Guild Wars 2

in a game where you can have a 10k hp elementalist build and a 28k hp warrior build, balancing burst can be kinda difficult.

that 6k burst on the elementalist is devestating while the warrior just shrugs and keeps on trucking.

Now i do think that if you spec glass cannon you should be at risk for twitch kills. but perhaps not to such a degree.

i propose a sort of soft standardization of health pools in pvp. not straight equalization, but simply a tuning. maybe a glass cannon elementalist has 15k hp instead for example.

obviously some damage needs to be tuned, but it will be quite hard with such a wide hp gap in this game.

just at hought, feel free to disagree

I agree somewhat. I think there needs to be more catering to middle-ground builds. The fact for example Vitality, scales differently by class it really skews the system. If a thief for example wants to build for a balanced build, they are still only gonna truck around 15k maybe 16k hp. Where an 80% offensive (glass) Warrior build can have 20-21k if not a few thousand more……
seems kind of silly

Knyx.5926:

If a thief for example wants to build for a balanced build, they are still only gonna truck around 15k maybe 16k hp. Where an 80% offensive (glass) Warrior build can have 20-21k if not a few thousand more……
seems kind of silly

Yet the thief has 3-4x the actual mitigation than the warrior. Evasion/dodging are the real mitigation mechanics in GW2, armor is meaningless. A thief has evasion tied to his attacks, perma-vigor pretty much and target dropping through stealth mechanics as well. A warrior… well, he blocks with his face.

Now, I actually would be happy to endorse some kind of hp normalization as long as classes are given equal mitigation/evasion mechanics as well.

Perhaps much much shorter cooldowns on warrior blocking mechanics for instance (reactionary blocking rather than silly 3-second delay the inevitable style that shield has now)

3-4x? thats straight up wrong.

we have evasion tied to certain attacks, depending on weapon spec and build. not all.

perma vigor is a very specific spec that does mainly condition damage. msot thieves get about 3 dodges

i wish i could find these fabled 30/30/30/30/30 thieves people talk about.

but yes if thise were changed mitigation for each class would also need looking at.

Knyx.5926:

I agree somewhat. I think there needs to be more catering to middle-ground builds. The fact for example Vitality, scales differently by class it really skews the system. If a thief for example wants to build for a balanced build, they are still only gonna truck around 15k maybe 16k hp. Where an 80% offensive (glass) Warrior build can have 20-21k if not a few thousand more……
seems kind of silly

Not to mention the 20k HP glass cannon warrior can still put out more dps than the 10k HP glass cannon elementalist / necro

that brings up another thought etherfreeze, damage of ranged vs melee…its not as cut and dry since percieved ranged calsses and percieved melee classes have melee.ranged options.

should melee do more damage then ranged? should it be even? how big should the gap be?

etherfreeze.6834:

Knyx.5926:

I agree somewhat. I think there needs to be more catering to middle-ground builds. The fact for example Vitality, scales differently by class it really skews the system. If a thief for example wants to build for a balanced build, they are still only gonna truck around 15k maybe 16k hp. Where an 80% offensive (glass) Warrior build can have 20-21k if not a few thousand more……
seems kind of silly

Not to mention the 20k HP glass cannon warrior can still put out more dps than the 10k HP glass cannon elementalist / necro

Cause in a parallel universe melee and ranged combat are the same…

Arkwind.3780:

Cause in a parallel universe melee and ranged combat are the same…

Cause you know, Warriors don’t have access to Rifels at all. And there’s no such thing as a Dagger/Dagger elementalist.

On topic:

I’m iffy on normalizing health pools so much. Keep in mind that Elementalists have some of the best health regeneration and damage mitigation abilities in the game outside stealth (which isn’t damage mitigation, it’s an avoidance ability. I can avoid damage on my elementalist as well.) So having them more vunlerable to burst might be conceived trade-off.

Still, I find a lot of these issues to be more concerned with the way pendants work in this game as the core part of builds. We may see an adjustment there, rather than to individual profession builds.

Wolfe.3097:

in a game where you can have a 10k hp elementalist build and a 28k hp warrior build, balancing burst can be kinda difficult.

that 6k burst on the elementalist is devestating while the warrior just shrugs and keeps on trucking.

Now i do think that if you spec glass cannon you should be at risk for twitch kills. but perhaps not to such a degree.

i propose a sort of soft standardization of health pools in pvp. not straight equalization, but simply a tuning. maybe a glass cannon elementalist has 15k hp instead for example.

obviously some damage needs to be tuned, but it will be quite hard with such a wide hp gap in this game.

just at hought, feel free to disagree

Maybe i should play around with an elementalist a little more, but a 10k health pool?! That seems absurd, in respect to your trait build and rune selection. 10k is some easy meat lol

I have SPvPed with a Necro at 14,000 health and 20,000+ health. The gear options are there. Higher health = lower damage. This trade off already exists.

Wolfe.3097:

3-4x? thats straight up wrong.

we have evasion tied to certain attacks, depending on weapon spec and build. not all.

perma vigor is a very specific spec that does mainly condition damage. msot thieves get about 3 dodges

20 points in acro provides 2x dodges than normal, most thieves I see in tourney’s take it.

HS, PW, and DB provide evasion while attacking (consequently the main spammable attack for those builds as well).

Stealth every 3 seconds causing target dropping (yes aoe damage still works).

3-4x mitigation is probably on the conservative side tbh when compared to warriors “block with face” mitigation technique.

@braxxus, HS does NOT provide any evasion whatsoever during its leap animation or any other part of it.

stealth should cause target dropping, i mean..you cant see him anymore, you cant target him.

and again 3-4x is straight up wrong whether you have a case of grass is greener or not. damage avoidance=/=mitigation.

as for 20 points in acro, then they arent that many points in stealth, and if they are, then they arent a glass cannon thief, in fact would be kinda low in damage. also it gives you one more dodge after two dodges. not two (the minor trait 15 points into acro)

20 points in acro…means a lot for a build. a lot for what it will and wont be able to do. but im curious what builds (complete builds, if youve seen 20 poitns in acro youve seen the rest of the build) you face often in tpvp? ill illustrate there strengths and weaknesses for you. since you must not know much about thieves if you think HS has evasion and feline grace allows 2 dodges instead of its 1.

Arkwind.3780:

etherfreeze.6834:

Knyx.5926:

I agree somewhat. I think there needs to be more catering to middle-ground builds. The fact for example Vitality, scales differently by class it really skews the system. If a thief for example wants to build for a balanced build, they are still only gonna truck around 15k maybe 16k hp. Where an 80% offensive (glass) Warrior build can have 20-21k if not a few thousand more……
seems kind of silly

Not to mention the 20k HP glass cannon warrior can still put out more dps than the 10k HP glass cannon elementalist / necro

Cause in a parallel universe melee and ranged combat are the same…

Yes and melee elementalists have less spike than melee warriors with half the HP.

Knyx.5926:

I agree somewhat. I think there needs to be more catering to middle-ground builds. The fact for example Vitality, scales differently by class it really skews the system. If a thief for example wants to build for a balanced build, they are still only gonna truck around 15k maybe 16k hp. Where an 80% offensive (glass) Warrior build can have 20-21k if not a few thousand more……
seems kind of silly

Vitality doesn’t scale differently by class. 100 vitality = 1000 hps for any class.

Seether.7285:

Knyx.5926:

I agree somewhat. I think there needs to be more catering to middle-ground builds. The fact for example Vitality, scales differently by class it really skews the system. If a thief for example wants to build for a balanced build, they are still only gonna truck around 15k maybe 16k hp. Where an 80% offensive (glass) Warrior build can have 20-21k if not a few thousand more……
seems kind of silly

Vitality doesn’t scale differently by class. 100 vitality = 1000 hps for any class.

i think he meant base hp

Big difference between Warrior and Ele, though. Eles still can get around 5k~ HP in heals with Valk or Clerics ammy, and almost all of their primary damage abilities are AoE. Never mind the ease in stacking AoE Might with combo fields. Warriors can’t get nearly as much regen or healing, even if they use a healing ammy, simply because they lack the extra healing skills, and while they do attack in a cone like everyone else, it’s not quite the same as the AoEs Eles have. Dagger Fire 4, Dagger Earth 2, 5, and probably another I’m forgetting all have large AoEs.

You can’t really compare two classes side-by-side like that. Should an Elementalist be able to dish out as much damage as a Warrior if they run 15k HP and 600-800 healing like I do? I don’t know, the healing has group applications with certain traits, and skills, plus if I play correctly I can have an effective 25k or even 30k HP pool simply because of the amount of healing I pack. With the build I use, I still crit for 5k on fire grab. Personally, I think Eles are in a decent spot numbers-wise, but they REALLY need bug fixes, and some animation changes because the majority of their damage is laughably easy to avoid.

Also consider the idea that if our large AoEs were able to crit for 8k, that might be a huge advantage in PvP. Perhaps making D/D more single/cone like a Warrior, with the bug fixes and animations would be appropriate? Hard to say.

This isn’t a 1v1 game. There are a lot more factors and variables than health pools.

Irascible.8210:

This isn’t a 1v1 game. There are a lot more factors and variables than health pools.

wasnt meant to be a universal fix

Seether.7285:

Vitality doesn’t scale differently by class. 100 vitality = 1000 hps for any class.

An elementalist adding 500 vitality gets ~50% to his health. A warrior doing the same only gets ~30%.

That means that if a tank warrior is balanced with a tank elementalist, then a glass cannon warrior can be assumed to be stronger than a glass cannon elementalist.

@Wildclaw : Well, the base stats are different (therefore the hp), but what the warriors have base hp, they need to put in damage. I’m pretty sure the total amount of stats is the same for every class.

so if every class has basic stats equalized, BUT every class has HIS OWN “growing stat ratio” would it be good or bad?
or
if every class has basic stats equalized, AND every class has THE SAME “growing stat ratio” would it be good or bad?

@Shukran : Every class has basic stats equalized and the same growing stat ratio currently. The only difference reside in the basic stats that are differently distributed. Basically, the op is whining about classes being different. Which seems silly, especially when they’re talking about warrior, which is considered as the worst pvp class (at high level, so if you’re having difficulty dealing with it, learn to play).