Guild Wars 2

if you are smart you can blind the warrior or block the 8k damage. All you can do vs the ranger is reduce it to 4k and in 8 sec you have to try it again.

With the immob from elite, the pets and muddy terrain the dodge is very easy :/

gartz.7013:

so this is what it feels like for a bunker engi to get killed in 2 seconds vrs 1 person?

If you got killed by a power ranger in 2 secs you’re quite noob yknow. I faced many power ranger and they’re only strong when it comes to 2 V 1. 1 V 1 power ranger can nvr kill me, I fear condition ranger more. As bunker engi you have very high protection uptime, 1 reflection and 1 block, it is more than enough to handle power ranger if it’s just one of them.

Xiroth.9517:

Caedmon.6798:

IcerXx.3670:

I love all the tears, rangers are SUPPOSED to be the strongest ranged combatants, we rely on our pets, and given the kitten poor AI and lack of useful controls for the pets, we’re significantly missing our peak performance, but oh hey, rangers are finally what EVERY OTHER CLASS WAS, FOR 2 kittenING YEARS, BETTER NERF THEM AGAIN.

Every other class can pew pew pew people in 3 hits ? What game have you been playing ? On a more serious note,there is something terribly wrong with the dmg output from rangers ( Think back to the pet dmg increase patch,that got nerfed really fast )..in this case,they just messed up..yet again.

Really mitigate it down to 4k? From a ranged class. And that’s balance?

This is the most OP, no skilled class I have seen since beastmaster huntards.

Played 3 matches today on mine, really I had little memory of what the skills do, just knew 1 was shoot and 2 was mega shoot and proceeded to get top kills in every match. Died twice. Only used my heal skill about 5 times. It was simply silly. Reminded me of when I’d play WOW and just feign death in the grass while my pet got top damage and kills.

I’m guessing you’ve never been backstabbed for over 7k, or hit by a warrior for over 8k… do you even PvP?

At least with rapid fire you can dodge roll the 2nd half of it to mitigate the damage down to around 4k. It’s not that hard.

Relentliss.2170:

Xiroth.9517:

Caedmon.6798:

IcerXx.3670:

I love all the tears, rangers are SUPPOSED to be the strongest ranged combatants, we rely on our pets, and given the kitten poor AI and lack of useful controls for the pets, we’re significantly missing our peak performance, but oh hey, rangers are finally what EVERY OTHER CLASS WAS, FOR 2 kittenING YEARS, BETTER NERF THEM AGAIN.

Every other class can pew pew pew people in 3 hits ? What game have you been playing ? On a more serious note,there is something terribly wrong with the dmg output from rangers ( Think back to the pet dmg increase patch,that got nerfed really fast )..in this case,they just messed up..yet again.

I’m guessing you’ve never been backstabbed for over 7k, or hit by a warrior for over 8k… do you even PvP?

At least with rapid fire you can dodge roll the 2nd half of it to mitigate the damage down to around 4k. It’s not that hard.

Really mitigate it down to 4k? From a ranged class. And that’s balance?

This is the most OP, no skilled class I have seen since beastmaster huntards.

Played 3 matches today on mine, really I had little memory of what the skills do, just knew 1 was shoot and 2 was mega shoot and proceeded to get top kills in every match. Died twice. Only used my heal skill about 5 times. It was simply silly. Reminded me of when I’d play WOW and just feign death in the grass while my pet got top damage and kills.

I honestly think they buffed the WRONG aspect of power ranger, tbh. Rangers were always the most annoying turret in the game that could snipe out anyone if left to free-cast, although not burst from range. As I play the spec myself more, I see they really are pretty underwhelming when your opponent gets into melee range (at least when using GS or S/D, in my experience). Now rangers are even MORE ANNOYING turrets that can just wreck anyone from range, and slightly better (although still lacking) in melee options.

The ranged burst is stupid, and the spec is pretty braindead to play in that capacity. It could, however, use a little more sustained dps in melee, although I still need to play around with the utils some more.

Lupanic.6502:

if you are smart you can blind the warrior or block the 8k damage. All you can do vs the ranger is reduce it to 4k and in 8 sec you have to try it again.

With the immob from elite, the pets and muddy terrain the dodge is very easy :/

Ok..

Because everyone seems to be missing their brain today we are going to go over a skill effect called reflect.

Reflect is a combat mechanic that returns incoming projectile attacks to their source, including all properties of the projectiles; the original target is unaffected by a reflected attack. However, reflected attacks do not count as hits and will not trigger hit-based effects, such as on-hit sigil effects. Unblockable projectiles cannot be reflected.

For example, if a ranger attacks a foe using the longbow’s Rapid Fire, the arrows will be reflected back at the ranger. If any hit, the ranger will be damaged and be affected by vulnerability; the target will not.

Each projectile can only be reflected twice, after which they will go through any further reflecting effects unless they can also block projectiles.

You can
A- Dodge. mitigating the majority of the barrage or
B- Reflect…and kill the ranger..

C. Play a thief and sneeze in the general direction of the ranger.
I can guarantee you they are zerker’s

D. Load them up with conditions. Because killing a ranger with condition damage is really
REALLY easy.

My thief’s ranged burst is still higher than ranger.
I don’t understand your complains.

Adding on to Solari’s list, blocks, evades, and invulnerability all still work just as well against ranged attacks as they do against melee. Better, in fact, in the case of blocks. Retaliation still hits a longbow ranger pretty hard, especially since their burst is composed of multiple smaller bursts hitting in quick succession. Protection still mitigates it. As does the good ol’ Toughness stat.

There’s also line of sight which basically gives you free blocks just for standing in the right place. Then there’s also projectile destruction that is basically a second type of block especially made for ranged damage. You can still get out of a ranger’s attack range to avoid damage, it’s just more difficult than it is with melee weapons. Of course, longbow does less damage the closer you get to the ranger too, so either direction can reduce incoming damage.

Fact is you can stop ranged damage just as easily as melee. Easier actually, given you have two extra mechanics specifically designed to counter ranged attacks and a greater impact of terrain advantages. With as many gap closers as there are in the game no one should be hard pressed to catch a longbow ranger unless said longbow ranger is very skilled.

Solori.6025:

Lupanic.6502:

if you are smart you can blind the warrior or block the 8k damage. All you can do vs the ranger is reduce it to 4k and in 8 sec you have to try it again.

With the immob from elite, the pets and muddy terrain the dodge is very easy :/

Ok..

Because everyone seems to be missing their brain today we are going to go over a skill effect called reflect.

Reflect is a combat mechanic that returns incoming projectile attacks to their source, including all properties of the projectiles; the original target is unaffected by a reflected attack. However, reflected attacks do not count as hits and will not trigger hit-based effects, such as on-hit sigil effects. Unblockable projectiles cannot be reflected.

For example, if a ranger attacks a foe using the longbow’s Rapid Fire, the arrows will be reflected back at the ranger. If any hit, the ranger will be damaged and be affected by vulnerability; the target will not.

Each projectile can only be reflected twice, after which they will go through any further reflecting effects unless they can also block projectiles.

You can
A- Dodge. mitigating the majority of the barrage or
B- Reflect…and kill the ranger..

C. Play a thief and sneeze in the general direction of the ranger.
I can guarantee you they are zerker’s

D. Load them up with conditions. Because killing a ranger with condition damage is really
REALLY easy.

because the ranger is brain dead correct? How many arrows are reflected until the ranger cancel his attacks? 1 of 10 ? 2 ? It is a dream that a ranger is killing himself. If he does he is so bad that you do not need reflect to kill him because he is so bad.

Lupanic.6502:

because the ranger is brain dead correct? How many arrows are reflected until the ranger cancel his attacks? 1 of 10 ? 2 ? It is a dream that a ranger is killing himself. If he does he is so bad that you do not need reflect to kill him because he is so bad.

So you admit that for the duration of the reflect the ranger cannot attack you. Seems like counterplay to me.

I never said there is no counterplay. Personally I am happy that long bow player have now a build.

BTW seriously, stop saying it “just decreasing time, total damge is the same”.

If 100b animation completed in 0.5 seconds with unchanged damage that would be also ok by this logic?

Again, by the same logic, quickness is a really underwhelming effect, all it does is decrease you action times! total damage is the same for individual skills!

IcerXx.3670:

I love all the tears, rangers are SUPPOSED to be the strongest ranged combatants, we rely on our pets, and given the kitten poor AI and lack of useful controls for the pets, we’re significantly missing our peak performance, but oh hey, rangers are finally what EVERY OTHER CLASS WAS, FOR 2 kittenING YEARS, BETTER NERF THEM AGAIN.

Funny, Thieves are supposed to be the heavy spike damage class, but it didn’t stop everyone QQing and getting them nerfed into the ground does it. It’s nice seeing other classes trying to defend themselves from the same trash they dished out.

BlackBeard.2873:

It could, however, use a little more sustained dps in melee, although I still need to play around with the utils some more.

Pet?

Static.9841:

Funny, Thieves are supposed to be the heavy spike damage class, but it didn’t stop everyone QQing and getting them nerfed into the ground does it. It’s nice seeing other classes trying to defend themselves from the same trash they dished out.

When did thieves get nerfed to the ground? All I see now is 2 builds that are equally viable for the Thief, one of which is extremely good at killing the Ranger.

I don’t think rangers are that much a problem in spvp/tpvp due the clumped nature of the maps, but WvWvW has lots of open fields. Thus the recent influx of longbow rangers in roaming.

Longbow with eagle eye trait actually hits further than the 1500 range listed in the tool tip. It feels to be around 1800 range. The burst and damage is simply too much considering the range. Adjust the range and it will be fine. I know you can reflect, block, use stealth, shadowsteps etc to close in, but if couple of enemy rangers focus fire you at 1800 most players are going down fast without having much opportunity to counter play.

Sure is a lot of whining going on about it… it bursts better, but it’s also easier to avoid more of the damage. The maximum damage output hasn’t changed.
http://i.imgur.com/lpw13ej.png

It doesn’t seem overpowered at all. And probably takes quite alot of skill to play well seen as it is so squishy.

So crying about it is not justified imo. Although that might change if I am missing something which is broken.

Elfindale.4836:

This ranger damage is not right.
half the casting time of rapid fire is wrong, you should have left it where it was.
now ranger virtually has no ramp up time.

I thought 30% of the ranger damage should be from the pet? The buff to the cast time is fine to me but it seems the damage is too high. If you compare it to another 2.5 secs channel 1,200 range attack, Warrior’s Volleg, the ranger’s RF does about 20-30% more damage.

When they reduced the cast time of RF from 5 to 2.5, they also increased the DPS by 38%. Before, you can use 2 RF within 18 secs (10 secs channel and 8 secs CD). Now, you can use 2 RF within 13 secs (5 secs channel and 8 secs CD). The DPS increase is about 38%.

It seems like to me we have a power creep that is not heathy for the game other than PvE.

The problem with the burst from ranger is not the damage, but the fact that it can be done from 1200+ range on a weapon that grants both stealth and knockback. Combine this with fear and knockdown from wolves and there’s no way to actually get to the ranger to do any damage. What’s worse is the ranger can use both signet of stone and “protect me” to maintain invulnerability. Using GS as a secondary weapon gives blocking, another knockback, stun, and mobility with very high damage.

To sum it up: 12s of invulnerability + knockbacks/fear/knockdowns + stealth + longer range than every other class is what makes the burst broken. There needs to be a balance between damage, survivabilty, and CC and opportunity cost.

Deniara Devious.3948:

but if couple of enemy rangers focus fire you at 1800 most players are going down fast without having much opportunity to counter play.

if you are attacked by multiple people specced to deal maximum damage YOU SHOULD DIE ALMOST INSTANTLY. If not, your setup is horribly OP.

Its like saying 2x DD zerker thief should not backstab you to death in 2 seconds flat. Wait, that is what they should do. This is balanced, as it is you vs 2 enemies that is fully specced into destroying you as fast as possible.

Longbow has so many counters that is is bordering ridiculous. I play LB/GS myself, did so since way way before patch and i am probably one of the better LB/GS zerker rangers you will find. However even when being well above average in terms of skill, i still get countered by several people, some need more clever tactics then others, but there is hard counters, and they work. They worked since before the patch, and they work now, after patch.

so to say to you all, like you’ve told the ranger community for the past 2 years when they were whining about thief DPS, warrior DPS, necro conditions, mesmer something, ele burst – LEARN TO PLAY. or get rekt in the process.

I used to like sPvP. Rank 39. Now I die almost instantly every fight I enter. I suppose if you are killing people instantly its “fun” for you, but frankly this isn’t a good change. PvP should entail strategy and fights that last more than a couple seconds.

Come on Anet, fix this – make it a fun game for everyone please.

Trybil.1567:

I used to like sPvP. Rank 39. Now I die almost instantly every fight I enter. I suppose if you are killing people instantly its “fun” for you, but frankly this isn’t a good change. PvP should entail strategy and fights that last more than a couple seconds.

Come on Anet, fix this – make it a fun game for everyone please.

so, following your definition of “fun”…. watching a regen ranger and medi guard duke it out for over an hour would be fun?

because i did that with a mediguard (was a private arena, so no time limit)…. IT WAS NOT FUN. It was stupid pride getting in our way. Guess what happened? 1 hour 12 minutes in, we shook hands and agreed NEVER to duel with those setups again.

If you die in less then 1 second to any glasscannon, be it ranger or backstab thief or KS warrior, you yourself is not good enough to counter these builds. Thus you yourself is “removing the fun”.

Do you think i enjoy rolling a glassbow ranger and pewpew people in 1 sec flat? No, its boring and i wish they would leave PvP so some real enemies could be queued up with me.

What i want as a glassbow LB/GS ranger is someone or something with 2 braincells, able to fight me head on and give me a run for my money. Yet you know what? Iv’e yet to find anyone.

My build has not changed, the damage output has NOT changed. It is absolutely the same. Sure i can deal more of my damage faster then before, but not more damage in one attack.
People haven’t realized, god knows how, that rangers could do this exact thing, FOR TWO YEARS ALREADY. They never bothered to take notice or even care. This is your own arrogance and ignorance that has come to bite you.

Prysin.8542:

Trybil.1567:

I used to like sPvP. Rank 39. Now I die almost instantly every fight I enter. I suppose if you are killing people instantly its “fun” for you, but frankly this isn’t a good change. PvP should entail strategy and fights that last more than a couple seconds.

Come on Anet, fix this – make it a fun game for everyone please.

so, following your definition of “fun”…. watching a regen ranger and medi guard duke it out for over an hour would be fun?

because i did that with a mediguard (was a private arena, so no time limit)…. IT WAS NOT FUN. It was stupid pride getting in our way. Guess what happened? 1 hour 12 minutes in, we shook hands and agreed NEVER to duel with those setups again.

If you die in less then 1 second to any glasscannon, be it ranger or backstab thief or KS warrior, you yourself is not good enough to counter these builds. Thus you yourself is “removing the fun”.

Do you think i enjoy rolling a glassbow ranger and pewpew people in 1 sec flat? No, its boring and i wish they would leave PvP so some real enemies could be queued up with me.

What i want as a glassbow LB/GS ranger is someone or something with 2 braincells, able to fight me head on and give me a run for my money. Yet you know what? Iv’e yet to find anyone.

My build has not changed, the damage output has NOT changed. It is absolutely the same. Sure i can deal more of my damage faster then before, but not more damage in one attack.
People haven’t realized, god knows how, that rangers could do this exact thing, FOR TWO YEARS ALREADY. They never bothered to take notice or even care. This is your own arrogance and ignorance that has come to bite you.

I did’t know ranger could shot RF within 1.25 secs while procing both fire and air sigils for the past two years. /shrug

I believe the best they could do was a 3.75 secs with QZ (not 100% sure; could be 2.5 secs). Your overall damage output has increase since it takes 2.5 secs less for RF to CD after using it. .

Rangers are really annoying right now,but at least its PvP so you can get in their face easier. This longbow epidemic is much more annoying in WvW, where groups of 2-3 rangers will insta-down you beofre their name loads above their head.

Too bad both classes I play don’t have any blocks or reflects, I don’t know how to deal with it in a berserker build. (my dire thief is fine of course).

I don’t know if they’re “OP” yet, but it sucks getting lit up from 1500range

Solandri.9640:

PhantomClutch.7825:

Just so I understand.

Everyone defending agrees its ok to do 20k+ damage

Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

An exotic longbow has 1000 average base damage.
Rapid Fire’s cumulative skill coefficient is 3.75.
Assume the target’s armor is 1800.
Assume Steady Focus (10% extra damage when endurance full).
Assume Eagle Eye (5% extra damage for longbow). Means no Spotter.
Assume Hunter’s tactics (10% extra damage when flanking).
Assume Peak Strength (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Scholar runes (10% extra damage when hp over 90%).
Assume Sigil of Force (5% extra damage).
Assume Sigil of Bloodlust (250 extra power).
Assume 10% vulnerability from Opening Strike (5% + avg 5% from RF)

All those assumptions mandate a 45500 build. Outfitting it with exotic berserker’s armor and ascended berserker’s trinkets yields:
2355 power
51% crit chance
222% crit damage

1000 (2355+250) *3.75 *(1+0.51(2.22-1)) *(1+.1+.1+.1+.05+.05) *1.1 / 1800 = 13,558 damage

Methinks 20k damage from RF is a teensy bit of an exaggeration. I left out food and sharpening stone, but I think it’s pretty clear damage is nowhere near 20k. Maybe if someone else were giving you 25 stacks of might, fury, warrior banners, you might be able to hit 20k. But then you’re not facing a solo ranger, you’re facing a team who is working together to gank you.

to someone in 1.25s (if haste works how I believe it does) just because someone didn’t evade?

No, quickness does not work like that. It used to speed up attacks 100% (halved their time). But that got nerfed down to 50% last year (ranger DPS was hardest hit by that nerf, and they got the least compensation because some of their quickness didn’t get duration extensions).

2.5s becomes 2.5/1.5 = 1.67 sec.

People posting must be bad, it’s rangers did not get a 10% dps buff, they got alot more than 10%. Shortening LB2 by 50% means a straight up 50% dps increase, because you take less time to go through it.

RF wasn’t shorted by 50%. It went from 4 and a half to 2.5s. It was shortened by 44%.

And bear in mind that prior to this change, RF used to do just 93% the DPS of longbow’s autoattack.

Ranger longbow autoattack @ max range is .9/1 = 0.9 coeff/sec
Rapid Fire is 3.75/2.5 = 1.5 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.67

Warrior GS autoattack is (.77+.7+.9)/2.5 = 0.948 coeff/sec
100 blades is 5.5/3.5 = 1.57 coeff/sec
Ratio = 1.66

Warrior rifle autoattack is .4/.96 = .417 coeff/sec
Volley is 3.0/2.5 = 1.2 coeff/sec
Ratio = 2.88

You really think RF’s extra DPS is out of line for a burst skill?

Also you’re forgetting the free grandmaster trait given to every range using signets, you don’t even need to trait for it, all signets now affect you too.

You mean the change that made signets work for rangers exactly like they’ve always worked for every profession except ranger? You’re trying to say that rangers deserved to have inferior signets compared to every other profession, and so bringing them up to par to everyone else is somehow doing rangers a favor?

Forestgreen.7981:

Also I said 50% damage increase on LB 2 skill specifically, not for the long bow in general. Note rangers got a straight up BUFF, and from what I saw no nerfs on a kitten thing to level the playing field.

RF does exactly the same damage as it did before. It’s just been compressed from 4.5 sec to 2.5 sec. That is, it’s DPS was increased 44%. It’s damage is the same as before.

As a weapon, if you assume longbow autoattack fills in the gaps between RF and Barrage whenever their cooldowns are up, then:

Before:
4.8 coeff / 2.75 sec every 30 sec (Barrage)
3.75 coeff / 4.5 sec every 10 sec (Rapid Fire)
0.9 coeff / 1 sec (autoattack)
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 + .9*13.75) = 28.425 coeff / 30 sec

After:
4.8 coeff / 2.25 sec every 30 sec
3.75 coeff / 2.5 sec every 10 sec
0.9 coeff / 1 sec
= (4.8 + 3.75*3 +.9*19.75) = 33.825 coeff/30 sec

33.825 / 28.425 = 1.19 = 19% damage buff for longbow

taken from another thread.

All the math for Rapid fire.

Guess who doesnt need a list of buffs to do this damage and pops out from stealth

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

The only possible reason it could be considered over powered is the mere fact that it comes from range. Not the damage output itself.

I’m not taking a side here, I’m making a distinction. It will save you a lot of heartache in this debate if you realize this fact beforehand.

Relentliss.2170:

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

only when its buffed to high hell..
As the math depicts

my opinion on this is,
that you cant ignore ranger anymore in the fights as before the patch

now you need to pressure the ranger(in melee range) fast enough, or you die,
or maybe consider to use reflect skills, which were almost unused pre patch

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

only when its buffed to high hell..
As the math depicts

Ok my 100B might hit a target for 5k-7k… usually they are able to do something to stop some of it. And some of it is migigated by gear. Not to mention I actually had to put myself in harms way to do it.

The 2 skill on Longbow routinely hits every single person for 5k+. I am not sure how piercing works but it seems to slice through warriors and theives almost equally. See a person dodge once or twice then bam. And I can apply it from a very long way away.

Only a couple of classes have reflects.

This is like the WOW Huntard on steroids.

You want to keep the damage high then I would suggest lowering the range to 600-900. But I would still cut the damage by at least 10%.

100 Blows required a lot of factors to work correctly. This requires nothing but logging in.

Relentliss.2170:

Ok my 100B might hit a target for 5k-7k… usually they are able to do something to stop some of it. And some of it is migigated by gear. Not to mention I actually had to put myself in harms way to do it.

The 2 skill on Longbow routinely hits every single person for 5k+. I am not sure how piercing works but it seems to slice through warriors and theives almost equally. See a person dodge once or twice then bam. And I can apply it from a very long way away.

100 Blows required a lot of factors to work correctly. This requires nothing but logging in.

You can mitigate the Rapid Fire damage using all the same methods as Hundred Blades. It doesn’t go through blocks and doesn’t hit through evades. Rapid Fire is also mitigated by gear. So I’m not sure why you brought up those points as if Rapid Fire couldn’t be negated or mitigated. Additionally Rapid Fire makes the ranger vulnerable to reflect, which enough professions have to make it a viable threat to consider. Hundred Blades can’t be reflected back at you to hit you with your own burst. Projectile destruction is another unique way to negate Rapid Fire damage that doesn’t apply to melee attacks.

Piercing requires a master tier trait Piercing Arrows to work. The 1,500 range needs another master tier trait Eagle Eye, so you likely won’t see someone with both. Without Eagle Eye the longbow also misses out on a 10% damage increase, so if the arrows are piercing they aren’t hitting quite as hard. You also tend to need the grandmaster trait Read the Wind to have the projectile speed needed to hit a target at max range, without it a longbow’s attacks can pretty much be negated by strafing.

Rapid Fire also has a ten second cooldown to Hundred Blade’s eight seconds. To get the eight second cooldown the ranger needs the master tier trait Quickdraw in the Skirmishing line. So for a full efficiency longbow build you need to invest seven trait points into it, leaving almost nothing for defense.

Finally, lets not forget that Rapid Fire is a single target skill unless traited for piercing, which I’ve already shown reduces it’s single target capabilities and range. Hundred Blades is a cleave and is capable of hitting a clustered group by default, which means a potentially substantial increase in damage under ideal circumstances.

If you’re getting hit by Rapid Fire and eating the full amount of damage in a one on one fight against a longbow ranger who is only hitting 2 and auto attacking you’re not playing very well. A longbow ranger played well will be relying on their pet to crowd control the target to land their burst similar to a warrior using their own immobilizes to line up a Hundred Blades.

While it’s true warriors have to get into melee to land their burst they also have higher armor and health than a ranger even when built full glass, and their burst happens to be on one of the highest mobility weapons in the game. A ranger’s longbow has zero mobility on it, and has to get by only with a three second stealth (that can be dodged/blocked to ensure the stealth doesn’t trigger) and a knockback. Greatsword has both Whirling Attack and Rush on fairly short cooldowns to either close the gap with their target or turn around to disengage, as well as Bladetrail as a mid-range cripple.

The longbow’s defense is it’s range. Without that it’d be nothing more than a greatsword without the mobility. Both weapons have pros and cons that have to be considered when discussing balance, you can’t just say “Rapid Fire is a ranged Hundred Blades!” as if that makes the entire weapon overpowered.

Typical Gw2 community, they whine and cry for the new changes, yet they turn a blind eye and do not bother to understand why Ranger was one of the most discriminated class in game since launch. Previously a Warrior Signet of Healing can outheal RF by standing ideally at blocked terrain, isn’t that ridiculous?

I got no prob with the new RF and i applause Areana for the buff on Ranger.

Tips to the Whiners, just find some cover and odd angle, and you will be avoiding most of its attacks without even dodging.

Ehecatl.9172:

Relentliss.2170:

Ok my 100B might hit a target for 5k-7k… usually they are able to do something to stop some of it. And some of it is migigated by gear. Not to mention I actually had to put myself in harms way to do it.

The 2 skill on Longbow routinely hits every single person for 5k+. I am not sure how piercing works but it seems to slice through warriors and theives almost equally. See a person dodge once or twice then bam. And I can apply it from a very long way away.

100 Blows required a lot of factors to work correctly. This requires nothing but logging in.

You can mitigate the Rapid Fire damage using all the same methods as Hundred Blades. It doesn’t go through blocks and doesn’t hit through evades. Rapid Fire is also mitigated by gear. So I’m not sure why you brought up those points as if Rapid Fire couldn’t be negated or mitigated. Additionally Rapid Fire makes the ranger vulnerable to reflect, which enough professions have to make it a viable threat to consider. Hundred Blades can’t be reflected back at you to hit you with your own burst. Projectile destruction is another unique way to negate Rapid Fire damage that doesn’t apply to melee attacks.

Piercing requires a master tier trait Piercing Arrows to work. The 1,500 range needs another master tier trait Eagle Eye, so you likely won’t see someone with both. Without Eagle Eye the longbow also misses out on a 10% damage increase, so if the arrows are piercing they aren’t hitting quite as hard. You also tend to need the grandmaster trait Read the Wind to have the projectile speed needed to hit a target at max range, without it a longbow’s attacks can pretty much be negated by strafing.

Rapid Fire also has a ten second cooldown to Hundred Blade’s eight seconds. To get the eight second cooldown the ranger needs the master tier trait Quickdraw in the Skirmishing line. So for a full efficiency longbow build you need to invest seven trait points into it, leaving almost nothing for defense.

Finally, lets not forget that Rapid Fire is a single target skill unless traited for piercing, which I’ve already shown reduces it’s single target capabilities and range. Hundred Blades is a cleave and is capable of hitting a clustered group by default, which means a potentially substantial increase in damage under ideal circumstances.

If you’re getting hit by Rapid Fire and eating the full amount of damage in a one on one fight against a longbow ranger who is only hitting 2 and auto attacking you’re not playing very well. A longbow ranger played well will be relying on their pet to crowd control the target to land their burst similar to a warrior using their own immobilizes to line up a Hundred Blades.

While it’s true warriors have to get into melee to land their burst they also have higher armor and health than a ranger even when built full glass, and their burst happens to be on one of the highest mobility weapons in the game. A ranger’s longbow has zero mobility on it, and has to get by only with a three second stealth (that can be dodged/blocked to ensure the stealth doesn’t trigger) and a knockback. Greatsword has both Whirling Attack and Rush on fairly short cooldowns to either close the gap with their target or turn around to disengage, as well as Bladetrail as a mid-range cripple.

The longbow’s defense is it’s range. Without that it’d be nothing more than a greatsword without the mobility. Both weapons have pros and cons that have to be considered when discussing balance, you can’t just say “Rapid Fire is a ranged Hundred Blades!” as if that makes the entire weapon overpowered.

….all of this….

All

OF

IT

Relentliss.2170:

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

only when its buffed to high hell..
As the math depicts

Only a couple of classes have reflects.

Last time I checked only 2 classes don’t have reflects.

You are running out of arguements aren’t you.

Math proves you wrong.

Scenerio’s prove you wrong

and the fact all but 2 classes have some way to reflect or destroy projectiles…

pretty much makes this a losing arguement.

Can’t wait till people start realizing that medi guard is pretty much a hard counter.

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

only when its buffed to high hell..
As the math depicts

Only a couple of classes have reflects.

Last time I checked only 2 classes don’t have reflects.

You are running out of arguements aren’t you.

Math proves you wrong.

Scenerio’s prove you wrong

and the fact all but 2 classes have some way to reflect or destroy projectiles…

pretty much makes this a losing arguement.

Can’t wait till people start realizing that medi guard is pretty much a hard counter.

Unlike some I do not buy into it was UP for a while now its OP and that is fine. In fact the last patch the balance was not bad at all. Every class had a spec and counter. I was quite enjoying pvp and even Ranger was pretty effective then.

I play a lot of classes and reflect is not really part of any build. Nor do I see it much. Having reflect skills somewhere in your tree and actually being able to spec them or have them be useful are all different things.

I simply chew through whoever I face now. It’s not remotely skillful. I wait till they engage with someone then find a nice spot push #2, the death button, and kill them. By the time they get to me they are dead.

Even running a power build, my Ranger is reasonably tanky… I have protection up a lot of the time… same with regen. Not to mention how with all its slows it is really difficult for anyone to engage for a serious length of time.

I am glad you are happy with your Ranger being OP, but tbh its pretty pathetic.

And yes the damage you can achieve in game situations with RF is on par with 100Bl only you do so with no risk.

I just trash talk them after I beat them now. It’s no skill bullkitten so they should feel bad playing and losing with it. Some of the perches rangers can find to attack from are ridiculous. Ranger isn’t OP unless they take advantage of terrain, then they’re gods.

Lopez.7369:

Rangers are extremely overrated. Dodging literally counters them.

This.

It’s literally a one trick pony.

People incapable of dealing with such a mechanic are incapable of making good balance decisions and have poor balance perspective in general (something that is effective in lower tiers where most of the populations lies isn’t necessarily effective in higher tiers).

Always comes back to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Rapid Fire IS the E. Honda slap.

Prysin.8542:

It sucks doesn’kitten Having ridiculed a class and the people playing it for nearly 2 years, and when they finally is given the ability to instagib you, like anyone else, you realize you got no clue how to fight the class as you never took it seriously.

I hear you on that, and I’ve read a lot of your comments before So I know you’re competent. I even used some of your advice to improve my ranger. However, I play as an engineer in sPvP and I’m used to winning most 1v1s vs all classes (no I’m not a turret engineer). Now what happens in a 1v1 scenario with a ranger is I’ll down them, but I’ll get hit by a powerful down skill or lingering conditions and if that happens, I’m done. nothing I can do in my down state can keep a ranger from rallying quickly and getting back up to finish me. It was okay before because I could dominate most rangers. Now if I get too low, I can’t stomp. I have to pack a shield or two to deal with long range shot opener into rapid fire into rooting or canine knockdown into barrage.

I’m okay with instagibs, but those usually involve a weapon swap or two, a transformation, an attunement swap or cycling some kits. Rangers currently don’t have to swap or really think. Just pop some signets and longbow longbow longbow. I know the meta is shifting (if not crashing) but this may be a bit too much to give to a long range class. If I’m in a 1v1 and a ranger shows up, the fight is over in seconds.

If Anet won’t scale some of these balance changes back (not just ranger) do you think we can rise to the occasion to deal with it?

robertul.3679:

Yes but rangers fall to pieces if you get in their melee range. They can hiltbash you and use the kick on the block but then they are basically useless. Also the condition removal is pretty bad unless they trait for empatic bond.

That’s not actually true. Zero damage signet popped and your return fire or melee damage is useless. All the while their beast can get a cc or a 3-4k attack off on you while they’re free attack without taking damage. They’ve got a lot of tools. Serious range and auto-attack, free buffs upon signet use, serious damage mitigation, and a top-tier down-state. All that and they honestly don’t have to weapon swap if they don’t want to. I’ll learn how to beat them, but it’s a strange day in me-land when I have to brainstorm up counterplay for the ranger class.

Relentliss.2170:

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

Solori.6025:

Relentliss.2170:

It’s basically 100 blades at range. Oo

only when its buffed to high hell..
As the math depicts

Only a couple of classes have reflects.

Last time I checked only 2 classes don’t have reflects.

You are running out of arguements aren’t you.

Math proves you wrong.

Scenerio’s prove you wrong

and the fact all but 2 classes have some way to reflect or destroy projectiles…

pretty much makes this a losing arguement.

Can’t wait till people start realizing that medi guard is pretty much a hard counter.

I play a lot of classes and reflect is not really part of any build.

Because there was never a reason to use it before.

That’s the thing.

Dodge or reflect or both.

Every class that has one CAN fit in a reflect or projectile destruction
Hell some classes have them on weapons.

Again.

With the math provided.
The only way you are going to get100b damage is staying at range. With a crap ton of buffs.

Secondly.
Are you aware that every class has a move or a combo of burst that hits for 5k+

and some you can’t reliably dodge?

cough elementalist cough

johnsonade.9547:

robertul.3679:

Yes but rangers fall to pieces if you get in their melee range. They can hiltbash you and use the kick on the block but then they are basically useless. Also the condition removal is pretty bad unless they trait for empatic bond.

That’s not actually true. Zero damage signet popped and your return fire or melee damage is useless.

How did u deal with the warrior balance stance?

All the while their beast can get a cc or a 3-4k attack off on you while they’re free attack without taking damage. They’ve got a lot of tools. Serious range and auto-attack, free buffs upon signet use, serious damage mitigation, and a top-tier down-state. All that and they honestly don’t have to weapon swap if they don’t want to. I’ll learn how to beat them, but it’s a strange day in me-land when I have to brainstorm up counterplay for the ranger class.

You are an engineer…
reflect and condi spam -= win.

Solori.6025:

johnsonade.9547:

robertul.3679:

Yes but rangers fall to pieces if you get in their melee range. They can hiltbash you and use the kick on the block but then they are basically useless. Also the condition removal is pretty bad unless they trait for empatic bond.

That’s not actually true. Zero damage signet popped and your return fire or melee damage is useless.

How did u deal with the warrior balance stance?

All the while their beast can get a cc or a 3-4k attack off on you while they’re free attack without taking damage. They’ve got a lot of tools. Serious range and auto-attack, free buffs upon signet use, serious damage mitigation, and a top-tier down-state. All that and they honestly don’t have to weapon swap if they don’t want to. I’ll learn how to beat them, but it’s a strange day in me-land when I have to brainstorm up counterplay for the ranger class.

You are an engineer…
reflect and condi spam -= win.

Just saying, it’s a lie to say that rangers fold up once you get into melee range. I have to deal with ranger in melee like I deal with warrior balance stance now but warriors are more dumb and limited. I could kite them and keep out of their AA range while keeping a point contested and watching their stance icons flicker. Rangers can tank you while pet CC’s or they can pop the signet and barrage you without fear. The cripple doesn’t do much for proper kiting. I’ll adapt but I see a lot of people minimizing and making excuses for OP stuff. Enjoy it while you can if that’s your class, but I definitely wasn’t happy about it when decap engis and turret engi meta popped up, and I’m not going to act like what’s going on with ranger class is okay just because they’ve been the most looked down upon for so long.

As far as reflect + condi spam = win, I’m a power engineer that packs rifle. I can do a condi-spam build, but that doesn’t work against eles and necros, so now I’ve got some things to figure out if I have to deal with ranger ganks (that doesn’t even look right with me typing it). Power builds with pistol-shield don’t really work, but rifle can go hybrid and still be effective. It’ll be a task but I’ll come up with something. In the meantime, maybe don’t give advice if you don’t really know.

johnsonade.9547:

Just saying, it’s a lie to say that rangers fold up once you get into melee range

Do you know what longbow does?

. I have to deal with ranger in melee like I deal with warrior balance stance now but warriors are more dumb and limited. I could kite them and keep out of their AA range while keeping a point contested and watching their stance icons flicker. Rangers can tank you while pet CC’s or they can pop the signet and barrage you without fear. The cripple doesn’t do much for proper kiting.

? They are just like warriors but WITHOUT the condition immunity
(unless the sit in there healing spring in which case, pull them out?)

The AI is dumb, and initiates an attack as soon as its " in range " path flares.
In which case a strafe will make it miss, while you load the ranger with condi’s
and reflect
reflect is important.

I’ll adapt but I see a lot of people minimizing and making excuses for OP stuff. Enjoy it while you can if that’s your class, but I definitely wasn’t happy about it when decap engis and turret engi meta popped up, and I’m not going to act like what’s going on with ranger class is okay just because they’ve been the most looked down upon for so long.

Guess what isn’t going away..
Turrent and decap engie’s

As far as reflect + condi spam = win, I’m a power engineer that packs rifle. I can do a condi-spam build, but that doesn’t work against eles and necros, so now I’ve got some things to figure out if I have to deal with ranger ganks (that doesn’t even look right with me typing it). Power builds with pistol-shield don’t really work, but rifle can go hybrid and still be effective. It’ll be a task but I’ll come up with something. In the meantime, maybe don’t give advice if you don’t really know.

So…
you have a choice.
Be weak against one and strong against the other..

I…
I think that is balance…
I’m pretty sure that is the definition of balance.

Maybe in the meantime..
You can learn your class and not complain about something you have the counter to?

Then people like myself who have been playing said class and other’s wont have to come and offer you advice on how to deal with a gimmick

Get #rekt.

Sniff, sniff I smell people who ignored pew pew before.

Now, just wait 2 more weeks. Once the “SotH, QZ, SotW RF yolo” fades, fotm rollers jump back on other professions, truly dangerous players will come out and get through yours butts like Hannibal through Alpes.

Solori.6025:

johnsonade.9547:

Just saying, it’s a lie to say that rangers fold up once you get into melee range

Do you know what longbow does?

. I have to deal with ranger in melee like I deal with warrior balance stance now but warriors are more dumb and limited. I could kite them and keep out of their AA range while keeping a point contested and watching their stance icons flicker. Rangers can tank you while pet CC’s or they can pop the signet and barrage you without fear. The cripple doesn’t do much for proper kiting.

? They are just like warriors but WITHOUT the condition immunity
(unless the sit in there healing spring in which case, pull them out?)

The AI is dumb, and initiates an attack as soon as its " in range " path flares.
In which case a strafe will make it miss, while you load the ranger with condi’s
and reflect
reflect is important.

I’ll adapt but I see a lot of people minimizing and making excuses for OP stuff. Enjoy it while you can if that’s your class, but I definitely wasn’t happy about it when decap engis and turret engi meta popped up, and I’m not going to act like what’s going on with ranger class is okay just because they’ve been the most looked down upon for so long.

Guess what isn’t going away..
Turrent and decap engie’s

As far as reflect + condi spam = win, I’m a power engineer that packs rifle. I can do a condi-spam build, but that doesn’t work against eles and necros, so now I’ve got some things to figure out if I have to deal with ranger ganks (that doesn’t even look right with me typing it). Power builds with pistol-shield don’t really work, but rifle can go hybrid and still be effective. It’ll be a task but I’ll come up with something. In the meantime, maybe don’t give advice if you don’t really know.

So…
you have a choice.
Be weak against one and strong against the other..

I…
I think that is balance…
I’m pretty sure that is the definition of balance.

Maybe in the meantime..
You can learn your class and not complain about something you have the counter to?

Then people like myself who have been playing said class and other’s wont have to come and offer you advice on how to deal with a gimmick

No friend. you don’t have to give me advice! You never had to! You can just go roll yourself up and sleep if I’m being honest.

? Or maybe you can put some more condescending question marks at the beginning and end of your sentences???

I mean are you saying that now longbow suddenly misses in melee range? If I dodge the pet, double dodge barrage, block or reflect RF and after all that come up with a magical third dodge that evades LRS or a rooting elite. This somehow means I can contest a point all while blowing these crucial cooldowns and the ranger is still strafing, sitting pretty and pondering a weapon swap. No one is talking about dumb rangers. I have condi-bombed them, even with a power build. I’m saying on equal footing if a decent ranger engages with these upgraded tools, I have to come up with a plan for them. That’s why I’m in this thread. If you’re going to help, actually help. But if you don’t know sh about my class or what I have to sacrifice in my build to make something competitive then maybe you should roll an engineer, get it to the top of the leaderboards and then tell me just how great mine can be. Or just play your class and enjoy the buffs. Until then, please have a hot cup of stf up.

edit: ???

Seems like izzy finally revived his belowed and long-missed build, the turret ranger!
Hf guys and dw, minor shaves to the skill will be coming in a few months (maybe), so there’s plenty of time to hone your skills against this new meta entrant.

Harbinger.8637:

Archaon.9524:

there’s literally a dps ranger’s invasion atm…just bring a reflect and you’re good to go…some of them are so reterded they just kill themselves instead of stop pew-pewing

Such ranger much dps

Don’t worry…dps ranger is not gonna be meta and probably is not gonna be any good in tpvp in general…just yolo mindless crap for hj so no real problem at all. You can los lb all day and pew pew alone with not enough survivability and sustain won’t do kitten in teamfight vs decent teams, after your invuln you’re just gonna be a dead ranger walking..just another troll crap suited for nabs in order to feel the real “hotjoin hero power” ..pretty much like turret engis…you won’t see them in top pvp anyway either because noone would play with a troll spec (Outside teams specifically made for trolling) and they have pretty much no team oriented roles (Like thief roaming and decapping far or mesmer with portal, turret engi can bunker a point but placing turrets just roots you there since you’re even more worthless without your AI crap, and being unable to move with a side bunker means you’re gonna end up 4v5 all the time…and this should never happen) so at the end of the day you’ll find yourself carrying those guys all match…they could be effective in soloq vs bad and not organized ppl maybe…but since noone cares bout soloq it’s still pointless