Guild Wars 2

“Bring the player, not the class”

I also believe in:

“Kick the player, not the stat”

I can go in and solo the first 2 bosses in arah in the warden wing using all magic find gear – all explorer set with 5 pirate runs and an opal in the last piece and all opal jewelery.

Pretty sure magic find gear is 100% acceptable in dungeons. If you can’t do dungeons in your MF gear then you are just bad .

Everything can be avoided, you could probably run most dungeons naked with a sword and win.

God you people will find any reason to complain! I suppose next you’re going to say “He’s got a set of pirate runes in his berserker/carrion gear. KICK HIM HE’S STATTED FOR MF!”

I wear an MF set so I can afford to upgrade.

I don’t carry a second set because I can’t afford one, and I don’t have enough bag space and I hate the concept of switching. I didn’t decide to replace dps/survivability with MF, the designers did. Likewise I didn’t decide to make consumable buffs a one-at-a-time deal. The designers did. I didn’t decide to make travel and death horrendously expensive as a gold sink. The designers did.

So take your complaint to them.

When I’ve made enough to afford my “combat” set, I’ll switch permanently. Until then, or until the economy is straightened out, deal with it.

So you’re going to completely dismember a stat that tons of crafters rely on to make money of completely turning a portion of the clientele with hindered changes and mass deflation?

With the economy like this, I feel that your simplistic thoughts are despicable and unrealistic.

I highly doubt Anet would nerf magic find seeing how it has made so far in this economic stanza and judging how people are undercutting each other in consumables either than equipment? I’d be disgusted if they changed that factor. What they should have done though, is to put a gear switching function binded to a key that allows a player to switch between armor sets that in turn, reduces bag space usage and allows players to switch their gear according to the situation.

Let’s be honest though, I’ll agree on an inspect feature, because it allows players to actually know how an item looks like and in return, drive up the sales in the market.

The problem is people thinking stats matter in a action game like this The obsession with MF gear is no worse than the obsession with power and crit damage. In fact, these are the same. So shall we also ban power and crit damage from items, and kick people who use these? Why not also ban people who selfishly stack vitality, they clearly do no damage and hurt the group? What about condition damage users? Instant damage FTW right? or wait ban the instant damage users as well, condition damage FTW, it ticks even when you dodge! Or maybe it’s the people who have too much toughness that really are the culprit why parties wipe? Think about that!

if the group is failing it isn’t some persons mf gear which takes off 1 of his stats, it’s you or the whole group…

Putting it in consumables is the same or bigger effect than on the gear.

If you eat Omnomberry tarts, you’re foregoing 150+ stat points you should have got eating something with more vitamins. That’s a big hit to your stats!

I just find stacking MF gear to be a wasted effort. It’s a stat like any other, but with low returns and combat uselessness. At least I can craft MF jewels that sell for stupid amounts on the TP for now; at least until people realize that it’s not all important.

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

But the player that equips magic find is selfish and is not out to provide the maximum benefit to the group.

Don’t group with that person.

Relentless.5678:

I just find stacking MF gear to be a wasted effort. It’s a stat like any other, but with low returns and combat uselessness. At least I can craft MF jewels that sell for stupid amounts on the TP for now; at least until people realize that it’s not all important.

The beauty of the system is the stats don’t actually matter all that much, not at all like other games. So, yeah, MF doesn’t do a lot. But it’s not like you’re kitten if you wear it. Skill and positioning matter so much more.

You guys do realize that people in magic find gear are going to be running stats to a similar fashion of those in berserker gear right? So if you think about it nothing’s really changing… At all…

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

But the player that equips magic find is selfish and is not out to provide the maximum benefit to the group.

So? I don’t know 99% of the people I group with. This is Tyria, not Soviet Russia, I’m here to earn for myself.

Illushia.3721:

TSLlol.4879:

I facepalmed when I first saw this stat on the live build of the game. Why would you even put this in a game? It’s clear that everyone’s gonna take it instead of the stats that they should be taking. I’m very disappointed, Anet.

Except there’s no real stats you ‘should’ be taking. All stats work for all specs, 95% of the time.

Tired of seeing you imply that Magic Find as a stat is even REMOTELY beneficial when looked at from a group perspective.

Please, tell me how it is beneficial. Just try. You can’t.

tiennen.6890:

Illushia.3721:

TSLlol.4879:

I facepalmed when I first saw this stat on the live build of the game. Why would you even put this in a game? It’s clear that everyone’s gonna take it instead of the stats that they should be taking. I’m very disappointed, Anet.

Except there’s no real stats you ‘should’ be taking. All stats work for all specs, 95% of the time.

Tired of seeing you imply that Magic Find as a stat is even REMOTELY beneficial when looked at from a group perspective.

Please, tell me how it is beneficial. Just try. You can’t.

A group in GW2 is five DPSers who can marginally buff each other. It is comprised of individuals and does not have a “perspective”.

Been my observation so far that Magic Find gear in general does S.F.A.

Um, it’s just my personal experience, but the returns from MF has already been nerfed alot in the last patches. Also w/ some players reported that you hit DR faster if you have MF, makes it less worthwhile to buy the MF boost scroll from cs or to wear MF gear. That being said, MF gear has precision and power on every single piece, so its’ most likely the skill level of the players you’re taking. Once chainran dungeons w/ a half guild half pug group, the runs were fast and smooth. On run #6 or 7, we noticed a pug was naked, and actually has been naked for some time. But took us that long to notice cauz the guy knew what he was doing and the runs were smooth anyhow. There’s diff situations where I support having group members that puts on the best DPS gear they have, and give it their best shot. With that in mind, I’ve learned to build my friend list with people I’ve grouped with that knows what they are doing, friendly, communicative, and wears their best gear. If I want to do a challenging dungeon, I’ll hit them up instead of pugs.

Adding this check tool will just encourage people to discriminate against new players.

“You dont have a berserker rare set? next”

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

Not sure how that is the problem, I run in mostly magic find gear and I rarely die in dungeons besides when we have kitten pulls or people who are not to the dungeon. Gear in my opinion means little in this game.

But I assume you’re one of those people who think need need full exotics to do a explorer mode aren’t you? Just wondering.

It boggles my mind that people can play an RPG game thinking the stats do not matter. OF COURSE STATS MATTER! If stats didn’t matter, everyone would run around naked. Player skill matters more certainly, but that doesn’t mean stats are meaningless.

I see some people here boasting that they can solo dungeons naked or whatever. If that’s true then you’re not really the type person the OP is talking about.

People have to know their own skill level and play accordingly. If you know you can wreak havoc on the monsters in a dungeon regardless of what gear you are wearing, then fine wear your MF. But if you tend to get knocked out a lot, or even if you’re just not sure how much you are able to contribute to the group, then man-up (or woman-up) and wear gear with proper stats.

Loosifah.4739:

God you people will find any reason to complain! I suppose next you’re going to say “He’s got a set of pirate runes in his berserker/carrion gear. KICK HIM HE’S STATTED FOR MF!”

I run berserker/rampager hybrid gear on my Mesmer with 5 pirate runes on the armor.

Does this make me a bad player?
I can solo a lot of the elite boss npcs.

Arodin.2614:

It boggles my mind that people can play an RPG game thinking the stats do not matter. OF COURSE STATS MATTER! If stats didn’t matter, everyone would run around naked. Player skill matters more certainly, but that doesn’t mean stats are meaningless.

I see some people here boasting that they can solo dungeons naked or whatever. If that’s true then you’re not really the type person the OP is talking about.

People have to know their own skill level and play accordingly. If you know you can wreak havoc on the monsters in a dungeon regardless of what gear you are wearing, then fine wear your MF. But if you tend to get knocked out a lot, or even if you’re just not sure how much you are able to contribute to the group, then man-up (or woman-up) and wear gear with proper stats.

Stats play some rule, But mostly it’s all from the traits. However if someone with no magic find gear is dying, It may not be the stats of the gear. If someone is going to die in two hits regardless of what stats they have why should it even matter? Allow them to make their errors and learn from it rather than bashing people who stat differently than you?

No matter what stats you are gearing you’re going to die or not die regardless. Yes, Having toughness vit stats make you last a hit or two long but if they’re taking ranged damage, Unable to dodge in time, Or just not playing smart they’re going to die regardless.

It’s like the trolls who think full exotic gear is going to make dungeons so much easier when geared as more dps or tanky they still die, Why? Cause they can’t avoid attacks.

tiennen.6890:

Illushia.3721:

TSLlol.4879:

I facepalmed when I first saw this stat on the live build of the game. Why would you even put this in a game? It’s clear that everyone’s gonna take it instead of the stats that they should be taking. I’m very disappointed, Anet.

Except there’s no real stats you ‘should’ be taking. All stats work for all specs, 95% of the time.

Tired of seeing you imply that Magic Find as a stat is even REMOTELY beneficial when looked at from a group perspective.

Please, tell me how it is beneficial. Just try. You can’t.

Players are gearing the way they want, so they’re playing the way ANet wants them to.

It’s beneficial because they’re getting to gear how they want. Which is pretty much the whole philosophy behind it.

I’m running full carrion gear with pirate runes, and as an ele I can still solo most veteran mobs and deal quite a bit of damage to champions.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but would the same people that would kick someone from their group if they had a MF set on, kick other non-MF people that DIDN’T have exotic gear on?

Exotic MF stats = Rare “normal” stats…except, of course, for the 3rd trait, which is miniscule.

If you answer to yourself yes, I would kick them for not having exotic gear, then this thread has nothing to do with MF and has everything to do with simple elitist behavior…which is fine…but say what you mean, don’t bash on MF when the issue is really something else.

Also, your armor doesn’t dictate the level of skill a player has, only potential. Would the same people that would kick out of groups, also kick if someone’s gear isn’t fully repaired? Think a little deeper people.

none-the-less, a very intriguing conversation.

I agree, it seems to go against what ArenaNet has been trying to do with their game. It’s a selfish way of playing, sacrificing your ability to perform better for your party or people around you only for a little more shinies.

How do you even know you are failing not because you just aren’t doing the right things but because people are stacking MF?

And consumables are more important than the item MF anyways since you can boost your stats much more with a consumable than with the little bit of difference between MF and non MF. The dungeons are designed so that you just gotta play smart. The 10% extra bit of dps from people wearing non MF does not affect anything unless you are constantly all dying when the enemies are at 10% health.

This game is less about stats and more about strats. Like others have said, find people to play with if you don’t like how randoms spec.

The whole make it a consumable buff doesn’t make sense when your crying about people not giving their full potential to the groups success. The magic find consumables take the place of other consumables which would also buff the groups chance for success.

But I do agree – you shouldn’t be stacking magic find in group content.

While standing in bad is bad. You still live longer with better survivability stats your giving up. You may have just lived through that with a few hp had you had those stats – you don’t know. What we do know is you would of had a better chance to.

And for what? So you could make a few more coin at the expense of potentially costing the group more than you gained? seems logical to me.

I’ve done dungeons with blue gear under my level and no upgrades on them.

Upgrades are just bonuses, if you are skilled enough, you don’t need those attribute bonuses, so you might as well put something else in there, like magic find or functionalities.

What does standing in bad mean?

Esrever.8613:

What does standing in bad mean?

Standing in an enemy’s field. Usually marked by a red circle in GW2, but not always.

Originates from WoW, where many scripted encounters would place various detrimental effects on the ground. Less relevant in GW2, since in WoW part of the reason people would stand around while taking damage was that they expected healers to deal with it.

rolling out of AOE is really simple in this game. I’d be surprised if wearing slightly better gear would make much of a difference.

Esrever.8613:

rolling out of AOE is really simple in this game. I’d be surprised if wearing slightly better gear would make much of a difference.

Oh it does. It provides more time to react when you otherwise wouldn’t have it. I’ve survived just bad luck where multiple AEs got stacked in the general location of one another by a sliver of health. If I had been sporting MF gear I would not have survived.

It’s not the case 100% of the time but if it’s true even a few percent sometimes that can be the difference between killing a boss and it resetting. Living just that extra second to do that last few points of damage.

Downstate is nice but not nearly as much damage as being alive to deal it.

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

The main issue with that mentality is that people are deliberately stacking magic find and then missing out on other useful stats that would directly benefit everyone in the team, including the player in question.

Not to mention, it means dungeon runs become longer than they need to be simply because people do not have the stats required to kill things more swiftly or gain better utility.

In case it hasn’t been said already, Magic Find gear even in ridiculous quantities is mostly a placebo effect.

I wouldn’t say magic find is a gimmick as once you stack above 100% MF including consumables you’ll be obtaining rares each and every day quite frequently though the effort to obtain a full jewel set that you’d be changing depends on how much you’re willing to invest in and not everyone has that kind of money which is understandable.

Though I will say that it might seem fair to completely disable the MF stat or reduce it but it’s not appropriate to hinder it and devalue it’s cost especially when it opens doors for people who love crafting and want to make a profit in a weak economy like our’s.

In addition, I wouldn’t be too worried about people stashing MF on their character, after all like other’s have mentioned, the MF stat only replaces that 3% increment which can be easily countered with a good team and good utility skills.

This makes no sense, ‘users stacking magic find are selfish’. No, they want to have better chances of making money and obtaining better items/materials. You choose not to wear it just as they choose to wear it. It does not harm the team as has been stated but it’s this perceived notion that these people are somehow selfish that makes you guys dislike them. Having a small bonus to health and armor versus say health and magic find is not gonna be any sort of big difference in the way a player plays.

One person prefers more gold/items to a small bonus in stats, neither effects each other in any significant way.

There’s a very simple solution to this. If people are detrimental to the party because they won’t wear appropriate gear for the situation, kick ’em.

They can have a magic find bonanza on their own time. It’s not a system problem, it’s a personal problem. Parties just need to remedy the weakest link either by teaching them (if they are new, or don’t know stuff) and helping them improve, or if they’re intentionally being a dead weight then kick them from the party.

My first time through AC I was downed once before the last dude, while my entire team was either downed or dead pretty much constantly. I was the only person who was lvl 80 but I was wearing Cleric’s gear from the upper 60s. This would suggest that maybe armour doesn’t matter so much. Explorer’s and Cleric’s both give +72 of whatever stat at the exotic level on chest peice, the only difference is that Cleric gives +101 healing which really doesn’t matter that much in most dungeons I’ve run since I tend not to be standing around anybody to benefit them of healing apart from myself. With MF on and with added help from consumables and guild perks and what not I have around 200% boost to magic find, so I have 15% drop rate vs 5% if I’m fully understanding the way it works. Since my healing only effects me and I’m never going down in dungeons, and therefore don’t need healing boost, shouldn’t I take MF instead? Why not instead just kick anyone who uses light or medium armour since they’re squishy in comparison to warrior and guardian, if you’re going to be that picky about armour stats. That being said, dungeons are friggen tough in this game so even if I don’t need the extra healing I take it anyway just in case, and reserve MF for zergs, where basically no one ever dies, as well as just general play out on my own.

Magic find is just one in a long list of glaringly obvious OMFG what were you guys thinking design fails.

Simply based on the existence of threads like this, Magic Find on gear isn’t coming across to me as a very good idea. Whether or not it really does lessen the effectiveness of a character in team play is secondary to the fact that it’s clearly causing rancor and increasing the likelihood of a negative, caustic play experience. Most importantly, it’s doing these things for no good reason, because the mechanic can be, and is, implemented in other ways.

I don’t like the concept of an inspection process. I don’t like the atmosphere that sort of thing promotes, and I do believe ANet is trying to avoid such dynamics. If Magic Find on gear is the problem for people, I’d rather it just be removed from the equation entirely. It can be kept to consumables (which would make those consumables more desirable), and/or introduced via other means (skills, town clothes, whatever).

Alternatively, it could be left on gear, and perhaps be given a party effect, so that everyone benefits from it.

Bottom line, its current implementation is causing headaches. Those headaches could be easily negated without detriment to anyone. So it would seem that rethinking and reworking Magic Find would be the prudent thing to do.

This is why ANet has not put in(And probably -won’t- put in) an inspect feature. So that unless you TELL someone what gear you’re using, they can’t see it.

So people can gear whatever way they want, which is what ANet wants.

Magic Find on gear is not a problem, and people are making it into one either because they’re jealous, or from some kind of perceived “It makes you suck!” which is entirely untrue.

Illushia.3721:

Magic Find on gear is not a problem, and people are making it into one either because they’re jealous, or from some kind of perceived “It makes you suck!” which is entirely untrue.

That’s debatable, as evidenced by these threads. I don’t claim to know one way or the other, myself. But what I see is a lot of folks on both sides of the issue barking about it. Whether the perception of its impact is wrong or not, it’s obviously become a problem for the social aspect of the game.

So, I ask myself… does having this attribute on gear bring anything of value to the game that couldn’t be facilitated in some other way?

As far as I can see, the answer is no.

However, I do see advantages to removing it from the gear equation. Such as the positive effect that’d have on the consumables market. It would also negate the concerns, real or imagined, some people have with it.

If we were able to obtain the same levels of Magic Find via other means, what difference would it really make?

What way would you have us gain Magic Find, though? If you take it off of gear all that leaves is consumables. And how long before you hear everyone “OMG Y U USING MAGIC FIND FOOD?”

Having it on gear is the best option in order to have it ingame, unless they go some kind of awful “Prestige” route like Diablo where you gain it by grinding, essentially.

People are pitching a fit about it because of some perceived issue, or because they’re jealous. That is really all it is.

There is no actual issue here, it’s all perception.

Magic find as a mechanic is completely pointless. So to get items, I have to kitten my character and play the game in a less enjoyable fashion? Yeah that makes sense.
I always hated Diablo for this stat and I got kind of mad when I saw it in GW2, because I thought the devs had more sense than that.

Luckily I mainly play PvP, but I just wanted to express how incredibly stupid I think having this mechanic is.

Thing is everyone who wants items (read: everyone, period), will probably run magic find gear, which makes the stat pointless and they could remove it completely and just up the drop rates so that people who dont want their character to be kitten can actually play the game without feeling that they are destroying their income.

" If stats didn’t matter, everyone would run around naked. "

There are certain bossess I run naked since your armour grants little benefit.

I also agree, get rid of magic find and up the drop rate so it’s not such a tediously stupid thing.

Illushia.3721:

JazzyJay.1367:

Illushia.3721:

derry.2789:

Illushia.3721:

You can do perfectly fine in dungeons wearing magic find.

If you’re getting squashed wearing magic find, you’ll get squashed wearing any other gear, because you’re standing in the bad that’s squashing you either way.

It’s this mentality that is the problem.

It’s the player, not the gear.

You should probably realize that.

But the player that equips magic find is selfish and is not out to provide the maximum benefit to the group.

DrTenma.7249:

Agreed, people using magic find are leeching non-users for their own benefit.

I’m not sure where this mindset is coming from.

There’s still power and precision on the gear. You’re still providing benefit to the group.

You’re missing out on… what, maybe 10% combat effectiveness? If that?

Gear doesn’t matter much in this game. Player skill matters.

Even if you were wearing vit/tough/power gear, if you stand in the bad(like you’re saying they do) then you’re -going- to die. MF gear or not.

MF gear is like a glass cannon setup, Glass cannons die a lot, even if you’re good, being a glass cannon will get you killed when people in normal gear usually could shake it off.

What’s the most expensive gear on the Trading Post? This is the gear most people are buying.

Go ahead, you can go look.

What is it? Beserker gear. Glass cannon gear.

What’s some of the cheaper gear? Explorer gear. Almost noone’s buying it(I think Cleric/Carrion gear is actually more expensive)

People are going to be class cannons anyway.

People really should stop trying to tell other people how to gear. ANet’s entire philosophy is to let people gear how they want, build how they want, and play like they want.

They’re not going to remove MF for that exact reason. Because people should be able to do what they like.

Gear is not a huge factor in this game. Player skill is. Having Magic Find gear is not going to cripple you in any meaningful way.

Illushia.3721:

What way would you have us gain Magic Find, though?

Were it up to me, I’d actually go an entirely different route with it.

When I look at all the various attributes, Magic Find strikes me as being an odd duck. The reason for that is at the root of the problem some people are having with it. It may, as you say, have no real game-changing impact in team play. But the theme of it is still introverted, which leads to the whole ’it’s selfish!’ criticism.

Really, when compared against other attributes, it is singularly selfish or, perhaps more accurately, self-focused. Conceptually, it just doesn’t fit with the rest.

So, I’d take it out of the bunch. It shouldn’t be directly competing with the types of things it’s competing with, because it’s a different style of perk altogether.

Once removed, it could simply be made into a universal attribute that’s boosted by pursuing various activities (such as, for example, doing dungeons) and/or using quality consumables that have an MF bonus in addition to their primary benefit (much like the seemingly ubiquitous XP bonus that currently exists).

But personally I’d want to preserve the idea of meaningful choice, the idea that if a player wants Magic Find something else has to be given up to get it. So, I’d create a suite of self-focused attributes that would look something like this:

• Lucky – This would essentially be Magic Find.
• Efficient – Would grant bonuses to gathering activities. You’d get more mats out of nodes.
• Determined – An XP booster.
• Professional – Would boost crafting XP.
• Beloved – A Karma booster.

…I’d then put these traits in competition with one another. Each consumable would have just one of them, but a player couldn’t have any more than one consumable active at any given time. Additionally, in terms of gear, I’d make these introverted bonuses strictly an attribute of high-end accessories, and themed accessory sets would increase the total bonus.

Do it all and I believe it would:
- Improve the consumables market.
- Improve the accessories market.
- Eliminate the point of contention MF currently causes.
- Increase participation in group activities, such as dungeons.

Maybe that’s all more than you wanted to know but, as this is the Suggestions forum, I thought I’d throw it into the mix.

I agree in concept with removing Magic Find. Implementation would be tricky, but it is indeed sorry to have to choose a non-combat stat on gear, and many players will, weakening their group.