Guild Wars 2

Or maybe make parry block only 75% of damage.

That might work as well, Isslair.
Will edit suggestion.

The command to Parry could be:
a) either C
b) or V while standing still and without pressing a direction (pressing direction+V would Dodge)

Nice idea, i like it.

Would it be an ability that you hold down the key through a duration, or would it be a single press and you channel it similar to the thiefs spear block attack?

Hm… parry (and also sprint) could be nice additions. I’d like to see them at least try if they can implement it.

The main problem I see is the extra control needed.
Could it be the same button as dodge, so it’ll parry instead dodge when you don’t press a direction?

It’ll be even better if parry required timing. Time the parry well, and you may reduce damage from a single attack up to 66% and it’ll take less endurance.
Time it too soon, and you’ll take the entire hit.
Parry it too late, and you’ll reduce the hit only up to 33% (like a 1-time Protection boon).

Yeah, nice suggestions. It would add more depth to combat system and will stimulate players to pay more attention to what’s happening on screen instead of random buttonmashing while running in circles.

@Zzxy.8175
I’d say fixed duration, but you should be able to cancel it by pressing a direction or skill.

@MithranArkanere
Timing would be great, if this wasn’t an MMO.
In MMO you are very vulnerable to lag, specially in competitive environment.
So “timing” based mechanics need to be forgiving, or it will fail completely.

In terms of control, I think the best bet is pressing V as long as you:
- are not pressing any direction
- are not auto-running

I also like the idea of Sprint by using Endurance.

I’ll edit original suggestion.

Added Safe Fall and Downed Dodge/Parry mechanics.
I think they’d make great additions.

This would definitely make Vigor more attractive.

oh, this reminds me.

someone once suggested a tumble at 50% endurance cost. if you’re knocked down, you can tumble at the cost of endurance.

of course, that would require some balancing.

Will add that idea to the OP.

Nurvus.2891:

@Zzxy.8175
[…]
@MithranArkanere
Timing would be great, if this wasn’t an MMO.
In MMO you are very vulnerable to lag, specially in competitive environment.
So “timing” based mechanics need to be forgiving, or it will fail completely.

[…]

Both GW1 and GW2 have timing already. Timed interruptions are crucial for vitory. Same with timed dodges.

But one thing is timing like a Bemani game or Squaresoft’s Vagrant Story, and another timing in GW.

I believe GW works on ‘ticks’ of time, and that each one is 1/4 seconds. So that’s the minimum time you have to respond to something.

To make timing for parry fair, the number of ticks within you’ll get maximum effectiveness would have to be balanced properly, if it can’t be done with 1/4 seconds, then 1/2, if not with 1/2, then 3/4. but I believe it could be done.

Vagrant Story, how I miss that game…
…anyway, I just said, timing-based mechanics need to be forgiving.
I didn’t mean your suggestion is invalid.
I just meant it would need to be carefully implemented due to the frequent presence of lag in MMOs.

Here’s how I would do it with Parry:

• Parry lasts 1 second.
• Isslair.4908 suggested that Parry should prevent only 75% damage.
  In that line of thought, imagine that it starts at 100%, but every 1/4 s, it loses 25% effectiveness. So:
  - 1 – 0.76 s = 100%
  - 0.75 – 0.51 s = 75%
  - 0.50 – 0.26 s = 50%
  - 0.25 – 0.01 s = 25%

This would make timing important, without being too unforgiving.

Nurvus.2891:

Suggestion #2 – Sprint (idea by MithranArkanere.8957)
Command: Hold C while running
Cost: Probably 30% initial Endurance cost, then 15% every second (since you gain 5% Endurance per second, it takes 7 seconds to spend 100% Endurance).
Effect: Spend Endurance to run at X% bonus speed (stacks with Swiftness).

Yes please!

I think this is a great idea. +1 from me!

I like this a lot. Seems like it would take a lot of coding to implement but if arenanet has plans to develop sPvP in the future then this is something I would really like to see

I like the tumble and sprint ideas, they could also expand the endurance gauge’s size to more bars or something.

sounds overly technical. id rather they just gave three bars of endurance than some complex parry standing whatever formula. thats just a personal preference.

poe lyfe, I merely suggested various possible ways to balance Parry.
It doesn’t mean all of them have to apply.

The goal is being cheaper than Dodge, but have appropriate disadvantages.

Unknownsole.4672:

I like the tumble and sprint ideas, they could also expand the endurance gauge’s size to more bars or something.

or they can just split the endurance bar in more segments, and keep it the same size.

Yes, it would make sense splitting it in a way that makes it easy for you to measure whether you have enough Endurance to use Parry (25% or 33%), Dodge (50%), etc.

After some thought I can tell you why parry and (taking back my earlier statement) sprint are not that great of ideas, they both make it so you can use endurance instead of a skill to activate an ability for parry its shield/block skills and for sprint its swiftness skills.

The tumble is a good idea but it removes the key part of a knockdown skill lock, which is what makes knockdown so effective. Saying that if implemented it should match endurance consumption of dodging since in an effect they both have effect blocking powers. A good reasoning for tumble is when mobs jump you and chain knockdown so that you can’t do anything to combat it except expecting knockdowns and using stability beforehand.

Lastly the some what needs an increase to 3 bars, keeping in mind how helpful dodging is in the first place, so that it can be kept in control.

Unknownsole, that’s no different from the skills that make you evade, or jump back, or leap ahead, or charge to an area, or teleport – replacing the function of Dodge.

Endurance is a resource. A limited resource.
Currently, Dodge does the job of Blocking + Charge/Leap/Teleport.
I’m suggesting a stationary Dodge.

One of the big drawbacks of being stationary, is that it doesn’t get you out of dangerous AoE like Dodge can.
You can also move while using most Block skills.
You can use Block skills while out of Endurance.

Sprint can give you a small edge against kiters, by allowing you to rush at them.
It also allows you to move around faster out of combat, wich will make exploration a little less dull.

Furthermore, see this:
Player A has movement speed utility, and uses Sprint.
Player B has movement speed utility, and uses Parry/Dodge.
Player C has Block utility, and uses Sprint.
Player D has Block utility, and uses Parry/Dodge.

Player B and C will play somewhat similarly.
Player A will be the most mobile.
Player D will be the most defensive.

^ the problem, however, would be that you’d start adding too many keys.

how would the parry work? would it consume endurance beforehand? sprint could be done by holding down the dodge key, but what of people that use double tap?

tumble, functionally, could be mapped exactly the same way as dodging (double tap or key pressed), because you can’t dodge while knocked down, so it makes sense to use the “endurance button/command” to get back on your feet.

tumbling would probably require more endurance consumption than a dodge though, because while it isn’t a full evade (and as such you lose health to the attack), the desired effect of knocking down is nulled despite the attacked player having failed to evade.

Well in the first post I say how each action is performed.

Currently, pressing V will automatically make you dodge backwards (or forward if you’re auto-running).

With the introduction of Parry, pressing V without any directions AND standing still would Parry, and to dodge you’d always have to press a direction+V.

If you can’t Sprint while swimming, Sprint can be done by holding X (swim down) while running.
Does not increase strafing speed.

Alternatively, if Sprint can be use while swimming to swim faster, it could be done with a new key, like C.

i already have X bound to other things.

the key here is not cluttering the keyboard with new keys, and at the same time not cluttering the same key with multiple commands.

of course sprinting wouldn’t increase strafing speed, strafing is how you kite in this game. sprinting would also not allow you to attack (which gives swiftness yet another advantage over sprinting), being meant only as a gap closer or a runaway skill.

Yes, I agree Sprinting should not allow to attack.
Editing suggestion.

I like this!

I also want the ability to roll/dodge at the end of a fall by pressing V or C or double tapping W, A, S, or D right before landing, negating some fall damage.

Khetnen.7231:

I like this!

I also want the ability to roll/dodge at the end of a fall by pressing V or C or double tapping W, A, S, or D right before landing, negating some fall damage.

as long as it doesn’t stack with the traits that drop fall damage by 50%, it could be done.

It could reduce damage by a percentage, but still allow you to die if the fall is too big.
You would need to use the Dodge before hitting the ground.

If the game calculates you’ll die anyway, you just die.
If the game calculates you’ll survive with the Dodge, the animation is performed when you hit the ground.

Nurvus.2891:

It could reduce damage by a percentage, but still allow you to die if the fall is too big.
You would need to use the Dodge before hitting the ground.

If the game calculates you’ll die anyway, you just die.
If the game calculates you’ll survive with the Dodge, the animation is performed when you hit the ground.

what i mean is that by adding yet another method of resisting fall damage, if those two methods stacked, then you’d be able to reach places you shouldn’t.

I see, but I think fall damage grows exponentially.
Wich means just a few meters more and it’s certain death even if you stack fall damage reduction.

As long as it’s multiplicative instead of aditive.
So you’d reduce 50% of the full fall damage with Trait, and then 50% of those 50% with “Safe Fall”, taking 25% of the full damage = 75% reduction.

On a side note, I’m having real trouble getting any replies to my Trait thread – I don’t know why – could you give me a hint on whether the thread is poorly clarified or something?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Trait-Concepts-Superior-Elite-Stats/first#post651706

I think it might also make sense if Parry interrupts multi-hit melee skills.

My thinking is this:

1. When you Dodge, you get out of the way, effectively avoiding the whole multi-hit attack.
2. This doesn’t affect projectile attacks in the same way as they “home in” on you.
3. When you Parry, you could disrupt the melee skills used against you, interrupting them.
4. This might only work in the first 0.5 seconds of Parry, assuming the idea of Parry becoming less effective as time passes.

I think Endurance should start regenerating faster while standing still for at least 1 second, to stop the bunny syndrome of endless kiting.

By giving better Endurance regeneration while standing still, it doesn’t promote static combat – instead it replaces constant movement with timed dodging/parrying, wich in my opinion is a thousand times more fun than constantly running in circles while casting – something that melee can’t do very well, btw.

Cool ideas,

I’m not sure how it would work in practice but it sounds and looks good on “paper”. It would be fun if ANet could experiment with this internally.

Anything that moves the gameplay a little bit away from endless kiting will be a good change.
Dodging/Parrying occasionally instead of being constantly on the move will make the game more immersive, fun and actually more challenging.

Good stuff guys, I like the sound of these ideas. They are adding something extra and raising the skill cap and resource management a bit too.

The judicious use of a sprint or parry could be the difference between victory or death!

I think improving the base combat system is alot more important than adding new content.

New content is consumed.
A solid combat system can make content eternally replayable.

I like the # 3 and 4 a lot. Mainly 3 because some boss skills or even WvW effects keep you downed for such a long time. Perhaps when you are downed like that, you can “tumble” to get back up but have daze for the remaining duration. That way you don’t completely ignore crowd controls like that and ruin some profession abilities which depend on the second or two of you being down. Problem though is #1 is basically a block, #2 is basically swiftness and there are other ways of getting around (Teleport, leap, etc.) I dont see #5 being necessary or even used. People run in “circles” because some professions destroy stationary targets. Plus skill shots would be all too easy to cast if someone was standing still to recover endurance a little faster. +1 for # 3 and 4 and creativity ^^

You are missing the underlying gameplay.

If you tumble to ignore the duration of a knockdown, etc, you give up 1 Dodge – and dodging a powerful attack is just as important, if not more.

The same with Parry being similar to blocking, and sprint being similar to swiftness – since they spend Endurance (unlike blocking or swiftness), it is completely different in practice.

Though I understand that’s not the easiest thing to imagine without testing for yourself.

NinjaEd.3946:

People run in “circles” because some professions destroy stationary targets. Plus skill shots would be all too easy to cast if someone was standing still to recover endurance a little faster.

That’s precicely why Parry & faster Endurance recovery while Still are balanced suggestions.
It wouldn’t be a “buff”. It’d be an alternative.
Standing still for 2 seconds wouldn’t feel such a wrong idea, and, to be fair, moving 24/7 annoys the hell out of me.

I’d like a healthy, skill-based mid-term.
Move a little, stand still a little, dodge/parry when appropriate.

I wonder if it’s possible to ever get a Developer so much as hint at whether this is a decent idea to think about, or complete rubbish.

RoShamBo.2618:

Good stuff guys, I like the sound of these ideas. They are adding something extra and raising the skill cap and resource management a bit too.

The judicious use of a sprint or parry could be the difference between victory or death!

That’s what I’m trying to promote: having various options with wich to reward/penalize players for their good/bad choices.

We need to have more different stuff to do with the already existing builds.

The fall damage reduction some people mention sounds nice too.

It should not be as much as the 50% of the trait, but when used within 1 or 2 seconds of hitting ground, you could dodge in mid-air and lose endurance in exchange of reducing damage by up to 25%.
The animation is already there and all: The Flip you when with Diving.

Hmm, that’s a nice idea.
Safe Fall, I suppose.
I added its functionality to Tumble.

Those Traits, imo, are filler traits that shouldn’t exist at all, or at least they shouldn’t compete with other important traits for a Slot.
I’ve previously suggested Traits should have 3 levels: Minor, Major and Superior, with Minor being the currently nearly useless or extremely gimmicky ones.

Bad suggestion, you have skills for that. This game has no other evading system, that’s why endurance was implemented.

like the idea but do not like #’s 4 and 5

How would you parry with a bow?

Idea : Blocks next attack if you have a shield (parry).

/signed

some improvements of the listed up stuff would be really great and improve the battle system too

Axesome.1025:

How would you parry with a bow?

Idea : Blocks next attack if you have a shield (parry).

You would put the Bow between you and the enemy attack…

My suggestion is to give a stationary alternative to Dodge, that is available to anyone regardless of weapon.

Perhaps the cost and the effect can vary with weapon types.
Perhaps Parrying with a Bow is 20% less effective.

Quite a few options to explore.

+1

although i think tumble should be 75%-100% endurance