Guild Wars 2

hey everyone please discuss about what i proposed thanks !

Diamond Skin
“Conditions currently on you are ineffective when your health is above the threshold.”
Health Threshold: 90%

Been playing quite a few matches with the meta ele.
Its not that good.
What is it ? 2 , 3 power hits and the grandmaster trait is gone. You cant expect to down the ele just from random aoe when you know most of them run this trait.

Edit: On the rework.

I dont like it. Current trait forces you to save condibombs for when you know they are going to be effective. With that rework, condi builds only need to spam and stack the dmg while they wait for the power dmg to go through.

Zewad.6138:

Been playing quite a few matches with the meta ele.
Its not that good.
What is it ? 2 , 3 power hits and the grandmaster trait is gone. You cant expect to down the ele just from random aoe when you know most of them run this trait.

Edit: On the rework.

I dont like it. Current trait forces you to save condibombs for when you know they are going to be effective. With that rework, condi builds only need to spam and stack the dmg while they wait for the power dmg to go through.

ah, tahnsk for the feedback!

well, the applied conditions will expire though, and can be cleansed as well.
but what if the health threshold is lowered?

Diamond Skin
“Conditions currently on you are ineffective when your health is above the threshold.”
Health Threshold: 75%

would 75% too low?
that would become a buff instead?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Zewad.6138:

Been playing quite a few matches with the meta ele.
Its not that good.
What is it ? 2 , 3 power hits and the grandmaster trait is gone. You cant expect to down the ele just from random aoe when you know most of them run this trait.

Edit: On the rework.

I dont like it. Current trait forces you to save condibombs for when you know they are going to be effective. With that rework, condi builds only need to spam and stack the dmg while they wait for the power dmg to go through.

ah, tahnsk for the feedback!

well, the applied conditions will expire though, and can be cleansed as well.
but what if the health threshold is lowered?

Diamond Skin
“Conditions currently on you are ineffective when your health is above the threshold.”
Health Threshold: 75%

would 75% too low?
that would become a buff instead?

Just give Ele’s a minus Condi Duration above a certain threshold that, with runes, could take away 100% or almost 100% of a condition’s duration. If they want to get complete Condition negation they have to invest more than just one trait, it keeps its potency as a defensive tool, and it allows Condi Specs to have a chance only if they invest in +Condi duration. It’s almost balanced.

HipposWild.7185:

meow one twenty.4376:

Effective health is the amount of damage they can take after damage reduction modifiers are accounted for. If you have Protection your effective health against power damage increases. Conditions only have damage mitigation from gear and stats in the form of Runes, which I didnt account for either class because only the most effective/common builds matter and I’m not going to guess what the most effective/common combinations would be if Iron Skin was a thing. This is the same for amulets. I gave the ele an amulet with lower vitality and it had near the same amount of effective health as the Warrior, meaning I even gave you and advantage PLUS I also didn’t account for your toughness.

I don’t expect a zerker to break through the threshold, just like I dont expect a condi class to break through DS. That’s the point, silly.

So first off all protection is completely removable which is how you kill an ele fast. It is available to warrior a well and not a valid adjustment.

As you said it doesn’t even account for the difference between light and heavy armor. Base light armor is 920 vs heavy being 1211 which means base line warrior takes 30% less physical damage. That gets diluted by runes but it’s very misleading to claim effective health of ele needs to be increased because they have good access to protection which decreases damage similar to the toughness factors.

If they didn’t split the classes health and armor it would be way easier to balance but they don’t.

Second as I said before you have base power damage. It’s not necessarily going to be amazing on condi specs but on zerker specs you have virtually no condi damage. That is a massive difference.

You either aren’t thinking straight or do not understand the game well enough. Confer to Drarnor’s post on why the extra Toughness/Protection is irrelevant for Iron Skin but necessary for Diamond Skin. As for the Boon Ripping, it’s not a straight 1 for 1 trade. Warrior would be vulnerable to all control effects, unlike DS Ele, and Ele has the small opportunity to lose Protection every once in a while. Iron Skin would be super balanced when compared to Diamond skin but could never happen because of PvE.

meow one twenty.4376:

You either aren’t thinking straight or do not understand the game well enough. Confer to Drarnor’s post on why the extra Toughness/Protection is irrelevant for Iron Skin but necessary for Diamond Skin. As for the Boon Ripping, it’s not a straight 1 for 1 trade. Warrior would be vulnerable to all control effects, unlike DS Ele, and Ele has the small opportunity to lose Protection every once in a while. Iron Skin would be super balanced when compared to Diamond skin but could never happen because of PvE.

Here’s the deal… what you’re saying doesn’t address any of the concerns. Extra toughness/protection would not effect condition damage pool required to get 10% gone with condi damage, but it’s absurd to claim that because you have access to protection which can be removed that you need to double the pool to make the numbers look better for you. Should we also add the infinite amount of condi reduction you can receive from resistance which you can get for 6 seconds from healing signet or 3 from defender runes? plus the boon duration which according to your calculations appeared infinite. Well that would be nonsense, but if it’s the gold standard we’re going by why not.

I was not saying extra toughness reduces condition damage. I’m saying you can’t just adjust the numbers as you please. The health adjustment for ele’s extra protection has to be in comparison to something in order to justify it. I’m saying that they’re not taking 40% less physical damage than a warrior because warrior base damage is 25% (x/920 vs x/1211) lower to start……… Some classes get physical damage reduction from toughness and others from protection so to say their health should be adjusted up to compensate for the lower physical damage they take doesn’t make sense……………………………… One can be stripped btw.

You’re still not addressing that every class has base attack damage for physical damage. No classes have base condi damage. Meaning that you’re not just introducing a hard counter you’re potentially eliminating thieves or pure physical classes. That doesn’t make sense. A condi necro still does some base physical damage and has a theoretical chance to break the 10% threshold. A thief zerker without some massive might boost could not possibly break the 10% threshold.

Additionally warrior has the highest base toughness and health. Ele breaks easily once you strip the protection and learn to interrupt the heals. It has counter play. Is it overall overpowered compared to average? Absolutely! Is introducing something several times worse going to improve the matter?

HipposWild.7185:

meow one twenty.4376:

You either aren’t thinking straight or do not understand the game well enough. Confer to Drarnor’s post on why the extra Toughness/Protection is irrelevant for Iron Skin but necessary for Diamond Skin. As for the Boon Ripping, it’s not a straight 1 for 1 trade. Warrior would be vulnerable to all control effects, unlike DS Ele, and Ele has the small opportunity to lose Protection every once in a while. Iron Skin would be super balanced when compared to Diamond skin but could never happen because of PvE.

Here’s the deal… what you’re saying doesn’t address any of the concerns. Extra toughness/protection would not effect condition damage pool required to get 10% gone with condi damage, but it’s absurd to claim that because you have access to protection which can be removed that you need to double the pool to make the numbers look better for you. Should we also add the infinite amount of condi reduction you can receive from resistance which you can get for 6 seconds from healing signet or 3 from defender runes? plus the boon duration which according to your calculations appeared infinite. Well that would be nonsense, but if it’s the gold standard we’re going by why not.

I was not saying extra toughness reduces condition damage. I’m saying you can’t just adjust the numbers as you please. The health adjustment for ele’s extra protection has to be in comparison to something in order to justify it. I’m saying that they’re not taking 40% less physical damage than a warrior because warrior base damage is 25% (x/920 vs x/1211) lower to start……… Some classes get physical damage reduction from toughness and others from protection so to say their health should be adjusted up to compensate for the lower physical damage they take doesn’t make sense……………………………… One can be stripped btw.

You’re still not addressing that every class has base attack damage for physical damage. No classes have base condi damage. Meaning that you’re not just introducing a hard counter you’re potentially eliminating thieves or pure physical classes. That doesn’t make sense. A condi necro still does some base physical damage and has a theoretical chance to break the 10% threshold. A thief zerker without some massive might boost could not possibly break the 10% threshold.

Additionally warrior has the highest base toughness and health. Ele breaks easily once you strip the protection and learn to interrupt the heals. It has counter play. Is it overall overpowered compared to average? Absolutely! Is introducing something several times worse going to improve the matter?

- Ele’s played well will have perma Protection. If you strip their Protection it can be instantly reapplied. So yes, assuming the damage reduction from Protection is there constantly is an option, especially for the classes that have no stripping. If we are comparing everything to fighting against a Rev, Warrior with IS is just as badly off. :/

- Warriors have to give up their health generation in order to gain Resistance, or the 3 seconds from Durability which is basically just a Block at that rate. That’s called a trade-off. If you want to create a “gold standard” then the Resistance we can assume is going to be stripped, and then they are in for a world of hurt with no healing and no Condi defense. Your complaint should be with Stances, in which case my response would be “They can already become completely immune, this just saves them a single utility slot.”

- The purpose of “Effective Health” is to combine Toughness (which all classes have) and damage modifiers for calculating how much damage is needed from a base mechanic in order to deplete that health. It’s common practice because it is accurate.

- There’s no real Warrior meta build so let me pick what was used previously… Marauder. Cele ele has higher Toughness than a Marauder Warrior. Toughness means so little unless it comes from an amulet.

- You’re right, it’s almost as if it counters a whole genre :O. Zero additional power damage is as useless against a DS Ele as zero additional condi damage would be against a IS Warrior. They are both next to useless. I could sit there with Necro Scepter trying to kill a DS Ele and they wouldn’t even have to pay attention. If you go through and look at base damages from condi/hybrid skills, the condi is often more potent than the power damage if left uncleansed.

- Warrior already breaks easily and would be just as easy to break after IS, it is literally the worst profession in the game for PvP right now. Your last point is moot.