Guild Wars 2

The good thing about all this meta talk (in all modes of the game) is that, with HoT, it is all about to be turned on it’s head. Not saying that I have a problem with ‘Meta’ in general, as I’ve been in an organized dungeon speedclear team, a ‘TP Baron’, a ‘go-to’ guild leader, and an sPvP enthusiast for nearly 3 years, but, so far, HoT release is looking to shake things up more than ever before. There will still be NO TRINITY ( so those idiots, after 3 years, can kick rocks), BUT I don’t think meta builds will be so cut-n-dry anymore. Condensed (more efficient/bang-for-the-buck traits) traitlines, stats moved from traitlines and normalized to base/gear, three FULL traitlines, AND new traitlines/utilities/weapons can’t Resist (hehe) shaking up every gamemode.

With other statements from Anet, like “each new specialization will gain existing utility types with the intention of introducing new/powerful, specific Runes/Sigils in the future (ie. Rune of Radiance and Rune of the Trapper)”, builds aren’t gonna be a matter of ‘take the best of the worst [here]’ like we’ve seen in the past.

The PvP/WvW will become much more complex

*addendum (stupid tablet): and even pve, in general, BUT don’t be surprised if our stale, neglected dungeon content remains with a very rigid, the different, meta.

I’m excited overall. (My TP speculations MAY have little to do with all of this. Hehe.)

KarsaiB.9475:

So, by not playing what’s commonly accepted as “meta”, you’re generally dragging your team down. Now, you might experiment something with potential, or just play a far more fun spec, everyone does it. But no amount of “skill” will outweight that same amount put into playing something optimal, nor will a “surprise factor” that you might gain throughout the first 30 seconds of a match. Meta has nothing to do with playing safe, it has all to do with efficiency.

The problem is that the game shifts due to the tournaments. Hambow warrior was not true meta until it won in the CC vs SYNC match. Then it was EVERYWHERE.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

If people only ran the meta, the meta would never change. Rom and Tarcis ran shoutbow when it wasn’t meta, now everyone uses it.

this.

Tman.6349:

*addendum (stupid tablet): and even pve, in general, BUT don’t be surprised if our stale, neglected dungeon content remains with a very rigid, the different, meta.

I’m excited overall. (My TP speculations MAY have little to do with all of this. Hehe.)

dungeons can have mathematically best dps parties, because you fight the same robots every time. pvp however is much more dynamic, and can’t have a mathematically best team.

Mhmm. And that’s exactly why I said what I said in my posts. Soooo….?

data.4093:

KarsaiB.9475:

So, by not playing what’s commonly accepted as “meta”, you’re generally dragging your team down. Now, you might experiment something with potential, or just play a far more fun spec, everyone does it. But no amount of “skill” will outweight that same amount put into playing something optimal, nor will a “surprise factor” that you might gain throughout the first 30 seconds of a match. Meta has nothing to do with playing safe, it has all to do with efficiency.

The problem is that the game shifts due to the tournaments. Hambow warrior was not true meta until it won in the CC vs SYNC match. Then it was EVERYWHERE.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

If people only ran the meta, the meta would never change. Rom and Tarcis ran shoutbow when it wasn’t meta, now everyone uses it.

this.

As I’ve said in first page, the metagame is the most optimal way to win. Playing something that counters a very wide spread strategy is in no way shape or form a random fun build. Hambow was beating down necros and spirit rangers at the time, hence became very widely used, for a very long time.

You’re all approaching this wrong, thinking meta is some kind of group acceptance or validation or w/e. The meta is NOT the most played build. A build being played the most is a consequence of it being generally called metagame, because it is simply what works best in the current situation. The counter to hambow was celestial heavy comps, and is still right now the metagame because it’s still best to run it, despite having generally added another berzerker, making killing celes fairly easy. The moment a single team figures out the counter and starts playing it, that will be the “meta”.

And for the record, Tarcis started playing hambow first on NA, and xjnni made it popular on EU way before CC won PAX.

KarsaiB.9475:

data.4093:

KarsaiB.9475:

So, by not playing what’s commonly accepted as “meta”, you’re generally dragging your team down. Now, you might experiment something with potential, or just play a far more fun spec, everyone does it. But no amount of “skill” will outweight that same amount put into playing something optimal, nor will a “surprise factor” that you might gain throughout the first 30 seconds of a match. Meta has nothing to do with playing safe, it has all to do with efficiency.

The problem is that the game shifts due to the tournaments. Hambow warrior was not true meta until it won in the CC vs SYNC match. Then it was EVERYWHERE.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

If people only ran the meta, the meta would never change. Rom and Tarcis ran shoutbow when it wasn’t meta, now everyone uses it.

this.

As I’ve said in first page, the metagame is the most optimal way to win. Playing something that counters a very wide spread strategy is in no way shape or form a random fun build. Hambow was beating down necros and spirit rangers at the time, hence became very widely used, for a very long time.

You’re all approaching this wrong, thinking meta is some kind of group acceptance or validation or w/e. The meta is NOT the most played build. A build being played the most is a consequence of it being generally called metagame, because it is simply what works best in the current situation. The counter to hambow was celestial heavy comps, and is still right now the metagame because it’s still best to run it, despite having generally added another berzerker, making killing celes fairly easy. The moment a single team figures out the counter and starts playing it, that will be the “meta”.

And for the record, Tarcis started playing hambow first on NA, and xjnni made it popular on EU way before CC won PAX.

What will most likely change the meta is A-net making balance changes and people reacting to it not just somebody getting an a-ha moment. Hambow got created not because of some a-ha moment but because a-net boosted the warrior and then someone saw how it came together into a strong build. Same thing with the celestial builds. The amulet got boosted first. Only then came the celestial builds. What happens is a-net makes some kind of change and then the player-base exploits it.

I main a class that isn’t even in the meta. I don’t get any satisfaction playing something that’s unequivocally established. It can be frustrating at times, but any success I achieve is largely due to my own efforts. That’s satisfying.

Of course, the concept of “meta” is relative, and you need to cultivate a strong understanding of what it even means. You can be “anti-meta”, but given enough time you’ll be a part of the current meta, or even the new meta. That’s how I like to play.

Because the meta is boring. Im getting sick of especially shoutbow warriors. Since the start of the game I played necro and ranger, both non-meta classes. The fact that there even is a true meta is a weak point of this game if you ask me. I have been trying to explore and try new or tweaked builds, which brings fun for me into this game. Creating a build on your own and make it effective in PvP is pretty much the best thing to do in this game for me.

Although I can understand where some frustration is coming from; you don’t want to see a full signet warrior on ur team.

Lemme see…

I run Zerk Hambow while Shoutbow within the current meta is superior (it is, not gonna lie). I have said this multiple times on TS against either guildies or the people I team up with – wanna kill me by boredom? Then force me into Shoutbow
Zerk Hambow is just so much more fun, especially in Solo-play where people usually do not follow up on Banners anyway. It gives a good breather, something to retaliate all the perfect paper fights with

I play Necromancer – power (not wells), or condi, it doesn’t matter. The Meta is cruel to the profession, yet I have fun and somewhat succes on it when I play. Could I be better on a Celementalist? Different role, and safer in Solo Play, but imho not as fun

Same with Ele – Fresh Air is the build I had to play since there was no build viable before last year’s April 15th, so I love it still and play it whenever I please

Condi/Survivalist Ranger – less played by me, but still a playstyle I adore. Once more countered hard by the meta, but to me it is interesting, engaging and in Solo Play actually fairly rewarding

These are all builds or professions which are not considered Meta (anymore). Do I play it because I feel like dragging my team down on purpose? Not really, I just know my level , and on my level it is still rewarding to pick up a build like this and play it succesfully while keeping the fun. I also find it much funnier to see Shoutbows crippling when faced against a pug that has a random Venomhare Thief because suddenly the panic buttons are far from helpful

In all honesty though, this is when I actually que up… I feel nearly no incentive to do so anymore… And why play for anything else than having fun while trying to win?

I don’t play a “meta” build because it doesn’t suit me. I try ed shoutbow for a few games and just didn’t have fun. Would I win more games running shoutbow then my gs/a,s build? Maybe, maybe not. I’m the kind of player that enjoys relentless in your face aggression and anything involving a bow is not that.

I play meta builds if I can & know how to play them at a decent level.

Whatever metabuilds I’m currently using/trying out:

Power necro: I don’t even know how to play necro properly and this build hits like a truck.
Medi-guard: I die too much; I practically have no CC on this and I’m probz just bad in general at guard. I switched this around to PVT medi guard and I’m having an easier time although I know I give up all crits etc but it’s working better. I survive longer I guess.

Builds I made myself:

Engi: full zerk rifle/FT/CC thing. If people don’t focus me this build bites. It’s good with your team as it singles out others with the knockbacks etc. It’s a trash build but I have my laughs; recently changed to PVT for more survival. Still horrible haha.

Warrior: full zerk rifle. Once again if I’m left alone to my own devices, not singled out that F1 skill hits hard. Stopped medi guards not paying attention; squishy classes trying to get away and generally just something of a joke to play when I get bored. I am mostly out-played by pew pew rangers and thus…

…Ranger: full zerk pew pew. This is literally my WvW build and it’s good. When I die to pew pew rangers I switch to this and pretty much give them a taste of their own medicine. It’s ridiculous how devastating and annoying this class can be but ranger was my first 80 so least I know what I’m doing.

Thief: I cannot play this to save my life. Tried everything. I die and get focused like a free hot cake.
Ele: I cannot play this to save my life either but I wanna try full zerk staff ele as the other day what seemed like a premade had one and it hit hard.. that meteor shower in courtyard is just crazy.

Mesmer: Old(?) Shatter build. My mesmer is dusty and I was discouraged earlier when I was still getting used to PvP having being slaughtered with this class so I gave up. Time to time I use it and it can be funny watching opponents trying to figure out what clone is the real one but ehh.. too squishy and thieves wreck it.

Frenk.5917:

Simple question. Why do YOU not run meta, if you do? Are you aware you are crippling your team? Do you think that you are NOT actually crippling your team?

Just a random question, after 3 matches with/against SD engi, Fresh Air eles, GS warrior, healing necros (this one actually surprised me so much I took me more than a few moments to understand it was not a normal necro) ecc.ecc.

Within Guild Wars 2, that question is really a true Catch 22.

If you run meta, you’re instantly called a newb and harassed throughout the game.

If you do not run meta, you’re called greedy/bad and harassed throughout the game.

I do NOT run meta on my two main characters, I run something that is totally different and have great success with it. The main reason i do not run meta with those two characters is because no one knows what to do when they face something they are not prepared for.

Using my Ranger as an example:
“Oh it’s a ranger, he has a Longbow/ Greatsword. This will be Ez”

I don’t run any of those weapons and it throws people for a complete loop when they don’t know how to respond. They become to familiarized with Longbow skills on Ranger that they forget what the other weapon skills and animations are. So for me, it’s a nice advantage to be able to do quick kills and steals.

inb4: ranger bad, ranger op, nerf ranger lb since i run a youtube build from 2k13

Ok you have to think of the end game “meta” as a team build that is designed to compliment each other and max out each build and team effectiveness. A individual “meta” build on one character does not mean that your helping your team seeing as one “meta” build is typically designed to work in a team structure not necessarily as a individual player solo quing. That being said the “meta” is fine as long as its a general guideline but if all you run is pure unfiltered “meta” you’ll get countered more often and additionally possibly hinder your team instead of helping. Start thinking for yourself and you might find you enjoy the game more on your own unique build that’s tailored to your unique playing style.

dragonrage.8921:

Ok you have to think of the end game “meta” as a team build that is designed to compliment each other and max out each build and team effectiveness. A individual “meta” build on one character does not mean that your helping your team seeing as one “meta” build is typically designed to work in a team structure not necessarily as a individual player solo quing. That being said the “meta” is fine as long as its a general guideline but if all you run is pure unfiltered “meta” you’ll get countered more often and additionally possibly hinder your team instead of helping. Start thinking for yourself and you might find you enjoy the game more on your own unique build that’s tailored to your unique playing style.

Exactly, I play D/D ele without stability or a stun breaker (Lava Axe OP). How do I survive? I dodge. I know what attacks to avoid, so, I dodge them.

Yet nearly every ele I come across I see 3 Cantips or 2 Cantips and Arcane Shield. It’s the level of skill you have to keep in mind.
Meta builds really have a lot in common, you can pick up and play it. Easy to use, easy to master. But take a note from the LoL pros, there is a clear difference between pro and high level play. Find something that fits your play style and expand it.

I may not be using something that is ‘meta’ but it doesn’t have to be, I make it work and I make it kill.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Exactly, I play D/D ele without stability or a stun breaker (Lava Axe OP). How do I survive? I dodge. I know what attacks to avoid, so, I dodge them.

Yet nearly every ele I come across I see 3 Cantips or 2 Cantips and Arcane Shield. It’s the level of skill you have to keep in mind.

So when you get stuck inside slick shoes you just dodge?
And you dodge mid-stomp/res within a team fight (where it’s not just the downed person that can cc you)?