Guild Wars 2

Stilgar.6437:

lets just wait for tuesday. i just cant believe that after all this fuss about ele (they even acknowleged its way too strong and will seriously work on it), they release the balance patch that lowers vigor uptime from 170% to 120%, keep burns the same (even buff them in many cases), add 3 secs to ashes and shave 2-3 stack of might. that all equals – exactly the same meta^2 ele as before, no difference whatsoever. Theres just no way they do that. They previewed the fire line, the real fixes that address the real problem – sustain, are coming on tuesday.

It has never been the devs intention to completely remove ele from GW2 who ever gave you that idea? :-)

They are even buffing scepter and that should make semi burst builds finally viable so…why do you even still complain?

Supreme.3164:

Stilgar.6437:

lets just wait for tuesday. i just cant believe that after all this fuss about ele (they even acknowleged its way too strong and will seriously work on it), they release the balance patch that lowers vigor uptime from 170% to 120%, keep burns the same (even buff them in many cases), add 3 secs to ashes and shave 2-3 stack of might. that all equals – exactly the same meta^2 ele as before, no difference whatsoever. Theres just no way they do that. They previewed the fire line, the real fixes that address the real problem – sustain, are coming on tuesday.

It has never been the devs intention to completely remove ele from GW2 who ever gave you that idea? :-)

They are even buffing scepter and that should make semi burst builds finally viable so…why do you even still complain?

Come on, do some people really think that all this (rightful) fuss about ele – 95% of the players agreed it was way too OP, 4+1 winning esl cup, WTS was won by a team double-stacking d/d ele, devs agreed, joked about their “fail” numerous times on the stream, million threads about it, first hand experience from every player that played more the 2-3 matches since the spec patch, fansite ridicule of the state of ele etc. etc.

Most overpowered spec of all time and it was so strong ONLY because it had 3 stacks might too many and 1/2s too long of a burn on a single skill out of like 8 different sources of burning. Thats it, those 2 things and 3s cd on blind made this “average” spec into the god that it is.
Now they loose those 3 stacks and 1/2s on one source of burning (compensated by a buff to RoF and its guaranteed burns) and all of a sudden – perfectly balanced, case closed, people wondering if its even viable.

Give me a break, How the f do other classes dont become unkillable demi-gods of everything in pvp when they get a random 3 stacks of might from somewhere or a random fire projectile finisher off.

The real fix will come tuesday. You can argue all you want that ele magicly balanced itself without meaningful nerfs, hoping to convince devs to delete the already implemented changes before tuesday, it wont happen. I still have some faith in the pvp-team, they didnt just ignore d/d ele and balanced random stuff instead.

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

Sure you do…

http://www.papatodd.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2014/07/Hypocrisy-Meter-Clean.jpg

Supreme.3164:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

Sure you do…

http://www.papatodd.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2014/07/Hypocrisy-Meter-Clean.jpg

Why did you link your own results?

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?

witcher.3197:

Supreme.3164:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

Sure you do…

http://www.papatodd.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2014/07/Hypocrisy-Meter-Clean.jpg

Why did you link your own results?

Why are you even still posting?..you’re just asking for nerf here and there, for a change you should tell us what is your idea of balance how would you create a game where every fight is 50/50

Chances are..you won’t ever answer this question…‘cause you can’t, no forum warrior ever did

Balance = “state of equilibrium” so..

Ele has too much sustain/damage? How much is enough against necros, mesmers, thieves, guard etc etc in order to maintain a so called “50/50” scenario at equal skill level?

I dare any forum warrior/armchair developer to answer this question, really for the last time anet doesn’t balance anything..they simply change things to calm the angry mob, any change made is always unrespectful of the skill level involved on both parties involved as your profession ( whichever it may be) take far less skill that you believe in a form or another you all rely on braindead mechanics ( stealth, insta burst with no tell, chainable invulnerability, chainable low Cd CC etc etc)

rotten.9753:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?

mmm…pretty much never xd

If s/d would become really viable then ..you know already the drill ^^ :" too much dmg for the sustain, QQ" and this would happen as soon as a s/d ele manage to kill a thief, mesmer or engy whatever.

Right now most try hard forum warriors will tell you that scepter fresh air is perfectly viable and 90% of them will tell you that they main fresh air ele and normally win 100% of their encounters against any class ( ofc do not except videos or whatnot to prove anything lol)

When a forum warrior tells you :" your class has viable builds", it means that he can personally beat all of them with min effort more than min effort and he’d be here asking for nerfs ..true story

P.S lol will save his message just in case….s/d ele become viable enough to kill his engi build..be ready for his fireworks later

Supreme.3164:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

Sure you do…

http://www.papatodd.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2014/07/Hypocrisy-Meter-Clean.jpg

haha, i dont hate the elementalist or have some agenda against its playerbase or whatever, its a class just like any other one. Played this game since launch, current d/d ele is the only build i ever complained about (maybe once about shoutbow at its peek, which was somewhat close to current ele), check my post history if you dont believe me. I dont care much about balance in general, come tuesday and full patch-notes, ill be back to playing pvp instead of posting here (pvp is unplayable atm, so i get my gw2-fix by posting here and browsing r/guildwars2).

As long as something is not so crazy OP as to win all fights by default and dominate the meta/matches as much as ele now does, i honestly dont care. Something is always a bit OP, i dont mind as long as i have a reasonable chance against it and as long as number of that build on teams isnt a bigger factor then skill.

As far as im concerned d/d ele can stay the strongest build in the game, if the nerfs they didnt mention close the gap to other classes a bit, good enough for me.

If this really is all, i will continue complaining until HoT launches, then ill have some awesome pve to play through and hopefully ele gets fixed before league season 2.

Khenzy.9348:

Meh, who cares. In less than a month from now you’re gonna see revenants/heralds, reapers and chronos all over the place drastically changing the meta, Eles are not going to be top dogs anymore.

and druids. healz y’all

Supreme.3164:

witcher.3197:

Supreme.3164:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

Sure you do…

http://www.papatodd.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2014/07/Hypocrisy-Meter-Clean.jpg

Why did you link your own results?

Why are you even still posting?..you’re just asking for nerf here and there, for a change you should tell us what is your idea of balance how would you create a game where every fight is 50/50

Chances are..you won’t ever answer this question…‘cause you can’t, no forum warrior ever did

Balance = “state of equilibrium” so..

Ele has too much sustain/damage? How much is enough against necros, mesmers, thieves, guard etc etc in order to maintain a so called “50/50” scenario at equal skill level?

I dare any forum warrior/armchair developer to answer this question, really for the last time anet doesn’t balance anything..they simply change things to calm the angry mob, any change made is always unrespectful of the skill level involved on both parties involved as your profession ( whichever it may be) take far less skill that you believe in a form or another you all rely on braindead mechanics ( stealth, insta burst with no tell, chainable invulnerability, chainable low Cd CC etc etc)

I could ask the same questions. People are giving voice to legit concerns and you keep answering with comments like “haters gonna hate”. You aren’t contributing to the discussion, you’re just afraid that your spec gets the nerfs it deserves and that makes you think the world is over.

How would I fix it? Reduce distance traveled of RtL while in combat, nerf vigor uptime from cantrips, revert the current ring of fire nerfs and instead increase the CD to ~25 seconds (this would reduce their might uptime as well as damage), and nerf the dodge on heal part of EA. There’s your answer – but what’s the point of answering? Anet will still do it their way.

rotten.9753:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?

When was the last time there was a build for any class that was considered viable but not op? Pretty much every build that becomes meta gets called face roll op unless it is just used purely for it’s utility (theif stealth/mobility, Mesmer portal, resbot guardian).

Supreme.3164:

witcher.3197:

Supreme.3164:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

Sure you do…

http://www.papatodd.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2014/07/Hypocrisy-Meter-Clean.jpg

Why did you link your own results?

Why are you even still posting?..you’re just asking for nerf here and there, for a change you should tell us what is your idea of balance how would you create a game where every fight is 50/50

Chances are..you won’t ever answer this question…‘cause you can’t, no forum warrior ever did

Balance = “state of equilibrium” so..

Ele has too much sustain/damage? How much is enough against necros, mesmers, thieves, guard etc etc in order to maintain a so called “50/50” scenario at equal skill level?

I dare any forum warrior/armchair developer to answer this question, really for the last time anet doesn’t balance anything..they simply change things to calm the angry mob, any change made is always unrespectful of the skill level involved on both parties involved as your profession ( whichever it may be) take far less skill that you believe in a form or another you all rely on braindead mechanics ( stealth, insta burst with no tell, chainable invulnerability, chainable low Cd CC etc etc)

Wow. You are still in fantasy world where eles are completely balanced.

ArthurDent.9538:

rotten.9753:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?

When was the last time there was a build for any class that was considered viable but not op? Pretty much every build that becomes meta gets called face roll op unless it is just used purely for it’s utility (theif stealth/mobility, Mesmer portal, resbot guardian).

Bunker guard had almost always been meta and never been op…just an example…

Saiyan.1704:

Khenzy.9348:

Meh, who cares. In less than a month from now you’re gonna see revenants/heralds, reapers and chronos all over the place drastically changing the meta, Eles are not going to be top dogs anymore.

D/D Cele Ele will still rotate faster, tank better and will still have a higher damage to sustain ratio.

I’m not so sure about that anymore…

Marauder Sword/Shield & Staff Revenant has a 1-second evade, a 2-second evade, and two 2-second blocks (one of which does more damage than Blurred Frenzy while the other one heals the Revenant) on top of a sustain and DPS heal in Legendary Assassin Stance and an anti-burst heal in Legendary Dragon Stance.

Let’s also not forget two stacks of stability on-dodge (1 of which lasts 2 seconds, the other lasting 5 seconds) or 100% critical chance with fury (5 seconds from swapping Legends, 10 seconds from using a heal skill, and 10 seconds from using a stun break [which can also be traited to proc on swapping Legends]).

What’s more, the Revenant also gets 3 seconds of protection when you actually manage to disable him, can keep weakness on you for 10 seconds every 30 seconds, receives 10% less damage from you outside of 360 range, and 10% even less damage from you when he’s below 75% health.

He also gains half a dodge every 10 seconds when struck, causes your physical hits and conditions to heal his downed allies, and breaks stun for allies within a 600-radius of himself when he uses a stun breaker.

Add Superior Sigils of Air and Energy, and you have a tanky DPS god that ArenaNet likes to call the Revenant:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemn3guNSuQ7JRboVlsP0rS4IaWJ4EdsklZlhdmc2RNgEawO6s/G-TJBFABiXGYhTBgO7PAwTAAA

^I definetly felt just as tanky as a D/D cele ele while on marauder’s and doing twice the damage, having just as much support and higher utility overall. Heralds are going to be stupid broken on release, but I just wont blame Anet, it’s one of the main selling points of the expansion, it’s a very common practice on MMOs (remember Death Knights and Paladins on Wotlk release?).

Some other elite specs are going to be pretty nasty, (we are waiting on how Druid and Scrapper will perform) we all know which are the other ones.

Sunshine.5014:

The nerf on Vigor is huge.
Blinding Ashes nerf is acceptable.
Ring of Fire only does 1 burning stack for 2s now, a huge nerf from 3 stacks for 5s.
Burning Fire nerf is huge.

Haters still gonna hate though.

of course, it took weeks to nerf Mesmers, and months to nerf Elementalists, and they are still viable. Anet need to nerf d/d Ele more.

I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again. It just needs it’s heal coefficients slightly nerfed. Just cut about 8% to 10% off the top of it’s current values and it would be on par with other classes. By cutting 8% to 10% of it’s heal coefficients, this would force an ele to be more attentive to it’s defensive phases than usual, which in turn forces it to peel more often and also in turn, would lower it’s DPS output because the ele wouldn’t be able to focus so much on the offense.

A simple fix that would render game changing results.
A fix that wouldn’t completely derange the ele play style.

hmm seems like they nerfed ele a bit. a huge portion of thier dps which was might stacking is pretty much gone. now that they can’t stack might while granting regen and protection and all other boons to themselves u will actually have an opening to strike them. now now ring that ring of fire burns you regardless of passing through it or not. finally rids you of having to stand there while you take thier burst. if they stil want thier insane dps uptime, they’d have to actually forgone the so called ‘’dreaded blinded ashes traitline’’ and go pyromancers puissance. this in turn actually is a big dent in their sustain.

So on top of a quite substantial dps nerf, their sustain is nerfed indirectly as well.

not that this matters to me tough. I honestly had no trouble with ele. but i definately would say this actually consitutes as an actual nerf.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

hmm seems like they nerfed ele a bit. a huge portion of thier dps which was might stacking is pretty much gone. now that they can’t stack might while granting regen and protection and all other boons to themselves u will actually have an opening to strike them. now now ring that ring of fire burns you regardless of passing through it or not. finally rids you of having to stand there while you take thier burst. if they stil want thier insane dps uptime, they’d have to actually forgone the so called ‘’dreaded blinded ashes traitline’’ and go pyromancers puissance. this in turn actually is a big dent in their sustain.

So on top of a quite substantial dps nerf, their sustain is nerfed indirectly as well.

not that this matters to me tough. I honestly had no trouble with ele. but i definately would say this actually consitutes as an actual nerf.

DD ele was able to stack 25 might before they added the cantrip might trait – it’s just going to be slower, but as sustain’s still the same, outlasting isn’t an issue for them.

Archaon.9524:

ArthurDent.9538:

rotten.9753:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?

When was the last time there was a build for any class that was considered viable but not op? Pretty much every build that becomes meta gets called face roll op unless it is just used purely for it’s utility (theif stealth/mobility, Mesmer portal, resbot guardian).

Bunker guard had almost always been meta and never been op…just an example…

How many time a bunker guard has won a WTS ?

Kicast.1459:

Archaon.9524:

ArthurDent.9538:

rotten.9753:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?

When was the last time there was a build for any class that was considered viable but not op? Pretty much every build that becomes meta gets called face roll op unless it is just used purely for it’s utility (theif stealth/mobility, Mesmer portal, resbot guardian).

Bunker guard had almost always been meta and never been op…just an example…

How many time a bunker guard has won a WTS ?

How many times has a thief won a WTS?

Belial.9350:

Kicast.1459:

Archaon.9524:

ArthurDent.9538:

rotten.9753:

Stilgar.6437:

I do hope s/d becomes viable and i do hope d/d ele remains viable.

When was the last time any ele build was viable, not underpowered or not overpowered?

When was the last time there was a build for any class that was considered viable but not op? Pretty much every build that becomes meta gets called face roll op unless it is just used purely for it’s utility (theif stealth/mobility, Mesmer portal, resbot guardian).

Bunker guard had almost always been meta and never been op…just an example…

How many time a bunker guard has won a WTS ?

How many times has a thief won a WTS?

Each time.
Glad to teach u somethin

nerfs were appropriate; D/D will still be useful, but it should be more in line with other builds.

I also like that they’re going to buff scepter, cuz especially the mightstacking nerf will hurt certain Scepter-builds quite a bit.

not too happy with the Ring of Fire changes…. It really isn’t that hard to not just walk through it multiple times and ppl that do it should be severely punished.

witcher.3197:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

hmm seems like they nerfed ele a bit. a huge portion of thier dps which was might stacking is pretty much gone. now that they can’t stack might while granting regen and protection and all other boons to themselves u will actually have an opening to strike them. now now ring that ring of fire burns you regardless of passing through it or not. finally rids you of having to stand there while you take thier burst. if they stil want thier insane dps uptime, they’d have to actually forgone the so called ‘’dreaded blinded ashes traitline’’ and go pyromancers puissance. this in turn actually is a big dent in their sustain.

So on top of a quite substantial dps nerf, their sustain is nerfed indirectly as well.

not that this matters to me tough. I honestly had no trouble with ele. but i definately would say this actually consitutes as an actual nerf.

DD ele was able to stack 25 might before they added the cantrip might trait – it’s just going to be slower, but as sustain’s still the same, outlasting isn’t an issue for them.

25 stack mights before the Sigil of Battle nerf, before boons duration nerf. Show me a video of you not using the Fire traits to get might and stack 25 mights and we’ll talk.

Sunshine.5014:

mistsim.2748:

Readymade.1672:

While replying to a guy who ends every forum post with “Haters gonna hate” is a terrible idea. Let’s disperse some of your ignorance.

1.The nerf to vigor on crit is not a nerf to sustain. Cantrips are enough vigor, and d/d eles will just switch to the Arcane Precision trait for extra burn/blind on crit as well as additional condi covers.

Nerf to Vigor (10s cd instead of 5s) will mostly impact DPS Ele builds as they relied on this trait for their only source of vigor.

2. No competent d/d ele blows cantrips just for Might. D/D Ele’s might-stacking comes from other sources (fire fields and easy access to multiple blast finishers) and will not be affected at all by this nerf.

D/D eles will still have 25 might, perhaps it’ll take them 5 seconds longer to get it without access to might on cantrips.

3. Let’s pretend no one noticed that Dragon’s Breath used to be 2s per stack and was “unnerfed” in a recent patch. D/D ele was still meta with 2s of burn per stack.

It’s frankly just a great skill with amazing pressure to bait out dodges/punish those without condi clear, and it takes little to no ability to land.

this guy gets it.

3) Over 3s cast + animation, how much is the DPS for Drake Breath now? Would it be higher than a Warrior auto attack for 3s?

Lol so hard, it’s TANK CLASS and drake’s breath is doing so much damage for a TANK CLASS. Learn principles.

Even if a Warrior is hitting 2ks every auto-attack, drake’s breath is still superior because d/d ele sustain takes NO SKILL. Why should a tank build have reliable damage? At least Warrior damage you can simply stay 131-171 range away from but then you have d/d ele which has reliable range and DAMAGE FOR A TANK CLASS. It’s also easier to land your damage on a Warrior considering you can’t passive blind someone in a 1v1 and 1v1s matter in this game.

Once again, learn principles. D/D ele will still be meta after Tuesday because they still have zero skill damage application for a tank class. Like they didn’t even touch fire grab’s or burning speed’s POWER DAMAGE yet those skills don’t even take any skill to land.

They need to take a hit in water and arcane too other than fire. As for other weapon sets, should get buffs to base damage.
IE nerf traits (water and arcane) buff other weapon sets (scepter)

These nerfs are enough. D/D ele won’t be so OP anymore, but it still will be a playable build. That’s the purpose. With more nerfs D/D ele build could disappear entirely.

lilz shorty.1879:

when it’s apparent they don’t listen to us about balance.

hundreds of ideas are thrown at them daily by different players, if they listened to all the personal ideas of balance from players then the game would be a mess as each players skill determines the perspective of what is OP and needs balancing.

Hvaran.6327:

the nerf will not change eles place in meta

it wasn’t aimed to push eles out of the meta, just gring them down from the disgusting godlike level they were. I mean mobility AND damage AND sustain all togheter? Da hell?
Much needed changes. Wanna Damage? go staff or scepter. DD is a sustain/mobility build and such must be.

witcher.3197:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

hmm seems like they nerfed ele a bit. a huge portion of thier dps which was might stacking is pretty much gone. now that they can’t stack might while granting regen and protection and all other boons to themselves u will actually have an opening to strike them. now now ring that ring of fire burns you regardless of passing through it or not. finally rids you of having to stand there while you take thier burst. if they stil want thier insane dps uptime, they’d have to actually forgone the so called ‘’dreaded blinded ashes traitline’’ and go pyromancers puissance. this in turn actually is a big dent in their sustain.

So on top of a quite substantial dps nerf, their sustain is nerfed indirectly as well.

not that this matters to me tough. I honestly had no trouble with ele. but i definately would say this actually consitutes as an actual nerf.

DD ele was able to stack 25 might before they added the cantrip might trait – it’s just going to be slower, but as sustain’s still the same, outlasting isn’t an issue for them.

ah my bad, however my point still stands: might stacking is slower. which in turn would still indirectly affect thier overal sustain. as in they cannot apply as much pressure as quickly as before. imagine you bieng able to heal, but then on top of that ready your next dps burst much quicker. it’d be a neverending cycle of them bieng able to keep up the pressure while heal simultaneosly. this surpassed the guardians ability to block and stack might and burn on block. which is still an traitline dependent on said condition bieng filled. this nerf however would provide you with more of an opening. they cannot just go on thier water attunement anymore, heal up and get kittenloads of might stacks thanks to their cantrips. this time, if they need to heal they will actually be healing.

I still think that is a good nerf.

edit: it seems Sunshine is disagreeing about the 25 might stacks pre cantrip nerf. oh well, so i might be right on that account. however slower or non existent, it’s still quite a hit in their dps. and if Sunshine is right, they’’d potentially still have to forgoe the blinding ashes traitline which would affect their sustain indirectly.

WOW people…

WAKE UP! That’s 12 stacks of might the ele loses out on!

Good lord! This is a major nerf! Stop whining.

The nerf was not intended to make them fall out of meta, just get them to a level where they don’t have everything going for them.

the problem i see is every time an ele talks about a build being viable it means it must be over the top or nothing……… not gg i lost because i made a mistake and you caught me on it, no it must be gg i lost because i went afk for 20 minutes.

sd will never be viable unless they can hit a couple of buttons and win most of the time or 90% kill the opponent and then have an oh kitten button/combo/passive that always saves them so they can finish the job thats viability in ele eyes.

i have seen streamers play with current zerker ele specs and they were just like a normal zerker class. They let a thief sneak up and basi backstab them and almost die that is their fault, you should not survive that with hardly a scratch. but on the flip-side an unchecked zerker ele can end a fight fast.

Velimere.7685:

cut

They also dying to conditions just by looking at them as they have no ways on it own to clean anything, espesially in your build. Anything with condi wipes floor with them if they run double melee which is a huge mistake in the first place as there is no reason to mix these weapons up. Your damage and sustain will also be a bit lower as youre not speeced for dps line. And lastly – to get 2 stab on dodge rev has to sacrifice 2 traitlines. And retribution is not all that great right now espesially with the nerf to protection on cc.

But its just a typical whining over something new.. rev may take thief spot, but they wont replace ele anytime soon unless they nerf eles more.

Burtnik.5218:

cut

I never had any problems with conditions on my Revenant seeing as Infuse Light works exactly the same as Defiant Stance yet lasts 4 seconds instead of 3 seconds.

Also, who the hell is whining? You? I for one absolutely love playing my Revenant.