Guild Wars 2

So… Arenanet, when are you starting to reward skillful play?

(Kunst – Guardian – Desolation, on the edge of quitting)

Because anyone reading this post can put it into context…

You might want to go into a bit more depth as to what you consider ‘skillful play’.

It’s being patched in tomorrow.

But seriously, do you expect an answer to this?

ArenaNet should hire some psychics.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Because anyone reading this post can put it into context…

You might want to go into a bit more depth as to what you consider ‘skillful play’.

The whole point was to make it short, it was meant to make a small, yet direct “impact” if you will with a simple question. (But who actually listens….) I could of course have written a long post about this issue, but I believe many others have done this aswell, however, that is not an excuse for me not to.

What I generally want with this little sentence is to state that Arenanet is strangling their own game, there after shooting it with several bullets into tiny pieces. They have the possebility to make the best MMO there is, with their technology and their designer team they can create great content, but up until now there really is no system at all that rewards skillful pve play. Their world looks amazing, its mechanics is completey and utterly crap. I have alot more to say about the subject, but it seems that they will never reward the very amazing and skilful player. You or others might have other questions and I could give you a very long post about this. But who would even actually care… Anet won’t change their philosophy.. (Include the casual, exclude the hardcore)

Fyrebrand.4859:

It’s being patched in tomorrow.

But seriously, do you expect an answer to this?

I do. (and I could stop there with the answer.)

But really.. Sometimes you don’t need much more if the question is simple and direct.
(Read other replys I have given to people)

At no point do you offer up a suggestion as to what skillful play is. We’re not mindreaders, though we probably can spell “replies”.

Also:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/How-This-Sub-Forum-Works/first#post74613

“Please note that you should not expect a personalized, individual response to your suggestions, due to the massive volume of posts that the Suggestions sub-forum will generate.”

So, why you’re expecting ANet to personally reply to your thread is anyone’s guess.

Have you tried high level fractals? They are both rewarding, and require a lot of skill to accomplish. Dungeons in general support skillful team play, but if your looking for solo PvE skill, don’t wait around, this is an MMO after all.

It’s so sad to see people not understand how a forum and how feedback should work. I don’t want to criticise you but hey what do you expect them to do now? How should you accomplish “skillful play”?? If PvE is not hard enough for you then go play PvP. Have you ever tried to program an AI? At least we have to dodge in this game and watch for our enviroment. Compare it to other MMOs.
Believe me i really don’t want to offend you but i am sick and tired of people leaving completely unrealistic “suggestions” whil they have no idea how incredibly troublesome and unbelievably hard to program, if not impossible they are… What we have now is far superior than compared to other games. If you don’t like it leave and play chess. A game that rewards skill more than anything else..

uknortherner.2670:

At no point do you offer up a suggestion as to what skillful play is. We’re not mindreaders, though we probably can spell “replies”.

Also:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/How-This-Sub-Forum-Works/first#post74613

“Please note that you should not expect a personalized, individual response to your suggestions, due to the massive volume of posts that the Suggestions sub-forum will generate.”

So, why you’re expecting ANet to personally reply to your thread is anyone’s guess.

I do not define what skilful play is, that is true, and also the point. The post was not meant to be big, I threw the question out there to:
1: Get a written reaction from people.
2: There is no one yet that have focused on the matter of the “post” you are way to concerned about the volum of the post and NOT its message. Try to focus on what it says, not what it does not say.

However I will probably make a long post about this issue very soon, atleast before I quit this game because of lack of challenge and reward to the skillful player. Fractals was “tolerateable” what I mean by that is: Fractals was a ok challenge, but by repeating things all the time without much reward, even if you went over 70 you didnt get more rewards than those who did fractals on scale 26.

Now when they have even removed the possibility to go over 50 (I am 75) they completely destroyed it… This is yet another subject the matter is about.

jwaz.1908:

Have you tried high level fractals? They are both rewarding, and require a lot of skill to accomplish. Dungeons in general support skillful team play, but if your looking for solo PvE skill, don’t wait around, this is an MMO after all.

Yes, I have tried high scale fractals, I am on scale 75.. There are just few groups in the world who are at this high scale. Before I quit the game I will be 79, I know people who are 80 and it isnt possible to do even number fractals above 50 cause of the Jade Maw agony block they put into the game on the latest patch.

No, fractals is not rewarding enough. When you get the same amount of rares / exotics on scale 20 – 30 that you do on 70 thats a total joke and ripp off. When you are able to get fractal skins on 20 and you do the same on 70, same thing, total ripp off and thats a huge issue with the game.

Anet rewards EVERY player no matter how skillful they are with the same rewards. For my struggle on higher than 70 scale I get all the same items as a player who is on scale 20.

Rewarding also means: That you DONT REWARD people. If you believe in everything, you do actually not believe in nothing. If you reward everyone the same, is that actually a reward? No, far from it, and some would even call it an illusion.

• What is defined as skillful play?
• How does skillful play differ from regular play?
• How do you quantitatively measure “skillfulness”?
• What makes “skillful play” a desirable playstyle?
• Should the developer really advocate a specific style of play?

Lucas of the Desert.2165:

It’s so sad to see people not understand how a forum and how feedback should work. I don’t want to criticise you but hey what do you expect them to do now? How should you accomplish “skillful play”?? If PvE is not hard enough for you then go play PvP. Have you ever tried to program an AI? At least we have to dodge in this game and watch for our enviroment. Compare it to other MMOs.
Believe me i really don’t want to offend you but i am sick and tired of people leaving completely unrealistic “suggestions” whil they have no idea how incredibly troublesome and unbelievably hard to program, if not impossible they are… What we have now is far superior than compared to other games. If you don’t like it leave and play chess. A game that rewards skill more than anything else..

Pretty much everything you say is meaningless.. You base alot on an assumption that I do not know how hard it is to make a game like this. That I do not appreciate the work. Right there is your first mistake, and everything in your post that includes this is meaningless because it simply takes a view point from a position that is a lie.
(If you do not understand what I mean by this: You assume that I take forgranted the struggle with making an AI, and use that as an excuse to make your post. Your assumption is wrong, therefor your post meaningless)

Secondly; You write “If you do not like it, leave it” This is a huge issue in the minds of people. And it really fills me with contempt and digust. You simply imply that things are not changeable to become better and you judge those who tries to make the world better. I would say that is a act from a simple minded fool who feels he / she needs to protect her / him self.

Olba.5376:

• What is defined as skillful play?
• How does skillful play differ from regular play?
• How do you quantitatively measure “skillfulness”?
• What makes “skillful play” a desirable playstyle?
• Should the developer really advocate a specific style of play?

Read other replies I have written to people. If you do still want an answer to your questions I will give you this when I come back from work.

Tesena.1075:

You or others might have other questions and I could give you a very long post about this. But who would even actually care… Anet won’t change their philosophy.. (Include the casual, exclude the hardcore)

Then this post is more of a QQ about ANet’s direction and not constructive criticism with suitable suggestions?

“I’m leet and I want to be rewarded for it” isn’t a suggestion or constructive criticism, at the end of the day.

Tesena.1075:

Lucas of the Desert.2165:

It’s so sad to see people not understand how a forum and how feedback should work. -snap-

-snap- You assume that I take forgranted the struggle with I would say that is a act from a simple minded fool who feels he / she needs to protect her / him self.

I am not judging anyone.. i just read a lot in the forums and i notice that people often state what they want for the game without thinking or at least giving a suggestion. All they do is complain and that’s a huge difference.

If you really do know how hard it is to make it skillful then why aren’t you leaving a suggestion? All people do is complain… and (hate/flame me or not) i rather think that your post right now was meaningless. All you stated was that my post is meaningless without actually responding to what i said.. if the gameplay or the rewards aren’t challenging or good enough for you that’s too bad but how about givin a SUGGESTION? What would you like to have implemented? What could they do to improve what’s wrong with the current state of the game(in your opinion)? All i did is asking a few questions and it would be great if you could reply instead of calling my post “meaningless”

In order to turn this post into some form of criticism, your next post should say something along the lines of, “For PvE, there should be more end-game content and rewards for hardcore players.” This doesn’t have anything to do with “skill.”

At this rate, though, I hate to break it to you — Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2 are PvP-centric games. Yes, there IS PvE, and it’s actually pretty good compared to most yawn-through MMOs. But the focus is obviously on PvP — both WvW and sPvP/tPvP. Considering the dev’s earnest to turn this into an e-sport should be an indication of the direction they wish to take the game.

He probably means:

An increased complexity in high-end fights for high-end rewards, such as, but not limited to:

- Reduced increment between boss abilities.
- Reduced response time between a red circle animation and the actual damage.
- Increased number of abilities done by bosses.
- Increased (tier) of loot from bosses.

ArenaNet is strictly against offering better statted rewards. It is what makes their game awesome to the casual and bad to the hardcore player. Legendaries are the (aesthetic) exception and the coming of Pink items has created a lot of debate surrounding this subject.

Increasing the complexity without increasing the reward however – as you stated when comparing Fractals 20 with Fractals 70 – is utterly pointless. To this end, you should probably be looking for a different game (though WoW has also been slowly moving to the casual side, more people = more money afterall).

I hope this information helps you move on to your next game. As a hardcore player myself, I will quit this game when I am done with my Legendary as well, even though I did enjoy the time spent here in this nice casual environment. It was worth my money.

Next Friday.

Silly questions deserve silly answers.

Tesena.1075:

I do not define what skilful play is, that is true, and also the point. The post was not meant to be big, I threw the question out there to:
1: Get a written reaction from people.

Seems you got reactions from people but didn’t like their reactions and then blamed them for not understanding your original issuse.

I’ll give you +1 for skillful play with a bonus to confusion.

Sometimes, skillful play is its own reward. Although, I think GW2 does reward superior skill in general, in a variety of ways:

1) Fractals scale in difficulty. The higher you get, the harder it becomes and the greater the rewards.

2) New players might shy away from groups of mobs or Veterans, though it’s entirely possible for more experienced players to take them down easily. And then you have Champions, who are generally intended for a group of players to tackle together but I know some of them have even been beaten by two or ONE person.

3) Been to any of the “Magic Find” threads? A lot of the justifications the MF-stacking players have given is that GW2 is all about player skill, not stats. Players seriously underpower their characters by removing a helpful stat from their gear, in favour of stacking Magic Find (and thus getting better drop rate for higher difficulty, in a way). There are ethical considerations when considering how your choices impact teamwork in a group setting, but you might want to consider this option while out soloing, at least. Consider it a “hard mode,” maybe?

4) I don’t do much PvP besides a little WvW, but it is my understanding that structured PvP is ANet’s attempt to keep the classes as balanced as possible and have victory depend 100% entirely on individual skill rather than gear.

I’m sure there are more examples, but generally they are scattered throughout the game. No MMO has one specific area designated as the “Rewards for Player Skill Zone.” If you’re bored, you could perhaps look into trying a different build for your character, or rolling a new profession altogether. I have heard that Mesmer and Thief are apparently the classes that have a high learning curve but reward mastery, though I can’t say personally.

Tesena.1075:

So… Arenanet, when are you starting to reward skillful play?

(Kunst – Guardian – Desolation, on the edge of quitting)

When you roll a non-baby class.

OOOH I WENT THERE!!!!

I’m a little disturbed by how far the GW2 community is willing to feed trolls on this forum. This is a troll post. It offer nothing but fuel for angry and contemptive responses. When fed it then responds with more inflamitory material that offers nothing in the way of actual substance.

Again, this is a Troll.

On a side note for Callynn and those like him/her, how do you quit a game you’re not subscribing to? You own the game. You have an account. It takes nothing else to play it. You can stop playing, but since at an moment, without putting in any extra effort, you can immediately return to it for any reason can it really be said that you quit?

Quitting was meaningful to the old subscription model because it meant a sudden cease of revenue. But since ANet will be getting no less from you whether you play the game or don’t, does it really matter one way or the other?

This is the first game i have played where i feel like i am not standing in one spot spamming skills 1-8. The game isn’t difficult, but it keeps my mind working as I’m playing. If you really like the game, but don’t find it challenging enough, I suggest posting another thread in the suggestions about any idea you have for more complex play. Also I suggest finding other ways to challenge yourself. Don’t run in the circles in orr. That’s boring and not a challenge at all, but there are other places with challenging events. If you think you are better at the game than all the rest of us casual players, you may find a lot of fun in WvW. There is plenty of army vs army fights, but you can find 1v1 fights also. Especially in the jumping puzzle in the eternal battlegrounds, but you can find people anywhere. If you want people to help you with ideas to make the game better, i suggest starting a new thread where the subject of the thread isn’t how horrible you worded the initial question.

Lucas of the Desert.2165:

Tesena.1075:

Lucas of the Desert.2165:

It’s so sad to see people not understand how a forum and how feedback should work. -snap-

-snap- You assume that I take forgranted the struggle with I would say that is a act from a simple minded fool who feels he / she needs to protect her / him self.

I am not judging anyone.. i just read a lot in the forums and i notice that people often state what they want for the game without thinking or at least giving a suggestion. All they do is complain and that’s a huge difference.

If you really do know how hard it is to make it skillful then why aren’t you leaving a suggestion? All people do is complain… and (hate/flame me or not) i rather think that your post right now was meaningless. All you stated was that my post is meaningless without actually responding to what i said.. if the gameplay or the rewards aren’t challenging or good enough for you that’s too bad but how about givin a SUGGESTION? What would you like to have implemented? What could they do to improve what’s wrong with the current state of the game(in your opinion)? All i did is asking a few questions and it would be great if you could reply instead of calling my post “meaningless”

I will try to inform you as easily I can, piece by piece why your post is meaningless, I will give reasons for this.

Mistake nr1: “It’s sad to see that people…” Answer: You do not find it sad, you find it annoying. Stop hiding your self behind empathic words. Mistake nr 2: “I don’t want to criticize you but hay…” Who actually cares about it. If you do want to criticize and are right in doing so do so. (You can ONLY know if it is right by examining it through rationality)

Question one from you: “How should you accomplish skillful play??” YOU accomplish it by getting pass tough challenges, what I believe you are really asking is that “How should Arenanet accomplish to make encounters that reflect the need of skillful play”

Challenges until now that Anet have made is simply just a joke. Why is it a joke? First of all the global rewarding they have. They give EVERYONE the same no matter what (in this case) fractal scale you are at. It is VERY easy to get past even scales like 70, which was in actually never intended for people to get past. A weaker group may get past it after a few wips but still you get past it eventually. This should never have been.

Example: If you wipe on a boss that spawns adds (Dredge boss) These adds should reset so you have to do the whole encounter again because that’s the legit way. You should not be able to kill some mobs, wipe, and have fewer mobs to kill. My point is: Encounters should reset.

Back to your text:
Your sentence: “ If pve is not hard enough for you go play pvp” here again you reflect upon the idea of “If you do not like it, leave it” What you are saying here is I should leave all pve in this game and go play pvp. I am no hater of pvp. However its way to unorganized and way to dependent on “ Strength in numbers” Its not ideal, though not a huge problem (Refering to world vs world)
Structured pvp is out of the question. We’re talking about PVE, not PVP. This again makes your sentence meaningless. To make this even more clear for you: While I am talking about Fish, you are talking about seaweed. The cat is a metaphor for pve and the seaweed is a metaphor for pvp. It’s entirely two different things and there for should be treated like wise.

Your sentence: “Atleast we have to dodge in this game and watch for our enviroment (environment). Compare (Compared) to other MMO’s. I do not see how this is relevant to the topic. You are comparing MMOs, which is not much part of the topic at all. You say this because you want Gw2 to have a image of being more difficult, but really… It does not make it so. (? Meaning less.)

Your sentence: “Believe me i really don’t want to offend you but i am sick and tired of people leaving completely unrealistic “suggestions” whil they have no idea how incredibly troublesome and unbelievably hard to program, if not impossible they are… What we have now is far superior than compared to other games. If you do not like it, leave and play chess. A game that rewards skill more than anything else…”

My answer: This is where it gets EXTREMLY meaningless; everything in this sentence has no point what so ever that is relevant to the topic. First, “Believe me I really don’t want to offend you.” Who cares? Really… Stop protecting your-self and stop lying. You so want to offend me. Secondly, why would that even offend anyone? What offends me is your lie and the facade you try to keep up. Next, you base this on your belief about my lack of appreciation for the creation of the game. When this assumption is at fault, then what you say is meaningless because it simply is untrue. (<—Meaningless.) Again, my appreciation has no relevance to the topic at all, that someone do not have insight in the trouble of programming does not mean it more relevant to the topic and do not change anything. (<— Meaningless)

Next: Chess? Chess only withholds an intrinsic value. If you do however enter tournaments and win, the rewards comes from the competition and not Chess by itself. Therefore, this is yet another half lie from you.

Next up: You write “If you do not like it, leave it” This is a huge issue in the minds of people. In addition, it really fills me with contempt and disgust. You simply imply that things are not changeable to become better and you judge those who tries to make the world better. I would say that is an act from a simple-minded fool who feels he / she needs to protect her / himself.

Your sentence: ” I am not judging anyone.. i just read a lot in the forums and i notice that people often state what they want for the game without thinking or at least giving a suggestion. All they do is complain and that’s a huge difference.”

My Answer: You do a slight contradiction here. You say, “People often state what they want for the game without thinking or at least giving suggestions.” When you state what you want for the game that is a suggestion. However, you do not share (the reason why I write share, is because the person might have a good idea how to do it and just have not shared it. (Understand what it says, not what it do not say) a suggestion, only the field that someone wants to be improved.

Further, you go onto telling me that you think my post is rather meaningless. “All you stated was that my post is meaningless without actually responding to what I said.” I did indeed respond to what you said, and you do not give reasons for saying that you think my respond is meaningless. You provide NO logic to it, no reason.

In the end of your second post you say, “All I did is asking a few questions and it would be great if you could reply instead of calling my post “meaningless.” The first mistake with this sentence is that; I did indeed reply. It would be a lie to say that I did not reply which you are saying. So again, another half lie.

These are the questions you asked in the first post.
1. Question: But hay what do you expect them to do now?
1. Answer: This requires a post, which I will be delivering soon. It will be very long. To get an idea, just look how much I got out from your reply in this post.
2. Have you ever tried to program an Al?
2. Answer: Meaningless. It withholds no relevance to the subject.

Your sentence: “All I did is asking a few questions”
My answer: I would not consider two questions “a few questions,” This is yet another half lie or a misunderstanding of the word “few” The very definition of the word is related to “a small number” However, this is not how the word is used. You either say a couple (which is 2) or you simply say “my two questions”

In this very reply I have reasoned by your post is meaningless and even given you the examples.
Furthermore I gave reasons for other aspects of your post that was, to say it bold, complete bullkitten.

Read it carefully… I am tired of irrational and untruthful thinking that leads to untruthful expressions.

op have you lost your mind? ive been reading posts and im not sure what you even want? how are they going to measure skillful play? # of attacks dodged? would kinda limit your build to high dps ones then. you argue with anyone and cant even see your statement AT BEST is vague. do you talk to people in real life like that and then become puzzled when they cant read your mind? can you read other peoples minds?

poe lyfe.5879:

op have you lost your mind? ive been reading posts and im not sure what you even want? how are they going to measure skillful play? # of attacks dodged? would kinda limit your build to high dps ones then. you argue with anyone and cant even see your statement AT BEST is vague. do you talk to people in real life like that and then become puzzled when they cant read your mind? can you read other peoples minds?

State your sentence please. Specify what is unclear, specify what is wrong, and give reasons for why it is so.

GoldenKnightTim.4390:

This is the first game i have played where i feel like i am not standing in one spot spamming skills 1-8. The game isn’t difficult, but it keeps my mind working as I’m playing. If you really like the game, but don’t find it challenging enough, I suggest posting another thread in the suggestions about any idea you have for more complex play. Also I suggest finding other ways to challenge yourself. Don’t run in the circles in orr. That’s boring and not a challenge at all, but there are other places with challenging events. If you think you are better at the game than all the rest of us casual players, you may find a lot of fun in WvW. There is plenty of army vs army fights, but you can find 1v1 fights also. Especially in the jumping puzzle in the eternal battlegrounds, but you can find people anywhere. If you want people to help you with ideas to make the game better, i suggest starting a new thread where the subject of the thread isn’t how horrible you worded the initial question.

Reeeeally…..?

- Running around in orr (Meaningless because its irrational and untrue)
- If you think you are better at the game than all the rest of us casuals players. (contemptious, and yes ofc I am. Sounds rude, but face reality)
- You may find alot of fun in WvW. (Really…? WvW is broken. No fun at all, especially with culling)

Due to the inflammatory tone of this thread, it will be closed. Please keep in mind that if you want to discuss issues on our forums, you have to do it in a constructive way.