Guild Wars 2

you know this;
at start 1 close , 4 mid …. instead of joining from close to mid… GO FAR to cappppp …gg
losing midfight cause 5vs4 and instant losing far and tripple cap …yay
next instead of regroup and fight on close … again FAR PUSHERs … neverendingstory
next thread willl inculde some major porblem too

Pushing far can work great if you manage to keep the point uncapped and have 1 or even 2 opponents there trying to recap it.

It forces your opponents to spread out. I like doing it especially on Nifhel since it take longer for them to come back from mid and help defend than Foefire.

It completely depends on team composition of course.

One of the reasons Abjured lost to 55 dragons was that they stuck to a 2 point strategy instead of their usual 3 point with the engi pushing far.

I’ll push far sometimes when looking at a ball of necros or dh. On Mesmer, that’s nearly an instant melt for me. My team is better served if I cap far than if I am quickly killed at mid.

Realy depends on the team and map. On legacy it can backfire more easy.

Wolfric.9380:

Realy depends on the team and map. On legacy it can backfire more easy.

I would say legacy is a much better map to push far especially if far means waterfall.
It is easy to survive on waterfall while much harder on mine. So if your home defender gets a though matchup, he can have the choice to go mid instead.

Third world problems indeed.

If I see 2 DH on opposing team I definitely push far, some teams are a drag to fight when they’re together, besides, they’re at a disadvantage when they countersplit ‘cos they’re slow. If I go against a team with a mesmer and 2 thieves, I might NOT push far because I’ll get outsplitted.

When I play a ranged character on foefire I don´t even have to choose, I push far with my teammate and I can fire at both far and at graveyard depending on how the enemy splits. When the enemy splits another guy to far I go far as well and there´s an even spread.

Guild wars is like making a sandwich, make sure theres enough meat loaf everywhere, not just on half the sandwich, else the sandwich doesn´t taste right. It´s a bit irksome when 2 people zerg mid knowing there´s 4 people waiting for them while they have the other points for free.

pushing far works if well coordinated. Having a bunker steal far works wonders to disrupt the enemy team.

Also, when my team is wiped in the first mid clash, i usually head far instead of going back mid. No point trying to retake mid in a teamfight when we obviously don’t have what it takes to win a teamfight.

Aenesthesia.1697:

pushing far works if well coordinated. Having a bunker steal far works wonders to disrupt the enemy team.

Also, when my team is wiped in the first mid clash, i usually head far instead of going back mid. No point trying to retake mid in a teamfight when we obviously don’t have what it takes to win a teamfight.

Only works if you wait for your team to respawn or the same people that wiped your team will gank you at far, they don’t have anything else to do since they already got mid and your team is dead. Your point is absolutely valid though, can´t win a fight, don´t fight it.

But I think if you do a three-point strategy at the start of the game, make sure the team is aware of that and they could be outnumbered at certain point.

Your teeam should always be aware, because they can always get outnumbered at some point. One of my biggest and most common mistakes is forgetting to look at the minimap because I’m being hassled too much, often resulting in poor ole me getting ganked

Some games you are better of to go far. like vs a load of necros, and your team is not set up to deal with them. 4 necros and another vs 4 classes, normally ends with the necro’s melting people faster than they can run away. but making the team split up so your not facing 4 necros in one spot mean’s you have a fighting chance of not losing.

A thief on mid during a teamfight against DHs, necros… Id rather have the thief trying to snatch boss or far.

Of course… playing a thief also means you absolutely HAVE TO know when to – and how to – disengage.

Far pushers → np.
Far rallybots → the pest.

For normal PUG’n Yolo Q I advocate against FAR.

Unless you’ve got a group of 5 that know how to play it vs another group.

Now what I REALLY HATE are those noobs that… after capping mid… run far to try to cap far and leave mid and close empty.

THATS stupid, and THOSE people should just NEVER be allowed to play pvp again.

Yes, I will hoof my kitten to far when the 4 that went mid wipe before or just as I finish capping home. There is zero point going mid at that time, and hanging out at home when the 4 of them will be respawning isn’t necessarily the wisest choice either.

Or, if I’m one of the ones that went mid and my 3 teammates melt like butter (and I can’t safely get them back up) I’ll hoof my kitten out of the fight and poke far to see if I can entice a few away from mid, this way when my teammates respawn they can attempt it again (cause you just know they will).

Of course, there are plenty of games where I start by going far, because as a necro I can usually delay that initial cap significantly, if not steal it all together. Just depends on what I’m facing and if someone comes to help them and what that someone is.

The Far capper dilema!

Far is a legitimate plan only if its the plan…… u either go for sides, or mid/home but u CANT get both game plans at the same time or its gg.

In my opinion, pushing far is a good thing a lot of the time- if I am in the team fight on mid at the start of the game and one of my team mates dies I immediately go far so my team can have a 2-cap or at least 1 cap each with far contested even though we lost the team fight at mid.
I sometimes push far immediately after leaving the base when the game starts as well, although this is much harder on forest. This is because if my team can hold the 4v3 at mid (assuming no enemy went for our close) for just a little while until whoever went close arrives at mid, we have all fights with even numbers and we have a cap in our favour when the enemy have none. We could even have both side caps with mid being a 4v4 if I can win my 1v1 on far quick enough (I absolutely melt thieves and necros on my ranger which I always play now so this usually happens when I am against those classes). Of course this really depends on if you are good at most 1v1 fights, but from my experience far pushes are usually a good thing.

So what you are saying is… as soon as one goes down in a 4v4 fight… you abandon ship and let the other 2 die in a 4v2 fight instead of brazening it out in a 3v4 fight. But sometimes you expect your teammates to pull through a 3v4 fight because you like to have a 1v1 on far.

GG. I hope Ill never have you on my team.

Yasi.9065:

So what you are saying is… as soon as one goes down in a 4v4 fight… you abandon ship and let the other 2 die in a 4v2 fight instead of brazening it out in a 3v4 fight. But sometimes you expect your teammates to pull through a 3v4 fight because you like to have a 1v1 on far.

GG. I hope Ill never have you on my team.

What I am saying is that my teammates will only have to hold a 4v3 for maybe 20 seconds, which is very doable. I abandon fights where my team loses members because when that happens, the fight is lost. In my opinion there is no point fighting for a lost cause when you can leave that fight and go far, which has no one defending it. My teammates should also leave rather than fighting any longer. I see them doing this sometimes on the Pro League so it must be the best decision as I used to stay in a fight that was lost but after seeing how the pros play I know that it is a good option to leave and cap a free point.

Yasi.. The following are the essential rules in sPvP.

1. Never ever go into 1v1 fight for an enemy controlled point.
2. Always go to help +1 fights
3. Cap far ONLY if its empty (its better to just decap it and go back to help ur team)
4. If u wipe enemy team, NEVER GO FAR because they will rez and zerg u.
5. Resurrecting a team-mate is faster and better than stomping an enemy unless u have Stability/invul
6. Read team chat
7. Look at your minimap

W/e the game plan is… everyone should follow these basic rules….

The essential rules for forums? Reading. Thanks.

Suffish, you wrote that you leave AS SOON AS ONE DIES. But if one dies that doesnt mean the fight is lost… it however is 100% lost when you abandon that 3v4 in favor for a 1v1 on far. Especially as a druid Im more often than not able to turn around fights on mid that started out with one of my teammates dieing in first push.
You leaving – as a ranger – that fight just because ONE GOT KILLED… thats stupid. And shows a total lack of being able to assessing the state of the fight.

Yasi.9065:

The essential rules for forums? Reading. Thanks.

Suffish, you wrote that you leave AS SOON AS ONE DIES. But if one dies that doesnt mean the fight is lost… it however is 100% lost when you abandon that 3v4 in favor for a 1v1 on far. Especially as a druid Im more often than not able to turn around fights on mid that started out with one of my teammates dieing in first push.
You leaving – as a ranger – that fight just because ONE GOT KILLED… thats stupid. And shows a total lack of being able to assessing the state of the fight.

Thanks for the advice, I was under the impression that Druid was better as a roamer type class but if you say it is good on team fights and can turn a 3v4 around I will try staying in those fights and seeing what results I get. Hopefully it will improve my play on that class.

Druid is one of the best healers in this game…

If you hate far pushers, youre limiting yourself to a lower level of play. Watch some esl footage and only watch the minimap while thinking.

The only times I would not push a 3cap is if enemy has a 0 sustain comp like 3-5 thieves+necros , meaning they will 100% lose a longer teamfight, while if it was 2v2s their chances would be much higher.

MATCHUPS
thats all that matters my friend.
your example of “we instanly lose 4v5 cz one guy push far” is a ridicule.
You lost it because you lacked mehanics and would probably lose the 4v4 aswell…..The correct call is to either stall 4v5 FOREVER while enemy is 2-0 capped, even if ones guy dies you can spread to sides 2cap…the far pusher won u half of game, look at minimap and act with it.

“MID IS EVERYTHING, MID IS LIFE”

Yes a 0-4-1 split is safest thing to do if you dont have any ideas on what to do, but it is far from best split….and the best split is BEING FLEXIBLE PLAYER, you move to and leave bad matchups.

Arkantos.7460:

you know this;
at start 1 close , 4 mid …. instead of joining from close to mid… GO FAR to cappppp …gg
losing midfight cause 5vs4 and instant losing far and tripple cap …yay
next instead of regroup and fight on close … again FAR PUSHERs … neverendingstory
next thread willl inculde some major porblem too

The issue with this and with a lot of posts here is that there are NO hard and fast rules. Everything is situational. You need to rotate based on what the other team is doing. Teams must adapt and not try to follow some set of rules.

Pushing far at the start is also situational. A premade will almost always contest all 3 points. A pug team should either do it or not based on the team comp.

1, 4. This should always be the primary strategy. When executed well, and with teammates that are able to win a fight, this strategy is eeeeeeasy. That being said, puglyfe+reaper syndrome can often mean losing the team fight at mid. Any half decent player should be watching for this eventuality, and be ready to execute an exit strategy from mid-fight to peel away to far.

This should be done BEFORE teammates at mid are totally wiped. If they are going down, one player sticking around for those last few seconds is just wasting a respawn. Not saying to bail in first 5 seconds, but watch team health bars, and time it so you can slip away while enemies are stomping your pugs.

This is not the job for a necro, bunker ele, or warrior. Whoever peels needs to be able to do so fast and ideally without being seen. Thief or engi is best. Ranger, dh, or mes right behind with soft cc allowing for quick escapes/peels, or effective disengagement utilities like mes has.

“Playing the sides” is often not a good long term strategy. If your team lost at mid they will lose on side nodes too. Capping far is a divide and conquer tactic. Forces their team to extend their coverage, and increasing odds of winning a node fight. The goal should be though, in my opinion, to split them and win back the mid/home cap advantage. Trying to sustainably hold far without leaving someone there is not smart. It’s additional travel time, and you spend 1/3 of that time fairly exposed. If you are spending time, or god forbid fighting off node, you are not only not helping, directly hurting your team.

So far all of my matches in ruby, against 4 to 5 man premades as well, have all been won due to rotations on our part. There is nothing wrong with someone pushing far; it’s often better than giving them free 5 points every time you re-spawn only to get slaughtered mid.

Pushing far is great if you send the right profession. The best ones are condition Chronomancer and Scrapper as they are the best 1v1ers that can win. Another reason Mesmer and Engi are best is because they are fast. Engis can get perma swiftness and high superspeed uptime so they can get back to mid quickly should it be needed. Condition Mesmers are even better because they can place a portal, and they are by far the most powerful 1v1 spec.

Most other professions are best sent to mid. Tempests, though tanky, don’t do much damage outside of Air and they’re support is too valuable not to have at mid. Druids are also too valuable not to have, plus they are slow. Thieves better for backcapping or picking off low targets. They won’t be able to 1v1 too well at far. Dragonhunters can force someone off a point temporarily, but only until their traps are finished. Reapers are slow and won’t do as well without life force. I suppose a condition Rev could do it because they are quick and powerful.

The Problem is that ppl push far with the wrong chars and with the wrong players on close/mid.

If you have some sustainy classes mid, like Ele, Scrapper or sth. and a very mobile class getting close (rev), so he can join mid really quickly, it can work very well. Of course, the player pushing far should be able to win or stall the opposing player there as well, so there’s often a bit of guessing involved and the player pushing far should immediately go mid if he see’s a MU he’s not gonna win/stall (and be able to disengage when needed).

Problem is that ppl don’t think about it in terms of overall strategy; they see ESL-teams do it and just go for it, without thinking about why it worked. A lot goes into making strategic plays like that work and it’s mostly stuff you don’t learn by just solo-q’ing.

It can be just as bad to just send 4 players mid though: if you don’t have enough DMG mid and they have 3 tanky classes there and pushing your far with a strong 1v1 class in a for you unfavourable MU, you’ll not get mid and you’ll loose close+far.

Guess this game has strategic depth after all…. :P

Arkantos.7460:

you know this;
at start 1 close , 4 mid …. instead of joining from close to mid… GO FAR to cappppp …gg
losing midfight cause 5vs4 and instant losing far and tripple cap …yay
next instead of regroup and fight on close … again FAR PUSHERs … neverendingstory
next thread willl inculde some major porblem too

If you believe that there is only 1 strategy which allows you to win and you stick to it every game, you are going to find yourself having difficulty most games.

I agree with OP. The difference is really whether or not that person even captures far to begin with.

I’ve seen it so many times where some “hero” will run off to far after the team agreed to all push for mid at the beginning of match, and then lose the 1v1. Causing your team to be out manned at mid, and this usually leads to a triple cap for the opposing team.

If someone can push far and hold it for a noticeable amount of time that would be different, but how often does that really happen..?

I usually advise against far at start, but suggest for it only after we have capped home and mid. Depends on team comp. If they have a plan for taking far, instead of YOLO then okay. Usually though after losing mid, or home they will try to push far afterwards, and then I go back or do a shoutout to watch for backcap on home.

Too many variables to give a definite solution imo to the far dilemma (prefer to play safe)

you must be a new player

A few things

1- By pushing far you make it a numbers game
By playing 3 points you can control the rotating game. This allows people to make decisions in game that make a difference.

2- Team comp
If you push mid fights and lose maybe your team isnt built for team fights. Acting like 1 person went far doesnt take away from what you do. If you go 1-3-1 and the other team goes 1-4-0 that means the person at home who capped will be going mid soon. This is how the good teams, good pugs, good players in the game carry bad players. It can be impossible to carry in team fights since there is so much weapon and utility skills effects. But if i run far and win the 1 vs 1 and some one from mid comes far and i beat him and the person i killed at far comes off of respawn and beat him. It means at some point if you are even decent you should be able to help a team mate win a point.

3-Do you know what you are good at
People all the time peel out from fights too early or too late. If you go mid and see there is 4 and there is only 3 of you there. Can you sustain a point? Do you support your team mates with your skills? If you dont what are you doing in team fights?

People who dont play a far point tend to be players who are not very good. The play only 2 points is a good strategy when you have 2 points to defend.

kdaddy.5431:

you must be a new player

A few things

1- By pushing far you make it a numbers game
By playing 3 points you can control the rotating game. This allows people to make decisions in game that make a difference.
(…)

This of course means that player that went far actually knows how to get that point and when to just leave it be. Otherwise you dont control and instead play permanently 4v5.

kdaddy.5431:

2- Team comp
If you push mid fights and lose maybe your team isnt built for team fights. Acting like 1 person went far doesnt take away from what you do. If you go 1-3-1 and the other team goes 1-4-0 that means the person at home who capped will be going mid soon. This is how the good teams, good pugs, good players in the game carry bad players. It can be impossible to carry in team fights since there is so much weapon and utility skills effects. But if i run far and win the 1 vs 1 and some one from mid comes far and i beat him and the person i killed at far comes off of respawn and beat him. It means at some point if you are even decent you should be able to help a team mate win a point.
(…)

Your team looses teamfights -> usually means you wont get 1 coming to defend his close, its 2-3 and the only thing you were able to do is maybe cap far for 5 seconds, or even only keep point decapped. Also, the chances of someone coming close to defend from mid that is squishy as kitten and you can just kill him fast enough for actual close point defender to not make it to close in time… its unrealistic in current meta. So you saying, that you basically go far, kill Nr.1, kill Nr.2 and then kill Nr. 1 again… its a thing that only happens against really really really bad players.
Lets be more realistic here and have engi or druid coming from mid to kill you / keep you from capping. You wont be able to kill those fast enough for you to not end up in a 2v1 situation. Current meta doesnt support that theory at all…. it hasnt worked that way since thief and mesmer nerf.

kdaddy.5431:

3-Do you know what you are good at
People all the time peel out from fights too early or too late. If you go mid and see there is 4 and there is only 3 of you there. Can you sustain a point? Do you support your team mates with your skills? If you dont what are you doing in team fights?

People who dont play a far point tend to be players who are not very good. The play only 2 points is a good strategy when you have 2 points to defend.

This thread is about players pushing far too early in the game, or when the time isnt right for it (respawning enemies, mid and close getting attacked and someone standing on far capping it instead of just decapping etc.)
It is about players that constantly make bad judgement calls because “pro’s do it also” or because they simply dont know how to properly rotate. Players that cant read a teamroster and realize what impact a mesmer has on rotations.
Players that constantly ignore party window and minimap and just tunnelvision their thing, no matter what.

There are situations I push far from close. If my team managed to already be down to 1-2 players trying to contest mid. If my team looks fine on mid (full health, nobody got downed yet), but fight still ongoing and not too many enemies on respawn timer. But those situations are very rare.
Most of the time its 4-1, with either winning teamfight on mid and then pull back to defend close/mid against respawners… or loosing teamfight and on to sides / bosses to split enemy team up.
Once in a while I get a team comp that forces me to play sides from the beginning… but then its announced in mapchat (pewpew times without having reflects on legacy/commune map). But thats only a thing if team comp just isnt suited for terrain on mid.
Once in a while I get a really good thief on my team that manages to get far and then moves on to farm respawners… but havent seen more than one of these in like forever.

Mind you… this is about the first few minutes into a match.

@Kdaddy- All the stuff you just posted is hearsay, you don’t really know what kind of group you’re getting unless you are in a premade. You can call it numbers game but what it really is, is taking a gamble. Is doing 1-4-0 a good plan? Sure. Can you do a 1-3-1 ?Sure, and so and so fourth. You can do it doesn’t mean it’s optimal. It’s as much player skill, class comp, communication, and map choice that determines ALL these factors and then some. My PREFERENCE is 1-4-0 but I can adapt if they have a plan for it. All in all people are people, and will do what they do regardless of what anyone says/suggests.

kdaddy.5431:

you must be a new player

…..
People who dont play a far point tend to be players who are not very good.

I play this game since launch, played pvp since launch over 6k ranked games
In respect all of what you say but math and tactic doesnt changed since launch.

It is the fact I cannot play as 4 other teammembers, when soloq.
It is the fact that pushing far instead of helping teammates will outnumber your own team 4vs5 and result into fail, its simple math.
It is the fact to play safe on 2 points to get a safe win instead of pushing far for a cap and decrease your chance to control all 3 points and result into losing all points.

Lets get this straight,

I took the offensive of people who push far. Every situation is different and every match is different. This thread is a joke, the people who comment GG and other stuff when the other team gets the first 2 cap points are poor players.

I had a guild member say to me and another person from our guild GG when the score was 100-25. We started laughing at him. We ended up losing 496-501 when we had a 3 cap and someone simply died.

You talk about someone going far as if its a bad thing and im sorry i completely disagree. I mostly solo que and i either grab home or run far. You guys actually trying to make a point about people pushing far for the reasons you lose.

People come on the forum to complain all the time but it truly comes down to can you win your fights. Can you win teams fights in 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 situations? Can you win 1 vs 1 situations?

You guys are literally trying to talk tactics and say its bad because its a 4 vs 5, ummmmm learn to rotate, peel out, set up a point attack. If all 5 of the enemy is at a point that means 2 other points are empty and once again. If you spread people out it becomes about winning your fights.

As someone who rushes far over 50% of the time i have shown multiple times on this forum the wins/ losses of playing in ranked. When i run far or someone else does and the other players im playing with are good. And the other team is average and play this home and mid tactic, they tend to lose big.

Which is why people are crying all over the forum, that legendary players are winning 500-15 solo queing. You can pretend to act like its the people running far but if you are getting triple capped then you too have made a mistake. Once again ill take the person pushing far side since this thread isnt a real thing and simply put its peoples opinion on strategy when you are not right though you are acting like it.

I never argued I was right, just stated it’s subjective, and like you pointed out, it is.

Yasi.9065:

Now what I REALLY HATE are those noobs that… after capping mid… run far to try to cap far and leave mid and close empty.

THATS stupid, and THOSE people should just NEVER be allowed to play pvp again.

Depends how fast you are… I can do this, cap far and get back to mid in Foe Fire.

Early Pushes to Far can totally work. In Forest, I some times (out of boredm) convince my fellow solo q ers. to send 2 to home and 3 to far, with one running over to beast. You let all those slow necros on their team trundle their way to mid.

shion.2084:

Yasi.9065:

Now what I REALLY HATE are those noobs that… after capping mid… run far to try to cap far and leave mid and close empty.

THATS stupid, and THOSE people should just NEVER be allowed to play pvp again.

Depends how fast you are… I can do this, cap far and get back to mid in Foe Fire.

Mes portal is lovely for this. Or to pop back to home from mid…

Crimson Shi.5047:

@Kdaddy- All the stuff you just posted is hearsay, you don’t really know what kind of group you’re getting unless you are in a premade. You can call it numbers game but what it really is, is taking a gamble. Is doing 1-4-0 a good plan? Sure. Can you do a 1-3-1 ?Sure, and so and so fourth. You can do it doesn’t mean it’s optimal. It’s as much player skill, class comp, communication, and map choice that determines ALL these factors and then some. My PREFERENCE is 1-4-0 but I can adapt if they have a plan for it. All in all people are people, and will do what they do regardless of what anyone says/suggests.

this is true but let me ask the question.

Since all the meta builds are builds coming from the Pro players. If anyone watched 55 Rank Dragons vs the Abjured you would of noticed a few things like they were almost running the exact same comp/ builds/ and trying to get the same isolation’s vs a certain player.

What was a huge difference at the start of match? Rank 55 played for 3 points at start and the Abjured played for 2. I myself play for 3 points a majority of the time but i too play smart and to the numbers.

But heres the question, the community for the most part copies the ESL players. And for 3 years all the Pro teams pushed for 2 cap points. And in the Pro league finals Rank 55 pushed for all 3 cap point.

Why is this thread crying about pushing far when the best players and teams in this game all do it?

kdaddy.5431:

Crimson Shi.5047:

@Kdaddy- All the stuff you just posted is hearsay, you don’t really know what kind of group you’re getting unless you are in a premade. You can call it numbers game but what it really is, is taking a gamble. Is doing 1-4-0 a good plan? Sure. Can you do a 1-3-1 ?Sure, and so and so fourth. You can do it doesn’t mean it’s optimal. It’s as much player skill, class comp, communication, and map choice that determines ALL these factors and then some. My PREFERENCE is 1-4-0 but I can adapt if they have a plan for it. All in all people are people, and will do what they do regardless of what anyone says/suggests.

this is true but let me ask the question.

Since all the meta builds are builds coming from the Pro players. If anyone watched 55 Rank Dragons vs the Abjured you would of noticed a few things like they were almost running the exact same comp/ builds/ and trying to get the same isolation’s vs a certain player.

What was a huge difference at the start of match? Rank 55 played for 3 points at start and the Abjured played for 2. I myself play for 3 points a majority of the time but i too play smart and to the numbers.

But heres the question, the community for the most part copies the ESL players. And for 3 years all the Pro teams pushed for 2 cap points. And in the Pro league finals Rank 55 pushed for all 3 cap point.

Why is this thread crying about pushing far when the best players and teams in this game all do it?

Why are you assuming everyone who spvps currently are at the skill level of those teams? They can copy it doesn’t mean they’ll pull it off, let alone pull it off well.

Yasi.9065:

kdaddy.5431:

you must be a new player

A few things

1- By pushing far you make it a numbers game
By playing 3 points you can control the rotating game. This allows people to make decisions in game that make a difference.
(…)

This of course means that player that went far actually knows how to get that point and when to just leave it be. Otherwise you dont control and instead play permanently 4v5.

kdaddy.5431:

2- Team comp
If you push mid fights and lose maybe your team isnt built for team fights. Acting like 1 person went far doesnt take away from what you do. If you go 1-3-1 and the other team goes 1-4-0 that means the person at home who capped will be going mid soon. This is how the good teams, good pugs, good players in the game carry bad players. It can be impossible to carry in team fights since there is so much weapon and utility skills effects. But if i run far and win the 1 vs 1 and some one from mid comes far and i beat him and the person i killed at far comes off of respawn and beat him. It means at some point if you are even decent you should be able to help a team mate win a point.
(…)

Your team looses teamfights -> usually means you wont get 1 coming to defend his close, its 2-3 and the only thing you were able to do is maybe cap far for 5 seconds, or even only keep point decapped. Also, the chances of someone coming close to defend from mid that is squishy as kitten and you can just kill him fast enough for actual close point defender to not make it to close in time… its unrealistic in current meta. So you saying, that you basically go far, kill Nr.1, kill Nr.2 and then kill Nr. 1 again… its a thing that only happens against really really really bad players.
Lets be more realistic here and have engi or druid coming from mid to kill you / keep you from capping. You wont be able to kill those fast enough for you to not end up in a 2v1 situation. Current meta doesnt support that theory at all…. it hasnt worked that way since thief and mesmer nerf.

kdaddy.5431:

3-Do you know what you are good at
People all the time peel out from fights too early or too late. If you go mid and see there is 4 and there is only 3 of you there. Can you sustain a point? Do you support your team mates with your skills? If you dont what are you doing in team fights?

People who dont play a far point tend to be players who are not very good. The play only 2 points is a good strategy when you have 2 points to defend.

This thread is about players pushing far too early in the game, or when the time isnt right for it (respawning enemies, mid and close getting attacked and someone standing on far capping it instead of just decapping etc.)
It is about players that constantly make bad judgement calls because “pro’s do it also” or because they simply dont know how to properly rotate. Players that cant read a teamroster and realize what impact a mesmer has on rotations.
Players that constantly ignore party window and minimap and just tunnelvision their thing, no matter what.

There are situations I push far from close. If my team managed to already be down to 1-2 players trying to contest mid. If my team looks fine on mid (full health, nobody got downed yet), but fight still ongoing and not too many enemies on respawn timer. But those situations are very rare.
Most of the time its 4-1, with either winning teamfight on mid and then pull back to defend close/mid against respawners… or loosing teamfight and on to sides / bosses to split enemy team up.
Once in a while I get a team comp that forces me to play sides from the beginning… but then its announced in mapchat (pewpew times without having reflects on legacy/commune map). But thats only a thing if team comp just isnt suited for terrain on mid.
Once in a while I get a really good thief on my team that manages to get far and then moves on to farm respawners… but havent seen more than one of these in like forever.

Mind you… this is about the first few minutes into a match.

So you are arguing the basis because its not realistic in your opinion and because its people not rotating when they are suppose too.

1- you dont know because you dont know the skill levels of the players.

2- you cant decide or say someone rotations are bad when you dont know what they are thinking or what they see especially when you are solo queing.

So my and 2 guild members decided to some guild matches. we faced 2 full premades who ran all meta comp. 2 Revs, 1 ele, 1 scrapper and 1 necro. I ran my warrior, 1 ran a druid and my other guild member ran hammer rev. We beat both of those teams and the game we lost with these non-meta builds was 496-501 to another full pre-made.

You can not legitimately defend this thread because there are to many variables. Can I and my guild members run these builds and play styles vs ESL Pro League teams, No. But this thread isnt talking Pro level players. Its talking pushing far and you and nobody in the game, NOBODY can say pushing far is a bad choice when solo queing.

Crimson Shi.5047:

kdaddy.5431:

Crimson Shi.5047:

@Kdaddy- All the stuff you just posted is hearsay, you don’t really know what kind of group you’re getting unless you are in a premade. You can call it numbers game but what it really is, is taking a gamble. Is doing 1-4-0 a good plan? Sure. Can you do a 1-3-1 ?Sure, and so and so fourth. You can do it doesn’t mean it’s optimal. It’s as much player skill, class comp, communication, and map choice that determines ALL these factors and then some. My PREFERENCE is 1-4-0 but I can adapt if they have a plan for it. All in all people are people, and will do what they do regardless of what anyone says/suggests.

this is true but let me ask the question.

Since all the meta builds are builds coming from the Pro players. If anyone watched 55 Rank Dragons vs the Abjured you would of noticed a few things like they were almost running the exact same comp/ builds/ and trying to get the same isolation’s vs a certain player.

What was a huge difference at the start of match? Rank 55 played for 3 points at start and the Abjured played for 2. I myself play for 3 points a majority of the time but i too play smart and to the numbers.

But heres the question, the community for the most part copies the ESL players. And for 3 years all the Pro teams pushed for 2 cap points. And in the Pro league finals Rank 55 pushed for all 3 cap point.

Why is this thread crying about pushing far when the best players and teams in this game all do it?

Why are you assuming everyone who spvps currently are at the skill level of those teams? They can copy it doesn’t mean they’ll pull it off, let alone pull it off well.

Im not asking them to play as well as them. But if you are to copy and try to imitate the best players in the game, why are you not following the same 3 point strategy?

90% of soloqueue players SHOULD NOT PUSH FAR. Its as simple as that. Why? Because they arent skilled enough for anything but standard 4-1 play.

Its as simple as that.

Out of curiosity i read the whole thread.

kdaddy.5431:

you must be a new player

…..
People who dont play a far point tend to be players who are not very good.

Beside mine, this guy summed it up even better.

a) if you get his posts, gz, youre probably around top500-1000 player who can also watch minimap

b) if you dont get it, youre probably top 90% max soloq, who only counts 1+1+1=3 instead of sorting classes by bunker/dps and you never fight off-point

TLDR
3cap > 2cap always
read kdadys explanation
Insteead of witchunting “why did you go far” , poeple should spread knowledge of “why are you so inflexible to leave a bad fight and take other 2 good ones” instead.

pushing far has several advantages and depends on group composition
you will need some sustain in mid fight if all zerk dont push far . if there is engi and ele or druid than push far

push far if you think you can stall the cap or can handle 1v1 and win for cap.

push far if you think you can handle some 1v2 for 1 min so your team will have better chances on other two points

push far for the decap and come back asap to mid (mesmer or thief usually or druid even)

also in soloq let your team know you gonna push far

Yasi.9065:

90% of soloqueue players SHOULD NOT PUSH FAR. Its as simple as that. Why? Because they arent skilled enough for anything but standard 4-1 play.

Its as simple as that.

Not meant personal but as an exagerated example:

a) lets all clash in a big chaotic cluster
somebody random dies
we assume there is no rezz or that rezz = cleave = CDs = soon next down….we assume since its the soloq majority were discussing
3v4 on neutral node , +1 from each home joins
2013 legacy teamfight for 3min, until one side gets cap… GG

Basically you lost the fight already, but you chased a carrot on stick to make it look like “im doing something. Im HOLDING THE MID. Hold THE MID, HOLD THE NEUTRAL. Hurrr”

b) Point A, u ok? Yes.
Point B, u ok? 50/50 will take forever
Point C, u ok? negative, im 2v1 but i can troll kite them.
A —- go help B once you finish
B —- stay cool, just stay alive till A arrives
C —- perfect, keep trolling, if they leave you 1v1, can you win? probably, ill force decap for sure

Now which is easier to follow, more logical, and has BETTER PLAYER winning cz of BETTER FIGHTS?
If you want the majority of playerbase not learn but play the random cluster – maybe check out DiceRoll WorldChampionships2016