Guild Wars 2

Like the majority of the vocal community I also dislike Trahearne; long story short he makes the personal story impersonal. He essentially usurps the title of main character.

This reminded me of when I used to play Dungeons and Dragons. Sometimes the Dungeon Master would create an NPC which would follow the group around and steal the glory for themselves. Players generally wanted to kill that NPC, especialy if he was as two-dimensional as Trahearne.

I’m not trying to be unfair, I know the writers tried their best but Trahearne serves absolutely no purpose other than to hijack the story away from the player.

I would like to invite any and all ANet writers to speak about why they included Trahearne. I’d love to hear your thoughts on him as a character.

As an side perhaps your next major NPC could be voiced by someone with a little more emotion. I hear Microsoft Sam is available.

I didn’t mind him so much at first, but I agree he shouldn’t have been in the foreground for the rest of the story. He basically took away the focus of the story from our character to him till the end of the story, and that kinda sucks.
I really do miss my mentor from the Vigil. That guy was actually fun and cool… why did he have to die?

How could all of us lead the Pact to victory? Not that all of us being Commander makes sense either…..

Maybe if we didn’t constantly need to rez his lame puppy it wouldn’t be so bad.

MMOs in general don’t make sense narratively in that traditionally everyone is the hero. Everyone has their own personal story. As far as canon goes you could just say that the hero saved the world.

Rezzing him is not the issue. He makes the story bad just through being in it.

eh, i think the hate is unfounded. they can’t get you, the unnamed hero, to take all the glory, ESPECIALLY because there are thousands of other unnamed heroes walking around.

trahearne is one of the best-developed characters in the personal story, he actually undergoes character development and stays around for plenty of story arcs. he’s not as intrusive as people make him sound, you’re still the other half of the reason the pact exists, and you’re almost as in charge of it as him. you still get to boss people around, and whenever someone mentions him, they mention you too.

as from a gameplay perspective, i don’t think trahearne has ever died on me. and it’s not like i play some heavy support class that keeps him alive (i’m a condition damage thief), i just mind my own business, and trahearne does his thing (tanks a lot, spin2win, deals surprisingly heavy damage for an NPC). in fact, i’d say he’s more useful than destiny’s edge, who seem content in just following you around and falling dead on the first sign of battle.

BrunoBRS.5178:

trahearne is one of the best-developed characters in the personal story, he actually undergoes character development and stays around for plenty of story arcs. he’s not as intrusive as people make him sound, you’re still the other half of the reason the pact exists, and you’re almost as in charge of it as him. you still get to boss people around, and whenever someone mentions him, they mention you too.

I’m having a much easier time remembering when the player character is completely ignored than I am remembering them being recognized equally. How about the whole ruins rescue mission where you fight the wraith boss at the end? Not only does every single character in the ensuing cutscene go on and on about how Trahearne saved them and how Trahearne defeated the wraith and how amazing he is, your character has no presence in the cutscene at all. You are a complete nonentity the entire mission, despite being the one who actually defeated the boss.

And even after defeating Zhaitan, the NPC dialogue is borderline insulting. They go on about how Trahearne just saved the world, and then once they finish gushing over it, they throw in a “And the Commander defeated Zhaitan, too!” at the end. Like it’s an afterthought.

I saved this screen from someone else, at the time I didn’t think to save instances of all the times the story disregards you in favor of Trahearne. But it’s a perfect example of the complaints surrounding how Trahearne fits into the player’s story.

i don’t know, i remember more times where people were like “zomg the commander” than paying attention to trahearne, mostly because a lot of times in the trinity campaign you’ll be taking action on your own while trahearne is busy with whatever else he does. you call the shots, you take the action, you are rewarded.

and again, you’re a nameless hero, one of thousands of nameless heroes. they can’t make everyone suddenly be the special chosen one of whatever, that’s just stupid and silly. so they give you the title of commander and put you as second in command, leaving a character to take on the lore-glory (like Kormir) and you to take the triumph at the present (unlike Kormir, Trahearne didn’t even get a promotion, and you’re just as celebrated as him).

instead of being jealous of the NPC, try acknowledging that he’s always thanking you, and so is everyone else, and that you know that YOU are the one responsible. hell, trahearne wasn’t even on the final battle against zhaitan (the credit of that battle will go to destiny’s edge on the lore, not him, and not you).

I just googled “hate Trahearne” to see if I was alone in what feels like an irrational hatred of this character. Obviously, I’m not alone. I’ve disliked this guy since I first saw him as a young Sylvari.

Personally, I have nothing against the storyline. I think the story was written well, and I think it’s cool that Trahearne is calling the shots at the end because he has more life experience than my character. Unfortunately, they forgot to make Trahearne interesting. He’s so very flawless, nice, and bland that there’s nothing endearing or likeable about him. He’s supposed to be the oldest Sylvari, so you’d think he’d have a few personality quirks by now.

I wish there had been an option to replace Trahearne with Caithe in the end… I love her to death.

I actually like the idea of being more of a secondary character, though Trahearne was a terrible character for a lead. Like many others have said, he had no qualities that made me want to fight for him.

I have no problem with the concept of a main character who isn’t the player – I actually think this makes a lot of sense, since the incoherence between personal quests and the rest of the world is caused by your being constantly treated as a bigger deal than you are.

But Trahearne is just a very badly written, badly acted character. I presume the voice actor is an American trying to ‘do’ an English accent? Because he’s got the kind of voice that English people would associate with a stuck-up rich dude ordering his butler about. It’s entirely ill-fitting on a supposedly humble bookworm unexpectedly thrust into the limelight.

The other problem is that he’s so criminally ineffective. At that bit where the Pale Tree Avatar gives him Caladborg, I wanted my character to say, “Hold on, you’ve just been watching us fight, right? You realise all he does is blow some kind of black dust on people while I fight off five enemies at once with three different weapons?”

The link to this forum says “Personal Story: It really is all about you”.

I do not think it means what they think it means. Unless by You they mean Trahearne.

NinjaMonkey.3917:

The link to this forum says “Personal Story: It really is all about you”.

I do not think it means what they think it means. Unless by You they mean Trahearne.

it’s still your story. the problem is that you think your story is about how you alone take over all of orr and kill zhaitan, when it’s more like “your story is about how you help trahearne in a collective effort to take over all of orr and kill zhaitan”. it’s not because you’re not THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN ALL OF TYRIA LOOK AT ME that it’s not your story.

.

as for Trahearne not having any traits, i found it interesting that he was a scholar with a seemingly impossible wyld hunt (he even mentions his pessimism a few times, and even hear from other sylvaris that he has no chance), forced into a task he did not want (become a marshal and fight, being forced into being a hero he did not want to become, for the greater good), and over the time learning to appreciate why he is needed.

BrunoBRS.5178:

NinjaMonkey.3917:

The link to this forum says “Personal Story: It really is all about you”.

I do not think it means what they think it means. Unless by You they mean Trahearne.

it’s still your story. the problem is that you think your story is about how you alone take over all of orr and kill zhaitan, when it’s more like “your story is about how you help trahearne in a collective effort to take over all of orr and kill zhaitan”. it’s not because you’re not that it’s not your story.

.

as for Trahearne THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN ALL OF TYRIA LOOK AT ME not having any traits, i found it interesting that he was a scholar with a seemingly impossible wyld hunt (he even mentions his pessimism a few times, and even hear from other sylvaris that he has no chance), forced into a task he did not want (become a marshal and fight, being forced into being a hero he did not want to become, for the greater good), and over the time learning to appreciate why he is needed.

I found it very jarring when I got to Trahearne in my personal story and discovered that for the rest of the story I’d be playing Robin to his Batman. At that point it stopped being my story and became Trahearne’s story.

If anyone disagrees, so be it. But that’s how I personally feel on the matter.

BrunoBRS.5178:

and again, you’re a nameless hero, one of thousands of nameless heroes. they can’t make everyone suddenly be the special chosen one of whatever, that’s just stupid and silly. so they give you the title of commander and put you as second in command, leaving a character to take on the lore-glory (like Kormir) and you to take the triumph at the present (unlike Kormir, Trahearne didn’t even get a promotion, and you’re just as celebrated as him).

Making every individual player the hero of the whole world in their own story makes no less sense than making every one of millions of characters played by over a million players second in command. Your personal story does not sync up with the rest of the world anyway. The fact that one group of people has gone in and defeated Zhaitan doesn’t mean that another group goes in to find a dragon carcass and NPCs saying, “A little late, huh? We could have used the help; maybe fewer people would have died.” When you go to WvW you’re not wondering, “Wow, I wonder why there’re hundreds of us Trahearne sidekicks all kicking each others’ teeth in.”

Fact is, when you play your personal story your character is separated out from everyone else’s and their stories, which could very well be identical to yours if they are the same race and answered questions the same in character creation. For the personal story to make sense you can’t look at it in relation to everyone else running around in the world. Trying to make it make sense in that context (like being a sidekick to the real hero who does little of the work and gets nearly all of the glory) actually causes me more cognitive dissonance than just keeping the different aspects of the game distinct from each other.

Books from the point of view of a sidekick can be interesting but I don’t play video games to be the spare. That’s fine at the beginning of the story, not at the end.

Azoetia.2183:

BrunoBRS.5178:

and again, you’re a nameless hero, one of thousands of nameless heroes. they can’t make everyone suddenly be the special chosen one of whatever, that’s just stupid and silly. so they give you the title of commander and put you as second in command, leaving a character to take on the lore-glory (like Kormir) and you to take the triumph at the present (unlike Kormir, Trahearne didn’t even get a promotion, and you’re just as celebrated as him).

Making every individual player the hero of the whole world in their own story makes no less sense than making every one of millions of characters played by over a million players second in command. Your personal story does not sync up with the rest of the world anyway. The fact that one group of people has gone in and defeated Zhaitan doesn’t mean that another group goes in to find a dragon carcass and NPCs saying, “A little late, huh? We could have used the help; maybe fewer people would have died.” When you go to WvW you’re not wondering, “Wow, I wonder why there’re hundreds of us Trahearne sidekicks all kicking each others’ teeth in.”

Fact is, when you play your personal story your character is separated out from everyone else’s and their stories, which could very well be identical to yours if they are the same race and answered questions the same in character creation. For the personal story to make sense you can’t look at it in relation to everyone else running around in the world. Trying to make it make sense in that context (like being a sidekick to the real hero who does little of the work and gets nearly all of the glory) actually causes me more cognitive dissonance than just keeping the different aspects of the game distinct from each other.

Books from the point of view of a sidekick can be interesting but I don’t play video games to be the spare. That’s fine at the beginning of the story, not at the end.

This post made the most sense to me. To make an analogy. Everyone is Commander Shepard. Not really sure how I can expand this, but those who get what I mean should be able to understand what I mean by this.

JazKW.6547:

Azoetia.2183:

BrunoBRS.5178:

and again, you’re a nameless hero, one of thousands of nameless heroes. they can’t make everyone suddenly be the special chosen one of whatever, that’s just stupid and silly. so they give you the title of commander and put you as second in command, leaving a character to take on the lore-glory (like Kormir) and you to take the triumph at the present (unlike Kormir, Trahearne didn’t even get a promotion, and you’re just as celebrated as him).

Making every individual player the hero of the whole world in their own story makes no less sense than making every one of millions of characters played by over a million players second in command. Your personal story does not sync up with the rest of the world anyway. The fact that one group of people has gone in and defeated Zhaitan doesn’t mean that another group goes in to find a dragon carcass and NPCs saying, “A little late, huh? We could have used the help; maybe fewer people would have died.” When you go to WvW you’re not wondering, “Wow, I wonder why there’re hundreds of us Trahearne sidekicks all kicking each others’ teeth in.”

Fact is, when you play your personal story your character is separated out from everyone else’s and their stories, which could very well be identical to yours if they are the same race and answered questions the same in character creation. For the personal story to make sense you can’t look at it in relation to everyone else running around in the world. Trying to make it make sense in that context (like being a sidekick to the real hero who does little of the work and gets nearly all of the glory) actually causes me more cognitive dissonance than just keeping the different aspects of the game distinct from each other.

Books from the point of view of a sidekick can be interesting but I don’t play video games to be the spare. That’s fine at the beginning of the story, not at the end.

This post made the most sense to me. To make an analogy. Everyone is Commander Shepard. Not really sure how I can expand this, but those who get what I mean should be able to understand what I mean by this.

I agree with both of the above. When I play an MMO where MY STORY is being told and I’m the “hero” of it I don’t much appreciate suddenly finding myself being “the extra” in the scene from a certain point forward.

I like having NPCs as my peers and superiors because I’m sick and tired of the constant Only You Can Save Us O Godlike Chosen One ego-stroking and stories in which no one else is allowed to be remotely intelligent, competent or involved.

What is an absolute, non-negotiable no-go, however, is giving an NPC credit for the player’s actions. Doing that absolutely murders, butchers and mutilates any sense of immersion and coherence — not to mention it really ticks people off. People you met before, people you helped and saved, people who were close to you, people who awarded you a special position … if you meet them again and they treat you like a random, generic stranger, then the devs might as well just delete the earlier story-missions in which you met them. Because they apparently never happened.

Seriously, I can’t believe that this even needs to be pointed out. That sort of thing is kindergarten-level knowledge for anyone who wants to tell a story.

relevant links.

Also, Kormir 2!

I got to this point in the story arc last night. I excused myself from TeamSpeak with my guild so I could concentrate on the episode (“A Light in the Darkness” I think it was called.)

When it was done, I sat dumbfounded for a few moments and then went back to TS. “So let me get this straight,” I said over my headset. “I just spent nearly sixty levels honing my skills, defeating evil, and rising through the ranks of the Order of Whispers… in order to play second banana to a sword-wielding salad?!”

The understanding guffaws I heard in response pretty much confirmed my suspicions. To rub salt into the proverbial wounds, my “reward” was one of two really crappy blue weapons.

I can’t even begin to express how disinclined I am to even progress the story now. Haven’t been this disappointed in a storyline since Mass Effect 3. And at least they (eventually) tried to fix that one. I’m not sure you can unring this particular bell.

Chadramar.8156:

I like having NPCs as my peers and superiors because I’m sick and tired of the constant Only You Can Save Us O Godlike Chosen One ego-stroking and stories in which no one else is allowed to be remotely intelligent, competent or involved.

What is an absolute, non-negotiable no-go, however, is giving an NPC credit for the player’s actions. Doing that absolutely murders, butchers and mutilates any sense of immersion and coherence — not to mention it really ticks people off. People you met before, people you helped and saved, people who were close to you, people who awarded you a special position … if you meet them again and they treat you like a random, generic stranger, then the devs might as well just delete the earlier story-missions in which you met them. Because they apparently never happened.

Seriously, I can’t believe that this even needs to be pointed out. That sort of thing is kindergarten-level knowledge for anyone who wants to tell a story.

that’s got more to do with the game’s poor structuring in storytelling than with trahearne, though. the whole “isolated story arcs that pseudobranch at the end of each arc” structure leads to stuff like the need to kill your mentor, and to retcon any characters you’ve met on previous arcs.

mucco.1867:

relevant links.

Also, Kormir 2!

hey, i DM’d a bunch of games, and i’m proud to have my own player character in the party at the same time! :P i’d usually leave him as a secondary character though, letting the party handle the bigger decisions.

BaireSharque.5326:

I got to this point in the story arc last night. I excused myself from TeamSpeak with my guild so I could concentrate on the episode (“A Light in the Darkness” I think it was called.)

When it was done, I sat dumbfounded for a few moments and then went back to TS. “So let me get this straight,” I said over my headset. “I just spent nearly sixty levels honing my skills, defeating evil, and rising through the ranks of the Order of Whispers… in order to play second banana to a sword-wielding salad?!”

The understanding guffaws I heard in response pretty much confirmed my suspicions. To rub salt into the proverbial wounds, my “reward” was one of two really crappy blue weapons.

I can’t even begin to express how disinclined I am to even progress the story now. Haven’t been this disappointed in a storyline since Mass Effect 3. And at least they (eventually) tried to fix that one. I’m not sure you can unring this particular bell.

It’s this fact alone that I leveled my third 80 without doing any story missions after I got “Orders of Tyria” level 21. Remembering why I disliked how Anet always seems to screw over player characters, I couldn’t not force myself to stomach this author avatar ego stroking for yet again.

Amlin.6041:

BaireSharque.5326:

I got to this point in the story arc last night. I excused myself from TeamSpeak with my guild so I could concentrate on the episode (“A Light in the Darkness” I think it was called.)

When it was done, I sat dumbfounded for a few moments and then went back to TS. “So let me get this straight,” I said over my headset. “I just spent nearly sixty levels honing my skills, defeating evil, and rising through the ranks of the Order of Whispers… in order to play second banana to a sword-wielding salad?!”

The understanding guffaws I heard in response pretty much confirmed my suspicions. To rub salt into the proverbial wounds, my “reward” was one of two really crappy blue weapons.

I can’t even begin to express how disinclined I am to even progress the story now. Haven’t been this disappointed in a storyline since Mass Effect 3. And at least they (eventually) tried to fix that one. I’m not sure you can unring this particular bell.

It’s this fact alone that I leveled my third 80 without doing any story missions after I got “Orders of Tyria” level 21. Remembering why I disliked how Anet always seems to screw over player characters, I couldn’t not force myself to stomach this author avatar ego stroking for yet again.

instead, they should stroke your ego, right, O Chosen One?

BrunoBRS.5178:

instead, they should stroke your ego, right, O Chosen One?

You’re sadly mistaken, I don’t need npcs licking my boots but I sure as hell don’t want to be someones sidekick.

Frankly, I think the personal story gives you a way to high rank
kinda wish MMO stories held the player as a simple adventurer/soldier or another group that there can be a lot of people in. the personal story didn’t need to be “how you defeated zhaitan” it can easily be “your life trought the war against zhaitan” one of many the helped stop him.
until you formed the pack it was almost that and while it wasn’t executed perfectly it was better than what we got towards the end.

I didn’t hate Trahearne tho my first character was sylvari so he was the only character that my character knew through out the entire story and had conversations with on a semi regular basis (the lack of regular characters is pretty bad in my opinon)

I will admit that they handled the focus on Trahearn poorly, I like the concept and I liked it when Brütal Legend did it but that is no exuse for ignoring the player character
and Trahearn VA really needed to sound more inspiring.

I know that in a MMO we will proably never escape the “there are millions who did the same” but that is not an excuse for not trying

BrunoBRS.5178:

Amlin.6041:

BaireSharque.5326:

I got to this point in the story arc last night. I excused myself from TeamSpeak with my guild so I could concentrate on the episode (“A Light in the Darkness” I think it was called.)

When it was done, I sat dumbfounded for a few moments and then went back to TS. “So let me get this straight,” I said over my headset. “I just spent nearly sixty levels honing my skills, defeating evil, and rising through the ranks of the Order of Whispers… in order to play second banana to a sword-wielding salad?!”

The understanding guffaws I heard in response pretty much confirmed my suspicions. To rub salt into the proverbial wounds, my “reward” was one of two really crappy blue weapons.

I can’t even begin to express how disinclined I am to even progress the story now. Haven’t been this disappointed in a storyline since Mass Effect 3. And at least they (eventually) tried to fix that one. I’m not sure you can unring this particular bell.

It’s this fact alone that I leveled my third 80 without doing any story missions after I got “Orders of Tyria” level 21. Remembering why I disliked how Anet always seems to screw over player characters, I couldn’t not force myself to stomach this author avatar ego stroking for yet again.

instead, they should stroke your ego, right, O Chosen One?

Frankly, yes. Trahearne didn’t pony up the REAL money to play the game, I did. Trahearne didn’t spend dozens (if not hundreds) of hours playing to advance my characters, I did. As a human mesmer, I didn’t even meet this talking spinach until I was in my 50’s (as I have a number of alts, I realize if you have a Sylvari you meet him much sooner.) Consequently, I have no emotional investment or point-of-reference to him whatsoever. From my toon’s perspective, this guy is a complete stranger, and even worse, a usurper to the efforts I’ve put into advancing my story. And in combat, he’s less than useless, even with his super-duper bequeathed-from-on-high greatsword.

At least with Tybalt, he had a personality. He made me laugh. I felt some genuine pathos when he made his final decision. Right now, if Trahearne were to be ground into mulch in front of me, I’d offer the one responsible a carafe of balsamic vinaigrette dressing and some croutons.

The personal stories are supposed to be just that—-personal. You’re essentially doing these chapters in a vacuum; your own version of the Guild Wars storyline. For all intents and purposes, you are the hero, the “chosen one” who leads Tyria into victory. They drum that into you from the moment you arrive from your introductory story. You forge allegiances with other notables (Logan, Rytlock, Zojja, et al), who not only regard you as their peers, but give you the distinct sense that the success or failure of any given objective hinges on the outcome of your actions. And then along comes Twig-Boy, and suddenly you’re second-fiddle. Worse yet, you’re still expected to do all the heavy-lifting, only to have him take all the credit when the dust settles.

So yeah, to answer your question, I in fact do expect to be the hero, the savior, the object of adulation and song, etc., etc. Somehow it seems to me the story goes off the rails, and I think the writers just painted themselves into a corner and can’t find an elegant way out of this literary conundrum they’ve created for themselves.

BrunoBRS.5178:

mucco.1867:

relevant links.

Also, Kormir 2!

hey, i DM’d a bunch of games, and i’m proud to have my own player character in the party at the same time! :P i’d usually leave him as a secondary character though, letting the party handle the bigger decisions.

I have used the “GMPC” before as well however they are usually something menial like a torchbearer or mentor. The Order Mentors serve this purpose nicely. They are your NPC partner and grow as you grow. ANet didn’t like that though. They wanted their character to be center stage. They don’t want you to dictate the story, they have a story to tell you. And it is about Trahearne.

Most players don’t like playing second fiddle to a poorly written NPC, especially when one of the taglines for the game is “This is my story”.

Now I have disturbing yet pleasurable dreams involving Trahearne and a giant Slapchop. Thanks ANet :-P

This whole thing about “why should the game stroke your ego?” makes no sense to me whatsoever.

This isn’t like Aragorn in Lord of the Rings. You’re not a (very important) soldier fighting at the Black Gate of Mordor, holding the line against impossible odds, just hoping that the real hero will accomplish what needs to be done and destroy the One Ring and take down Sauron. Mount Doom doesn’t erupt in the distance, followed by the collapse of Barad-dur. You don’t celebrate with your comrades as your enemies flee and are destroyed, hoping the real hero so many miles away has survived.

I can definitely see getting some fulfillment out of that.

The personal story in this game is more like that episode of Reaper where the Devil keeps giving his useless kid the recognition for everything Sam does.

The problem with Trahearne is not, IMO, that he exists and has a prominent role — the problem is the awful, incoherent story-writing that a) introduces him too late to non-sylvari, and b) gives him credit for the PC’s actions while c) utterly ignoring the species and past story choices of the PC. That is what I meant to say with my last post.

It’s half-sad, half-amusing to me to see people complain that Trahearne is a “Mary Sue”. Amusing because if he is one, then what is the player character? And sad because I like the bugger and see his potential for the story, if it had been paced better and if its continuity wasn’t butchered at every turn. Don’t blame and hate Trahearne, he isn’t real and is just one symptom of the general problems with the storytelling in this game. Blame the writers and ask WTF they were thinking when they cobbled the disjointed story arcs together in pretty much the worst possible way — a mistake that should have been glaringly obvious from the start.

I understand perfectly well why they chose role as ‘second in command’ for player – while it doesn’t make any more sense than ‘big hero’ at this time, it’d be hard to incorporate player’s character as the symbol for the storyline of GW… like they did with e.g. Mhenlo and Togo (who ‘saved Cantha’).

While I’m not bitter about being ‘just a Commander’ and I certainly think it’s improvement from Kormir, I can’t help but wonder if Trahearne deserves as much credit as he receives. AAAAAND while I didn’t mind his involvement at first but now I found I don’t recall anything about him – he’s like ‘non-person’ to me. He just doesn’t have any personality, habits etc. I could claim to know. And now – with his Wyld Hunt complete & Zhaitan death – he is like empty shell for me.

And frankly, I think he should retire – there’s nothing left for him to do and no personality to like him for.

I never really bothered to worry much about Trahearne.. until this evening.

After having just killed the Mouth of Zhaitan, the typical cut-scene pops up and we’re all celebrating cutting off the dragon’s food supply. Then, the words that came out of my own character’s mouth went something like this:

“Trahearne is killing Zhaitan, one step at a time.” – Uh. Mind repeating that? I don’t think I heard myself correctly.

I’m pretty sure I was the one who killed the minion, and everything else leading up to this point – not Trahearne. Well, I did have some help from a pair of Charr npcs and a Human or two. Trahearne wasn’t even there!

Now I wouldn’t mind if Trahearne was turned into a DE Risen boss in the Halloween content patch so I can kill him for stealing my glory, and story! Sorry if this offends anyone, but sheesh.

During the Sylvari storyline, Trahearne was actually an okay character, though I could tell they were setting him up to be some kind of “stud” when one NPC named Ellivena started fangirling about Trahearne before running away in excitement/embarrassment. I only excused it because I realized Ellivena is the NPC that ArenaNet named after the request of this little girl’s father, and I found that backstory endearing.

As the story went on, however, it started to irk me more and more how NPC’s would blatantly go out of their way to gush about him— such as in that screenshot show by one of the previous poster’s.

Because I was already put off by this point, I agreed when my character rolled her eyes (not in context with the dialogue, just one of her idle animations) when Trahearne said something along the lines of: And I declare myself Marshall. How he said it made him seem more pompous rather than a modest person rising to the challenge of organizing the three Orders.

Though it would be nice to be the Commander Shepard of my personal story (since like how someone mentioned above that our stories aren’t in relation to other players), I don’t think being second in command would be so bad if Trahearne himself wasn’t such a Mary Sue character from the Level 50+ Personal Story.

I was ok with him until I went to the Claw Island story with a friend, just to see it. So much rage on both our parts! If Trahearne is within a fifty mile radius of your story, it’s gonna be all about him. And he NEVER. SHUTS. UP. ABOUT. HIS RESEARCH. I also don’t see what’s so dang special about him, since he doesn’t seem to actually know anything useful about the undead, how to deal with them, anything like that. He just likes to sound important. What I actually cared about in that story was how (spoilers) the mentor from the Vigil stays behind to fight the undead to the death while you escape. Should have left Trahearne instead….

I’m really at a total loss as to how Trahearne has been hyped into this horrible character that somehow ruins the accomplishments of the player.

That wasn’t my experience at all, even as a human guardian.

manwiththemachinegun.6873:

I’m really at a total loss as to how Trahearne has been hyped into this horrible character that somehow ruins the accomplishments of the player.

That wasn’t my experience at all, even as a human guardian.

Care to relate what your experience was?

My experience relied heavily on headcanon, but I quite enjoyed the story, when all’s said and done. There are infinitely more silly and stupid moments than there are genuine moments, but the whole thing felt all in good fun (minus a few moments when everyone else praised Trahearne a little too much).

The good writing in the game isn’t to be found anywhere near the Personal Story or the Dungeons. I just kept that in mind and had fun.

At first I thought my character was building her legend, not Trahearne’s. How wrong I was.

Trahearne is set up as a scholar who has spent 25 years researching the undead. He’s not a great warrior, but he’s respected for his expertise.

Claw Island is attacked and Zhaitan is slowed, but not stopped, your Order alone isn’t going to cut it anymore. Note that you get ALL the credit for slowing the hordes at Claw Island.

The three Orders are paralyzed by distrust, anyone who thinks this is ,‘unrealistic’ has never heard of the trouble of uniting rival factions. Look at Laurence of Arabia trying to unite disparate peoples to fight the Ottomans, or the CIA rivaling the FBI. That to me was completely plausible.

You go see the Pale tree and see a vision of the future. Trahearne isn’t glory hungry, and doesn’t really want the responsibly of forming and leading the Pact. You are the close friend who advises him to step up to the plate, for the good of Tyria. Again, you ARE influencing history.

All throughout your personal story, you are the hero getting stuff done.

Why people want to be FDR calling the shots and not General Patton out on the front lines is beyond me. Every major battle Trahearne is involved in is a MAJOR assault that is unavoidable. Even then, he only takes point on a few occasions to PROVE to the Pact he has what it takes to be a leader. All of the Orders doubt him, and you are the confidant who helps them take Trahearne seriously.

So yes, Trahearne does get credit for accomplishing some big stuff. Guess what?

So. Do. You.

When you retake Claw Island, I don’t see the besieged armies crying Trahearne! Trahearne! I hear them saying, "It’s the Warmaster! NOW we have a chance!’

Basically, I think this whole Trahearne hijacked my personal story stuff is a load of rubbish based on what we actually see in the story. It’s not even remotely close to Kormir in my opinion.

^ Finally someone who understands how the story works.

From playing the personal Story for the 3rd time (working on Vigil character) it seems anet made our hero more as the “Hero who made guided the the Main Characters of GW2” rather than “the Hero destined to save the world”.

Yes we still have the our character as heroes of GW2 but not as the Hero or heroine destined to save the world but to Unit the real heroes of GW2 and guide them to fulfill their destiny they have been given.

It is the Destiny of the members of Destiny Edge to slayer all the Elder Dragons (and they now are fulfilling this destiny because we are there to guide them from the beginning to reunite Destiny Edge)

It was Traheanre’s Destiny to cleanse Orr (and we guided him to fulfill that destiny)

I won’t be surprised that when we fight Jormag, we will have to Guide the Hero or Heroine who will damage Jormag’s teeth ,the Norn legend foretold, to allow him or her to slay Jormag.

Guided him? To me it looked more like…
Pale tree: “Here’s a cool great sword. Even if you’re a necromancer and shouldn’t be able to use it, you become the exception because your destiny is to save the world. Now go slay Zhaitan and become the hero. Oh and take this man/woman with you though, he/she has other problems with other dragons devastating their lands but nevermind, he/she seems skilled and could be of help to you.”
Not the exact words, but you get what I mean.

^
I can’t change how you see thing since everyone sees things differently but Trahearne was never given the destiny to defeat the Elder Dragon. That destiny was given to our character and Destiny Edge members as said in the dialogues.

Trahearne was given the destiny to cleans Orr and that is it. However, his task is not fully complete yet since there are still much work to be done before Orr is truly cleansed. He most likely will only appear for a small amount of scenes in Future Acts since his role was only for Act 1.

As the leader of the pact he will be doing most of the paper work tasks from now on in the storyline from diplomatic tasks with the other countries (such as Cantha and Elona in the future) to organizing deployment of Pact units which will ground him to remain mostly in the Main base of the Pact (which could be Fort Trinity until Anet confirms a main base of operations for the Pact). Being leader of the pact is not what people think it is like. Yes, he had to fight in Orr but he had to so he could fulfill his destiny. His task as Leader from now on will be to keep the pact together.

Our hero, however, will be out on the field more and most likely will be the one sent to the Northern Shiverpeeks, Cantha and Elona while Trahearne must stay behind to handle organizing the Pact in Tyria while we are away.

EdwinLi.1284:

^ Finally someone who understands how the story works.

From playing the personal Story for the 3rd time (working on Vigil character) it seems anet made our hero more as the “Hero who made guided the the Main Characters of GW2” rather than “the Hero destined to save the world”.

Yes we still have the our character as heroes of GW2 but not as the Hero or heroine destined to save the world but to Unit the real heroes of GW2 and guide them to fulfill their destiny they have been given.

It is the Destiny of the members of Destiny Edge to slayer all the Elder Dragons (and they now are fulfilling this destiny because we are there to guide them from the beginning to reunite Destiny Edge)

It was Traheanre’s Destiny to cleanse Orr (and we guided him to fulfill that destiny)

I won’t be surprised that when we fight Jormag, we will have to Guide the Hero or Heroine who will damage Jormag’s teeth ,the Norn legend foretold, to allow him or her to slay Jormag.

it’s kinda funny how people are always mentioning “mentor” characters, when in reality it’s more like we’re mentoring everyone, making sure the pieces fall into place so we can move on to the next task.

manwiththemachinegun.6873:

When you retake Claw Island, I don’t see the besieged armies crying Trahearne! Trahearne! I hear them saying, "It’s the Warmaster! NOW we have a chance!’

Mm, no, I don’t remember that at all. I remember something along the lines of an Asura saying “I calculate a 1 in 500 chance of us being successful at defeating Zhaitan,” to which a nearby Norn responds, “If that one is Trahearne, I’ll take those chances!”

To use your analogy, being FDR instead of Patton isn’t what the issue is, nor do I want to be FDR. The issue is being Patton in FDR: The Biography when it should be a story about Patton.

It’s the Personal Story, starring Trahearne! And introducing, The Player, as Trahearne’s Supportive Friend!

At the end of the day, it is what it is. The personal story isn’t going to change, and we’re stuck with it the way it is. The whole point of all of these unsatisfied players voicing their opinion on how Trahearne and his role in the story ruins the post 50-content for them is in the hopes that ArenaNet doesn’t continue to make this mistake with future personal story content. That they’ll see that maybe they could do a better job of making the player feel like a real hero, rather than the real hero’s yes man sidekick. As an added bonus, hopefully they’ll take Trahearne off center stage and stick him with a desk job at Fort Trinity, or they’ll kill him off, or even concoct some crazy situation where the players gets the joy of putting him in the ground themselves (there IS that theory about the sylvari, the Pale Tree, and a 6th Elder Dragon, you know…)

Personally, I think a good choice would be for there to be an option early on in the story to rescue Trahearne from something vs. rescuing someone else/a town/whatever like they have with Quinn in the street rat story for humans. That way, you and EdwinLi can save him because you like him, and you can go on to hang out with him in your home instance whenever you want, and the rest of us can breathe a sigh of relief and regain some sort of hope of being the main characters of our personal stories again.

EdwinLi.1284:

I won’t be surprised that when we fight Jormag, we will have to Guide the Hero or Heroine who will damage Jormag’s teeth ,the Norn legend foretold, to allow him or her to slay Jormag.

And this is a perfect example of what ArenaNet should NOT do. This should be something that the PLAYER does in the Norn personal story. Hell, even the human, sylvari, charr, or asura stories. But you’re right. Based on what we’ve seen up until now, I won’t be surprised either.

I found Trahearne’s sudden plot hijack pretty jarring on my Human Elementalist, but kept reading how people thought he was introduced to the Sylvari storyline more naturally, so I made my Sylvari Guardian my next priority for story missions. You know what killed it for me? When the Avatar of the Pale Tree points out that only two of her children have a Wild Hunt specifically targeting Zhaitan – Caithe, and the Player Character, and that Trahearne’s Hunt is to cleanse Orr of corruption.

Obviously, these things are related. Obviously, Trahearne’s Hunt is likely unfulfillable without Caithe’s and the PC Sylvari’s Hunts being completed. But they are not, in fact, the same Wild Hunt. It would have been a trivially easy distinction to make. “Hooray! The Player Character (and some story-significant NPCs who consider the PC a friend and equal, rather than a subordinate) grabbed Zhaitan by the dragonkitten and squeezed so hard that the elder dragon barfed to death, and that cleared the way for Trahearne to do some kind of funky reverse-Necromancy hippy tree voodoo all up in Orr’s ley lines! These are two related but distinct events! Congratulations to both of them for success at their respective tasks!”

Nope, no dice. Trahearne straight-up stole my Wild Hunt. I named my Sylvari after King Arthur’s hunting hound as a joke (Haha, he’s a DOGWOOD!), but it turned out to be pretty prophetic. Where he should have been the Merlin to my Arthur… I didn’t even get to be Lancelot when it became apparent that he’s Arthur, and be properly resentful of having my one true love (Guenevere is the storyline I guess) leashed to this impotent hack. No, my character is just as compelled as any other NPC to worship and adore him for taking credit for my accomplishments. I am his pet. I am his class feature. He hits F1 and I run out to do all the work.

I have 8 characters, and every intention of taking them all to 80. Not a single other one will be suffering through Story Missions past Trahearne’s introduction, with the exception of my other Sylvari, an Engineer, I suppose. No reason to punish him for some cameo appearances by the game’s Real Hero during the phase when the story is still pretending he’s the protagonist.

I think the opinion has been made quite vocal! :p No danger of Anet missing the point. I’m simply saying the evidence isn’t really there to support the idea that tree-bro is a Mary Sue. A term that has really lost all meaning from overuse.

If you need a quick refresher on how important your character was during the Claw Island campaign. Watch here.

2:00

8:27 on

“It’s the Warmaster, we’re saved!”

“Hail Warmaster! Good to see you!”

“Praise Wolf that you’re here Warmaster!”

“Warmaster! By the Alchemist’s Twisted Cogs!”

Later, A Norn herald praises you, an honor guard salutes you heading into battle, and after the fight, each Order does the same.

I can’t account for personal taste, but if it was any more blatant these soldiers would be making ME out to be a Gary Stu.

This was really a highlight of my personal story. As you charge to the front lines, each of the soldiers view you like Roland, or Hector or Beowulf taking to the field. The tide has turned, because you’re there.

I can’t help but think there’s a bit of circular thinking going on here. Trahearne sucks because he sucks? Why? Where is he stealing your thunder? Specifically what lines of dialog? What battles? All I’m hearing is generalities and “lol tree jesus”.

I’d actually feel better going alongside Destiny’s Edge here (and I freaking hate Logan, so yeah).

First: They have faults, they’re not perfectly boring characters.
Two: They’re Paragons of each race, and already have “real” fame. People would rally behind them.
Three: EVERY player is introduced to one of them right from the getgo. You start doing dungeons, and you’re piecing together the group as a whole, getting them to be one unit.

If Destiny’s Edge was calling the shots, seeing as, y’know, already dedicated heroes, it wouldn’t be so bad to be the sixth member, the “New guy” sidekick, because we’re already invested into this group.

If this nobody scholar who has never seen a battlefield before in his life shows up later, to “cleanse Orr” as a side thing, or becomes effectively the seventh member, that would work too. But as it was written? Ugh. It’s pretty much a Richard Knaak novel. Any Richard Knaak novel.

I’m kind of split on Trahearne. As a character, he’s definitely two-dimensional because we don’t find out much about his personality or his past (perhaps sylvari know more than the other races, but I doubt it’s anything significant). He’s just a scholar-turned-leader after a vision from his Mother, and I don’t think he ever expected to be leading Pact forces against Zhaitan.

I mean, think about it. Is there any reason he’s the Marshal OTHER than that vision? He’s compelled by Fate and tries to embrace his new role, and he uses our clout as heroes and figures of importance amongst our respective races to vouch for him as a leader, especially within our Order. He gets to command because we say he’s capable, and he develops somewhat as he tries to mature into his new role, but ultimately he still feels boring.

I haven’t completed the story yet – seems like a few missions left – but I don’t feel that he’s “stealing” my glory or manipulating me while he sits on his rump and consumes grapes fed by slave girls. He values me as a second-in-command, relying on me for advice and, more importantly, using my blade against the enemy. But he’s not afraid to get his hands dirty when the situations calls for it. Sure, the role could’ve been reversed and I could be the one leading him, but then I’d have to deal with all of the BORING parts of being a leader. The paperwork, the dispute handling, the blah, blah, blah… y’know what? This game is focused on combat, so give me a role that lets me fight. Every mission. I’m fine with that.

Cliff.2803:

And this is a perfect example of what ArenaNet should NOT do. This should be something that the PLAYER does in the Norn personal story. Hell, even the human, sylvari, charr, or asura stories. But you’re right. Based on what we’ve seen up until now, I won’t be surprised either.

Well Anet has placed our character the Hero who Guides the real Heroes of GW2 to complete their destiny. We’ve already seen in the Norm path, if you’ve chosen a certain background, that the weapon from the Norn legend is being built but who will wield it is not determined yet.

Our Hero may not be the Hero who is destined to slays the Elder Dragons and save the world because he or she is not the Hero of Legends everyone want our character to be but the Hero who made the Elder Dragon’s defeat possible by guiding the real Heroes of the Main Story.

Trahearne may have taken most of the focus during the Orr part of the story but he is the one given the Destiny to cleans Orr which is what allowed Zhaitan to be defeated. This task couldn’t be possible for him without us to guide him.

Our Mentors for each Order also made their choice at Claw Island because of our Hero. We showed them how to confront their own issues and what it means to fight and die for something worth fighting for and that thing worth fighting and dying for became our character.

I have to agree with the original poster, the missions later in the game were far less enjoyable as a result of having to play second fiddle to a character I found sanctimonious and unlikable.

Thrahearne is the biggest Mary Sue I’ve ever seen in a video game.

- He forces his way to you (his first sentence is in the lines of “I will follow you from now on, period”).
- He somehow knows all NPCs and is a legend among all orders for unknown reasons, even tho he’s a library rat with zero experience.
- He can enforce his decisions on NPCs and they will all bend to him.
- He leads you into a dead end and then goes “Hey commander I screwed up, any idea?”, then his solution is to spawn a few golems that will die in seconds.
- He steals your role without asking, and even dares to demote you to his second in command lakey.
- He constantly makes Jesus-like remarks as if he’s destined to save the world and heal Orr.
- He has no bond to you, he is forced in the story and does nothing to save your life or to be your friend, unlike Tybalt, Forgal or the Priory girl (forgot the name, my gf did that story path).
- He’s there just to make the average teenager believe that if they study a lot one day everyone will bow to them.
- He never did a wrong or anything, he’s the perfect being with pure heart and intentions.

I loved GW2 story to death until Trahearne.
Then I just skip all and try to get story done as quickly as possible.

i think people make trahearne sound much worse than he is, but i wouldn’t mind a better-written character. better is always a good thing.