Guild Wars 2

I think we need some real perspective on this.

Warriors actually can do quite well in 2v2 and 3v3 setting when using builds similar to what Schwahrheit is inferring. Their 1v1 is actually pretty good as well but there are hard counters they will run into. Their 4v4 and 5v5 viability actually tends to be less than a GS/Axe warrior even though it looks like on paper these builds bring better group utility. This stems from the frame a warrior brings having a number of holes in it that become more prominent in a larger fight, limiting how long they can fight for and how much mileage they get from their better supportive aspects. A warrior just isn’t a risky target to focus, damage on them tends to stick even if they are spec’d defensively allowing them to be a great target to swap to. So for larger fights its best to front load their effects so you can actually get the full mileage out of that position.

Fourth.1567:

I think we need some real perspective on this.

Warriors actually can do quite well in 2v2 and 3v3 setting when using builds similar to what Schwahrheit is inferring. Their 1v1 is actually pretty good as well but there are hard counters they will run into. Their 4v4 and 5v5 viability actually tends to be less than a GS/Axe warrior even though it looks like on paper these builds bring better group utility. This stems from the frame a warrior brings having a number of holes in it that become more prominent in a larger fight, limiting how long they can fight for and how much mileage they get from their better supportive aspects. A warrior just isn’t a risky target to focus, damage on them tends to stick even if they are spec’d defensively allowing them to be a great target to swap to. So for larger fights its best to front load their effects so you can actually get the full mileage out of that position.

Yep, to maximize effectiveness right now, all you can do is run glass cannon and do as much damage as possible in as little time as possible. With no real defense, you’re going to go down regardless, so there is little point in speccing for any sort of prolonged survivability, especially since it will almost always decrease your damage.

So that leads you to think, “well why not choose a class with comparative damage, but much more survivability” and there goes the warrior out of the window. Whether its straight up defense, or high mobility and the ability to easily reset the fight, other classes simply trump the warrior in terms of survivability.

bulls is not a hit detection issue its a pathing issue.
on the issue, front loading your burst is bad too in most situations.
You should never initiate a fight with a war. that is just asking to die. When is last time in a team fight, the thief was the first to show up.
5v5 you cannot stay in the middle of the fight and expect to live. this is the difference between sustain and burst. you must roll in and out of the fight.
run dodge sigils. dodge=much less damage to you
My PoV, when our team comes into a team fight, I am always the first target. Taking pressure off your team allows your team to do their job better. So your getting focused, kite your attackers through your teammates attacks. Deals pressure while you are trying to relieve your own pressure. Whirlwind attacks is one of the best skills in the game, and probably the most important reason to carry the gs outside of raw cleave ability.

War mobility is like 4th. Ele thief engi mes(if you count portals)

Comparable damage, well that is how you define it. Because you can say other classes have comparable damage, but they are all glass specs. Outside of condi, war glass spec should survive the longest.

I think some people keep nailing it right on the head… ANet has said since launch warrior is exactly where they want it to be. That’s why every patch there are no changes to the warrior except spelling errors in tooltips. So if every other class does everything better they’re just going to get brought down. Who cares if it takes them 6 months it’s not like there is anything going on in the mists anyway.

As far as all their weapon sets I’ve said over and over in this thread and I’ll continue to say it. GS offers the least versatility other than BC, frenzy, HB and a bit of mobility. If you only have one attack the enemy will always outplay you. Axe/mace and hammer is by far my favorite setup that offers the most control and options. Personally I never run with bulls charge on my bar. But if you added that to axe/mace and hammer. That’s almost 10 seconds of stun/knockdown. I’ll take that over a frenzy HB burst any day.

I don’t know why we’re all ignoring the elephant in the room that more than half the classes in this game are OP and the game is no where near ready for competitive play. There is no reason to buff the warrior when everything is working fine. Other classes with endless mobility options need to be brought down to having escapes but not endless escapes.

Instead of putting the fire to the developer to make a really competitive game everyone is in here arguing over broken classes and game imbalance.

Wreckdum.8367:

I think some people keep nailing it right on the head… ANet has said since launch warrior is exactly where they want it to be. That’s why every patch there are no changes to the warrior except spelling errors in tooltips. So if every other class does everything better they’re just going to get brought down. Who cares if it takes them 6 months it’s not like there is anything going on in the mists anyway.

As far as all their weapon sets I’ve said over and over in this thread and I’ll continue to say it. GS offers the least versatility other than BC, frenzy, HB and a bit of mobility. If you only have one attack the enemy will always outplay you. Axe/mace and hammer is by far my favorite setup that offers the most control and options. Personally I never run with bulls charge on my bar. But if you added that to axe/mace and hammer. That’s almost 10 seconds of stun/knockdown. I’ll take that over a frenzy HB burst any day.

I don’t know why we’re all ignoring the elephant in the room that more than half the classes in this game are OP and the game is no where near ready for competitive play. There is no reason to buff the warrior when everything is working fine. Other classes with endless mobility options need to be brought down to having escapes but not endless escapes.

Instead of putting the fire to the developer to make a really competitive game everyone is in here arguing over broken classes and game imbalance.

I disagree about the GS being the least useful. Every greatsword skill is extremely useful, and i think the greatsword is probably the best weapon in the game in terms of skills. It is probably one of the if not the most versatile weapons in the game.

1. Autoattack is very strong and reasonably fast, can crit for 2k+ on regular swings.
2. 100b
3. Whirlwind, one of the better skills in the game, can hit for 8k+ on crits, can be used for mobility, and does aoe damage; also short cooldown.
4. Bladetrail is 900 range, gives basically a 5 second cripple, AND can hit the target twice for around 2k+ per.
5. Rush is a 1200 range fast moving attack that can be used for mobility and can also hit for 4k+ damage.

Really, to me, the other weapons are an absolute joke in comparison, and i think that might be one of the reasons why the only viable warrior temp is 100b atm. There is no reason not to use the greatsword when it has skills like that.

Sand Beagle.9867:

I disagree about the GS being the least useful. Every greatsword skill is extremely useful, and i think the greatsword is probably the best weapon in the game in terms of skills. It is probably one of the if not the most versatile weapons in the game.

1. Autoattack is very strong and reasonably fast, can crit for 2k+ on regular swings.
2. 100b
3. Whirlwind, one of the better skills in the game, can hit for 8k+ on crits, can be used for mobility, and does aoe damage; also short cooldown.
4. Bladetrail is 900 range, gives basically a 5 second cripple, AND can hit the target twice for around 2k+ per.
5. Rush is a 1200 range fast moving attack that can be used for mobility and can also hit for 4k+ damage.

Really, to me, the other weapons are an absolute joke in comparison, and i think that might be one of the reasons why the only viable warrior temp is 100b atm. There is no reason not to use the greatsword when it has skills like that.

Ok I did come on too strongly hating on the GS. What I meant was it offers DPS and a bit of mobility.

I prefer control. I get way more control from axe/mace and hammer than I could ever get out of anything the GS offers. Having a stun up pretty much 100% of the time I feel is way more useful than a instant kill on newbies every 60 seconds.

Nothing more satisfying than killing someone from full to dead while stunlocked for their entire health bar.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Rangers can’t burst.

You are absolutely terrible at Ranger if you truly believe this because it’s so wrong.

Wreckdum.8367:

I prefer control.

I do too, and I do actually get what you’re saying. However he does have a very strong point about the GS.

Ignore lolburstHBohmgerrd! and just look at the rest of the skillset.
Ok, the adrenaline ability is crap. Unless you use it to refill endurance (traited), but I’d still probably plan it out better to do that with the off-set weapon which has most likely a better adrenaline ability that sets up burst/pressure WHILE refilling endurance.

Whirlwind: Like he said, one of the best (if not THE best imo) abilities a warrior has. It’s our only “evades while moving/attacking” ability like other classes get. Useful for defense, for offense, for positioning, for mobility. It’s just the bees knees.

Bladetrail: When the pathing isn’t stupid it’s a great attack, hits for a decent amount, requires a bit of skill to get both hits to connect (positioning control) and applies a cripple. Plus the range is pretty decent on it. Truly the only bad thing about it is the pathing issue (thank ANet) which is fairly common for the warrior though…

Rush: Kind of like whirlwind minus the evade. Great for mobility either initiating, chasing, escaping and WHEN it connects it actually packs a solid punch. Once again though it’s plagued by terrible pathing issues.

Personally I still try to run Hammer over GS, mostly out of stubborness and style preference though. I’ve also tried for ages to run sword/x + longbow. Again out of stubborness and style preferences. In S/TPvP (frees only, my guildmates all left for planetside 2 months ago except my RL buddy and we stay here out of stubborness really) it’s… ok. In WvW it’s both better and worse than GS. Keys being Mobility, burst potential AND defense (free evade is nothing to sneeze at, along with super fast adrenaline gain for +endurance gain dumps via trait when possible).

Warrior baseline survivability is so low compared to other classes that the greatest survival tool we have at our disposal is mobility to… run away. Very ‘warrior’ like isn’t it? : / (also as the resident warrior-troll said cripples/slows just KILL warriors hard)

I disagree with you about nerfing other classes though. Why punish classes which are designed WELL and fun / viable by nerfing them down to humdrum status. Guard/Necro/Ele/Thief/Mesmer are all doing extremely well. Engi/Ranger/Warrior need love. Makes more sense to look at the THREE classes which need love than to nerf FOUR.

Alot of warrior issues come down to bad traits, poorly designed trees and some weapon issues (mace/hammer delay is too much tbh).
IMO Fast Hands and Adrenal Health should be baseline warrior mechanics. That alone would help immensely with warrior BASELINE survivability/utility.

P.S.
Warrior “tank/bunkers” are the worst in the game except maybe mesmer, but mesmer is so amazingly powerful all around that it really doesn’t matter if they can’t “bunker”.
Guards bunker hard
Ele’s bunker hard
Necros can bunker fairly hard
Rangers can bunker fairly hard
Engi’s can, depending on the player skill level, either bunker decent or OMFGBUNKERDEMONWON’TDIESOANNOYING!

On any class I’ve never done anything but pity a warrior ‘bunker’ as I rip him apart.

Oni.5429:

Hm.

We’ve ran warrior the past few days and we’ve beaten literally every single top team in EU atm, with dominant scores vs everyone but cn (2-1), it’s very strong when used correctly. A buff could easily push warrior over the top

As in my opinion your guild is atm the best guild out there, it’s more easy for you guys to get things work, which won’t work for other teams. I mean I saw you with magz once playing 4 warriors and 1 guard and you still won.

What I see when you compare a thief to a warrior is when the warrior is in down-state it’s easier to get him up. And when an opponent is in downstate it’s hard to get him up if the war goes on 100b /whirling. (faster and bit more dmg then shortbow of thief)

Warriors are the worst pvp class overall. I agree

just to reiterate, imho warriors are not bad, just players are lazy to find a new warrior meta.
as ranger prenerf atk speed = OP (balanced for ranger players)
after atk speed nerf = UP (balanced for NO-ranger players)
now it is quite usefull because someone found the way of the traps et simila.

To the person above me, sorry, but yes warriors are bad. Their biggest flaw is they just dont have the kind of options which other classes do. Of the top 4 classes (thief, elementalist, guardian, mesmer), 3 of them have numerous get out of jail free cards like stealth and the guardian has ridiculous defensive abilities. Warriors are just flat out awful. Not only that, but their animations are slow as heck. Guild wars 2 needs to learn a lesson from WOW and prioritize gameplay over animations. When you push a button, it feels good when something happens instantly, not .25 seconds later after the animation is done. Thats another subject though.

Braxxus.2904:

Shukran.4851:

just to reiterate, imho warriors are not bad, just players are lazy to find a new warrior meta.

Because absolutely noone has put forth any time or testing with:
Bunker builds: And found that they are poop
Hammer builds: And found out their weaknesses and limited use
Condi builds: LOL!
Ranged builds: LOL again
Balanced builds
Control based builds
etc

NOBODY has EVER tried ANY other build besides something revolving around GS+Something. You’re right, thank you for illuminating this travesty.

It’s not that they don’t put any effort into those builds. It’s that you rarely see any of those builds in a video played by the professionals..especially warrior condition builds. We don’t see many of those at all so much for variety of being viable in pvp without being carried. ya dig?

Brutalistik.6473:

Braxxus.2904:

Shukran.4851:

just to reiterate, imho warriors are not bad, just players are lazy to find a new warrior meta.

Because absolutely noone has put forth any time or testing with:
Bunker builds: And found that they are poop
Hammer builds: And found out their weaknesses and limited use
Condi builds: LOL!
Ranged builds: LOL again
Balanced builds
Control based builds
etc

NOBODY has EVER tried ANY other build besides something revolving around GS+Something. You’re right, thank you for illuminating this travesty.

It’s not that they don’t put any effort into those builds. It’s that you rarely see any of those builds in a video played by the professionals..especially warrior condition builds. We don’t see many of those at all so much for variety of being viable in pvp without being carried. ya dig?

Um, exactly…
The sarcasm in my post wasn’t obvious?
:(

Braxxus.2904:

Brutalistik.6473:

Braxxus.2904:

Shukran.4851:

just to reiterate, imho warriors are not bad, just players are lazy to find a new warrior meta.

Because absolutely noone has put forth any time or testing with:
Bunker builds: And found that they are poop
Hammer builds: And found out their weaknesses and limited use
Condi builds: LOL!
Ranged builds: LOL again
Balanced builds
Control based builds
etc

NOBODY has EVER tried ANY other build besides something revolving around GS+Something. You’re right, thank you for illuminating this travesty.

It’s not that they don’t put any effort into those builds. It’s that you rarely see any of those builds in a video played by the professionals..especially warrior condition builds. We don’t see many of those at all so much for variety of being viable in pvp without being carried. ya dig?

Um, exactly…
The sarcasm in my post wasn’t obvious?
:(

I had to put my two cents in it too even though Anet team is aware of the situation. I just want to see something get change for the good instead of the worst.

Brutalistik.6473:

Braxxus.2904:

Brutalistik.6473:

Braxxus.2904:

Shukran.4851:

just to reiterate, imho warriors are not bad, just players are lazy to find a new warrior meta.

Because absolutely noone has put forth any time or testing with:
Bunker builds: And found that they are poop
Hammer builds: And found out their weaknesses and limited use
Condi builds: LOL!
Ranged builds: LOL again
Balanced builds
Control based builds
etc

NOBODY has EVER tried ANY other build besides something revolving around GS+Something. You’re right, thank you for illuminating this travesty.

It’s not that they don’t put any effort into those builds. It’s that you rarely see any of those builds in a video played by the professionals..especially warrior condition builds. We don’t see many of those at all so much for variety of being viable in pvp without being carried. ya dig?

Um, exactly…
The sarcasm in my post wasn’t obvious?
:(

I had to put my two cents in it too even though Anet team is aware of the situation. I just want to see something get change for the good instead of the worst.

Oh my bad, misunderstood the intent of your post.
/whoopsface.jpg

Carry on.

Warrior simply lacks deeper mechanics that other classes have and suffers from this.
Thief can rely on stealth, Mesmer on decoying, Eles on burst/healing, Guardian on defense/healing, etc…
Warrior can rely on a few, predictable, short-lived tools to let them survive a bit more, and that’s about it – you rely the most on luck that blowing out all your stuff correctly will kill him before he kills you.

Warrior skills are divided in 4 branches for me:
Gimmick skills → 100B and the like, predictable, easy to break out off/avoid, inefficient in any remotely serious setting.
Bugged skills → Rush, Bull, Bolas, Earthshaker and a few others that are bugged and can fail by default due to inner bugs. Sadly these also happen to be fundamental skill, if they worked.
Survival skills → Defy/Endure Pain predictable and too short duration, Shield block (this one is actually decent), and that’s about it really. Shout healing is a joke against anyone with a brain.
Control skills → There is some good stuff here, but again like survival skills they are nerfed in a way that they are simply not enough to do the job.

I won’t even talk about weapon skills, every weapon is a clone.
1. autoattack
2. vuln/block or some other rarely useful skill
3. cripple
4-5. some semi-useful CC (usually a tad bugged).

I find the Warrior’s innate bugginess, clunkiness and lack of depth to be just an impairment to my skills.

PS:
I’d really like all these elitists who claim the Warrior is fine and it’s a L2P issue to post their videos, tpvp position and ranks because it sounds like a whole lot of bull to me.
If you’re all that good and know all these things why don’t you show it then? I bet that you’re just another dual axe/rifle noobrior who thinks killing unaware people in WvW counts toward your leetness.
Or perhaps one of those mace/shield warriors who achieve nothing but finishing other people’s kills and think it’s their merit.

Red Falcon.8257:

Warrior simply lacks deeper mechanics that other classes have and suffers from this.
Thief can rely on stealth, Mesmer on decoying, Eles on burst/healing, Guardian on defense/healing, etc…
Warrior can rely on a few, predictable, short-lived tools to let them survive a bit more, and that’s about it – you rely the most on luck that blowing out all your stuff correctly will kill him before he kills you.

Warrior skills are divided in 4 branches for me:
Gimmick skills -> 100B and the like, predictable, easy to break out off/avoid, inefficient in any remotely serious setting.
Bugged skills -> Rush, Bull, Bolas, Earthshaker and a few others that are bugged and can fail by default due to inner bugs. Sadly these also happen to be fundamental skill, if they worked.
Survival skills -> Defy/Endure Pain predictable and too short duration, Shield block (this one is actually decent), and that’s about it really. Shout healing is a joke against anyone with a brain.
Control skills -> There is some good stuff here, but again like survival skills they are nerfed in a way that they are simply not enough to do the job.

I won’t even talk about weapon skills, every weapon is a clone.
1. autoattack
2. vuln/block or some other rarely useful skill
3. cripple
4-5. some semi-useful CC (usually a tad bugged).

I find the Warrior’s innate bugginess, clunkiness and lack of depth to be just an impairment to my skills.

PS:
I’d really like all these elitists who claim the Warrior is fine and it’s a L2P issue to post their videos, tpvp position and ranks because it sounds like a whole lot of bull to me.
If you’re all that good and know all these things why don’t you show it then? I bet that you’re just another dual axe/rifle noobrior who thinks killing unaware people in WvW counts toward your leetness.
Or perhaps one of those mace/shield warriors who achieve nothing but finishing other people’s kills and think it’s their merit.

I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said, spot on. If these issues with pathfinding on movement skills and the non-existent weapon diversity could get fixed, warrior might actually be included in pvp, without any further skill/utility/trait adjustments.

Still so fun to play though…

This thread is such a nonsense. You ppl want to be healy,tanky and deal massive dmg at once? Fair enough , i want space ship from which i could shoot people in spvp.. whateveer.

Discussion on warrior pvp is so lulz.

Face it the only type of warrior you’re likely to ever see these a days in “normal matches” is GS + SnM for maximum 100b trolling. On the rare occasion you see warrior using any other build they are liekly suck.

It’s almost as if stun+ haste+ 100b is the only thing going for a warrior…which it is.

FLFW.3105:

This thread is such a nonsense. You ppl want to be healy,tanky and deal massive dmg at once? Fair enough , i want space ship from which i could shoot people in spvp.. whateveer.

Actually people seem to be of the mind of LOSING that ‘massive’ damage (that ONLY comes from a zerker GC HB build) to have the option of viable healy/supporty and tanky styles.

Of course coming directly from your post it can be taken as:
Yeah, we’d like to be like eles/thieves/mesmers too!