Guild Wars 2

I think with this post, I am just theorycrafting at this point:

I think a third option is available as long as the devs make it so that skill-based characters have the same twitch-based HP pool that they currently have which is low and that the new holy trinity characters have either more damage/less hp, a lot more hp/armor but medium damage, and high heal or regen but low damage/medium hp. It doesn’t mean they have to draw out fights or make the hp bars bigger, but they do have to stabilize it some for the holy trinity characters and I’ll explain why because these trinity characters will rely more on stability than on skill, it’s only a very slight and minor difference however.

I don’t think it has to be an either/or issue, for example:

A pure dps trinity character, would do well lvling on early game in the current GW2 structure (prior to HP pool stabilization/modification that would be required), but slow down later on, since they have a lower health pool. The tank role would be a balanced class I guess sort of but still slightly slower than skill-based solo classes. The healer class would be slow overall, but more steady. These are all just examples.

Currently it is an either/or issue: however,

The holy trinity characters should be reintroduced on the basis that for solo content, they should be able to do it solo as well, but for bosses that require more players the holy trinity would have to work with other solo/holy trinity members in order to succeed. For instance, if a boss requires two people, then the holy trinity character either works with an added solo member, or another holy trinity character. The difference here is that all characters are still soloable, including holy trinity characters. This modification is necessary since it would be unfair for holy trinity characters since there exist soloers. But holy trinity characters will excel in their own roles, but at a slower, more drawn-out pace in order to reintroduce boundaries. How slow the pace becomes in the end is not an issue because it’s just a matter of the length of time ANet wants for HP bars to go down.

The solo trinity should still require skill just like it currently is. The ideal solo players would be highly skilled in order to take advantage of this and be able to play a great solo class. The holy trinity can be reintroduced and the ideology behind that would be that it would be a back-up plan, be slightly slower, but be easier to control and more certain and give more time for players to think instead of continuously dodging. This would allow for PUGS to be made more easily, and a more steady method for acquiring wealth over time. However it would be more of a stat calculation game once again like in WoW raids.

You can add back in the holy trinity, and keep the current “solo” trinity to (dps/control/support) to develop a perfected trinity: dps+dps dodge/tank+control/healer+support. Obviously the key thing to note is that dps dodge/control/support is the current unique-solo role, and dps/tank/healers would be the traditional roles that rely on each other to succeed. It would just be a matter of balancing so that one doesn’t become invincible through any particular role (such as an OP healer which in theory would be able to kill any boss given enough time unless that boss has regeneration as well, or a pure-dps role which would be OP since there are too many control skills in the game which would allow for an OP mix.

Let’s take a look at what the holy trinity implies. The holy trinity implies that the dps role makes sure that the boss is taken down before the tank dies and goes straight for the dps guy and wipes the entire raid. That’s his role, to do damage. The tank makes sure he sucks up damage by keeping the damage on him rather than his party. This is his role, to soak up damage. The healer makes sure the entire party has heal sustain. This is his role, to add back missing hp. These are all #‘s, but the holy trinity has for a long time created depth and dynamics and made it fun. The idea is to create a boss that’s defeatable by the holy trinity, based on #’s calculation, and not make it pure mathematical which would be impossible since pros let alone beginners would have a hard time making perfect calculations. This is why the holy trinity existed, to give people an easier time to make calculations and to add depth because they have things to fall back on instead of making it a pure 2-dimensional #"s game. With the holy trinity of the past, you could not defeat a boss without relying on all three. But now with the newly emerged solo trinity, you can defeat a boss by yourself. But, combined with the holy trinity it adds even more depth given the correct mechanics, because the holy trinity combined with the solo trinity adds a unique third element: that is that the boss itself becomes stronger in some way/shape/or form, see below. The real ideal here is that if the solo character or a group of solos are able to do it alone, then the holy trinity characters able to do it too. The only difference is that the holy trinity characters do it slower, but they are more certain with their victory. Thus, solo characters will forever remain a skill-based class, whereas the holy trinity characters will remain a stat and numbers calculation class in order to succeed.

The tricky thing here to consider is how to balance out the holy trio with the solos so that they don’t end up in an OP mix: simple mechanics to balance this so that it mixes well with the current solo trinity and not break the game would be:

The dps role really has slightly lesser OP effect when combined with solo classes because all it does is take down the boss faster while not affecting the overall survivability of the group, it still remains the same because you’re sacrificing a would-be solo teammate slot. Tank and healer roles however are different and must be measured because they allow for the tank or healer to continuously provide OP support for the solo classes.

1. The pure dps-role has alot more damage, but only one dodge bar and very low endurance regeneration. Work out the aggro tables on this one. However, he has a “third unique aspect/ability” which is to be able to reduce aggro on himself thereby making the boss run to his location while giving other people time to damage it and then making the boss run back to his location. However, this again has to be balanced out because what we want is stability and not OPness. So, whenever the dps-role reduces aggro on himself the boss becomes pacified for a moment and the dpser is safe and it seems to be about aggro control. I’m not sure how the dps aggro works in WoW raids or traditional holy trinity mmos but it’s something like that however I’m missing the details but ANet should be clear on the dps role mechanics in holy trinities. It should be about the same, because in the end the dpser is going to have no tank to draw aggro away from him if he’s only combining himself with a solo class. But if you’re still worried, then incorporate a mechanic where the boss once again is made tougher by gaining the longevity attribute which increases his health pool. But at this point you absolutely wouldn’t introduce a mechanic where he’d do more damage to the surrounding teammates. That would be an undesirable mechanic for the dpser’s solo teammates. Once again, this isn’t OP if the mob gains longevity because mobs are measured so that they’re defeatable and not impossible. So for dpsers essentially they’re sacrificing a solo slot for a dps character and if the dps character does enough damage while having the solo classes still be able to control the mob/boss, then the dps character can outproduce the longevity buff the mob/boss receives with higher damage. Once again the drawback however is you’re sacrificing a balanced solo slot and you’re also running the potential of drawing lots of aggro to you if you only party with solo members because you have no tank drawing it away from you.

2. The tank role would be extremely tough and have no dodge and re-introduce the taunt, but then also make it so that whenever the mob/boss is successfully taunted he’d gain a buff called anger and gain hardened attribute which would grant him armor and make him take significantly less damage overall as long as the aggro is still on the tank (you could make it so that the buff remains activated a little while longer even after aggro shifts from the tank to prevent distance manipulation), this might seem like the same thing but in reality it’s not because the dynamics are still there as a differentiating factor and you’d still have rely on your solo/holy trinity teammates as a result of your choosing one of the holy trinity characters (which rely on other characters supporting them, remember). (low chance for taunt to fail and result in the dismissal condition where the mob builds high continuous aggro on the tank’s teammates). But even if the tank setup proves to be invincible it’s not really an issue as it’s going to be infinitely slower anyway and you could argue that killing a chicken repeatedly would get you to lvl 80 just the same. It’s the dynamics that matter.

3. For the healer role you’d have alot of heal and regen for all party members. However, to prevent this from being exploited by soloers, the solo classes will have reduced healing and regeneration the more burst heals and more heals over time they get from the designated healer. This is called pride, and it’s unique to the solo class, but it also goes away after awhile as long as the healer stops healing for awhile. This means the soloer will still have to rely on skill. Also, the healer wouldn’t be contributing any damage at all. Also, the mob incurs a fountain attribute meaning the energies flowing from nearby heals has affected the monsters and has allowed him to heal slightly also based on how much healing was done. This means the soloers will still have to dodge. This allows the healer to not just be able to freely heal anybody while everybody just solos and dodges the boss with the current solo-trinity.

Note that for all of these new mechanics, it wouldn’t be a problem even if some random guy did a run-by and decided to tag you with a heal because the premise is that you would be doing more damage than the mob does to you in the first place if you wanted to kill it. It would probably be frustrating and annoying since it would draw out the time required to kill the mob if the tagger exploited it continuously, but then you can just set an option to deny all heals from said player. Same with a dpser helping bring down a mob for his solo friend all too quick, as long as you make the mobs/bosses tougher it should solve this exploitation problem. The issue once again is not making OP mixes of soloers/trinity classes. For the tank, once again the mob would gain the hardened attribute and this is in line with the principle that if you want to gain more significantly more protection, you’re also drawing the fight out significantly longer.

Once again, the holy trinity characters would be able to lvl just the same solo. The holy trinity simply emerges at endgame, where the discrepancy materializes. Do not get this wrong, you can definitely still lvl up like in WoW. Still, the holy trinity issue has already been solved by ANet by introducing the solo-trinity.

The traditional holy trinity roles should probably be introduced by the way of new classes. (think Purifier, Protector, and Sage as prototypes)

Also, separate the solo classes from the holy trinity classes, this way there’s a distinct barrier. The solo classes will be called The Heroics. The holy trinity classes would be called the something like The Trendsetters, or The Trinities. Ultimately, the idea is that an ideal raid group of all highly skilled solo players will require a lot of skill. And yes, in the end the “trio” characters will require assistance from either solo players or a complete holy trinity formation. This is not bad because it’s what the holy trinity players wanted in the first place anyway.

This is all balanced.

I think given enough time I would also be able to solve questions revolving around the rock, paper, scissors issue in RTS games such as the original starcraft: bw. However, for now solving major issues in mmos is fine enough for me.

Wall of text… Will read it some other time.