though.

The problem could partially be the current matchmaking system.
You might have been teamed up with people that are much higher rated/ranked than you. This happens very often and in your case the guy trash talking might have lost 3 games in a row having rank 1’s on his team.
Then it would make sense for him to be frustrated and a little on edge, so when you lose the treb “right away” something tells him that he will also lose this match.
Trash Talking is unfortunately a part of the game, but it’s necessary being able to communicate with the other team for sportsmansship as well.
I often give credit to the enemy team if they play well, but I’m also the first one to ask the rank 1 if he would please play hot-join before joining tournaments.

It’s always verbal abuse. Report it.

When you’re playing in tournaments, people will be competitive. But the enemy player talking trash in that manner was unacceptable. You should have just reported him. I don’t know any decent players that call other players “garbage” when they win, that’s as low as you get on the sportsmanship ladder.

Theplayboy.6417:

As far as people on your team talking kitten. Its going to happen. Every one will place the blame on something and it usually isn’t themselves.

Yes, unfortunately many hard-core PvPers will blame ANYONE but themselves for any mistakes that happen in a game. I always think of this comic whenever it happens to me…

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120328

:)

As far as the verbal abuse issue goes, I ignore them and THEN report them as well. I know I won’t have to read their trash anymore, but I also might as well get a report started to stop them from abusing others as well. The really sad part of it is that for many of these people who trash-talk you in PvP, belittling you in order to make themselves feel superior to you is the only real highlight and accomplishment they will ever get in their lives. While I understand that situation, I still do not believe it is a reason to excuse their abuse.

Thanks.

Combat tab ftw.

My opinion is trash talking should either be meant in a funny manner or done coming up to a major tournament match for fan entertainment.

Being rude like you described is not needed imo. Unfortunately you cant always blame them, chances are they just had it happen to them or that they are just frustrated. I’d like to think its rarely that they are an kitten normally.

PvP will always have trash talking, trash them better and they soon shut up :p

If it bothers you stop Pugging and form some teams!

TH

Trash talk IS verbal abuse. I suggest reporting all who do it.

You are way off… the insults ONLY come from online/video game situations, because in the real world if you talk to someone like that, you can do something about it yourself.

The smack talkers tend to stay online in their virtual worlds where there are no repercussions for being a jerk,

Trash-talk usually DOES take the form of verbal abuse. Verbal abuse usually does take the form of trash-talking. Verbal abuse is just as much an abuse as any other kind of abuse; everything we perceive is in our heads anyway.

It has absolutely nothing to do about being a carebear, but simply a principle of respecting people. I do not understand why people have such a need to defend the the lack of respect for other people .. usually that sort of defense is associated with dis-social/anti-social personality disorder (what is more commonly known as psychopaths/sociopaths).
PS: Agree with Aydenunited

As has been pointed out, there is a vocal minority, those are just best to ignore. One does need a thick skin for pvp. Not saying its ok to be a jerk. Just there are some ppl that cannot be changed. So why even waste time with them? There will always be those that trash talk in a game “hiding” behind a keyboard. Let them be. come on, its all they have in a game or real life. Anyone that has stood up to bullies know full well they are the biggest puss of all.

Do you – honestly – find that silently conforming and thereby accepting verbal abuse as a perfectly OK way to act, is the right response? You would be surprised how few ppl really react to RL-violence with taking action/responsibility to protect/help others. But that doesn’t make it OK to just observe in silence and not taking action/responsibility. It is really the same thing.
I might add, that it takes a thick skin to react proportionally, since the way ppl conform among gamers is in fact to “not act”. That is perfectly “normal” btw, but nevertheless not less scary.

What would this “button” do? What would the punishment be?

That is because in other games, GMs won’t punish that kind of behavior, or if they do it isn’t a very hard punishment.
They just thing about it, that those people might unsubscribe then. GW2 is different as it doesn’t have a subscription fee.
You can see people who got banned for too much offensive speak right here in the forum (mostly account issue subforum).
Your attitude if used too often will get you banned.
It doesn’t matter what you think is normal in a PvP environment. It doesn’t matter if you think that they are ‘crybabies’. They have the terms of service on their side. Do it too often and get banned.
If someone trash talks, it doesn’t matter if that person tries to talk to me or anyone else: Report and go on. I won’t reply to it, or give it any more attention than this report.

If that person does it too often… well face the consequences of your behavior.

“Big boys” … ?
What you really are saying is: Might is right. If you can’t see exactly how wrong that is, I can’t help you.

I just report everything (unless done in a joking manner), there’s no reason for being a jerk. The more you report the better the community will get, I say.

Poxxia.1547:

“Big boys” … ?
What you really are saying is: Might is right. If you can’t see exactly how wrong that is, I can’t help you.

Actually, that’s part of the delusion of this… there’s no might involved, there’s no “tough guy” or “big boys” it’s just gamers that talk trash and are insulting and inconsiderate, and those that are considerate and polite.

The whole real world thing weeds this out, because nobody talks to each other like that in the real world, and there’s a reason for it. MIGHT (i.e. consequences… losing your job, losing your friends, getting your face smashed in, etc.)

The problem here is that there is a line down the middle, and everyone’s middle is different. I really don’t mind a little trash talking, but when it’s repetitive, personally insulting, and/or people gang up on one other person, I have no tolerance for that, in the real world OR video games.

Tough has nothing to do with it, and there’s no point even bringing up the word in a game or over an internet forum, anybody can be tough over text.

In any sense, as others have said…. when in doubt, report it. The mods don’t ban every single person reported, but you put the decision in their hands, where it belongs in this case. It’s actually one of the better aspects of Anet’s business model, they are quite good at supporting their community and weeding out griefers. Anyone around at game launch will be quite familiar with this notion.

Sorry but being mature is not talking on such a low level at all.
Being mature also includes following the rules, or in this case the terms of service.
Being mature also includes reporting someone who breaks said terms of service.

Someone needing trash talk is not mature. Not at all.
I am wondering if you also talk and think that way when talking to your friends, family, your boss or complete strangers?
If not, why don’t you do that?

Tellah.8073:

well sorry if youre joining a game which involves smashing eachothers face in with a wooden pole and people arent talking about rainbows and lollipops as you would like. Pvp is highly competitive, emotions get charged, anger commonly ensues, its the nature of pvp. Normal people would say, if you cant handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. But in the case of carebares, you say if you cant handle the heat, ask anet to come remove the stove.

And another false statement.
If you get angered by a video game, and to compensate have to insult someone when you win, you should look for a different hobby or, and I really feel somewhat sorry to tell you this in this way and thread, some professional help.

Think about it, that you are talking to another human being there. You don’t know how their day was. They might lost their job or family member or something else bad just happened in their life, and just need something to distract them for a bit. And then someone just starts to insult them because they can’t really concentrate on the game…

I really hope that you will get a timed suspenstion for a few days once you collected enough reports. And I really hope ANet comes with a good way of making you think about why that happened. Best thing ANet could do is, give such offenders a mail which includes the lines why they got suspented, and then let them write apologies. And the account stays closed until those apologies are written.
That way people learn to think about what they wrote…

i never advocated getting angry and making rude remarks, it simply happens. Its not about a game its about human nature, especially when heavy competition is involved. No one ever loses their temper on purpose, yet it happens to all of us. The main issue is everyone has varying interpretations of what is offensive. What the OP considered offensive is laughable to me, and when you get all the mutes trigger-happy with the report button and people start getting worried about being banned for mild trashtalk than you end up with a dull boring pvp experience that doesnt even feel like pvp but like pve with player AI.

Again, i dont advocate over the top outright continuous slandering and this should be reported, but im afraid you carebears will use this as a greenlight to report anyone who says anything that rattles your precious little PVegos

Tellah.8073:

i never advocated getting angry and making rude remarks, it simply happens. Its not about a game its about human nature, especially when heavy competition is involved. No one ever loses their temper on purpose, yet it happens to all of us. The main issue is everyone has varying interpretations of what is offensive. What the OP considered offensive is laughable to me, and when you get all the mutes trigger-happy with the report button and people start getting worried about being banned for mild trashtalk than you end up with a dull boring pvp experience that doesnt even feel like pvp but like pve with player AI.

Again, i dont advocate over the top outright continuous slandering and this should be reported, but im afraid you carebears will use this as a greenlight to report anyone who says anything that rattles your precious little PVegos

No it is not in the human nature. Take a look at certain sports. The people fighting in a championship there don’t insult each other. They don’t trashtalk about each other just because they won or lost. They might just lost a championship, yet they congratulate the winner, while the winners show their appreciation by thanking them for a good game.
A single offense, even in the heat of a game, results in penalties with immediate removal from that game and following that game, they often have to make payments. Just for a single insult towards another player.

A few months ago, a greek soccer player named Giorgos Katidis made a very inappropriate gesture after scoring a goal. The result was that he got banned on lifetime from all national games, got removed from the greek national team and basically his career ended at the age of 20.

If you want something from online games, there was also a story about a LoL championship were 2 top-players got banned from a running tournament for repeated verbal offense.

And again, it doesn’t matter if you thing it is laughable. It is against the terms of service which you accepted.

There’s no such thing as verbal abuse…..society has become so soft and pathetic. -_-
Words mean nothing unless you allow them to, get some thicker skin.

Since i cant hit through internet connection every time someone does this i report them (right click on the character name, then report, its so easy)

Fenrir.5493:

Since i cant hit through internet connection every time someone does this i report them (right click on the character name, then report, its so easy)

Yes, you pretend that youre doing some service for the community, but in reality youre just being vindictive

I dunno op….sure abusive stuff is not wanted, such as swearing, racial abuse etc BUT there are quite a few people who are very thin-skinned.
If I am playing one of my bunker toons, and I see 1 or 2 players on enemy team are quite deadly/smart/aware I’ll start trolling them-HARD. Hopefully they get mad enough to come and “shut that noob up” whilst they are running around trying to do that for 2-3 mins the rest of my team then has a numerical advantage and can cap faster. Other times they start a chat war with me, typing away doing nothing constructive….you have more weapons than skills 1-8
You’d be surprised how people’s egos and fragile sensibilities cost them games.

Tellah.8073:

Fenrir.5493:

Since i cant hit through internet connection every time someone does this i report them (right click on the character name, then report, its so easy)

Yes, you pretend that youre doing some service for the community, but in reality youre just being vindictive

I didnt pretend anything i was pretty clear.

Keep calm and burst/bunker/support/roam/carry on.

didn’t bother reading all the post, mainly those from certain ppl who feel they are entitled to be trash talkers. When considering trash talkers, just consider the source. one begets the other. nothing we can do about that

Well I guess some people’s right to sound stupid is trumped by other’s wittle feewings getting hurt.

Don’t like trash talk? Block player. Reporting them is just passive aggressive and makes you a tattle tale child.

there is 2 things to be said here:

first off, if a team loses 100-500 it is in 99% of the cases not the fault of a single player. sometimes the matchmaking system is cruel and will put a group of people all below rank 20 up against a group of rank 40+s. those things happen and you just have to get over it. nobody has a 100% win rate. in fact, you are supposed to lose 50% of your matches, unless you are playing with an extremely good premade team. if people lose, they tend to find a scapegoat, and that scapegoat is obviously never themselves. it is an awful human habit but sadly you can’t really do anything about it. you just have to “learn to lose”.

the second thing is the “verbal abuse”, be it from your own team or from your opponents. i personally report almost anyone who insults me verbally. freedom of speech and all that is fine and good, but it stops right there were you limit the freedom of others, by invading their personal space and call them names. i will personally never understand how people who are obviously good at the game (read: better than you, who is not as experienced) can insult others and feel good about that. i am rank 37 now (which isn’t even really high) and if i have learned one thing from the many years that i have played various competitive games, it is humility. everyone has been a newbie at some point, there is nothing wrong with it, it is a natural process, and only by making mistakes and reflecting about those mistakes and learning from them, can a person become a better player. people who insult others are toxic to the community, they are the reason that people lose interest in pvp and therefore less people play it over time. if everyone would offer constructive help instead of insulting others, not only would that motivate the less experienced players to play more and improve, it would also make the entire atmosphere in the pvp environment more convenient.

Play a good game with depth of skill, players there learn some humility, community will be less hostile.

gw2 … gives people kills for simple easily repeated behavior. the sort of person drawn to that …

aydenunited.5729:

Poxxia.1547:

“Big boys” … ?
What you really are saying is: Might is right. If you can’t see exactly how wrong that is, I can’t help you.

Actually, that’s part of the delusion of this… there’s no might involved, there’s no “tough guy” or “big boys” it’s just gamers that talk trash and are insulting and inconsiderate, and those that are considerate and polite.

The whole real world thing weeds this out, because nobody talks to each other like that in the real world, and there’s a reason for it. MIGHT (i.e. consequences… losing your job, losing your friends, getting your face smashed in, etc.)

The problem here is that there is a line down the middle, and everyone’s middle is different. I really don’t mind a little trash talking, but when it’s repetitive, personally insulting, and/or people gang up on one other person, I have no tolerance for that, in the real world OR video games.

Tough has nothing to do with it, and there’s no point even bringing up the word in a game or over an internet forum, anybody can be tough over text.

In any sense, as others have said…. when in doubt, report it. The mods don’t ban every single person reported, but you put the decision in their hands, where it belongs in this case. It’s actually one of the better aspects of Anet’s business model, they are quite good at supporting their community and weeding out griefers. Anyone around at game launch will be quite familiar with this notion.

Uhm … I am not sure, why you make it a response to me? Or is it a comment?
Anyway, I completely agree with the RL-aspect, but I find the “might”-problematic to be a lot more complicated (both in philosophical and psychological terms). I don’t think that the elaboration is for this forum though.
/cheers

Was more just adding to what you said, Poxxia. My response was more aimed at people who actually think it’s being “tough” to turn the other cheek when you’re being called a bundle of twigs and sticks in repeatedly in the middle of a match.

Is this maybe more of a problem on North American servers? Having been in-game nearly every day since launch I have been subject to one comment that I’d describe as rude or abusive. None of my friends and very few in my Guild have experienced this type of behaviour either. Maybe Desolation is a friendlier server than others? I don’t know.

I do remember that “The Lord of the Rings Online” had separate forums for European and American players and that the atmosphere, attitudes and mood of the two were completely different. In fact as I recall, many American players joined the European forums as it was generally a far more civil place.

But back on topic – why does anyone care what a random stranger says to them in a game? Block them and forget about it.

The issue seems to be much rarer than in other games.

To answer the question – the hard truth is it crosses the line as soon as anyone takes it personally. Since you have no idea who is sitting behind those other keyboards, it’s impossible to know exactly where that line is.

Even though it doesnt really bother me, personally, if someone wont shut up with the insults or goes too far, I report them. In order to be competitive, PvP needs to feel open to anyone – even those who may be more sensitive to this kind of criticism. The whiny critics who wont shut up about “you guys suck”, “why did you go there?”, etc only turn people off of PvP, which isnt good for any of us.

Anything that pushes them out of this aspect of the game isnt good for the competitive nature of the game.

It’s also worth noting – most of the time, the people kittening in map chat or putting people down are usually the ones at the bottom of the charts when the match is over – Im guessing from spending too much time worrying about other people and not enough about themselves.

Blaeys.3102:

most of the time, the people kittening in map chat or putting people down are usually the ones at the bottom of the charts when the match is over – Im guessing from spending too much time worrying about other people and not enough about themselves.

I had to agree with your comment till you wrote this section. Sadly I have to disagree. The ppl that are on the bottom are mostly the ppl that care about conquest (defending nodes /keeping points neutral against 2 or more ppl). The rest is just zerging around doing some points, letting opponents freecaps and things like this.

IMO, it goes something like this:

Trash Talk: “Wow, you’re a bad.” / “Get wrecked scrub hurrr” and they’re done. Go seek your revenge if necessary.

Verbal Abuse: Someone so mad / crazy that they are PMing and harassing you constantly. Blocking is an option, but I don’t think that kind of behavior should need to be tolerated.

For me it’s a time issue, not exactly what they’re saying. Still, I’ve only reported someone once because they were literally stalking me everywhere, I can’t even remember what upset the guy so bad. I blocked him after being slightly amused, then somewhat disturbed when they actually got on a different account to harass me more a day later. There are some wackos out there..

In competitive game play, you have to expect a certain degree of trash talk and frustration, especially when you can’t see the human being behind the computer, but I’ve definitely seen it taken too far. Calling someone bad during a match is one thing, continuing to whisper them about it after it’s done is another. When in doubt, just report and ignore, Anet will handle it if they feel it’s needed.

You should be happy getting reported is the worst thing that could happen to you in-game. Go ahead and tell your co-worker or teammate to “go die in a fire” next time they make a mistake and you’ll see just how much worse real life consequences can be.

Exactly right, Ayden. I was at PAX a couple of years ago and a couple of foul mouthed kids jumped the queue in front of me. I had been waiting patiently in line for a panel discussion for nearly an hour. I laid into them and told them to get the hell out of line. The trash talk dried up, they turned red, and got out of line. This is what happens to video game trash talkers who step into the real world and think they can pull the same crap. Balkan has it backwards. It’s the in-game trash talkers who are terrible.

Let us suppose the trash talk is not a violation of the code of conduct. A question then would be. Is it the right thing to do? Some also ask, who does it hurt. imo it hurts the person doing it more so than the recipient. Demonstrating a level of class they will most likely never be able to quit the sphere in which they were brought up in. Of course we can only hope it is a level of insecurity or immaturity in which they will out grow. And thereby prosper as an adult. If they are already an adult what more can we do but pity them. Those of us who feel they who violate the code of conduct in this regard must have a thick skin, continue to push forward and make the s/t/pvp community enjoyable for those who wish to venture into this area of the game.

Shrug, it’s always the kittenters who run at the mouth anyway. Who cares what they say? You don’t see too many top players talking trash, and anyone who blames their team for their losses is just bad.

IIvIIozzie.9250:

I dunno, Personally I disagree with reporting people for verbal abuse. I think people should be entitled to their freedom of speech as well as their freedom to ignore it. Simply block the players so you no longer see their messages.

There is freedom of speech, but there is also verbal abuse. facepalm you are saying you support whatever people say because of their “freedom of speech”

Didn’t league of legends kick out one of their top players for being an kitten on the basis that they didn’t want someone like that representing their game?

Also anyone sponsored is never openly offensive.

So in the case of trash talk isn’t it just a display of lack of competitive growth? I tend to see a lot more humble pro players than I do trash talky semi above average players.

I’ve noticed that pretty much all of the trashtalkers are those who play the worst.
Those who can actually play well stay very humble or keep their thoughts and tongues to themselves.

When I hotjoin, I usually target the loudmouth and I deliberately do my best to be on the opposite team to him and always focus him, it doesn’t matter who he talks smack about. I just find that kind of behaviour annoying and it’s fun to make them rage even more. The ensuing ragequits are hilarious and responding with love and care to angry whispers is very satifying. I don’t usually bother with reporting unless it gets borderline annoying.

That said, I don’t usually see many trashtalkers in tournas. Maybe one or two bad apples, but those are usually the players who need more practice and have no place in tournaments yet. Competitive environment is much more mature and good games are always appreciated. In my competitive past when I used to play UT99 and Wolf:ET extensively trashtalk was pretty much non-existant. Of course there were some nice rivalry and some rubbing between some teams, but in the end, the attitude of “GG&HF” was the most important. It seems that for some people “my mother’s nightly activities” = comptetive gaming now. That’s pretty much the “pub server” attitude and isn’t related to anything competitive at all.

But…but, but he can go to a bar. Don’t mess up with him!