This is a two part suggestion, and it aims to up the skill level of thieves. People who play smart wouldn’t really be affected, and those who are abusing it would be punished and forced to play smarter.
Suggestion 1: If a thief misses a sneak attack move, it’s gone. You missed it. It promotes sloppy play when a thief can just sit in stealth chasing you and spamming his sneak attack over and over until it finally lands. You would get to stay in stealth, but you would go back to your standard auto attack.
Suggestion 2: Blocks should reveal thief. Would also promote smarter play. Too often I see thieves just spamming their sneak attack moves over and over until it lands finally. This made the block rather pointless, why block if thieves can just spam sneak attacks until my block is gone or my blocking duration is over? The worst is pistol MH sneak attack, which can actually land 1 full sneak attack + a partial of another one, if the first shot hits a block or evade. The mechanic is broken.
I stopped playing my old thief main ages ago because I felt it allowed too sloppy of play. You can get away with some of the most ridiculous things. I personally get bored without a good challenge. I would love to play thief again if changes like this were implemented.
inb4 biased thief rage
agreed mustbeatleast15characters
Thanks, I would just like to see thief have a higher skill-base, without ruining it’s playstyle.
So when a thief stealthes i apply aegis and win? He stealth again i put another aegis i win again? He stealth again my passive procs i get aegis and i win again by my passive? He stealth again i use my heal to block win again?
Backstab has already enough counters, there is a reason why it’s still like this even tho suggested countless times.
And lol at the sneak attack comment from pistol MH, have you ever played a thief? As soon as even 1 of the projectiles hits the thief gets revealed so i have no idea how you think a thief could get 2 sneak attacks off. Yes if every Projectile of it misses he can cast another one.
P.S. no i dont play a stealth based backstab thief
(edited by Sizzle Hint.1820)
And what do Thieves get in return for this change?
So when a thief stealthes i apply aegis and win?
Well yes, isnt that the whole idea of counter play? In case you didnt know, aegis has a 90 seconds CD, stealth has a 4 seconds CD. Im sure you have done at least first grade math, so you should know that 90 > 4 therefore it is quite valid.
P.S. no i dont play a stealth based backstab thief
Sure…..
But even if you didnt, you are a thief and by definition you are abusing using stealth more often than not, to escape, set up uncounterable attacks, stay inside a keep and never be found, have the first strike always (given you have basic skills adn can press 1 button)
In shorts, given how you only play one character, and arent done leveling the second, yuoare very bound to be VERY biased. How about you try playing classes that have to go agaisnt thieves one shooting people on a daily basis? Just in case you didnt know, there are some videos going around of thieves hitting 16.5k backstabs on warriors and guardians, self buffed, in WvW. THe fact that there is absolutely nothing to counter this other than “predict the bad thief player will do some very predictable move pattern and will stick around you for 3 seconds to receive 4 autoattacks to the face” is not a valid counterplay.
And what do Thieves get in return for this change?
Hopefully some respect, or at least the beginning of getting there.
(edited by Fortus.6175)
And what do Thieves get in return for this change?
You get to learn to play better =)
They are simply changes that would promote more skilled play. The style wouldn’t change at all. Those who time their skills accordingly, wouldn’t see a difference. Those who rely on the crutch to spam their abilities until they land… would have to learn.
Well yes, isnt that the whole idea of counter play? In case you didnt know, aegis has a 90 seconds CD, stealth has a 4 seconds CD. Im sure you have done at least first grade math, so you should know that 90 > 4 therefore it is quite valid.
Not all theif builds have that stealth CD. Seems you would be forcing the thieves into that one build just so they could have a chance at winning.
Edit: This would only work if we also got rid of auto blocks. Auto anything really. That promotes sloppy play. This way a thieves attack is skill based along with his enemies.
(edited by Dustfinger.9510)
Even if I don’t play Guardian, it sounds reasonable that if you block something, you should know what you blocked, thus revealing the thief. Or if someone repeatedly fails to strike you from the shadows, it’s only logical that you notice them.
I see no reason to keep the crutches. Oh, and I got 18 levels for my thief not using any skill other than Heartseeker (and auto), when it was still OP. Even played some PvP matches with nothing but the trusty Heartseeker (and auto), and did quite well. Sure, there were some thieves there also crying that “It’s not OP, it’s a well balanced skill” back when someone pointed out that Heartseeker is OP and makes it not fun to play thief. I see the same happening here.
Well yes, isnt that the whole idea of counter play? In case you didnt know, aegis has a 90 seconds CD, stealth has a 4 seconds CD. Im sure you have done at least first grade math, so you should know that 90 > 4 therefore it is quite valid.
Not all theif builds have that stealth CD. Seems you would be forcing the thieves into that one build just so they could have a chance at winning.
Edit: This would only work if we also got rid of auto blocks. Auto anything really. That promotes sloppy play. This way a thieves attack is skill based along with his enemies.
I believe he was talking about revealed CD. If you have an offhand dagger you can re-stealth every 4 seconds after revealed, if you don’t blow your initiative on something else.
What auto blocks are you talking about?
Well yes, isnt that the whole idea of counter play? In case you didnt know, aegis has a 90 seconds CD, stealth has a 4 seconds CD. Im sure you have done at least first grade math, so you should know that 90 > 4 therefore it is quite valid.
Not all theif builds have that stealth CD. Seems you would be forcing the thieves into that one build just so they could have a chance at winning.
Edit: This would only work if we also got rid of auto blocks. Auto anything really. That promotes sloppy play. This way a thieves attack is skill based along with his enemies.
I believe he was talking about revealed CD. If you have an offhand dagger you can re-stealth every 4 seconds after revealed, if you don’t blow your initiative on something else.
What auto blocks are you talking about?
I’d assume Guard’s passive Aegis as one. This brings up another issue. If Thief’s role is to burst down bunkers, then Guardian’s seem to have an inherent edge against Thieves just by virtue of being a Guardian. If it’s been +40 seconds since that guardian has fought, the Thief will have zero chance to catch the Guardian by surprise. I find it questionable as to weather a class should be able to cancel out a basic strategy such as that by default. Imo, it’d certainly lower Thief’s standings in the meta even further if they have to start avoiding fights with the game’s most common Bunker class.
I believe he was talking about revealed CD. If you have an offhand dagger you can re-stealth every 4 seconds after revealed, if you don’t blow your initiative on something else.
What auto blocks are you talking about?
The problem with redesigning a class around a limited amount of weapon options is that it shoe horns the class into that option.
Yes, I was referring to aegis. It creates the same issue the OP has against thieves. Sloppy play that isn’t based on skill. The OP’s suggestion only takes away the main advantage of low health, med armor class and gives it to a heavy armor high healing class.
I believe he was talking about revealed CD. If you have an offhand dagger you can re-stealth every 4 seconds after revealed, if you don’t blow your initiative on something else.
What auto blocks are you talking about?
The problem with redesigning a class around a limited amount of weapon options is that it shoe horns the class into that option.
Yes, I was referring to aegis. It creates the same issue the OP has against thieves. Sloppy play that isn’t based on skill. The OP’s suggestion only takes away the main advantage of low health, med armor class and gives it to a heavy armor high healing class.
Thankfully these changes wouldn’t penalize people who don’t run stealth spamming builds. You would still have the same required skill level regardless of what weapons you chose to use.
A thief should not have an issue vs a guardian and aegis, if they were able to bait out the aegis’s early, as they are on long cooldowns. Guardian has 1 to start, that’s something easy to remove, then you can expect 1 more as he activates the virtue, and then no aegis for quite a while. Plenty of time there, and a thief needs very little time.
Thankfully these changes wouldn’t penalize people who don’t run stealth spamming builds. You would still have the same required skill level regardless of what weapons you chose to use.
A thief should not have an issue vs a guardian and aegis, if they were able to bait out the aegis’s early, as they are on long cooldowns. Guardian has 1 to start, that’s something easy to remove, then you can expect 1 more as he activates the virtue, and then no aegis for quite a while. Plenty of time there, and a thief needs very little time.
Guardians can give aegis to other party members but now you’ve created an argument for aegis that you said was invalid when used for thieves. How is needing to bait out aegis on a guardian different from needing to anticipate a thieves strategy?
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.