Guild Wars 2

Because if I don’t the other team will. So many times I’ve had to log out and log back in with my decap just to counter another decapper.

This is just FYI for those who wonder why people play these builds. It’s the prisoner’s dilemma. Logical people making logical decisions.

Seems like odd logic. A decapper fighting a decapper. Wouldn’t one of them be a defender?

and yes, just joking around

style.6173:

Seems like odd logic. A decapper fighting a decapper. Wouldn’t one of them be a defender?

and yes, just joking around

As in…do to them what they’re doing to us. Their close point is usually undefended or has just one person/bunker so they’re able to focus all their efforts on mid and far with minimal investment into their close.

Playing decap allows me to change that balance. And sometimes I need to play decap to easily and quickly push an existing decapper of my capped close.

Edit: This is why every bunker needs to have huge stability uptime. I’ve seen rangers offering to defend close when they can’t hold out against a decapper.

Not really, desperate people tend to make desperate decisions.
It’s like following this mentality: “If they cheat why shouldn’t I do this?”… and if you think about it, that’s the logic, the way of thinking process that makes real wars keep exhisting.
Now in a PVP environment people aren’t so desperate like in a real context, but competition moves most kind of people really close to it.

Simply…
…It’s the way stupid people deal with the world.

There’s also another solution : not play soloQ (or teamQ).

I can already hear “but but but what about my competitive pvp and my awesome and totally deserved victories?”. It’s not competitive, it’s a race to who’s playing the most op spec.

Yes, yes, there is a bit of strategy involved. The gameplay is braindead, unrewarding and boring though, so you get your rewards via victories…which are meaningless.

Luke.4562:

Not really, desperate people tend to make desperate decisions.
It’s like following this mentality: “If they cheat why shouldn’t I do this?”… and if you think about it, that’s the logic, the way of thinking process that makes real wars keep exhisting.
Now in a PVP environment people aren’t so desperate like in a real context, but competition moves most kind of people really close to it.

Simply…
…It’s the way stupid people deal with the world.

It’s stupid only if a better way exists to reach the required goals. Since I play PvP to win and not just for the gameplay or to have fun, this is the most logical way to do so no?

If you think it’s stupid, perhaps you have a better solution? I’m willing to listen to a more rational choice.

Luke.4562:

Not really, desperate people tend to make desperate decisions.
It’s like following this mentality: “If they cheat why shouldn’t I do this?”… and if you think about it, that’s the logic, the way of thinking process that makes real wars keep exhisting.
Now in a PVP environment people aren’t so desperate like in a real context, but competition moves most kind of people really close to it.

Simply…
…It’s the way stupid people deal with the world.

Unfortunately it’s the way that most players in Team Q have been dealing with things. I get into so many games vs multiple warriors and decap engis that it’s discouraging to come in with a build you actually would like to play rather than a build you feel you have to play in order to be a bigger benefit for your team against those are rolling this way.

The state of current meta builds isn’t simply a case of “if they cheat, I should too”, it’s turning into a case of “if I don’t roll similar builds, my team is going to be in trouble”. Until these kinds of builds are better balanced, there’s very little on offer to build diversity .

bhagwad.4281:

It’s stupid only if a better way exists to reach the required goals. Since I play PvP to win and not just for the gameplay or to have fun, this is the most logical way to do so no?

If you think it’s stupid, perhaps you have a better solution? I’m willing to listen to a more rational choice.

With that purpose in mind, playing decap engi is not stupid. Some might question the will to win in a game regardless of fun or gameplay, though…that could very well be qualified as stupid, it is at the very least the sign of a neurotic behaviour.

If you’re looking for a rational solution, I offered one a few posts back.

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Not really, desperate people tend to make desperate decisions.
It’s like following this mentality: “If they cheat why shouldn’t I do this?”… and if you think about it, that’s the logic, the way of thinking process that makes real wars keep exhisting.
But it’s not cheating….it’s a specific build.

Liewec.2896:

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Heh, I’m not a PW thief, in fact I find those guys absolutely hilarious, not to mention how quickly they drop. PW is the new HS spam and equally as skilless – most of these clowns are just spamming it in the air hoping they hit something.

That said, is it them ruining the game or the game mechanics in place that are ruining it? Usually in other games when there’s some ‘win button’ build, something is quickly done about it, this game, not so much.

Static.9841:

Liewec.2896:

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Heh, I’m not a PW thief, in fact I find those guys absolutely hilarious, not to mention how quickly they drop. PW is the new HS spam and equally as skilless – most of these clowns are just spamming it in the air hoping they hit something.

That said, is it them ruining the game or the game mechanics in place that are ruining it? Usually in other games when there’s some ‘win button’ build, something is quickly done about it, this game, not so much.

Given that they are the ones choosing to play those builds, they are as much responsible as ArenaNet is.

I love how you guys are saying that these people have no skill yet you complain here because they owned you? Responsible? I am responsible for a legit build in the game and mechanics in the game? LOL sir!!

Uhtameit.2413:

Static.9841:

Liewec.2896:

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Heh, I’m not a PW thief, in fact I find those guys absolutely hilarious, not to mention how quickly they drop. PW is the new HS spam and equally as skilless – most of these clowns are just spamming it in the air hoping they hit something.

That said, is it them ruining the game or the game mechanics in place that are ruining it? Usually in other games when there’s some ‘win button’ build, something is quickly done about it, this game, not so much.

Given that they are the ones choosing to play those builds, they are as much responsible as ArenaNet is.

You’re going to get this with any fotm build though, look at how many fear bombing necros suddenly appeared way back before that was ‘adjusted’.

Some players will leap on it for bandwagoning and easy wins, others end up falling into out of sheer frustration.

DanzelOPP.5068:

I love how you guys are saying that these people have no skill yet you complain here because they owned you? Responsible? I am responsible for a legit build in the game and mechanics in the game? LOL sir!!

Who said we got owned? I don’t remember typing that anywhere. Pay attention to what’s being said. Reasons are being given as to why certain players might end up electing to use these builds and why they are so abundant.

They are abundant because they are effective. And yes people are only complaining because of that fact. Decap engie has been here for awhile it’s just people didn’t realize how effective they could be in an unorganized setting. Why else would they come here and complain if a decap per hadn’t rocked their world?

@bhagwad.4281
Simply put, to play a so broken game to win for self satisfaction is debatable enough.

If you just want to play to win there’s the jungle’s rule, easy for everyone to understand: “faceroll or be facerolled, cheat or be cheated”. No problems to think about, no difficulty, just get a meta build, adapt quick to the pathetic environment and achieve your victory.

What instead I like to think often is to stand out of the mass, no need to play like the sheep pack, fight hard and find another way to reach your objective. More hard, more challenging and more satisfying.

The rational choice is to find a better game or spend your focus into something more valuable than experience in a competitive PVP environment to get some self satisfaction.
Well, people focused on games only will get this later in their lives.

Useless saying, but i’ll do it anyway, most of the people chose ALWAYS the easiest way.

DanzelOPP.5068:

They are abundant because they are effective. And yes people are only complaining because of that fact. Decap engie has been here for awhile it’s just people didn’t realize how effective they could be in an unorganized setting. Why else would they come here and complain if a decap per hadn’t rocked their world?

Which is pretty much what I said? People roll with them because that’s currently the strongest build, when so many people are using it others are going to end up following suit because they feel they have to in order to have a chance against them.

The thread is called “why I play decap engi” not “waaahhhh so many decap engis”. Please.

You have to play what the meta gives you. If you Tpvp and don’t play the meta you will probably hold your team back. Decap engie is so wide spread because its a troll build and solo q is the new hot join. I would recommend going solo in team q.

DanzelOPP.5068:

But it’s not cheating….it’s a specific build.

No indeed, he was making an analogy. That build is pretty much abusing AR to be an unstoppable brainless cc machine in the service of conquest, it’s no less annoying than a cheat.

DanzelOPP.5068:

You have to play what the meta gives you. If you Tpvp and don’t play the meta you will probably hold your team back. Decap engie is so wide spread because its a troll build and solo q is the new hot join. I would recommend going solo in team q.

Or you can stop playing soloQ and teamQ when the meta is terrible, you know.

Static.9841:

Uhtameit.2413:

Given that they are the ones choosing to play those builds, they are as much responsible as ArenaNet is.

You’re going to get this with any fotm build though, look at how many fear bombing necros suddenly appeared way back before that was ‘adjusted’.

Some players will leap on it for bandwagoning and easy wins, others end up falling into out of sheer frustration.

Yes, there is nonetheless a time where they consciously choose to play it. Whether it’s out of frustration or just to win, there is a part of responsability involved when you choose something.

The only time I played something OP was when elementalist was OP, and even then I used Ether Renewal so there was room for counterplay. Even so, it was my choice to keep playing it and thus I was responsible for it.

bhagwad.4281:

Because if I don’t the other team will. So many times I’ve had to log out and log back in with my decap just to counter another decapper.

This is just FYI for those who wonder why people play these builds. It’s the prisoner’s dilemma. Logical people making logical decisions.

I laugh when people complain about builds like these.

Do people not realize that 5v5 conquest mode pvp is not meant for 1v1?

And people need to actually strategize?

It’s sad how many people don’t.

You aren’t playing a strong build like hambow or dhuumfire necro.

You are playing a broken build which aims to specifically take advantage of the fact that more often than not a solo queue roster won’t have the right builds/classes to counter your miserable spec.

Uhtameit.2413:

DanzelOPP.5068:

You have to play what the meta gives you. If you Tpvp and don’t play the meta you will probably hold your team back. Decap engie is so wide spread because its a troll build and solo q is the new hot join. I would recommend going solo in team q.

Or you can stop playing soloQ and teamQ when the meta is terrible, you know.

This isn’t a solution. Why should anyone have to stop playing any game mode they enjoy?

Yes, there is nonetheless a time where they consciously choose to play it. Whether it’s out of frustration or just to win, there is a part of responsability involved when you choose something.

The only time I played something OP was when elementalist was OP, and even then I used Ether Renewal so there was room for counterplay. Even so, it was my choice to keep playing it and thus I was responsible for it.

I don’t think it’s quite as black and white as that. If a superior build is available, do you really expect people not to use it? There is no such thing in a video game as honour, as much as you may have your own personal values and opinions on why you won’t use a meta build (I don’t either btw because I find my build a lot more fun, not out of a sense of honour or good values), the majority of the playerbase will not share you opinion which is quite heavily reflected in what you will encounter in tPvP – I can enter a game, see the opposing team (and in fact even my own if I’m rolling solo) and know already what builds people are going to be using.

The only thing that will fix this is balance, expecting players to ignore legitimate builds will see you waiting until you’re a bleached skeleton in the desert – it’s simply not going to happen. We cannot change the balance of the game, only the developers can do that. Players have given a lot of constructive feedback on how to fix some of these builds in order to promote more diversity in the game, this has been happening for a long time and not a lot has been done about it. Developers are “aware” but no change, maybe we’ll see some on April 15th, but the ball is solidly in their court.

Static.9841:

This isn’t a solution. Why should anyone have to stop playing any game mode they enjoy?

Indeed, it’s not. It’s just the best I found : hotjoin, yay.

Static.9841:

I don’t think it’s quite as black and white as that. If a superior build is available, do you really expect people not to use it? There is no such thing in a video game as honour, as much as you may have your own personal values and opinions on why you won’t use a meta build (I don’t either btw because I find my build a lot more fun, not out of a sense of honour or good values), the majority of the playerbase will not share you opinion which is quite heavily reflected in what you will encounter in tPvP – I can enter a game, see the opposing team (and in fact even my own if I’m rolling solo) and know already what builds people are going to be using.

No indeed, it’s not black and white and you aren’t forced to play fairly. I just wish more people would play the game for the gameplay instead of playing to win…we wouldn’t see so many hambows and decap engis then. I also don’t expect them to not play the more powerful and possibly more boring build…they are humans.

Let me paraphrase what some people say: "The game should be based on playing like this (which they personally find to be fun), not like that (using a different build and play style that ArenaNet designed).

Silentshoes.1805:

Let me paraphrase what some people say: "The game should be based on playing like this (which they personally find to be fun), not like that (using a different build and play style that ArenaNet designed).

The players using meta builds don’t justify it by telling they find the build fun, they say they choose to play it because they want to win.

If you find decap engi or hambow warrior fun, well, have your fun…

It’s as if I bring a gun to a knife fight and win, and the other guy says, that’s cheating! You are only supposed to use knives! I refuse to use a gun! You have no right to use a gun and win! You cheat!"

(Recalling the market scene and fight in an old Indiana Jones movie from the 80s).

Silentshoes.1805:

It’s as if I bring a gun to a knife fight and win, and the other guy says, that’s cheating! You are only supposed to use knives! I refuse to use a gun! You have no right to use a gun and win! You cheat!"

(Recalling the market scene and fight in an old Indiana Jones movie from the 80s).

You have to admit it’d be a bit less frustrating to play if everyone valued a good ol’ knife.

What I got from uhtameit….don’t run meta builds run what you want to and lose. Or don’t pvp at all. Thanks for the advice

I think a main weakness of the GW2 design is that it was designed for organized teams who work together and train together to follow a strategy and use voice communications. (In other words, eSports).

But most players don’t have that kind of situation available to them, and so they must join random groups and they have to choose a build that does not depend on the help of others, nor depend on others following a strategy.

Ironically OP and people like him play decap engi for their reasons. By extension, him playing decap engi could be referenced in a thread called “Why I play ESO/Wildstar”. Too much cheese killed this game. Best news ever = new MMOs putting gw2 under pressure to actually add content. They started with the feature patch but unless they keep things coming it is over for gw2 imo.

Yeah no offense ricky but you’ve been saying that since you began posting.

The funniest thing about OP is that he was one of the biggest complainers about the change to reduce Dragon rank requirement. It’s because of people who cheese in solo que with decap engi that these ranks are meaningless, not any anet change.

DanzelOPP.5068:

What I got from uhtameit….don’t run meta builds run what you want to and lose. Or don’t pvp at all. Thanks for the advice

There still are fun builds that are viable and not meta. Condition engi, for instance. Also I suggested not to play SoloQ/TeamQ : you are aware that HotJoin exists, right?

Once again your wrong. Try might be fun but if you are playing at a highe level you can’t play a build because its fun, you play what gives you the best chance of winning. I wish every class was viable and had its role but that’s not the way it is right now.
I would hardly call hot join pvp.

DanzelOPP.5068:

Once again your wrong. Try might be fun but if you are playing at a highe level you can’t play a build because its fun, you play what gives you the best chance of winning. I wish every class was viable and had its role but that’s not the way it is right now.
I would hardly call hot join pvp.

It’s player vs player. I fear hotjoin fits that description. And “high level”? as if there was some kind of competitive scene in gw2 pvp…don’t make me laugh xD

sendmark.4731:

The funniest thing about OP is that he was one of the biggest complainers about the change to reduce Dragon rank requirement. It’s because of people who cheese in solo que with decap engi that these ranks are meaningless, not any anet change.

The “No true scotsman fallacy”.

1) You’re not a true PvP player if you go hotjoin
2) You’re not a true PvP player if you skyhammered
3) You’re not a true PvP player if you play decap engi
4) You’re not a true PvP player if hambow/whatever

People just get to make up their own classifications and feel good about them.

bhagwad.4281:

The “No true scotsman fallacy”.

1) You’re not a true PvP player if you go hotjoin
2) You’re not a true PvP player if you skyhammered
3) You’re not a true PvP player if you play decap engi
4) You’re not a true PvP player if hambow/whatever

People just get to make up their own classifications and feel good about them.

Nice straw man.

It’s not about who is a ‘true pvp player’, it’s about whether largely exclusive rewards are merited when they are best earned through antisocial means which actively harm the game- i.e. playing a broken build which ruins the fun of other players. Amusing that you seem to think there’s no issue in cheesing to win, and also think that this cheesing merits maintaining an exclusive reward system.

Static.9841:

Liewec.2896:

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Heh, I’m not a PW thief, in fact I find those guys absolutely hilarious, not to mention how quickly they drop. PW is the new HS spam and equally as skilless – most of these clowns are just spamming it in the air hoping they hit something.

That said, is it them ruining the game or the game mechanics in place that are ruining it? Usually in other games when there’s some ‘win button’ build, something is quickly done about it, this game, not so much.

I’ve been a pw build since January when everyone would laugh at you using PW for being the weakest skill in the weapon setups. It’s just sad that one small change that’s actually still weaker than the original version, could change the feeling of a worthless attack to a skilless attack.

That being said, swinging in thin air sometimes have purpose. For example if you have 2s left on your healing skill, wasting initiative for a 2s breather can save your life.

But agreed , spamming PW isn’t the way to play S/P. Those people die easily with well timed attacks. More high-end thieves will know when to use pw besides the other 4 skills which all have their purposes.

sendmark.4731:

bhagwad.4281:

The “No true scotsman fallacy”.

1) You’re not a true PvP player if you go hotjoin
2) You’re not a true PvP player if you skyhammered
3) You’re not a true PvP player if you play decap engi
4) You’re not a true PvP player if hambow/whatever

People just get to make up their own classifications and feel good about them.

Nice straw man.

It’s not about who is a ‘true pvp player’, it’s about whether largely exclusive rewards are merited when they are best earned through antisocial means which actively harm the game- i.e. playing a broken build which ruins the fun of other players. Amusing that you seem to think there’s no issue in cheesing to win, and also think that this cheesing merits maintaining an exclusive reward system.

Oh, “anti social” means I see. And I suppose you get to decide that “anti social” means are not “worthy” huh? Besides, this is PvP. Player verses player. If you have sympathy for your opponents you may be in the wrong game.

bhagwad.4281:

Oh, “anti social” means I see. And I suppose you get to decide that “anti social” means are not “worthy” huh? Besides, this is PvP. Player verses player. If you have sympathy for your opponents you may be in the wrong game.

Yeah because this isn’t a game played for fun, it’s a WAR for pride and profit right? There’s no friendly competition, there’s no honest sportsmanship, just cheese your way to successs and demand to be exclusively rewarded for it.

Have you considered a career in investment banking?

For me playing smt in soloq only becouse its efective and helps in win is just not fun. What u get from wining match? Nothing. Why u bought this game? To be forced to play definite build/class? Everyone makes thier own decisions , u want to win so u play decap engi , i want to have fun and i play staff ele. I bought this game becouse i thought it will reach high competetive level but atm its not even close to it/ I dont see any point in wining matches , to be high in ledder etc. There will be always smt that is stronger , some build , some class , its normal. Smt like perfect balance dont exist. Ppl like to win thats thier nature , ppl will always choose best and the easiest option. I play staff ele , i am noob , never playied ele , i am geting killed by everything :P but still i am having fun. U know how exited i am when i actualy kill for example thief in 1v1?

NORMALLY you need people abusing builds such as decap engi, because if nobody points out how OP it is then it won’t get fixed.

but in GW2’s case it takes forever and a day to get fixed so it’s just annoying as kitten for a long time.

sendmark.4731:

bhagwad.4281:

Oh, “anti social” means I see. And I suppose you get to decide that “anti social” means are not “worthy” huh? Besides, this is PvP. Player verses player. If you have sympathy for your opponents you may be in the wrong game.

Yeah because this isn’t a game played for fun, it’s a WAR for pride and profit right? There’s no friendly competition, there’s no honest sportsmanship, just cheese your way to successs and demand to be exclusively rewarded for it.

Have you considered a career in investment banking?

Pride, certainly. People have different motivations for playing. And your holier than thou attitude of the motivations people “should” have for playing are well…let’s just say it’s your opinion and leave it at that ok?

It’s not your job (or anyone else’s) to determine the “motivation” for play. Set goals, and reward their achievement. That’s it. You go ahead and have whatever motivation you personally want. No one is stopping you.

If you don’t actually cap the point within 45 seconds, then the defender has done their job. :P

No, the only reason you play decap engineer is because you are too incapable to suck it up and be a man.

I love people that play non meta builds <3 thanks for making pvp a better place!

why i never play solo queue: skyhammer

RaZaC.1963:

No, the only reason you play decap engineer is because you are too incapable to suck it up and be a man.

I love people that play non meta builds <3 thanks for making pvp a better place!

Exacly , i stoped playing condi necro in soloq some time ago , now only power necro or my pro celestial staff ele

I dont see any fun playing pw thief and spam 3 or condi necro and spam 1 or decap engi and spam every cc i have.

Guys try to play staff ele , there is nothing there u can actualy spam , there is so many funny skill rotation :P

Sounds like the first-person-shooter, twitchy Street-Fighter guys like glass and power builds.

MMO people often like conditions and more indirect pew-pew.

It’s a theory.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Static.9841:

Liewec.2896:

i always wondered how you hambows, PW thieves and decap engis would attempt to justify ruining the game for everyone else with your low risk/high reward builds.

Heh, I’m not a PW thief, in fact I find those guys absolutely hilarious, not to mention how quickly they drop. PW is the new HS spam and equally as skilless – most of these clowns are just spamming it in the air hoping they hit something.

That said, is it them ruining the game or the game mechanics in place that are ruining it? Usually in other games when there’s some ‘win button’ build, something is quickly done about it, this game, not so much.

I’ve been a pw build since January when everyone would laugh at you using PW for being the weakest skill in the weapon setups. It’s just sad that one small change that’s actually still weaker than the original version, could change the feeling of a worthless attack to a skilless attack.

That being said, swinging in thin air sometimes have purpose. For example if you have 2s left on your healing skill, wasting initiative for a 2s breather can save your life.

But agreed , spamming PW isn’t the way to play S/P. Those people die easily with well timed attacks. More high-end thieves will know when to use pw besides the other 4 skills which all have their purposes.

I’ve seen some use the swing in the air to soley be an evade, I have no doubt it’s viable. However, a huge amount of the time, I see them doing it because they think they’ll hit something. The sad thing is, I’ve rarely seen a decent PW thief who properly times and sets up their attack. I’ve played against a few good ones, but the huge influx of bandwagoners are horribly clueless.