Guild Wars 2

Now I know that the game does not follow the same logic as other MMO’s but imo the above are still needed.

As an elementalist I am constantly attracting the enemy aggro. I will enter combat about half way down the elites life bar and still as I enter I get targeted as if I stole his lunch money.

I would even die and then run back to combat and instantly have all agro on me. This is quite annoying considering I am a clothy.

As for DPS meters, This would just be good to know for those trying to build up a Power character.

Well, first of all, there is no damage or value based aggro system, so you can’t have an aggro meter. Some enemies focus you if you are doing too much damage, other just because you are a ranged class or they pick you by random.

Damage meters are useless to most people cause most people don’t know how to read them. Just knowing the dps of a player isn’t enough, you have to also know a lot about the game machenics, the mobs he is fighting, how their skills affect his dps and most important the role he was playing during this fight and so on.
If you just want to get the highest dps against an immobile object you don’t need a damage meter, just use some math.

Nachtenbel you are missing the point. Candle was suggesting a tool or addon that is OPTIONAL to the users who would like to enhance their gameplay. Do not assume people cannot read them and even if they can’t they can always learn. Learning about your statisitics in the game is Keen for executing brilliant strategies that are reliant on a hairline of calculated precisions. We are not asking Damage meters only, but all other reading like you suggested that can affect it to be displayed as well. (eg evasions made, rezzes made, healing done, aggro is a MUST, otherwise it makes NO SENSE in enemy fights) I understand theyre trying to dodge being another WOW, but TBH. this game is EXTREMELY beautiful in its own way that it already surpassed WOW imo. However, the tools that WOW had was the reason why it has also become extremely successful==== the idea of a friendly community is honestly a great virtue, but that is not REALITY. The reality is, " There is always someone better" therefore people are always gonna find out, and pride will be made and destroyed. Without the recognition of these factors is like assuming that everyone can live perfect lives without any form of conflict. sorry, throwing my philosophy being an ancient MMO guru of many genres =)

People are trying to voice their opinion to make this MMO into every other MMO around, please stop this. No trinity, no add-ons, no aggro meters, they are not needed.

Valento.9852:

People are trying to voice their opinion to make this MMO into every other MMO around, please stop this. No trinity, no add-ons, no aggro meters, they are not needed.

This.

Dps meters would bring in some stupid competition between players, like it does in other mmos. Right now you’re good if you can keep yourself and other player alive during a fight.

I’d like to know which scrub isnt pulling their weight in dungeons so i can kick them before they get the end boss chest and tokens.

Well obviously the one who is dying nonstop or not attacking would be the one not pulling their weight.

Not always.

Sometimes you get stuck with those magic find users which do less damage and make dungeon runs slower. Then i will know who it is and can kick them.

The mobs AI are designed and intended to have their own preference in picking his target, this created an unpredictable aggro mechanics. This is more or less increased the randomness of combat and created more dynamic combat environment and makes reflexes and all rounded build more rewarding.

DPS meters are notorious for being misused by people who have no clue. It would be nice to have a Master of Damage to test builds against, however.

Schnuffles.5369

Sometimes you get stuck with those magic find users

The proper fix to that is not implementing DPS meters, but removing MF. Or making it affect the whole party.

Noid.2871:

DPS meters are notorious for being misused by people who have no clue. It would be nice to have a Master of Damage to test builds against, however.

Schnuffles.5369

Sometimes you get stuck with those magic find users

The proper fix to that is not implementing DPS meters, but removing MF. Or making it affect the whole party.

God, this! Please remove the Magic Find attribute.

Aggro has a few variables to consider that are unique to GW2, see and learn them at the wiki page on Aggro.
Still, some creatures have their own rules to figure out who they’ll attack, which means you could see all the aggro bar you want, but you won’t be clearer knowing why you are getting the pain stick or how to get it off you in that situation. It will come down to your skill in all cases.
The aggro rules are “just guidelines, anyway!”.

LFM fractal lvl 10 must have over 4k dps or kicked !

LFM lvl 80 expl dungeon must have 3k + DPS or kicked !

LFM dungeon must have 3k agro or kicked !

LFM dungeon must have full exotics and 4k + DPS or kicked

where have we heard this before hmmmmm

this is why anet have banned addons, it destroys the game and makes it “best ppl only” and ruins it for ppl who just want to do the encounter with out worring about dps this dps that.

look what happend to WoW, first it was gear score now its Ilvl (built into character panal) and ofc a dps requirement for a raid / dungeon thats far over the top.

yes i would like a dmg meter to see how my glass cannon thief does, but to be honnest id rather not have it, as all i have to do is look at my screen and see all the lovely red numbers on my screen to know im pounding the boss to dust.

oo and about agro. when doing plinx chain event and the champ spawns at the end, that guy refuses to let go of agro on 1 person.

example, i use my thief and play P/P glass cannon,
i know for a fact its only a matter of time before he locks onto me and wont leave me alone, even if he kills me and a player resses me he suddonly turns around and comes right for me even if i didnt shoot him after ressing.
even stealthing has no affect on that nasty ugly thingy.

so some wierd agro system to stop certain builds / gear from standing still and nukeing, or he really really hates asura thiefs !

No thank-you. I don’t want it at all.

There is no need for that in this game. In fact, not having DPS or Aggro meters clearly illustrates the fact that they are not necessary. You can find a random group and succeed just find without a DPS or Aggro meter.

Keep them away from this game, now and forever.

YES PLEASE. Add them. Because why not? If someone doesn’t need one, he won’t use it, zero change for him. I am curious how changing gear affects my character’s DPS, same with traits. I want to know the numbers. Please add it.

Do not want. These things have turned every other MMO out there into a spreadsheet and are widely abused. Honestly, in GW2 you only have to look at a player to see if they’re very badly geared, and you only have to watch them for a minute or so to see if they know what they’re doing. Party chat is also a dead giveaway.

Keep the system as it is. If you’re catching too much aggro, back off and let others take the heat off you for a little while before jumping back in.

Than just make DPS meters only for our own character??

They should make us be able to Inspect eachothers gear

i would like to know if my group had a magic find leeching ashole and brings down the whole group

read what i posted further up this thread.

this is why they should not add damage meters or threat meters !

Kuruptz.4782:

They should make us be able to Inspect eachothers gear

i would like to know if my group had a magic find leeching ashole and brings down the whole group

So much this. Right now the only giveaway are stacks of luck.

Person 1: Look at how much dps I did this dps meter just proves how awesome I am.

Person 2: Except you didn’t debuff you didn’t res, you didn’t heal, you didn’t cc. Basically you sucked at playing your character.

DPS meters are for kitten elitists who don’t havea clue.

It appears that both a DPS meter and an Aggro meter detract from the fact that success depends on much more than these numbers, which seems to be the way Arena Net wanted the game to be.
Gear, traits, and skill all play on outcomes. If any range of events could be won through on just one or even two of them, then Arena Net might see the need to change those events to fulfill the intent of active, responsive battle.
Getting and losing aggro depends on understanding how aggro works and knowing how to use your skills to mitigate damage (including the vital, non-scalar things Conner mentioned above, such as buffing, debuffing, rezzing, healing, interrupting, holding, dodging, elite skill, etc).
Doing damage individually or as a team depends on having on-par gear, knowing your own class and weapon/utility rotation enough to trait appropriately, and knowing how to act in combat (see again the non-damage, but very important behaviours Conner listed above).
I suspect Arena Net cares equally about those latter things as they do about damage output, and would design content and creature AI for it.

Schnuffles.5369:

Not always.

Sometimes you get stuck with those magic find users which do less damage and make dungeon runs slower. Then i will know who it is and can kick them.

And this is exactly why we don’t need this suggestion. I agree I don’t particularly like the idea of people running entire dungeons in magic find gear, IMO magic find should have just been left to food and boosters not gear but that’s besides the point. If you really want specific builds in or not in your parties then you should request them and ask to see some of their gear if it’s that big a deal. The reason for this being is I don’t mind having at least one person in the squad specced mostly to enhance their support capabilities which often means a lot less damage than others. And regardless, I’d rather have a good player with crappy gear in my team opposed to a bad player with great gear. Kick people because they don’t know how to play and are letting your squad down, not because you disagree with their gear choice or damage output.

As to ele’s getting aggro very easily on some bosses/mobs, I see this a lot on my ele and others too when I’m on a different toon, I get the impression one of the aggro mechanics is to go for the nearest player with the least amount of HP and/or Toughness which would be ele’s in most occasions. Which usually I’d say would be a bad design but… I want my clever AI mechanics back from beta anyway :/ the kinda that is commonplace in GW1, mobs that choose a target based on threat or squishyness and don’t always sit in your aoe’s like they don’t know they’re there. We could do with some ways to.. not necessarily control aggro like taunting but instead inconsistently be able to change it. Like if Dazes/interrupts/knockdowns/etc had a chance to make the target choose a new target. Maybe it does already? hmm, something to watch for.

DPS meters, whatever. If you really want em, fine, you could stare at the combat log and/or videos to work that stuff out anyway.

Aggro meters will not work because there is no single number that represents a mob’s aggro like in old games like WoW or EQ. The AI in GW2 is much more complex than that and it works differently for different mobs/bosses too.

Nayaru.4716:

We could do with some ways to.. not necessarily control aggro like taunting but instead inconsistently be able to change it. Like if Dazes/interrupts/knockdowns/etc had a chance to make the target choose a new target. Maybe it does already? hmm, something to watch for.

I think this is kind of a cool idea although difficult to balance. Eles would benefit but Mesmers would be untouchable (even more than they are already).

Successful PVE is more about survivability and utility, not standing there mindlessly casting fireball.

The best thing about this game is the complete lack of aggro meters and boss mods. I can’t stress how refreshing it is when fighting a boss that I actually have to watch his animations in order to see whether I need to dodge that big one-shotter, or getting aggro and then taking steps to drop it or transfer it to someone else. In WoW I would have had 4 or 5 mods that blurted out an airhorn, sent me a text message, paged me, sent an email and fax to let me know that the boss was 10 seconds away from using his big attack. No thanks. Not anymore.

DPS meters won’t work in this title because there are too many choices in classes and cause of the way that each class has a different set of damage amounts for things like condition damage. And dps meters would break the gaming community up even more.

Now aggro meters would work out well because then we could easily see when the boss suddenly wants to chew our face off while there’s a million AOE affects going off at once.

xiv.7136:

Aggro meters will not work because there is no single number that represents a mob’s aggro like in old games like WoW or EQ. The AI in GW2 is much more complex than that and it works differently for different mobs/bosses too.

Not quite sure. While there are certain actions that will bump you to the top and keep you there, it still feels like there is some kind of general aggro score in there.

digiowl.9620:

xiv.7136:

Aggro meters will not work because there is no single number that represents a mob’s aggro like in old games like WoW or EQ. The AI in GW2 is much more complex than that and it works differently for different mobs/bosses too.

Not quite sure. While there are certain actions that will bump you to the top and keep you there, it still feels like there is some kind of general aggro score in there.

You’re missing the point though, even if there is a “score”, there are too many other factors that effect aggro besides who has the highest number… meaning any type of tool to measure it is completely useless.

If i’ve learned anything (especially from my SWTOR days) people that don’t like DPS/HPS metrics really don’t like DPS/HPS metrics. Like religiously.

Personally, I’d love some sort of feedback, more than the combat log, as to my performance. Not just “oh it’s dead i must be doing something right.” I want to know which combos put out the most dps and know when i put out the most dps compared to my comrads in a boss fight. But i enjoy competitive play so take it for what it is.

Aggro meter is not really nedded.

But DPS-meter? Please yes.

Currently all weapon and builds comparisons are very subjective. We need a way to get hard data. Also this will help those people who want to play effectively. And also will help to identify MF leachers.

Just give up with requesting raids, meters, trinity and other autopilot ezmode WoW stuff, they made it pretty clear that it will never happen.

Necro thread? I want some! Arise thread from 3 months ago. Arise!!!
_Consider this, take your low level character into a PvE map that the character is not “ready” to be in, where the enemy NPCs have pink or other colored text when targeted. You know, the color presents that the NPCs are Very Dangerous and will aggro on you from a greater distance than they would if you were higher rank than the suggested ranks posted for the map.

There in lies the 1st question to be put to the OP, should they ever return to their thread for some odd reason after 3 months…. what situation are they speaking of when they talk about aggro?? what is the context? Are they using a rank 48 Elementalist in Sparkfly Fen??

As for the DPS meter…. i guess you want a target dummy that doesn’t fight back and you can test builds against it. Seeing what variations to build does to DPS output? (DCUO has these indestructible test dummies in the headquarters to be punched and zapped for one to see their DPS output numbers or practice combo moves on) imo, not needed in GW2, but it couldn’t hurt to have optional indestructible target dummies in a practice zone of a city. Wait… aren’t they (target dummies) in the Myst????!! (….the Combat tab of chat window ain’t sufficient? what is this “meter” exactly?)

They could make it only apply for the mists, while slamming those golems.

DPS meter only favours the major AoE damage dealers. Classes which focus on single target dps suffer the most. People are at different skill levels, and this will certainly create a divide.

I don’t want to see this game become a statistical nerd-fest like WoW. It’s all people care about, dps, gear, stats, achievements. And then the fun is thrown out the window because you don’t fit into the meta.

The purpose of the DPS-meter is not to see big numbers from punching dummies. It is used to creat a long-term picture of damage dynamics during the real fight.

I.e. you can see a very big numbers by doing HB on dummies. But in the real dungeon being rooted in one place is quite dangerous, so you’ll use your HB skill far less often. Hence we need to know how will it affect our overall DPS during that boss fight.

It is a really handy tool for optimization.

Fine. But a player’s DPS should be visible to the player ONLY.

Say NO to Playerbase Fracturing.

Kuruptz.4782:

They should make us be able to Inspect eachothers gear

i would like to know if my group had a magic find leeching ashole and brings down the whole group

Don’t care about meters. Would personally use one, however.

This post, though, needs to happen. I want an inspect feature. I’m sick of finding out after a run starts that some scrub in full MF is making my run take longer. Get a couple of the leeches together and you may as well just exit and start over.

Puchbol.9035:

Fine. But a player’s DPS should be visible to the player ONLY.

Would be nice to get this feature even in such form. Though the issue of MF leachers need to be dealt with.

I really wouldn’t mind monsters at least having a numerical health amount.

“Agro” meters don’t make any sense in this game since there’s no traditional agro table.

About a DPS meter… well, eventually, if it was only for personal info only visible to yourself, to ameliorate your own gameplay. But it’s wasted developer time only breeding elitism in my opinion.

And about an “inspect” feature… another feature that breeds elitism and therefore should never be added to this game.

I don’t understand why people are so against “elitism” but don’t have any issues with leachers.
Unless it’s the leachers themselves who object DPS-meters and inspect features.

Seriously We need to be ABLE TO INSPECT PEOPLE TO SEE WHAT MOFO IS MAGIC FIND LEECHER AND Slows DOWN THe dungeon runs by 9000000%

Forget dps meters just add Inspect Nothing else i really wanna se how many of those a holes exist

Kuruptz.4782:

Seriously We need to be ABLE TO INSPECT PEOPLE TO SEE WHAT MOFO IS MAGIC FIND LEECHER AND Slows DOWN THe dungeon runs by 9000000%

Forget dps meters just add Inspect Nothing else i really wanna se how many of those a holes exist

Because finishing the last boss in 7 minutes is sooooo much more draining than finishing him in 5.

What’s next? “OMG! He’s watching the cutscene! KICK HIM!”

As said above, there is no agro in this game so having a meter for that is useless.

The magic find stat is a stupid mechanic and needs to be removed regardless of how much damage you realistically lose from it (it’s not much because most are swapping a defensive stat for it anyway, and most people can manage dungeon encounters in this game).

Now as for DPS meters, I’ll pass on this one. This game isn’t even balanced properly to warrant using DPS meters. All it will do is allow Warriors to participate in dick waving tournements because no other class in this game can compete with their single target damage in any situation.

If we didn’t have engineers and rangers fighting for a distant last place, everyone else miles ahead of them except with warriors and thieves pulling ahead of the middle pack by a mile with guardians getting an invite regardless I could see having a meter in place to help players become more efficient. But right now the meter may as well not even work for anything but warriors.

Isslair.4908:

I don’t understand why people are so against “elitism” but don’t have any issues with leachers.
Unless it’s the leachers themselves who object DPS-meters and inspect features.

I’m no leecher, I don’t even own magic find gear, but I’m strictly against an “inspect” feature. To avoid the leechers and other nuisances which are inevitable in MMO communities, I stick mostly to guild groups or people on my friend list.

It’s rather have them remove the stupid “magic find” stat. Or make “magic find” an enchant you can buy with Karma and that you can put on any gear you want to without affecting the other stats.

Puchbol.9035:

Because finishing the last boss in 7 minutes is sooooo much more draining than finishing him in 5.

Yes, spending 40% more time on a dungeon run is really big.

Korrigan.4837:

To avoid the leechers and other nuisances which are inevitable in MMO communities, I stick mostly to guild groups or people on my friend list.

So, if you are doing your dungeons with guildies and friends, why do you worry about “elitism”? Friends won’t kick you for slacking, won’t they?

But for people who rely on PUGs, inspect feature and\or partywide DPS-meter are desperately needed.

I won’t restate the obvious – Aggro meters are pointless in a game without traditional aggro tables.

Now to the DPS meters — I hope to God they don’t ever make an appearance in this game. It’s one thing to say that if you don’t want them, you don’t have to use them, but it’s a pretty narrow sighted view. The said the same thing of WoW, and now a DPS meter is required for any sort of co-op play. To think that it would be any different in GW2, and that a DPS meter/DPS requirement would be any less mandatory is just naive.

Even making it personal only, someone would create a site to upload to screenshots of the DPS meter with date/time/character name, etc — even personal meters would gradually build the same DPS requirements in other games.

As for the “leechers,” I haven’t run into it — it might be a problem, I dunno. I don’t like the idea of an Inspect — I like the fact that everything about my character is known only to me. What I think might be cool is to have certain buffs add to a general character ‘glow’ or have an glow intensity someone on the character to indicate general magic find (if it really is a huge issue…)

There are many, less intrusive ways to show what buffs someone has.