Guild Wars 2

The topics of item-progression, grinding, content-gateing and such, associated with the added content of lost shores, shows the community has different needs and wishes which seem to exclude each other.

Either way there will be unhappy customers.

Well maybe there is a way to please both parts of the community?

How about two different gamemodes of GW2?

Lets call one the basic mode (with exotic stats being the highest ones, no gated content, with fancy stuff easy to get, the manifesto written in obsidian stone and so on) and the other the promode (HARDmode, hard grind, truely unique items, itemprogession, maybe new max levels, you have to work hard and long for your stuff and so on).

Both would have different pve and wvwvw servers, but could meet at spvp.

For Anet it would require two different teams to manage those gamemodes, but there are a lot of synergies in terms of developing content and it could please much more customers.

Imho it would be a bold but profitable move.

I for my part would love to play vanilla mode, i had a lot of fun the last two month in gw2. But im tired of grinding, have tons of things to do outside of gw2 and if the current development direction continues, my interest will vanish sooner or later (first gated content usually).

What do you think? Would it split the community too much? Could it work?

Edit: changed the title from “Vanilla GW2 gamemode?”. Hopefully clarifing the topic better now. With my nerdy history of games like TOME (that game is hard and grindy), i supposed vanilla to be fitting.
Edit2: typo, changed the names i suggested for the gamemodes to cause less emontional issues (this suggestion is not about what approach “is better”, its about offering both. I might be seen guilty opting for one side when stateing my personal preferences. But i only wanted to add what i hope that suggestion could bring for players like me as an example for the profits).

marianitten.1247:

So, you want a different server without the X content, because you dont want the X content?

I have an AMAZING IDEA: Don’t do the X Content.

/SOLVED.

^THIS… you don’t need to run the new dungeons or get the new items if you don’t want to, if you could do the previous content without them, then you’ll still be able to do it

The game is three months old and you complain that you demand a vanilla server?
I really do not get the whining about ascended
really not
this is a perfekt example of vocal minorites

It’s because you HAVE to get the new shinnies gear if you want to stay competitive, because let’s face it gear does matter and whoever says otherwise is a scrub (no offense please don’t ban me again). I agree with you OP but to me it’s too little too late all i can say is MANIFESTO!

Thx for the feedback, i fear you dont get my point.

Its not like i dont want content, i would like it to be presented in different forms for different needs.
Take unique items for example: On hardmode there would be only one item with that skin, with stats higher than any other, while the same skin in vanilla could be a rare chestdrop with exotic stats. At the moment most content would be the same only with diffenent rules.

Over time of course there could be content that is gamemode specific, mounts would spring to my mind as an example.

edit: tipo + MANIFESTO

Wayfarer.2051:

I really do not get the whining about ascended

Sorry, you not understanding is not an argument.
In general people: you have several threads to talk/flame/bicker about the gear one way or the other. This is not the place.

@OP: agreed. Should be easy enough, most of it’s just adding multipliers and making drops more rare on the hardcore server. Generally the content is the same.

Splitting the community is not an issue because it’ll happen either way. The two won’t mix – grinder’s gonna be where the grind is. Either they’re split on the same server, or on seperate servers, not a big difference imo.

Mods/alternative game modes aren’t even that bold, countless games are made with them after all. Can satisfy both groups of players instead of giving both sides half what they wanted (and leaving them grudging). So, if NCSoft wants to keep both sides in the game, that’s an obvious move to make, or at least a very serious consideration.

Azaziel.3608:

marianitten.1247:

So, you want a different server without the X content, because you dont want the X content?

I have an AMAZING IDEA: Don’t do the X Content.

/SOLVED.

^THIS… you don’t need to run the new dungeons or get the new items if you don’t want to, if you could do the previous content without them, then you’ll still be able to do it

Then i assume you won’t have any problems with all the willing non-grinders being issued cheap welfare ascended eq? You won’t have to accept them after all, so that shouldn’t be a problem for you.

Lionaeron.5724:

It’s because you HAVE to get the new shinnies gear if you want to stay competitive, because let’s face it gear does matter and whoever says otherwise is a scrub (no offense please don’t ban me again). I agree with you OP but to me it’s too little too late all i can say is MANIFESTO!

Umm gear is not a deciding factor, you should probably do a lil more research. Maybe I am a scrub, but I am a scrub that obviously doesn’t have the WoW mentality you do. Your signature is also a sign that you don’t understand how this game works, Zerg>Skill So now I am done with you.

Why do people insist that there has to be a separate server? I am agree with another poster. If you don’t like the new content don’t do it. You as a player will not be penalized for it, nothing in the game is going to punish you for it… unless of course you decided to do the new content. If I never do FoTM i will never need Ascended gear, will that affect me from doing Explore dungeons? NO

If I never go to the Lost shores area will that prevent me from getting World completion? No

So please tell me how any neww content affects you in any negative way of you playing the game. Cause if there is an honest to god good reason I will agree with you.

Please don’t say I can’t get Ascended gear if I don’t do the new content.

If you look at Legendary to Exotic weapon stats, the Legendary stats are roughly 10% higher than Exotics. Since Ascended gear is only slightly above Exotics ( as per Arena Net) your only looking at a 3 – 5% Max increase. So how does not having Ascended gear going to hamper your performance? What you do a Dungeon 20 Seconds slower than someone that has all Ascended Items? <——- if that is what your worried about, you have other issues to address here and it is not gear.

Thx for the replies.

Ill try it with an analogy (as some in this forum seem to enjoy them too):

Lets say i enjoy eating icecream and there is a shop that sells vanilla icecream and i like the flavor.
One day there is a sign announcing: We open a new store with just the best vanilla icecream in town.
Ok i liked their icecream, so i go to that shop and really: the best vanilla icecream in town.
Some customers ask for stratiatella icecream, so the owner puts some chocolate in and makes nice stratiatella, but for some reasons i like vanilla better.
If now some customers ask the shopkeeper if they can have some more vanilla icecream, what do you think the shopkeeper would do?
Pretty sure he would offer both, making happy those that like vanilla as well those that like stratiatella.

I think its pretty much about taste and about that you cant argue. Its diffenent flavors from one brand, think about it like cherry coke and clasic coke if you dont like icecream.

One thing id like to add: Its not either or, it think most players would have characters in both gamemodes, casuals that like to take a challange, hardmoders that like some twinks for the screenies for example.
I think different gamemodes will enrich the game for a lot of people (but i could be wrong, thats why i want to talk about this suggestion).

Some people need to get out of that black-white us-them view. Its about how anet can provide the best experience for most customers. Thats what my suggestion is about.

@Tenshi: thank you for actually answering to my questions. When i look at this forum i fear you could be right with your assumption about the community.

So maybe i should ask a bit different:

Would you like/dislike different gamemodes? Why? What could be better with or without? What problems do you see?

Ok
some clarification so you know the facts:

• there will be no gear treadmill. They merely raised the gear ceiling and already promised to not raise it again in the future.
• The ascended items are not required for any content that is not otherwise accessible without ascended and it will not be.
• Ascended and agony are supposed to be a way for players to completely test their limits and strife for ever more. Some.people just like grind and ANet tries to accommodate them. With the current system none is influenced by this decision.
• Running a second build of a game is an immense amount of work. ANet is already working on a small margin because of no.monthly fees. They try to.keep.it.slim. Adding another build is not economical.
• An additional server would be.completely.desolate! Why? Because only people who hate ascended too much to ignore it would play on it. Everyone else would merely ignore ascended but stay on normal servers in the hope to someday get some of it.
• As already said: in WvW zerg>skill>gear.
• That analogy with the ice just does not work. In GW2 you can “eat around the chocolate”: you simply never go FotM and never upgrade to ascended.

Wayfarer.2051:

Ok
some clarification so you know the facts:

• there will be no gear treadmill. They merely raised the gear ceiling and already promised to not raise it again in the future.

Untrue. They specifically refused to make such promise, because they didn’t want to lie (it was in a reddit AMA for a german community, you can google it if you want).

• The ascended items are not required for any content that is not otherwise accessible without ascended and it will not be.

According to Anet, above certain fractal level it should be impossible to advance deeper into FotM without agony resistance (not harder – impossible). Deeper levels of FotM are a content of their own, with better drop rates than anywhere else in the game (and with items that are not accessible everywhere else).

• Ascended and agony are supposed to be a way for players to completely test their limits and strife for ever more.

What is easier, doing the same content in Exotic or Ascended eq? If you want to test your limits, you don’t require things that would make it easier for you.

Some.people just like grind and ANet tries to accommodate them. With the current system none is influenced by this decision.

Optional grind indeed doesn’t influence other people. Anet specifically mentioned, that ascended eq and infusions are going to form a basis for the game from now on, so even they don’t consider it optional. Eventually everyone will be influenced by it, whether they like it or not.

• Running a second build of a game is an immense amount of work. ANet is already working on a small margin because of no.monthly fees. They try to.keep.it.slim. Adding another build is not economical.

Unfortunately, i have to agree with you here. A fork build would increase maintenance costs.

• An additional server would be.completely.desolate! Why? Because only people who hate ascended too much to ignore it would play on it. Everyone else would merely ignore ascended but stay on normal servers in the hope to someday get some of it.

Let’s be frank – most of the players have no hope of ever getting ascended eq. In fact, some of the people arguing for new tier did already say that they don’t want this “elite” eq to be common ever. Why would anyone that are not gear grinders themselves remain in such surroundings?

Perhaps you are afraid that it would be the “progressive” servers that would remain empty? Because we all know, that gear grinders require non-grinding crowd for their satisfaction (for them there is no progression if it doesn’t result in them being better than the common crowd).

• As already said: in WvW zerg>skill>gear.

Sorry, i can see that you don’t know too much about WvWvW. Unfortunately explaining this well would take a whole new thread, so i’ll put it in short version: those that think that zerg is the name of the game in WvWvW are usually those that consistently lose there.

• That analogy with the ice just does not work. In GW2 you can “eat around the chocolate”: you simply never go FotM and never upgrade to ascended.

You can’t. The gear grind cannot be separated from the whole game, and affects practically everything – because it shifts the whole development approach. And looking at the Anet messages so far it’s already happening.

Astral have you even read the thread by the designer on the news and announcement .board?
They made that promise there
the AMASS on German reddit was not.authorized to make such statements.
The deeper fractals.are identical to lower fractals in content. They are just harder. ANet stated they would hold true to their promise that content would be independent from gear.
Try to make some freaking points instead of just belitteling others and using the phase “let’s be frank” out of context.
Get your game on and go into WvW with a big guild. They mobilize lvl 20 camps to overcome an entire keep.
The ultimate fact remains that the financial payoff would not remedy the costs of a extra build. An extra development team.

ANet has just recently introduced the Ascended and are thinking of more ways to implement it.
You do realize that exotic dungeon armor takes.23 explorable runs o aquire ?
Thats an entire week of going the same dungeon every day three times.
You tell me that isn’t grind. You had this progression grind before just without progression. Bragging rights are nothing compared to the endless going to dungeons you have to.do.for it.
Without ascended rewards in dungeons there will barely left anyone left to play them within 5 months. And indeed look: maybe a few AC or Arah runs looked for in LA but everyone else is going fractals. Because fractlals is like a wunderbag of content. Never know what comes next. It’s modular structure is designed to be updated as they indeed said they’d do. Id rather grind fractals for a dozen hours than any other dungeon simply because it.still.promises progression and content to come. But still when the ways to get ascended come to the.old dungeons those dungeons will see a rebirth as well.

TL;DR: start making points. Read what the devs say instead of some unqualified dude on reddit. Open your eyes to the possibilities and let go of your whiny hate.

Wayfarer.2051:

Astral have you even read the thread by the designer on the news and announcement .board?
They made that promise there

No, they made a promise they won’t be introducing a new tier every 3 months. Which tells us exactly nothing.

The deeper fractals.are identical to lower fractals in content. They are just harder.

and have more and better loot.

ANet stated they would hold true to their promise that content would be independent from gear.

Nope, they said we should expect more of the agony-type mechanics in the future content.

Get your game on and go into WvW with a big guild. They mobilize lvl 20 camps to overcome an entire keep.

Few days ago i have seen a keep with over 20 players inside fall to two opponents. I have often seen the situation where less numerous zerg keeps consistently winning ofer a bigger one. I have seen many times how actions of ONE person can change server situation from consistent defeats to overwhelming victory.
So no, zerging is one of useful mechanics of WvWvW, but is definitely NOT how the game is being won.

The ultimate fact remains that the financial payoff would not remedy the costs of a extra build. An extra development team.

We don’t know that. As we don’t know which of the two servers would end up being financially inviable. Unless you have some hard data on it and can present it to us now.

You do realize that exotic dungeon armor takes.23 explorable runs o aquire ?
Thats an entire week of going the same dungeon every day three times.
You tell me that isn’t grind.

It is grind, of course. That’s why dungeon armor is not the base exotic eq – you grind for skin. Other armors are way more easily achievable. Craftable ones could have been bought at 2.5 gold at TP (or crafted by yourself). Karma sets are also easily purchased, especially now with karma jugs for daily and monthly. Compare 2.5 gold per piece with 70-100 gold per piece (or being accessible ONLY through RNG at higher levels of fractals – i don’t think you can buy/craft rings at all)
Compare dungeon token prices of exalted pieces per tokens gained in one run with the same in new Fractal dungeon (hint: getting a dungeon set requires 23 runs for whole set, while an_exotic_ backpiece from Fractals alone needs 80 – it still needs to be upgraded to ascended, which requires another 34 runs for Gift, and some additional investments).

You had this progression grind before just without progression. Bragging rights are nothing compared to the endless going to dungeons you have to.do.for it.

As i have said – you didn’t have to do it. There were others, far less grindy ways.

Without ascended rewards in dungeons there will barely left anyone left to play them within 5 months.

Oh, i agree, because of ascended items there is already hardly anyone left to run them.

Id rather grind fractals for a dozen hours than any other dungeon simply because it.still.promises progression and content to come.

And you think that’s good?

But still when the ways to get ascended come to the.old dungeons those dungeons will see a rebirth as well.

By that time there will be another new dungeon with new stuff. They already said that new ascended gear will come in alongside new content.

Read what the devs say instead of some unqualified dude on reddit.

Oh, i am reading what the devs said. I am reading it very carefully. That’s why i do see what’s been announced and what wasn’t.

Edit:
By the way, one of the solutions i (and many others) have proposed is indeed to make ascended eq easily accessible through other sources (at no more than twice the investment necessary to get exotic gear). It would solve the problem – assuming it would be introduced now, and not in half a year.
If the top gear remains hard to get for some (and practically unreachable for most), then the vanilla server is the only option remaining.

Heya,

@Astralporing: Thanks for adding some perspective to the facts.
While i aggree with most of what you said, it might be fertile to stick to the topic of different gamemodes and just link to the threads focusing on those discussions.
Im guilty of derailing a lot too and understand the temptation…

@Wayfarer: Thank you for bringing in some valuable points about the gamemodes.

First the the question: Will the efford doing two gamemodes pay off?

I would argue yes, because at the very moment the differences would be really small, as 99% of the code would be the same.
It would require some work to make a login interface, seperate existing characters and servers, working off those that falsely took their character to the wrong gamemode and stuff like that in the begining and two lifeteams supporting the two gamemodes for maintence.

But as i said: there would be a lot of synergies too: artwork, servercode, gameengine would be the same. And i believe, if one of the lifeteams would fix a bug in one gamemode it would be much easier to fix it in the other too. Or if one of the teams finetunes a dungeon or an area the other gamemode would profit too.

And on the other hand the payoffs: Getting a share on two marketsegments instead of only one.
And again: a lot of synergies: Players that enjoy both modes for example. Or think of a hardmodegamer that has real life buddys that are more casulal and only play few time, but in gw2 they can easy play together and enjoy their time in easymode, while he has his challange when they are offline too.

I think the overal brand gw2 would attract a lot more players than only one gamemode not pleasing the taste of a part of the customersmarket.

Second the question: How would the community react?

Would the servers of one gamemode be desolated?
From my perception there is a lange enough audience of people that prefeer the manifesto-gamemode to the itemprogression-gamemode to make this work. They could start with 3 servers (just make wvwvw possible) and see if it works. I think most of the roleplaying communities out there would prefeer a gamemode where you can get your favorite outfit easier (=giving more time to roleplay) too for example.

Sorry for the double post.

But there is another point worth talking about, that came to my mind when thinking about will it payoff, will one gamemode be deserted:

How about the aspect of voting with our wallets?

Im not sure if i would like the idea of anet allocating resources arcording to the money players spend in the different gamemodes.

One the one hand i am a conscious customer, i decide where to spend my money. And i am aware i have some power doing this, because the shop/producer i buy from will earn my money – the one i dont buy from dont. The option is already there in online games as you can decide to spend money or not.

But how about anet making it more explicit as to allocate it to the content you like?
That could gain them valuable marketdata, giving them a much more solid and acurate measure where to earn money, as current datascources like online activity do.
Thinking it to an end, they could even implement a system that lets you allocate the money you spend on gems on certain areas i.e. on wvwvw or dungeons.

On the other hand it could boost the split/competion between different factions of the playerbase (well i bet a moneyspending competion between the players would be appreciated by most companies).

More feedback on this and the topic of different gamemodes is appreciated.