Guild Wars 2

Well if you can see that person coming you can kill him with what, 4-6 guards around? If you consecutively keep killing that person they’ll eventually give up.

I can run in naked, contest a keep and die, then be back before the 3 minute timer’s up, even running from spawn across EB, 100% solo. As long as I get that hit in, I’ve done my job.
Me dying? Whatever, I don’t care as long as your zerg has to run from spawn back to SMC or wherever you’re trying to defend, instead of porting from your keep.

I have a 3-minute timer set up next to my PC to make sure I’m contesting right as it’s expiring. GG.

Dahir.4158:

Well if you can see that person coming you can kill him with what, 4-6 guards around? If you consecutively keep killing that person they’ll eventually give up.

Even if it was fairly easy to stop them (read: no, it’s not) that still doesn’t excuse 1 person being able to shut down a WP for 3 minutes.

Green keep in Eternal has it the worst. A thief can easily stealth to watergate and tag it. All while the “trained” sharks just swim about, and maybe sometimes nuzzle the thief.

You all have valid points and I wont deny that. But all I’m saying is sometimes people will just give up and for those that don’t, just contest their keep as payback haha.

I see two seperate issues here personally.

1) Even after playing a thief and a mesmer to 80, I still think stealth is overpowered. I personally believe the best way to fix stealth is to make it impossible to stealth while in combat, while also buffing the duration of stealth granted by the various skills. In my opinion, this would make stealth “fair”.

2) One player with a hand weapon should not be able to lockdown a waypoint. I can think of two possible fixes off the top of my head. Either, A – Siege damage to the walls/doors will contest the waypoint for the timer duration or B – Destroying a gate or wall permanently contests the waypoint until repaired enough to close them (15% I think? I forget the exact percentage).

Too much focus on the “it was a thief” and “you should kill him” points. Naked ele + Ride The Lightning can contest the keep. Yeah they’ll die, but that’s why they were naked. Guardian with a lot of condition removal and both invulnerability skills can do the same thing and be relatively unstoppable. Ranger pet with their 3k range can only be stopped by a well placed immobilize. Mesmer has multiple invis skills and a teleport just needs to get within 1200 range of the door to hit it. A decent engi should be able to get in with Elixir S. Warrior and necro might have a little more difficulty, but they can do it too. Ultimately, if they want to hit the gate and don’t have a fear of death (or have removed their armor for that purpose) there is nothing you can do to stop them.

Again, necros can contest walls. The easiest profession in game the contest with and bypasses all of this dumb “leaves 5 dudes at every gate” stuff.

The topic should be about 1 person contesting, because it’s stupidly easy.

Merkator.6351:

I see two seperate issues here personally.

1) Even after playing a thief and a mesmer to 80, I still think stealth is overpowered. I personally believe the best way to fix stealth is to make it impossible to stealth while in combat, while also buffing the duration of stealth granted by the various skills. In my opinion, this would make stealth “fair”.

2) One player with a hand weapon should not be able to lockdown a waypoint. I can think of two possible fixes off the top of my head. Either, A – Siege damage to the walls/doors will contest the waypoint for the timer duration or B – Destroying a gate or wall permanently contests the waypoint until repaired enough to close them (15% I think? I forget the exact percentage).

i agree.. only seige should cause damage and contest wp

I’ve seen this same exact fix idea posted elsewhere and can’t really find anything wrong with it:

If a wall or gate takes 10% repairs to restore to working state, it stands to reason that a location should not be contested until any gate or wall has taken 10% damage.

I find this complaining by a Fort Aspenwood player to be very satisfying to me. You guys have a thief who does this all the time for hours.

SpedalFlux.1520:

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

Are you on tarnished coast? Just wondering he did that to kain a lot when we were the green server. Anyway here is a hint for you he is not hitting the gate. Npc will react. He is also most likely not even teleporting. No need to.

While I view contesting WP’s as a valid tactic I also think the rules need to be tweeked a bit. It does seem silly that 1 player can run up and break wind near a gate to lock down the WP for several minutes. What I would propose is change it so you actualy have to do something to contest the keep.

If I had my way contesting a keep would only occur if
a) siege damage occures to walls/door
b) gate guard NPC’s are killed
c) an enemy player is inside the walls.

If any of the above happens the defend/capture event activates and the WP becomes contested. a single player plinking a door once is not a meaningful threat to the keep and should not be enough to trigger contested. 1 player could still kill one of the guards at the gate but to do so they will need to stick around attacking for longer than 1 attack animation. This would alow defenders a reasonable chance to intercept the contest attempt vs what we have now, rush the gates, fire 1 attack, die/stealth, run back repeat.

You obviously don’t play smart. Have a engy put up a net turret, have a warrior standby. When he pops net turret goes off and warrior can 100b him down.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

SpedalFlux.1520:

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

Sounds like either Revealed isn’t working properly or you guys have really slow reaction times.

Not true at all. You don’t have to attack to remove stealth. If you time the stealth properly the old stealth fades, you hit the gate, and you re-stealth immediately. It doesn’t require expert timing, just a little practice.

Revealed only occurs if you break stealth via attacking.

Also, yes this mechanic needs to be changed. There are alot of ways for 1 person to contest a keep and not be stopped.

uberkingkong.8041:

You obviously don’t play smart. Have a engy put up a net turret, have a warrior standby. When he pops net turret goes off and warrior can 100b him down.

yeah everyone he clearly would have no counter for this and it would always work every time. geez.

Wow, people are going to great lengths trying to find a way to nerf thieves more!

Pinko.2076:

Is it still not common knowledge that players can just damage a wall and avoid all of the defense at a gate? It’s been in since release but they only “officially” documented it last patch for necros.

Another reason why this shouldn’t be about thieves, but just individual players’ abilities to contest an entire keep.

Pinko.2076:

Again, necros can contest walls. The easiest profession in game the contest with and bypasses all of this dumb “leaves 5 dudes at every gate” stuff.

The topic should be about 1 person contesting, because it’s stupidly easy.

Nerco’s can no longer damage walls or gates with their Vampiric trait as of the last patch. Sigils of leeching also no longer deal damage to gates or walls either^^. (it was pretty OP cause it ticked gates for 900+) The patch notes were worded incorrectly about necros~

Thiefs can still CnD on walls tho for no reason at all. Buuth I agree its silly that one person can makea 1-2g upgrade competently useless by walking up and tapping a gate. They should really fix that ; ;.

Kolisch.4691:

Wow, people are going to great lengths trying to find a way to nerf thieves more!

+1. the issue at hand is not stealth and thieves. It is contesting the WP with a single attack. Just because the OP and his FA teammates were unable to counter the same strategy that his own server mates have used. LOLOLOL I think “Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.”

bhagwad.4281:

I think it’s time to pay attention to what should be a rule in multi player games:

1 player should never be able to cause trouble to 2 or more players. No matter what the situation. If 1 player is able to do that, something needs to be buffed/nerfed somewhere.

A skilled player can cause trouble to more than 2 players, and that’s what makes them skilled despite of classes or games. Have you ever seen StarCraft’s 1v3? FPS games 1vMany? It seems to me this online gaming is a new concept to you, therefore allow me to introduce to you a new game.

Single player game: MicroSoft minesweeper! A fun challenging game, where the level of trouble that you cause to yourself is porportion to your level of logic and guessing! You should try it out someday.

Dahir.4158:

Well if you can see that person coming you can kill him with what, 4-6 guards around? If you consecutively keep killing that person they’ll eventually give up.

edit: I guess I didn’t take into consideration the first part of “if you can see them coming”, but I still stand by a lot of what I said in this post.

Not really. With infiltrator’s strike/shadow return and all my stealth, I can contest a keep fairly easily even with 4-6 people laying traps and AOEing everywhere..at worst, I’ll have to tap the gate with my downed skill. Also, you would have to put you 4-6 people at every gate, because any smart person will switch up the gates that they’re tapping. I don’t what the population of your sever is, but leaving 4-6 people at every gate to guard a keeps waypoints is a little absurd for most. That 4-6 at every gate is just for one out of the 3 keep as well. I can make the whole round of 3 keeps in 3 minutes permanently shutting down every waypoint on a borderland.

As for a solution, I would recommend making gates (maybe even just reinforced gates) only take damage from siege, just like walls. This would also speak to another problem I have ran into. Recently, my server has been playing another that has an Oceanic presence that so greatly outnumbers ours that we can put up siege to immediately knock down any of theirs…totally out chess play them as far as the siege game goes, with greatly smaller numbers…but in the end, they zerg the gate down autoattacking with no siege, with no regard to dieing simply for the fact that their are always 5 people to res them. After half an hour they get the gate down, regardless of how smart we played the siege game. But I’m getting off topic now. Just saying you can kill two birds with one stone.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

SpedalFlux.1520:

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

Sounds like either Revealed isn’t working properly or you guys have really slow reaction times.

Well taking the OP on face value if the thief immediately restealthed that means revealed isn’t working properly, and I’ve personally fought a thief recently that was able to restealth immediately after attacking me.

Don’t bother trying to convince ANet that they should do something abnout thieves in OP. We tried dozens of times.

They seem to be aware of the OP, they decided to do something abot it in the last patch, but they chickened out and let the thiefs have their OP capabilites.

But if a warrior on an AC can stun people that don’t know how to dodge, now THAT needs a nerf NOW. Blah!

morrolan.9608:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

SpedalFlux.1520:

you think we havent tried? we got 30man zerg camping the gate, he still slips pass… he hits the gate and instantly restealth… you cant even see him, the npc guards dont even have time to react…

Sounds like either Revealed isn’t working properly or you guys have really slow reaction times.

Well taking the OP on face value if the thief immediately restealthed that means revealed isn’t working properly, and I’ve personally fought a thief recently that was able to restealth immediately after attacking me.

there was no change to thieves at all that affected their ability to stealth repeatedly and continuously whatsoever.

there was no change to the “revealed” mechanic or any thief mechanic that would change this. the change that was announced to address this situation was reverted/cancelled before it was ever implemented.

My belief on this system is that the only way it should be contested is if the enemy is hitting your inner gate. This of course would lead to catapults and trebs in funny places, but it would mean you could get your moneys worth from a waypoint. Otherwise they should just be removed from all keeps.

Guys, if you both (you and enemy) can do it then it’s just fair. I have no thief but I sometimes roam around and knock on enemy’s gate to confuse or contest their WP.

You can also do the same to your enemy so it’s just fair. It’s unfair if they can do it and you can’t.

But yeah, it’s annoying as hell. Specially if you are on the losing end like IoJ.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Tukmolytes.3467:

Guys, if you both (you and enemy) can do it then it’s just fair. I have no thief but I sometimes roam around and knock on enemy’s gate to confuse or contest their WP.

You can also do the same to your enemy so it’s just fair. It’s unfair if they can do it and you can’t.

But yeah, it’s annoying as hell. Specially if you are on the losing end like IoJ.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Being “fair” doesn’t justify having a stupid mechanic.
In fact I would argue that it is not fair because of how much of other peoples’ time 1 person is capable of wasting with how it stands now. 1 person can easily waste a man-hour or 2 every 3 minutes with minimal effort or difficulty.

While I completely agree that this mechanic is borked, it is going to be my new hobby. We’ve had a thief from FA doing this to us for weeks. Do unto others if they are to you…or something like that.

Hadn’t played my thief in like 6 months, but got a few hours in last night. If our waypoint is going to be contested, so is yours :-). I play NA central time about 5 to 7 hours a night. And, as I am used to spending 3+ hours babysitting a keep/tower, this isn’t that different. Watch South Park, occasionally look at screen. 3 mins up…whack a door. Watch more South Park.

At least everyone’s toons will be in shape from all the running.

Ubi.4136:

Watch South Park, occasionally look at screen. 3 mins up…whack a door. Watch more South Park.

At least everyone’s toons will be in shape from all the running.

“Working as intended.” ^.~!

Just make it so that you need at least 5 people hitting a gate to make it contested. Problem solved.

The problem isn’t the number of people, it’s that there is no % minimum damage to trigger the ‘contested’ state. It should easily be 5 to 10%….whether it’s 1 or 50 attacking the gate.

something has to be done because in my case i noticed a bot was attacking the FA garrison watergate the same mesmer would teleport drop a clone and vanish while the clone kept garri contested the said mesmer was doing this routinely for over 3 days .

No comment… oh wait I do have one, perhaps learn the landscape better in Eb and than contesting will be a lot easier.

neruson.4978:

No comment… oh wait I do have one, perhaps learn the landscape better in Eb and than contesting will be a lot easier.

Who are you talking to?

Contesting should only completely prevent waypoint use when number of people attacking is greater than the number of people inside.

This allows coordination on both sides and adds something…

10% rule is the way to go hands down….As already said, a zerg can DPS a gate, so making it siege dmg only would create more problems, and a nice exploit.

With 10% you have either a true siege event, or someone who has kitten sure earned that contest lol….

gimmethegepgun.1284:

neruson.4978:

No comment… oh wait I do have one, perhaps learn the landscape better in Eb and than contesting will be a lot easier.

Who are you talking to?

To the people who contest waypoints

Just having the keep be required to take some reasonable damage (i.e, not one person running up and farting on the gate for 43 damage) to contest it would fix all this.

And no, you aren’t going to stop someone from hitting the gate once. Well I suppose you could if you wanted to set up this big dedicated squad all day making sure no one comes anywhere near it, but that’s worse than not having the waypoint.

What do you guys think about unlinking the waypoint’s contested status from the structure’s contested status? That way we can all still get our “under attack” notification ASAP, but waypoints would only become unavailable at a time that makes more sense.

I suggest reverting each structure’s contested mechanics as they were before the recently added 30 second wait, and making it so that waypoints are only contested if one of more part of the structure (walls or gates) is under 75% health.

Remove WP’s from WvW. They are dumb and encourage zerging.

FA did this to TCs keep when we were red in EB for a couple weeks straight.

It’s all part of the meta. It’s annoying, but it’s a sound tactic.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

What do you guys think about unlinking the waypoint’s contested status from the structure’s contested status? That way we can all still get our “under attack” notification ASAP, but waypoints would only become unavailable at a time that makes more sense.

I suggest reverting each structure’s contested mechanics as they were before the recently added 30 second wait, and making it so that waypoints are only contested if one of more part of the structure (walls or gates) is under 75% health.

The last thing I want is an enemy to get instant reinforcements every time we kill some of their guys when pushing into an enemy keep. Contested keeps should = contested waypoints.

Baamoink.4281:

Put trigger-able AoE everywhere :P Necromancers are able to lay down marks with their staff, & Rangers are able to lay down traps.

What is condition removal while stealth. You realize we cant do kitten to thieves right? black powder heartseeker oh look he just cleansed everything i put on him

Zelthios.5902:

Baamoink.4281:

Put trigger-able AoE everywhere :P Necromancers are able to lay down marks with their staff, & Rangers are able to lay down traps.

What is condition removal while stealth. You realize we cant do kitten to thieves right? black powder heartseeker oh look he just cleansed everything i put on him

Its not about the conditions. It’s about catching him. You would have to drop the marks/traps and then stick around to keep watch.

Hickeroar.9734:

FA did this to TCs keep when we were red in EB for a couple weeks straight.

It’s all part of the meta. It’s annoying, but it’s a sound tactic.

I think it’s a very sound tactic to be annoying. Annoyed people get upset and stop thinking about what they’re doing so much.

Hickeroar.9734:

Zelthios.5902:

Baamoink.4281:

Put trigger-able AoE everywhere :P Necromancers are able to lay down marks with their staff, & Rangers are able to lay down traps.

What is condition removal while stealth. You realize we cant do kitten to thieves right? black powder heartseeker oh look he just cleansed everything i put on him

Its not about the conditions. It’s about catching him. You would have to drop the marks/traps and then stick around to keep watch.

okay, You keep telling yourself that because I can land every mark on him while he’s stealthed but he still can teleport away. (shadowstep is a stunbreaker oh my)

Hickeroar.9734:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

What do you guys think about unlinking the waypoint’s contested status from the structure’s contested status? That way we can all still get our “under attack” notification ASAP, but waypoints would only become unavailable at a time that makes more sense.

I suggest reverting each structure’s contested mechanics as they were before the recently added 30 second wait, and making it so that waypoints are only contested if one of more part of the structure (walls or gates) is under 75% health.

The last thing I want is an enemy to get instant reinforcements every time we kill some of their guys when pushing into an enemy keep. Contested keeps should = contested waypoints.

I have to agree. Now if they made it so that there has to be a certain number of people hitting a keep (such as 5+) or a single siege hitting it to contest the waypoint, then that’s a different story, as it means you either have to waste a siege slot and resources to keep the waypoint out of commission, or you have to keep a decent sized group hitting the keep (who will probably get wiped fast, but provide a decent distraction) to keep the waypoint contested.