Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first#post5904942

seems like everyone forgot what Gaile said a month ago.

“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range.

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

Ultimately, this means that the new matchmaking changes will make PvP Leagues much more reflective of your actual skill, and each division will be progressively more difficult to compete in."

tl; dr
noobs will get placed together with noobs and get rekted
pros will get placed together with pros and rekt noobs

stop complaining about the match making.
i lost 5 games in a row, i’m not complaining.

the better players will graduate from amber faster then the rest of us can duke it out at one another until we all graduate from amber.

I mean, when your first game you loose 500-0 Because you got queued against 4 reapers with voice comms and 2 teammates d/c, and then you get placed with idiots who full rush beast for every other game, there might be a problem there…

I queue and play against diamond and legendary players in unranked(in premades that we make before matches), but I only made it to emerald last season because I started halfway through, and all the good player had moved on, so it was literaly 50/50 wether I won or lost games, regardless of if I played my best, which I did every game.

As a result, I start season with low mmr, which means that I need to try to carry people. When I loose a game, my mmr drops, so I get paired with consistently worse players, repeating the cycle until all of the good players are one and I’m stuck in the same place as before

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

I mean, when your first game you loose 500-0 Because you got queued against 4 reapers with voice comms and 2 teammates d/c, and then you get placed with idiots who full rush beast for every other game, there might be a problem there…

I queue and play against diamond and legendary players in unranked(in premades that we make before matches), but I only made it to emerald last season because I started halfway through, and all the good player had moved on, so it was literaly 50/50 wether I won or lost games, regardless of if I played my best, which I did every game.

As a result, I start season with low mmr, which means that I need to try to carry people. When I loose a game, my mmr drops, so I get paired with consistently worse players, repeating the cycle until all of the good players are one and I’m stuck in the same place as before

You are getting matched with people your skill level as teammates you aren’t being asked to carry anyone because how are you going to carry people that are roughly as good as you are? Whether people agree with the changes or not you should at least try to understand how it works.

The phrase “Better to be lucky than good”

if you get lucky in your initial games (team mates, DC’s on enemy team, whatever), then you MMR will increase and you will get progressively better team mates. Which snowballs to the (pros wreck noobs).

Conversely if you are unlucky in your initial games. (your team mates DC or you get internet lag or simply get enemy teams with voice comms), you will get matched with progressively worse team mates. Now you will get wrecked more.

the thing is brannigan, it doesnt take into account my mmr when building the other team. This means that we could literally be queued against abjured for the forst game of pvp. We would lose, and as a result our mmr would drop, resulting in garbage situations such as this. Basically if you get lucky on the first match, and get queued with a good team, you get started on a track in which you get queued with better teammates, and then you start curbstomping people, and the opposite is true if you start off queued with a bad team. How is this hard to understand?

bump

as people still think MMR is not used.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

I guess I’m God-level then, since I went from amber to sapphire in ~3h winning all matches but one.
TBH I really don’t think MMR has the correct weight into determing opponents, because in the 25 games I’ve played 24 of them felt like hotjoin.

Frenk.5917:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

I guess I’m God-level then, since I went from amber to sapphire in ~3h winning all matches but one.
TBH I really don’t think MMR has the correct weight into determing opponents, because in the 25 games I’ve played 24 of them felt like hotjoin.

Well it’s not used at all to determine opponents. I think that’s perfectly fine. You’re obviously just not supposed to be in Amber, Emerald or Sapphire league.

Spartacus.3192:

The phrase “Better to be lucky than good”

if you get lucky in your initial games (team mates, DC’s on enemy team, whatever), then you MMR will increase and you will get progressively better team mates. Which snowballs to the (pros wreck noobs).

Conversely if you are unlucky in your initial games. (your team mates DC or you get internet lag or simply get enemy teams with voice comms), you will get matched with progressively worse team mates. Now you will get wrecked more.

How is this even ok?

Its not OK. Its a bit like RL ….
the lucky ones with a good start will progress fast and maybe go throuh the first two divisions within a few hours.
The unlucky that lost at the start will have to fight hard to make their way up and might need weeks for the same …
Yes it will settle divisions on player skill in the long run, but the way up might be extreamly diffrent….

Anomaly.7612:

Spartacus.3192:

The phrase “Better to be lucky than good”

if you get lucky in your initial games (team mates, DC’s on enemy team, whatever), then you MMR will increase and you will get progressively better team mates. Which snowballs to the (pros wreck noobs).

Conversely if you are unlucky in your initial games. (your team mates DC or you get internet lag or simply get enemy teams with voice comms), you will get matched with progressively worse team mates. Now you will get wrecked more.

How is this even ok?

It will only be true until all the good players move up the divisions. A team with one good player and four bad players should still beat a team of five bad players most of the time, and if you can’t do that, find some bloody team mates to queue with. It’s a team game.

Also, it’s a hell of a lot better than last season where people tanked their MMR and farmed scrubs to progress and divisions didn’t matter because you always faced people with similar MMR to yourself, regardless of where you stood. This season actually rewards high MMR, and the old season punished it. How was that OK?

Is it a perfect system? No. Personally I’d prefer it if you could always lose pips and drop divisions after Amber. It might do with some tweaking in general, I don’t know. No one knows. It’s been two days. People need to chill the kitten out and stop whining until we see how it pans out over time.

Wolfric.9380:

Its not OK. Its a bit like RL ….
the lucky ones with a good start will progress fast and maybe go throuh the first two divisions within a few hours.
The unlucky that lost at the start will have to fight hard to make their way up and might need weeks for the same …
Yes it will settle divisions on player skill in the long run, but the way up might be extreamly diffrent….

Sounds like this will be the case. I think my MMR is now so low I would be better playing with bots than some of my recent team mates.

I am not sure I need a game to be just like RL. That isn’t the point of a game for me.

… people seem still not getting it – which is kind of a-nets fault, because no one really knows how the system defines ones skill-level because of not showing it.

But finally the intention of the new system is clear (at least to me):

1. You won’t get carried out of your misery forever just because you get paired with better players than you are.
2. You won’t have to carry players out of their misery forever because you get paired with worse players than you are.

How does that work?

Divisions actually DIVIDE playerbase skillwise (not now, but in a few days it will be more obvious).

If you want to move up through division, you actually have to get better, which means (as you are matched with players the same skill level) that you have to improve your personal skill, helping your team to win, raise your MMR and thus get paired with slightly more skilled players.

If you are not good enough to do that, you obviously belong into that division.

The division system is not meant to be ANOTHER REWARD PATH allowing yout to move up TILL LEGENDARY LOOT-TIERS without personal effort

This system only has two obvious “flaws” right now:

A) right now there have been done too few matches for everyone to let the MMR-algorithm clearly define, with whom you should get paired with – that will eventually sort out in the next days.

B) GW2-PvP-playerbase is really small for a system like Glicko-MMR to be really relieable – if no one queues the same time with you, you will eventually get, what is out there – with strong deviation to your skill level (up and down).

As GW2 is really CASUAL, the mass of weak PvP-players is much more bigger than the “mass” of strong players – thus giving you more morons in your team with higher probability.

Either that or the MMR-algorithm would have you waiting 4 hours to get a game.

B) is almost solely in the hand of a-net and their development-decisions – nothing you can do kitten about.

So I have a suggestion here for all those players out there experiencing bad teammates and lots of losses:

Just play until your 3rd loss in a row. Then stop playing for some time ranked (more than a few minutes, usually a day is fine).
You only lost maximum 3 pips in the new league system.
Come back the other day, it is more likely to win now, as the playerbase is another one than when you were starting to get losses.
You are more likely bound to earn a win now (statistics).
You will gain 2 pips.

Do the math: you made 4 matches, lost 3 matches and 3 pips, won 1 match and 2 pips, only lost 1 pip in conclusion.
Not that bad, don’t you think?!

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

the thing is brannigan, it doesnt take into account my mmr when building the other team. This means that we could literally be queued against abjured for the forst game of pvp. We would lose, and as a result our mmr would drop, resulting in garbage situations such as this. Basically if you get lucky on the first match, and get queued with a good team, you get started on a track in which you get queued with better teammates, and then you start curbstomping people, and the opposite is true if you start off queued with a bad team. How is this hard to understand?

As far as I know, MMR has not been reset for the new season, nor it did for the previous one.
All but new players are starting the season with a MMR value acquired through months of play.

On top of that, MMR variations based on the outcome of any match are tightly tied to how even the match is.
For example, if you are at 1500 MMR and Abjured is at, lets say, 1900, a loss against them would weight roughly about 5-6 times less than a win or loss against a team around your own 1500 rating.
For a 1100 MMR player, losing against The Abjured would weight about 50 times less than an even match.

Even if in small doses, the new system can definitely tank down low MMRs and push high MMRs up for a noticeable score at the beginning of every season, and that could cause some problems in the long run.
The idea around your fate being heavily determined by the outcome of the first season match is, however, completely wrong (as long as there has not been MMR and deviation resets).

I think, you can even gain higher MMR from defeats, if you score better than expected. So a lost game doesn’t neccessarily mean a disadvantage for further games. At least that’s how it should be.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I think, you can even gain higher MMR from defeats, if you score better than expected. So a lost game doesn’t neccessarily mean a disadvantage for further games. At least that’s how it should be.

Glicko algorythm can’t do that unless it has been heavily modified.
It’s a system used for chess after all, and there’s nothing like a score there AFAIK.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range.

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

Ultimately, this means that the new matchmaking changes will make PvP Leagues much more reflective of your actual skill, and each division will be progressively more difficult to compete in."

Really? What it looks like is that they are doing the opposite to good matchmaking in order to move better players through quicker, on what planet is that good?

What happens in diamond / legend, so Helseth (for sake of an assumed high MMR example) queues at 12 AM, then the next 4 highest MMR people in his pip range get put in his team because teams are made on MMR, they then get matched against some other guy who is at a similar pip range and has a lower MMR than Helseth and therefore his teamates have a lower MMR and you get a crappy one sided match even in Diamond / Legend.

What sort of kittened “matchmaking” system works on the basis of doing the complete opposite to matchmaking, by stacking one side? And remember that is not just going to happen at top level that is going to happen at every level of the game, laughable non-matchmaking.

I mean if PvP had a playerbase the size of DOTA 2 or something then it could work, but this is a game that often can’t even find a 5 man team for opponents when 5 ESL players queue as a team.

zinkz.7045:

snip

I would assume that if they made it to legendary with this system in the first place, MMR largely won’t matter.

Pakkazull.6894:

zinkz.7045:

snip

I would assume that, if they made it to legendary with this system in the first place, MMR largely won’t matter.

Why? It is still a grindfest, players other than the best will make it to legendary once the best players leave diamond, the playerbase is still tiny so even within divisions the matchmaking will struggle to find good matches (which will then be made worse by stacking the strongest players on one team), and like I said this will happen at every level of the game, not just legendary, how is a matchmaking system that works on the principle of stacking the best players in a range on one team anything but idiotic?

If they wanted to move better players through the divisions then they should of used placement matches / MMR history, etc to place them in a higher division, you know how actual “e-sport” games work.

Yeah, we’ll see.

Vargamonth.2047:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

I think, you can even gain higher MMR from defeats, if you score better than expected. So a lost game doesn’t neccessarily mean a disadvantage for further games. At least that’s how it should be.

Glicko algorythm can’t do that unless it has been heavily modified.
It’s a system used for chess after all, and there’s nothing like a score there AFAIK.

You are probably right and i mixed up MMR and pip gain from season 1. So the first few games can actually influence how fast/easy you will progress at the beginn of the season. But it should settle later on, regardless.

I don’t care going up to legendary, gain pips, lose pips,I want fair match.
so mmr of team must be similar as possible, i don’t want every match 90-10. is simply not fun.
the system is broken -full stop-
all the matches must be near 50-50 as possible this is the only rule they must take in mind all the rest they can do what they want.

vulneraria.4865:

I don’t care going up to legendary, gain pips, lose pips,I want fair match.
so mmr of team must be similar as possible, i don’t want every match 90-10. is simply not fun.
the system is broken -full stop-
all the matches must be near 50-50 as possible this is the only rule they must take in mind all the rest they can do what they want.

So go play unranked. That should still be using the old MMR matchmaking. Really simple fix.

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

I don’t care going up to legendary, gain pips, lose pips,I want fair match.
so mmr of team must be similar as possible, i don’t want every match 90-10. is simply not fun.
the system is broken -full stop-
all the matches must be near 50-50 as possible this is the only rule they must take in mind all the rest they can do what they want.

So go play unranked. That should still be using the old MMR matchmaking. Really simple fix.

there is no fair match in unranked, is not fair when ppl really don’t care to win or lose…you know this.
is only fair when all want to win.

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

I don’t care going up to legendary, gain pips, lose pips,I want fair match.
so mmr of team must be similar as possible, i don’t want every match 90-10. is simply not fun.
the system is broken -full stop-
all the matches must be near 50-50 as possible this is the only rule they must take in mind all the rest they can do what they want.

So go play unranked. That should still be using the old MMR matchmaking. Really simple fix.

Isn’t it ironic, when people advocate moving from ranked to unranked in pursuit of better challenge in matches?

Anomaly.7612:

Spartacus.3192:

The phrase “Better to be lucky than good”

if you get lucky in your initial games (team mates, DC’s on enemy team, whatever), then you MMR will increase and you will get progressively better team mates. Which snowballs to the (pros wreck noobs).

Conversely if you are unlucky in your initial games. (your team mates DC or you get internet lag or simply get enemy teams with voice comms), you will get matched with progressively worse team mates. Now you will get wrecked more.

How is this even ok?

Because ANet wants Esports, and the people who have been playing the game and supporting them, they don’t want them playing in PvP.

Astralporing.1957:

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

I don’t care going up to legendary, gain pips, lose pips,I want fair match.
so mmr of team must be similar as possible, i don’t want every match 90-10. is simply not fun.
the system is broken -full stop-
all the matches must be near 50-50 as possible this is the only rule they must take in mind all the rest they can do what they want.

So go play unranked. That should still be using the old MMR matchmaking. Really simple fix.

Isn’t it ironic, when people advocate moving from ranked to unranked in pursuit of better challenge in matches?

Not really. If he takes a break for a week or so, comes back and then plays his way to the division where he can’t progress any further, he’ll get his 50/50 games. Until then, play unranked. Simple.

Pakkazull.6894:

Astralporing.1957:

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

I don’t care going up to legendary, gain pips, lose pips,I want fair match.
so mmr of team must be similar as possible, i don’t want every match 90-10. is simply not fun.
the system is broken -full stop-
all the matches must be near 50-50 as possible this is the only rule they must take in mind all the rest they can do what they want.

So go play unranked. That should still be using the old MMR matchmaking. Really simple fix.

Isn’t it ironic, when people advocate moving from ranked to unranked in pursuit of better challenge in matches?

Not really. If he takes a break for a week or so, comes back and then plays his way to the division where he can’t progress any further, he’ll get his 50/50 games. Until then, play unranked. Simple.

nope, even in that case my team will have a mmr and the other another….maybe my team 950 (because i have played less) and the other 200 (because they lost all the matches)…so we will never have a fair match.
even the top 10 players don’t have a fair match because top 5 five will be in the same team.

vulneraria.4865:

Pakkazull.6894:

Astralporing.1957:

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

I don’t care going up to legendary, gain pips, lose pips,I want fair match.
so mmr of team must be similar as possible, i don’t want every match 90-10. is simply not fun.
the system is broken -full stop-
all the matches must be near 50-50 as possible this is the only rule they must take in mind all the rest they can do what they want.

So go play unranked. That should still be using the old MMR matchmaking. Really simple fix.

Isn’t it ironic, when people advocate moving from ranked to unranked in pursuit of better challenge in matches?

Not really. If he takes a break for a week or so, comes back and then plays his way to the division where he can’t progress any further, he’ll get his 50/50 games. Until then, play unranked. Simple.

nope, even in that case my team will have a mmr and the other another….maybe my team 950 (because i have played less) and the other 200 (because they lost all the matches)…so we will never have a fair match.
even the top 10 players don’t have a fair match because top 5 five will be in the same team.

… except someone with 200 MMR won’t be good enough to make it to the same division where everyone else is 950. Look, you can kitten complain all you want, but the truth is, you have no idea if it’s going to be like you said. And I have no idea if it’s going to be like I said, but that’s the theory of it. We’ll just have to wait and see.

vulneraria.4865:

even the top 10 players don’t have a fair match because top 5 five will be in the same team.

That’s assuming the MMR difference is vast enough to matter between the top ten players, which I find highly doubtful.

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

Pakkazull.6894:

Astralporing.1957:

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

I don’t care going up to legendary, gain pips, lose pips,I want fair match.
so mmr of team must be similar as possible, i don’t want every match 90-10. is simply not fun.
the system is broken -full stop-
all the matches must be near 50-50 as possible this is the only rule they must take in mind all the rest they can do what they want.

So go play unranked. That should still be using the old MMR matchmaking. Really simple fix.

Isn’t it ironic, when people advocate moving from ranked to unranked in pursuit of better challenge in matches?

Not really. If he takes a break for a week or so, comes back and then plays his way to the division where he can’t progress any further, he’ll get his 50/50 games. Until then, play unranked. Simple.

nope, even in that case my team will have a mmr and the other another….maybe my team 950 (because i have played less) and the other 200 (because they lost all the matches)…so we will never have a fair match.
even the top 10 players don’t have a fair match because top 5 five will be in the same team.

… except someone with 200 MMR won’t be good enough to make it to the same division where everyone else is 950. Look, you can kitten complain all you want, but the truth is, you have no idea if it’s going to be like you said. And I have no idea if it’s going to be like I said, but that’s the theory of it. We’ll just have to wait and see.

vulneraria.4865:

even the top 10 players don’t have a fair match because top 5 five will be in the same team.

That’s assuming the MMR difference is vast enough to matter between the top ten players, which I find highly doubtful.

take top 5 five team in football champions league and put them against 6-10th teams…there is no match, but they have similar mmr because the stomp all the other team in europe from 11th to the last one.

top five player in same team destroy 6th-10th players team.

vulneraria.4865:

take top 5 five team in football champions league and put them against 6-10th teams…there is no match, but they have similar mmr because the stomp all the other team in europe from 11th to the last one.

top five player in same team destroy 6th-10th players team.

I don’t really see how comparing the top ten teams in football to the top ten players in Guild Wars is relevant, but whatever. Like I said, I doubt there’s a significant difference in MMR between the top ten players.

Neither of us have any proof, any data to show that what we are saying is right, so like I said, we’ll have to wait and see how it pans out.

Pakkazull : the math here is very easy there is no ‘how this will be?’.
team A have player with mmr 1000.
now they take random other team that can have all the other number from 0 to 2600 (more or less) so the match will be fair only if randomly they take a team from 950 to 1050. (and still 1000 vs 1050 mrr is a 30-70 is not fair)
may be with +7/-7 pips from you you can get a little more close mmr but still the best player are all in one team and the worst always in the other.
in other words the system is now, tomorrow, and so on :
on team have the best 5 player and other the worst 5 taken from a random 10 players. even if their mmr is very close will be never a fair match.

ok last football example.
if you cannot understand this, I give up:
In Italy (but I think every where) if you are going to play football with friends we choose 2 cpt (with same skill possibly) and they choose turn-based a player for their team.
is the best way for a fair match.
with this system, the best player, choose the other 4 best players, and the other team is made by the worst player.
is this fair?

vulneraria.4865:

Pakkazull : the math here is very easy there is no ‘how this will be?’.
team A have player with mmr 1000.
now they take random other team that can have all the other number from 0 to 2600 (more or less) so the match will be fair only if randomly they take a team from 950 to 1050. (and still 1000 vs 1050 mrr is a 30-70 is not fair)
may be with +7/-7 pips from you you can get a little more close mmr but still the best player are all in one team and the worst always in the other.
in other words the system is now, tomorrow, and so on :
on team have the best 5 player and other the worst 5 taken from a random 10 players. even if their mmr is very close will be never a fair match.

Uhm, I feel like you’re misrepresenting the system. It doesn’t take the 5 “best” players within pip range and match them with the 5 “worst” players, it literally just takes 5 players with similar MMR and matches them against another team at random (within their pip range, of course).

For fair matches you have to match teams in a close total MMR range… If you have to build two teams out of 10 players then pick something like: 1 + 4 + 5 + 7 + 10 v.s. 2+3+6+8+9….. But whatever you do it will have flaws. It will get a lot more complicated and you have to mix systems if you want it better. This can lead to high que times… So decide …

Pakkazull.6894:

vulneraria.4865:

Pakkazull : the math here is very easy there is no ‘how this will be?’.
team A have player with mmr 1000.
now they take random other team that can have all the other number from 0 to 2600 (more or less) so the match will be fair only if randomly they take a team from 950 to 1050. (and still 1000 vs 1050 mrr is a 30-70 is not fair)
may be with +7/-7 pips from you you can get a little more close mmr but still the best player are all in one team and the worst always in the other.
in other words the system is now, tomorrow, and so on :
on team have the best 5 player and other the worst 5 taken from a random 10 players. even if their mmr is very close will be never a fair match.

Uhm, I feel like you’re misrepresenting the system. It doesn’t take the 5 “best” players within pip range and match them with the 5 “worst” players, it literally just takes 5 players with similar MMR and matches them against another team at random (within their pip range, of course).

random means the same taken a group of 5 player with mmr 1000 they are put against 5 player with mmr 950 or 5 with 1050.
in both case 1 team have the best players of the pool.the system work like this.

Wolfric.9380:

For fair matches you have to match teams in a close total MMR range… If you have to build two teams out of 10 players then pick something like: 1 + 4 + 5 + 7 + 10 v.s. 2+3+6+8+9….. But whatever you do it will have flaws. It will get a lot more complicated and you have to mix systems if you want it better. This can lead to high que times… So decide …

why high queue time? choose the team like now, mix them (1 millisec data elaboration) and game done.

Right now – may as well not even bother with many of the games.

1500 MMR vs 1000 MMR : Result known ..
Uninstall.

a think more complicated ^^.
But of couse a lot of simple improvements can be done. You are right pair and mix again after it would statistically reduce the unbalance …. Good idea.

No point playing right now at all – lose a few – lower your MMR…
Cycle continues…

Get paired then with people who are DC’ing or are clueless …
Cycle continues downhill…

Uninstall.

vulneraria.4865:

Pakkazull : the math here is very easy there is no ‘how this will be?’

Another problem with your whole argument is that we have no idea how wide the MMR range is when putting teams together. Going back to your “top 10 player” example, we have no idea how tight the MMR parameters are; for all we know, they are tight enough to make sure good players get out of the lower leagues quickly, but wide enough to provide “fair” games higher up. We don’t know for a fact that it always puts the players with the highest MMR in one team, only that it puts players with a similar MMR in one team. I.e. in a pool of ten players, where five players have 1050 MMR, and the other 5 have 950, it’s not certain that the five 1050 MMR players would end up on the same team.

We simply don’t have enough information about the system, or have had enough time to experience it, to make a call yet. If any of the devs would elaborate, that would be cool. But yeah, there are certainly improvements that can be made to the system, and yeah, I could very well be wrong. But don’t act like you have intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the system.

TPMN.1483:

No point playing right now at all – lose a few – lower your MMR…
Cycle continues…

Get paired then with people who are DC’ing or are clueless …
Cycle continues downhill…

Uninstall.

If your goal was to make a completely pointless off-topic post, you succeeded. Take your whining elsewhere.

The only problem with having MMR only for your team and not the opposing team is:

“New Ranked Player have a fixed Average MMR, this bring true average MMR players to get way more lose than it should”

Anet need to give lower than average MMR, I would say 25% of top MMR, not 50%.

It seems that I am not in that category, got 8 wins and 2 loses versus renown top players.

me 950 mmr and you 1050 click on ranked match.
i get 4 player near me and you get player near you…in the end you have the best players of the pool.

here the sentence, that is all we know…but so much winning streak or losing streak… :
. We’ll search for other players that fall within your pip range (which can extend outside of your division depending on where you’re currently placed) and pair you up with teammates who have a similar skill level to your own. We’ll then find you opponents within that same pip range and pair them against you, regardless of their skill level.

regardless of their skill level, here is the problem.

lichtquant.1490:

Divisions actually DIVIDE playerbase skillwise (not now, but in a few days it will be more obvious).

I’m not sure, if in reality, it really will.

If everybody plays the same amount of games, then yes, (at least in theory) it would.

How does ‘games played’ factor in the whole system?

The most obvious problem will be the top of the list. Good players with a lot of play time are will be there, not the best of the best. (Other games are solving it will a challenger-bracket at the top of the league system.) How will it look at the other tiers?

Another intesting question: If the MMR-curve is Bell-shaped, where will the body end up? Will the average player end up on legendary and the top player on legendary 6?

Edit: Another problem, we might forget here: most assumptions are, that the match making system is actually working. If he take a look at the past ‘bug fixes’, until we are more weeks into the season, we can’t tell for sure, there aren’t any.

zinkz.7045:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“Beginning with Season 2, matchmaking for Ranked matches will use your placement in your current league division as your primary matchmaking consideration and pair you against players who are placed in the same point range as you, regardless of the skill level (MMR) of the other people in that point range.

While we’ll be using divisions to match you against your immediate opponents, we’ll still use your MMR to place you on teams with similarly skilled players (from your division point range) to help ensure that you’re not forced to play with individuals that are of a much higher or lower skill than you.

Ultimately, this means that the new matchmaking changes will make PvP Leagues much more reflective of your actual skill, and each division will be progressively more difficult to compete in."

Really? What it looks like is that they are doing the opposite to good matchmaking in order to move better players through quicker, on what planet is that good?

What happens in diamond / legend, so Helseth (for sake of an assumed high MMR example) queues at 12 AM, then the next 4 highest MMR people in his pip range get put in his team because teams are made on MMR, they then get matched against some other guy who is at a similar pip range and has a lower MMR than Helseth and therefore his teamates have a lower MMR and you get a crappy one sided match even in Diamond / Legend.

What sort of kittened “matchmaking” system works on the basis of doing the complete opposite to matchmaking, by stacking one side? And remember that is not just going to happen at top level that is going to happen at every level of the game, laughable non-matchmaking.

I mean if PvP had a playerbase the size of DOTA 2 or something then it could work, but this is a game that often can’t even find a 5 man team for opponents when 5 ESL players queue as a team.

it’s called “seeded” vs. “unseeded”. at the uefa 2016 you don’t want germany and spain to play each other early. they should face each other the latest possible.

of course if you are at the top tier of the divisions the only way to avoid this, is to make a premade team.

… @Teutos: given the fact, the season lasts long enough, and everybody will play 24/7, then yes

But if not, there will be a separation of players, resulting in even match-ups throughout the divisions with only really slow division-progression happening the further the season goes – at least in theory.

And that is ok for a season – not everyone is bound to play around the top…

And yes, number of matches played is a factor – statistical one of the more important to get a stable MMR via Glicko 2.
Also number of players available to draw from (which is a problem in GW2).

Apart from that, lots of these posts from the last few days would be unneccessary, if A-net would actually decide to show the MMR in some table/match report, the win/loss-prediction of the past match-up and the MMR-gain/loss regarding that past match-up.

At least some of our “legendary-30-losses-in-a-row-clearly-not-my-fault”-posters would know more about their problem, and we ALL didn’t have to guess about matchmaking-failures, as obvious flaws would be obvious then…

thats why we always have 500-xx match

lichtquant.1490:

And yes, number of matches played is a factor – statistical one of the more important to get a stable MMR via Glicko 2.
Also number of players available to draw from (which is a problem in GW2).

Is the number of available players in a purely glicko2-based match making process really more problematic, than in the mess we currently have?

The current situation is just the cheapest way possible to salvage the league wreck from last season.

EVERY other game manages to do it right: let players play with and against players of about the same MMR. Distribute the reward (the amount of pips you gain and loose) depending on your MMR.

But no, our devs decide the mess we know have is better: It is not fun to farm other teams and it is not fun to get farmed.

Showing our MMR would not stop anything. Nobody is expecting or demanding to be on top. People just want high-quality matches (this does not only include match making, but also the blancing of the professions).

… I agree with some parts of what you said.

Actually, an addition to the current MMR in leagues to put your opponents MMR into matching too would improve experience for the lesser skilled players.

But every better player would have to endure amber forever (exaggerating here), and we would actually have about three divisions of every jewel: an amber division of pro players, an amber division of mid tier players, an amber division of beginners (same goes for every other jewel).

All of them would sport an amber jewel/ruby/diamond…, but no one would know, which where the better players (kind of what we have now from season 1).

That would make any league system obsolete – in other words, everyone has now a non-determining dragon-rank-finisher. There is no skill related. So why leagues then.

Reward tracks are for people that want to advance just by playing.
League should be for people who want to know how far they can get and to secure they don’t have to endure matches with uneven odds 24/7/12.

And A-net decided to invent instead of copy already working systems, so we are basically all paying beta-testers regarding leagues.

If playing sucks, we just have to stop playing – it still is a game, not work for a living.