sPvP "Hot" Topics (aka Hotjoin Issues)

sPvP "Hot" Topics (aka Hotjoin Issues)

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Posted by: Zietlogik.6208

Zietlogik.6208

I was trying to join a random hotjoin match earlier today, and came across one of the things that tends to annoy the crap out of me when attempting to Hotjoin in sPvP…So I made a video to show my displeasure for some of the systems (or lack thereof) in the current iteration of GW2 sPvP, which includes:

  • Being placed into the same match over and over multiple times in a row (I’ve had it happen up to 5 times in a row, a 400-10 blowout)
  • Joining blowout matches (there needs to be a method or mechanic that detects the % difference in score, and lowers that server’s priority at a threshold)
  • Spectator mode abuse/issues/mechanic (Spectator needs to be locked, that’s it, it is TOO EASY TO ABUSE)
  • Autobalance issues (currently it takes the last joiners into the server, or those who volunteer, without taking into account participation)

Videoz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDJzFSZgOwg


Some older forum threads of some relevance:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stop-putting-me-back-into-the-same-match/first#post5001650

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Auto-Balance-merged/first#post4822950

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Needed-PvP-Tutorial-for-New-Players/first#post4794526

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/352va0/hotjoins_are_the_first_thing_a_new_pvp_player/


What would you change, or think would change, the overall hotjoin experience for the better?

Together, we can make all facets of sPvP an enjoyable experience! Work together!

Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]

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Posted by: hisorange.3957

hisorange.3957

Hotjoin is a place of betrayal and 500-0 but to avoid confusion you still call it hotjoin even tho it’s renamed to practice, and if you look at it as practice servers there is nothing wrong with them :O

Look at this way those wins / loses give no real amount of rank points it’s just a tenth of a (un)ranked match’s, you can join / leave cuz it’s there for practice, you can exp with builds, you can look around for map hitboxes / advantageous points, you can fun around in 1v1 without a least amount of care about the match’s outcome.

Practice servers are there for practice without real consequences of ruining a real match where no1 can leave while you trying out a fantasy build which will never work, peeps can learn the maps b4 taking a serious match, so just go and play (un)ranked, even tho that’s not a perfect place either but even ANet can’t do anything with the human factor of a game.

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

Let there be an account age threshold. If its a practice mode, then its a practice mode and newbies shouldn’t be facing dragons. At the same time, if a dragon wants to practice, practicing on keyboard turners accomplishes nothing, golems and duel servers would serve that purpose better. The whole concept of just jumping in makes no sense when the game mode is STILL structured PvP balanced around 5v5s. If, for instance, you’re in for a terribly imbalanced match, let there be a 15% buff to stats for every missing player on your team, going all the way to 60% if you’re the only guy. Since its hot join and not even unranked, there shouldn’t be any objections to something like this.

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Posted by: SchmendrickTheMagician.8247

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247

I don’t get all the hotjoin hate? Do you all play on US? Because my hotjoin experience on EU is actually pretty good besides the occasional team-switching for dailies.

To actually have FUN in hotjoin you need to stay on a server for more than a match, because from my experience only people actually wanting to play pvp – without waiting times – stay on a server. I’ve had SO MANY good and close matches in hotjoins, even recently, through this.

And if you play ~10 matches on a server with the same 6-7 people and a few “randoms” it’s almost like playing unranked with a pick-up-group, only you don’t have to wait for aeons between matches.

The only change I’d make to hotjoin is disallowing people from switching teams after their initial team choice (besides autobalancing of course).

Last of the Red Hot Swamis

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Posted by: Zietlogik.6208

Zietlogik.6208

I don’t get all the hotjoin hate? Do you all play on US? Because my hotjoin experience on EU is actually pretty good besides the occasional team-switching for dailies.

To actually have FUN in hotjoin you need to stay on a server for more than a match, because from my experience only people actually wanting to play pvp – without waiting times – stay on a server. I’ve had SO MANY good and close matches in hotjoins, even recently, through this.

And if you play ~10 matches on a server with the same 6-7 people and a few “randoms” it’s almost like playing unranked with a pick-up-group, only you don’t have to wait for aeons between matches.

The only change I’d make to hotjoin is disallowing people from switching teams after their initial team choice (besides autobalancing of course).

in NA a few things can happen that are not close games, they usually come down to blowout matches (which result in players jumping ship and emptying a server mid-way), people abuse autobalance, or people sit in spectator which forces uneven matches (4v5) because the server thinks they are active players in the server.

I have seen matches where my team would be ahead, but people lose a small skirmish or a brief triple cap happens, and all of a sudden it is down to 2 people left on my team (the mentality of “oh noes, they have all 3 caps, we auto-lose” is prevalent) even though the team is still ahead in points, and can simply recap.

Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]

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Posted by: Jugnificent.2061

Jugnificent.2061

If they would block people from overloading a team that is leading that would fix most of what is wrong with hotjoin. Force people to stay in spec for 5 minutes if they spectate and you get rid of most autobalance abuse. If a match is 4 v 5 with people sitting in spectate keep feeding autojoiners to that server until the match is full. In the server browser show how many are playing and how many are spectating. There, hotjoin is now mostly fixed. Why Arenanet won’t do any of this (especially my first suggestion) irks me to no end. I’ve gotten where I tend to avoid hotjoin (which is wise with how it is currently) but when practicing with a class I’m bad at I’d really rather be able to play on hotjoin without it always being a blowout one way or the other.

Floopster
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

You are wrong. Autobalancing is a symptom to the real problem. Autobalancing happens because the match was already imbalanced to begin with. You cannot autobalance a 5v5 game. But you can autobalance a 4v5 game(if you are in the smaller team).

The real cancer is team stacking. Players stack to the winning team which is indicated by who lost the first battle + who has the most points. Then one player joins the winning team and ruin the balance of these two teams. People will autobalance because their current team sucks. If they cannot autobalance, they will simply just go to another match.

The second problem is the time it takes to autobalance. Within 20-30 seconds, that team with the most members will have far more advantage than the weaker team. It will be a 5v3 or 4v2 for a while, making the losing team lose even more.

How can we fix this?

  • Reduce points to win at 200. Make it a quicker match. I don’t want to fight up hill battles all the time because my team sucks. At 200 points, the suffering will end quicker.
  • Autobalance either instantly or quicker. 3v5 will hurt the losing team if it continues this way.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

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Posted by: Zietlogik.6208

Zietlogik.6208

You are wrong. Autobalancing is a symptom to the real problem. Autobalancing happens because the match was already imbalanced to begin with. You cannot autobalance a 5v5 game. But you can autobalance a 4v5 game(if you are in the smaller team).

The real cancer is team stacking. Players stack to the winning team which is indicated by who lost the first battle + who has the most points. Then one player joins the winning team and ruin the balance of these two teams. People will autobalance because their current team sucks. If they cannot autobalance, they will simply just go to another match.

The second problem is the time it takes to autobalance. Within 20-30 seconds, that team with the most members will have far more advantage than the weaker team. It will be a 5v3 or 4v2 for a while, making the losing team lose even more.

How can we fix this?

  • Reduce points to win at 200. Make it a quicker match. I don’t want to fight up hill battles all the time because my team sucks. At 200 points, the suffering will end quicker.
  • Autobalance either instantly or quicker. 3v5 will hurt the losing team if it continues this way.

The problem still exists that autobalance is too easy to abuse with the current spectator system.

But the issue i foresee with instant autobalance, is that currently there is a “volunteer” effect for players looking for the free win/extra rank points. Those who aren’t paying attention to that, and get autobalanced (instantly) will just leave the team as soon as the game swaps them, creating another autobalance.

The main issue is the Spectator system, with the autobalance abuse being a side-effect

Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

You are wrong. Autobalancing is a symptom to the real problem. Autobalancing happens because the match was already imbalanced to begin with. You cannot autobalance a 5v5 game. But you can autobalance a 4v5 game(if you are in the smaller team).

The real cancer is team stacking. Players stack to the winning team which is indicated by who lost the first battle + who has the most points. Then one player joins the winning team and ruin the balance of these two teams. People will autobalance because their current team sucks. If they cannot autobalance, they will simply just go to another match.

The second problem is the time it takes to autobalance. Within 20-30 seconds, that team with the most members will have far more advantage than the weaker team. It will be a 5v3 or 4v2 for a while, making the losing team lose even more.

How can we fix this?

  • Reduce points to win at 200. Make it a quicker match. I don’t want to fight up hill battles all the time because my team sucks. At 200 points, the suffering will end quicker.
  • Autobalance either instantly or quicker. 3v5 will hurt the losing team if it continues this way.

The problem still exists that autobalance is too easy to abuse with the current spectator system.

But the issue i foresee with instant autobalance, is that currently there is a “volunteer” effect for players looking for the free win/extra rank points. Those who aren’t paying attention to that, and get autobalanced (instantly) will just leave the team as soon as the game swaps them, creating another autobalance.

The main issue is the Spectator system, with the autobalance abuse being a side-effect

Autobalance exist because teams are imbalanced, not the other way around. You can’t autobalance with a 5v5 even if you try. You can auto-balance in a 4v5.

Autobalance only affects people that are the last to join. If there is a autobalance war, it affect only the people who are looking to stack to the winning team or people attempting to autobalance. With the game ending faster, people will realize that the autobalance war is meaningless.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

(edited by runeblade.7514)

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Posted by: Chapell.1346

Chapell.1346

Some of you have no clue what hotjoin is meant for. soon enough you’ll understand, though I believe it has been started.

[Urge]
Between a master and apprentice, i would love to see the differences.

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Posted by: Zietlogik.6208

Zietlogik.6208

You are wrong. Autobalancing is a symptom to the real problem. Autobalancing happens because the match was already imbalanced to begin with. You cannot autobalance a 5v5 game. But you can autobalance a 4v5 game(if you are in the smaller team).

The real cancer is team stacking. Players stack to the winning team which is indicated by who lost the first battle + who has the most points. Then one player joins the winning team and ruin the balance of these two teams. People will autobalance because their current team sucks. If they cannot autobalance, they will simply just go to another match.

The second problem is the time it takes to autobalance. Within 20-30 seconds, that team with the most members will have far more advantage than the weaker team. It will be a 5v3 or 4v2 for a while, making the losing team lose even more.

How can we fix this?

  • Reduce points to win at 200. Make it a quicker match. I don’t want to fight up hill battles all the time because my team sucks. At 200 points, the suffering will end quicker.
  • Autobalance either instantly or quicker. 3v5 will hurt the losing team if it continues this way.

The problem still exists that autobalance is too easy to abuse with the current spectator system.

But the issue i foresee with instant autobalance, is that currently there is a “volunteer” effect for players looking for the free win/extra rank points. Those who aren’t paying attention to that, and get autobalanced (instantly) will just leave the team as soon as the game swaps them, creating another autobalance.

The main issue is the Spectator system, with the autobalance abuse being a side-effect

Autobalance exist because teams are imbalanced, not the other way around. You can’t autobalance with a 5v5 even if you try. You can auto-balance in a 4v5.

Autobalance only affects people that are the last to join. If there is a autobalance war, it affect only the people who are looking to stack to the winning team or people attempting to autobalance. With the game ending faster, people will realize that the autobalance war is meaningless.

You wouldn’t believe how easy it is to manipulate, you can make a 5v5 autobalance because of the current mindset of players. If you leave a 5v5 and enter spec, that 4v5 will deteriorate into a 3v5, that will then have an autobalance. When the autobalance occurs, you can “join the winning team” if the player who was autobalanced didnt hit volunteer, there is a good likelihood that they will also go into spectator mode, resulting in another uneven match, which then will either detoriate again, or someone will fill the slot and the autobalanced player will swap back to their original team.

Spectator mode is the primary issue, i’ve said this many times, but with it in place the way it is, you can VERY EASILY abuse the autobalance system. Hitting that volunteer button grants you a guaranteed win, and some extra rank, and depending on the current unbalance, you can force another autobalance and even get BACK onto your original team and still reap all the benefits.

You also have to take into consideration that if the server has 10 people in it (including spectators) it becomes a lower priority for the “play now” button which means that the chances of having an influx of players to join and prevent the autobalance is much lower (not gone, but lower)

Zietlogik [Warrior] Chronologix [Ranger] Ziet The Dreaded [Necromancer] Zietlogic [Revenant]

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

You are wrong. Autobalancing is a symptom to the real problem. Autobalancing happens because the match was already imbalanced to begin with. You cannot autobalance a 5v5 game. But you can autobalance a 4v5 game(if you are in the smaller team).

The real cancer is team stacking. Players stack to the winning team which is indicated by who lost the first battle + who has the most points. Then one player joins the winning team and ruin the balance of these two teams. People will autobalance because their current team sucks. If they cannot autobalance, they will simply just go to another match.

The second problem is the time it takes to autobalance. Within 20-30 seconds, that team with the most members will have far more advantage than the weaker team. It will be a 5v3 or 4v2 for a while, making the losing team lose even more.

How can we fix this?

  • Reduce points to win at 200. Make it a quicker match. I don’t want to fight up hill battles all the time because my team sucks. At 200 points, the suffering will end quicker.
  • Autobalance either instantly or quicker. 3v5 will hurt the losing team if it continues this way.

The problem still exists that autobalance is too easy to abuse with the current spectator system.

But the issue i foresee with instant autobalance, is that currently there is a “volunteer” effect for players looking for the free win/extra rank points. Those who aren’t paying attention to that, and get autobalanced (instantly) will just leave the team as soon as the game swaps them, creating another autobalance.

The main issue is the Spectator system, with the autobalance abuse being a side-effect

Autobalance exist because teams are imbalanced, not the other way around. You can’t autobalance with a 5v5 even if you try. You can auto-balance in a 4v5.

Autobalance only affects people that are the last to join. If there is a autobalance war, it affect only the people who are looking to stack to the winning team or people attempting to autobalance. With the game ending faster, people will realize that the autobalance war is meaningless.

You wouldn’t believe how easy it is to manipulate, you can make a 5v5 autobalance because of the current mindset of players. If you leave a 5v5 and enter spec, that 4v5 will deteriorate into a 3v5, that will then have an autobalance. When the autobalance occurs, you can “join the winning team” if the player who was autobalanced didnt hit volunteer, there is a good likelihood that they will also go into spectator mode, resulting in another uneven match, which then will either detoriate again, or someone will fill the slot and the autobalanced player will swap back to their original team.

Spectator mode is the primary issue, i’ve said this many times, but with it in place the way it is, you can VERY EASILY abuse the autobalance system. Hitting that volunteer button grants you a guaranteed win, and some extra rank, and depending on the current unbalance, you can force another autobalance and even get BACK onto your original team and still reap all the benefits.

You also have to take into consideration that if the server has 10 people in it (including spectators) it becomes a lower priority for the “play now” button which means that the chances of having an influx of players to join and prevent the autobalance is much lower (not gone, but lower)

You ignored my post.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant