You can't balance this game around 5 v 5

You can't balance this game around 5 v 5

in PvP

Posted by: Poplolita.2638

Poplolita.2638

Cookie cutter like mesmers and thieves burst because they can get away with it and the rest bunker up to survive?

Those build are mandatory because of what? 1v1.

You can't balance this game around 5 v 5

in PvP

Posted by: Jason Segel.2908

Jason Segel.2908

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .

I’m not going to write an essay on game balance to explain how you are wrong. Suffice it to say that if ANet balanced for 1v1 tPvP balance would be far, far worse than it is now.

So you are here just to read what everyone says, then offer NO helpful advice because “you are not going to take the time to explain how someone is wrong”

Instead of trying to focus on why everyone is wrong and you are right(probably not the case anyways because everyone is wrong at some point) why don’t you try being helpful.

Sometime, I feel you should just stop posting…

0/10 for helpfulness.

Good thing I am not here to listen to people who tell me to stop posting. Otherwise I would listen to you, and just let the game stay imbalanced.

You can't balance this game around 5 v 5

in PvP

Posted by: Jason Segel.2908

Jason Segel.2908

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .

I’m not going to write an essay on game balance to explain how you are wrong. Suffice it to say that if ANet balanced for 1v1 tPvP balance would be far, far worse than it is now.

So you are here just to read what everyone says, then offer NO helpful advice because “you are not going to take the time to explain how someone is wrong”

Instead of trying to focus on why everyone is wrong and you are right(probably not the case anyways because everyone is wrong at some point) why don’t you try being helpful.

I already explained it once, he didn’t accept it. I could write a much more comprehensive explanation, but I’m fairly sure it will be dismissed anyway. I’m on vacation and have better things to do

All you explained is what I already said, then you try to take credit for it…. You could write much more IF I WROTE MORE FOR YOU TO COPY OFF OF AND PARAPHRASE.

But even though you are on vacation, that doesn’t mean you can’t spend 3 minutes to slam out like 400 ish words Hasn’t stopped you from coming back on the forums, some vacation!

How am I dismissing what you say, when you are paraphrasing what I said?

You can't balance this game around 5 v 5

in PvP

Posted by: Poplolita.2638

Poplolita.2638

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .

I’m not going to write an essay on game balance to explain how you are wrong. Suffice it to say that if ANet balanced for 1v1 tPvP balance would be far, far worse than it is now.

So you are here just to read what everyone says, then offer NO helpful advice because “you are not going to take the time to explain how someone is wrong”

Instead of trying to focus on why everyone is wrong and you are right(probably not the case anyways because everyone is wrong at some point) why don’t you try being helpful.

Sometime, I feel you should just stop posting…

0/10 for helpfulness.

Good thing I am not here to listen to people who tell me to stop posting. Otherwise I would listen to you, and just let the game stay imbalanced.

{Otherwise I would listen to you, and just let the game stay imbalanced}

This kind of assumption proves me two things. One, you didn’t read my posts. Two, for someone calling other people trolls, or 0/10… I think it’s time for you to look yourself into the mirror. Seriously…

You can't balance this game around 5 v 5

in PvP

Posted by: Jason Segel.2908

Jason Segel.2908

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .

I’m not going to write an essay on game balance to explain how you are wrong. Suffice it to say that if ANet balanced for 1v1 tPvP balance would be far, far worse than it is now.

So you are here just to read what everyone says, then offer NO helpful advice because “you are not going to take the time to explain how someone is wrong”

Instead of trying to focus on why everyone is wrong and you are right(probably not the case anyways because everyone is wrong at some point) why don’t you try being helpful.

Sometime, I feel you should just stop posting…

0/10 for helpfulness.

Good thing I am not here to listen to people who tell me to stop posting. Otherwise I would listen to you, and just let the game stay imbalanced.

{Otherwise I would listen to you, and just let the game stay imbalanced}

This kind of assumption proves me two things. One, you didn’t read my posts. Two, for someone calling other people trolls, or 0/10… I think it’s time for you to look yourself into the mirror. Seriously…

What do I do after I look at myself in the mirror? Does that suddenly make me forget everything I ever learned in life and side with you? If you think that will happen you’re going to be disappointed.

You can't balance this game around 5 v 5

in PvP

Posted by: Geewoody.2017

Geewoody.2017

Creating an 8v8-style tournament that restricted teams from using more than one of each profession would be a step in the right direction.

You can't balance this game around 5 v 5

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Posted by: Moderator.3204

Moderator.3204

Since this thread has derailed and people stopped discussing about the actual topic we will close it now.
Please help keep these forums a productive and friendly place by posting in a respectful tone, accepting other opinions and staying away from personal insults in future.