Guild Wars 2

skullmount.1758:

I love how you DR people keep saying we use the SAB zoom bug…

I have seen it used at Bay when you guys were in the sneaky spot on the SE side last weekend, and I have seen it used to clear inner siege at Garrison. Beyond that I have no personal experience with it. It is rather frustrating because our siege experts put a lot of time into placing siege, with overlapping fields of fire etc. It is a real science. But to have all of that thought and effort be mowed down by an exploit is discouraging.

The entire point of sieging a defensive fortification is it gives you a power multiplier, where every man on the wall is worth many outside. This is a clear and direct way an ordinary player can fight back against superior numbers. Using SAB removes this check on the zerg. While you personally may not be involved in that kind of behavior, all it takes is a few guys who do on a regular basis in key battles to really ruin the whole WvW experience. If you know who is doing this, report them please.

At Bay last night I saw no evidence of the hack. We harried your flank with a sortie, drawing you off piece by piece through arrow cart fire until your numbers were diminished to the point where we could push out and run you back to the outer wall. Had you employed the SAB trick there, it would have cleared our siege and made such a move impossible, and it would have just been a numbers game.

The sad fact is Anet puts fixing SAB exploits low on their to do list, below coming up with new gem store items and the like. It is easy to see why they would as it generates short term revenue at the expense of quality of WvW. The quality of WvW however is going to determine player longevity, and affect how many players keep playing in the end game long enough to make gem store purchases.

Even a simple fix of lifting all zoom restrictions until they could get around to solving the exploit would help, as it would put us on a level playing field with the exploiters at longer siege range.

I understand the point being made by Devon Carver. You do not want people complaining about late arrivals. The point is that a guy who tags a player with a single auto attack as 10 others pound on the same target gets the same WxP as the guy who has a brilliant 1 on 1 , and narrowly wins. For instance yesterday there was a great mezmer I ran into near the center isle who was mixing it up amid the krait and foiling many other players. That guy had skill and should be getting more WXP than a DH uplevel zergling who with 50 of his buddies mowed that mezmer down. The reward system of WXP as it stands positively reinforces the Pavlovian WXP dogs to zerg in large numbers. I like to see great skill reap great rewards, rather than great numbers reap great rewards.

Dynnen.6405:

Actually both IOJ and DH learned something outside of IOJ BL Bay keep tonight. They eventually learned to watch their flanks. It took 100+ deaths collectively for them to learn it, but they did. By the time we pulled out they were both standing near their tower/keep watching us.

Don’t worry, they’ll have forgotten it by tonight.

Dynnen.6405:

It was a great training exercise for DR as well, and one of our warriors (Interpreter) learned something very important. If the enemy has attempted a portal bomb on us once, then maybe that one guy standing out solo might be bait

Interpreter never learns. That’s why he’s still playing a warrior.

pixieish.9627:

skullmount.1758:

I love how you DR people keep saying we use the SAB zoom bug…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1iV24hL8Rk

Hehe, that’s awesome. You find some awesome videos/clips Pixie.

Lepew.7890:

snip

A real simple fix (at least it seems to me, and I don’t think should be a hard change) is that once you load a WvW map, it automatically set the fov/zoom back to a default state, no matter if it already is that one or not.

I like the way Wxp is right now, simply because I know I’m not good at PvP, so I would never win (unless I was either really lucky (which never happens) or find a player just as bad as me), which means I need to be in a zerg to be able to get the Wxp.

Re exploits, I am sure a small small small number on each side use it, but for the most part most people don’t.

I even avoid arrowcarts because of leg specialist :P

some nice skirmishes last night, sandwhiches (on both receiving and giving sides).

And OI Attic, Im still playing warrior, despite most people leaving!

CrazyCanuck.4265:

Obviously they have never seen losing weeks like DR or IoJ, or they would not care so much about winning silly T6.

The force is.. something.. with this one! XD

CrazyCanuck.4265:

I did actually try and defend all of DRBL last night, but as usual the zoom hack came by and wiped all of the inner siege, and then DH still decided to treb inner walls for another 2 hours before taking the keep with 3:1 number advantage.

You defended it all on your lonesome? Give your team mates some credit! I didnt count individual players, but seeing as how Gab said:

Gab Superstar.4059:

We lost bay but made one hell of a stand at Hills, queuing our BL and eventually completely pushed DH out of it.

(bolded for emphasis) There was never a queue for us, as far as I know, on your BL. Anyone from DH, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

I have been going to DRBL the last few nights because it has been fun. Holding east keep was a blast, even though we had 15-20 players against an apparently full queue. The nights might be mixed up, but we didnt have a queue at any point any night, afaik.

And about the hacks.. I am still waiting for more evidence as I am being accused of it by the massive generalizations used by others (typical, so not unexpected, mind you). Placing an AC right outside of a wall is actually quite useful even without an exploit, though I would call someone out if I knew they were intentionally using an exploit. As it stands, just sounds like more excuses.

To the ranger from Baltimore Style, nice fight outside of SM. I lost pretty badly, but was also in the middle of eating, lol. I still would probably lose, but Id enjoy doing a few 1v1 if someone could pass the message along, or if you read the boards. Could learn a lot from you. You were using two canines, I believe. Dont remember what weapons though.

Tuluum.9638:

Gab Superstar.4059:

We lost bay but made one hell of a stand at Hills, queuing our BL and eventually completely pushed DH out of it.

(bolded for emphasis) There was never a queue for us, as far as I know, on your BL. Anyone from DH, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

So? You were hardly short on people or outmanned, and we did push you out of the BL. Not quite seeing what point you are trying to make here.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Tuluum.9638:

Gab Superstar.4059:

We lost bay but made one hell of a stand at Hills, queuing our BL and eventually completely pushed DH out of it.

(bolded for emphasis) There was never a queue for us, as far as I know, on your BL. Anyone from DH, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

So? You were hardly short on people or outmanned, and we did push you out of the BL. Not quite seeing what point you are trying to make here.

Aww, we are talking again!

It was in response to your team mate, who said we outnumbered you 3:1. I question the veracity of that claim, given game mechanics.

Tuluum.9638:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Tuluum.9638:

Gab Superstar.4059:

We lost bay but made one hell of a stand at Hills, queuing our BL and eventually completely pushed DH out of it.

(bolded for emphasis) There was never a queue for us, as far as I know, on your BL. Anyone from DH, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

So? You were hardly short on people or outmanned, and we did push you out of the BL. Not quite seeing what point you are trying to make here.

Aww, we are talking again!

It was in response to your team mate, who said we outnumbered you 3:1. I question the veracity of that claim, given game mechanics.

He was talking about when Zoomhaven came back and took hills, not the time we smashed your 70 man zerg and pushed you out of DRBL.

Gab Superstar.4059:

He was talking about when Zoomhaven came back and took hills, not the time we smashed your 70 man zerg and pushed you out of DRBL.

Like I said, I could have gotten the nights mixed up or the “moments.” Its easy to talk about being outmanned if you are very, very selective in your perspective.

Still have yet to see a 70 man zerg on DH. Pics?

Remember too, if you “smashed our 70 man zerg” while you had the map queued and we didnt, what numbers was your zerg running at?

fost.9167:

And OI Attic, Im still playing warrior, despite most people leaving!

Without soul or purpose does the warrior wander aimlessly through the WvW.

Unbidden, unwanted, fearful of both zergs and soloers it shambles forever in twilight, knowing nothing, learning nothing, killing nothing, being nothing.

Attic.1562:

fost.9167:

And OI Attic, Im still playing warrior, despite most people leaving!

Without soul or purpose does the warrior wander aimlessly through the WvW.

Unbidden, unwanted, fearful of both zergs and soloers it shambles forever in twilight, knowing nothing, learning nothing, killing nothing, being nothing.

Tuluum.9638:

To the ranger from Baltimore Style, nice fight outside of SM. I lost pretty badly, but was also in the middle of eating, lol. I still would probably lose, but Id enjoy doing a few 1v1 if someone could pass the message along, or if you read the boards. Could learn a lot from you. You were using two canines, I believe. Dont remember what weapons though.

Most likely Rez On. I think he has an 80 of every class. You can see his movies (including Ranger movies) below.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXRV4qHPY5nBpN7k8O4FNpA

Oozo.7856:

Tuluum.9638:

To the ranger from Baltimore Style, nice fight outside of SM. I lost pretty badly, but was also in the middle of eating, lol. I still would probably lose, but Id enjoy doing a few 1v1 if someone could pass the message along, or if you read the boards. Could learn a lot from you. You were using two canines, I believe. Dont remember what weapons though.

Most likely Rez On. I think he has an 80 of every class. You can see his movies (including Ranger) movies below.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXRV4qHPY5nBpN7k8O4FNpA

Thank you very much Oozo! Ill check it out.

Crazy and Gab are talking about 2 different fights, not the same one. I was at hills for 1 of those fights and it was as he stated. There were several screen shots, from different fights, showing the exploit in action, but Mods removed them, as they should. It just made a fun situation bad, and that’s all I have to say about it.

As far as ques, DH had no que for DRBL, but you did have a que for EB. So those on DH, that wanted to play in wvw, could come to our BL since it was available. We had a blast with people coming to our BL that were there to fight and actually play. My earlier post was about our mini fight club with Swindler and Co. People playing with other people, from all over the world ( Canada, US, Asia ), and it was AWESOME.

There is a very small minority, on every server I’d bet, that uses an unfair, read hack/exploit, advantage. Sooner or later Anet will weed them out and the game will be all the better for everyone. Anyone who favors hacks/exploits/bots has no place in an online game imho.

Partunu.9845:

Crazy and Gab are talking about 2 different fights, not the same one. I was at hills for 1 of those fights and it was as he stated. There were several screen shots, from different fights, showing the exploit in action, but Mods removed them, as they should. It just made a fun situation bad, and that’s all I have to say about it.

As far as ques, DH had no que for DRBL, but you did have a que for EB. So those on DH, that wanted to play in wvw, could come to our BL since it was available. We had a blast with people coming to our BL that were there to fight and actually play. My earlier post was about our mini fight club with Swindler and Co. People playing with other people, from all over the world ( Canada, US, Asia ), and it was AWESOME.

There is a very small minority, on every server I’d bet, that uses an unfair, read hack/exploit, advantage. Sooner or later Anet will weed them out and the game will be all the better for everyone. Anyone who favors hacks/exploits/bots has no place in an online game imho.

I was pretty sure they were My intent was to show how selective “listening” can allow ourselves to hear exactly what we want.

I agree about the hacking/exploits. Its too bad GW2 seems so easily hacked too. I know they say they do bans, etc, but have not seen evidence of this. Given that I have been playing these types of games since Ultima though, you kind of grow to grudgingly accept it as part and parcel of the experience. Same with unfair fights, numbers advantages, juvenile behavior, etc.

I have yet to take part in a fight club, might try it out sometime. Like I said before, Im not some elite player or anything. I have always expected everyone there would very likely beat me. Still might be fun though if I run across them.

As far as the arrow cart thing. I’ve seen arrow carts placed flush up against an outer wall (dead giveaway for exploiting a zoom hack or bug). I’ve also seen an arrow cart placed inside a wall and used for defense. Both I’ve seen this week, but not in earlier weeks. It has been someone or some people from DH that have been doing it.

Oozo.7856:

As far as the arrow cart thing. I’ve seen arrow carts placed flush up against an outer wall (dead giveaway for exploiting a zoom hack or bug). I’ve also seen an arrow cart placed inside a wall and used for defense. Both I’ve seen this week, but not in earlier weeks. It has been someone or some people from DH that have been doing it.

It might be indicative of a hack/exploit, but I am not convinced it is a dead giveaway. Ill explain my reasoning;

If you place an AC in a position that can attack people trying to repair the gate, as well as defend against any rushes, it can be very effective. By placing it RIGHT by the wall, it minimizes LoS from defenders on the wall and can even go completely unseen sometimes while still providing damage and CC (especially with a leg specialist warrior at the controls). Placing it inside the wall might be viewed as exploitative as a leg specialist warrior that can lay down immobilize repeatedly with zero CD (at least when viewing each pulse of the AC attack), especially if you have a few of them. Both are not explicitly stated to be “cheating,” but it could be said they both take advantage of game mechanics in a way that developers might not have foreseen.

If you place a bali at distance, you can also defend the AC against any who try to melee it, though thats not particularly relevant to the discussion I suppose.

We’re onto you IOJ… pro siegerazor assassin squad.

@Oozo – Totally agree. This is new to me for the current match up. I saw other things used by other servers, most of which were fixed long ago.

@Tuluum – Same here. Been in mmo’ish games since Meridian 59 beta ( not counting BBS or muds ), and have been going ever since. And, for the record, I did ask if you were on, but they didn’t know your user account name, and I didn’t know what your in game toon name was, so it was a missed opportunity for massive fun. I had a very long fight with Swindler, who beat us all, but won every thing else ( Nerf mesmers, buff me! )

Partunu.9845:

@Tuluum – Same here. Been in mmo’ish games since Meridian 59 beta ( not counting BBS or muds ), and have been going ever since. And, for the record, I did ask if you were on, but they didn’t know your user account name, and I didn’t know what your in game toon name was, so it was a missed opportunity for massive fun. I had a very long fight with Swindler, who beat us all, but won every thing else ( Nerf mesmers, buff me! )

Hey, I appreciate the thought Partunu!

You can see my account name to the right <- Though I know you know that! I am unclear if private messages can be sent cross server still. All I know is that I cant talk to some of my friends on TC anymore, but I dont know if thats a bug specific to me or if they clamped down on it due to abuse or whatever. I tend to keep to myself at this point, so most have no idea who I am. No one logs into my guild anymore, and I have been bugged from joining any others (though I did recently get a random invite, so maybe thats fixed).

For future reference, the character I run pretty much exclusively now is Sengularadi (Ranger). Though, my other characters are Tuluumen (ele), Oerbidal (engi), Hunivirs (necro), Kwaeczar (mes). Only one that isnt 80 is the mes. Seng used to be my thiefs name, but deleted that.

Oozo.7856:

As far as the arrow cart thing. I’ve seen arrow carts placed flush up against an outer wall (dead giveaway for exploiting a zoom hack or bug). I’ve also seen an arrow cart placed inside a wall and used for defense. Both I’ve seen this week, but not in earlier weeks. It has been someone or some people from DH that have been doing it.

If its up against the wall, how the heck are YOU using to get people? If its right against the wall, then doing AOE on the wall can still damage it. I’ve done that with the gates , especially with the flamethrower.

Nvm, guess I read that wrong.

Well, some people on DH are doing it. It won’t change the outcome of the match, but it ruins the fun for those who have invested time and effort into building defensive siege only to have it taken out by cheaters.

Oozo.7856:

As far as the arrow cart thing. I’ve seen arrow carts placed flush up against an outer wall (dead giveaway for exploiting a zoom hack or bug). I’ve also seen an arrow cart placed inside a wall and used for defense. Both I’ve seen this week, but not in earlier weeks. It has been someone or some people from DH that have been doing it.

And this is the problem. This arrow cart zoom bug/hack is annoying, aggravating, and depressing. My guild [AoD] knows allot about siege usage, placement, and how well used siege can turn the tide of nearly any battle short of the enemy outnumbering you so greatly. So when I place an arrow cart inside our keep, BEHIND the gate like 20 feet, the enemy can’t hit it back (unless they use good treb shots over the walls/gates). So when I see the work our guild has done sieging up a keep so that it will be well defended when people use the siege, I feel glad. But this is all destroyed very quickly when as the DH zerg come to our gate, and I suddenly see the red aoe arrow cart circles raining down on our siege.
I have seen this arrow cart zoom hack/bugplentyy of times now in the past 4 days. I have seen WHERE they place said arrow carts. I have tried to replicate it by putting my arrow carts in the same places, and no matter what camera angle or resolution I try, I CAN’T hit stuff on the other side of the gate/walls. (and no, not using this dumbSBAB camera bug people talk about) When I see the DH zerg outside our keeps using this arrow cart bug/hack to take out our siege we took alot of time to placing, it just gives a bad name for DH,especiallyy when they already outnumber us when attacking said keep.

A response from Anet about this arrow cart problem would be a great help. Or even better, a fix. :/

Heads up, WvW reset is now 2 hours earlier.
link

Oozo.7856:

Well, some people on DH are doing it. It won’t change the outcome of the match, but it ruins the fun for those who have invested time and effort into building defensive siege only to have it taken out by cheaters.

I agree, something like that is downright frustrating. I just wanted to communicate that I see valid reasons for such placement, but it certainly doesnt mean that there arent those who exploit in various different ways including zoomhacks, teleporting, etc. I suspect that I may have even helped build some of those ACs that were exploited, but like I said, I also see valid reasoning behind the positioning of such siege as well. Its impossible to determine if another is using an exploit like this unless they come right out and say it, and I prefer to give others the benefit of the doubt if I have no proof. Even pictures and videos can be doctored (DRed? :P) to suit someones personal agenda, so I question the validity of them as well. I have experienced some very interesting things in my life, and have learned that the extent to which some will go to prove their point and agenda truly knows no bounds.

Maybe I am just jaded at this point, but I have come to expect it in any online game. That does NOT mean I condone it, but all I can do is choose not to do it myself. I just dont like the generalizations that take place that accuse every DH player of doing this, whether directly or by insinuation. But, I do suppose that is supported by the system in GW2, where it is pretty much “faceless” opponents.

Fallout.1798:

A response from Anet about this arrow cart problem would be a great help. Or even better, a fix. :/

I hope a fix is in the works as well. I looked into it a bit on youtube and was pretty surprised at just how easy it is to do everything from zoomhacks to map teleporting to flying to being able to go directly through walls. In a modern MMO, I find it to be pretty disappointing honestly.

But, to say it paints the entire server as cheaters is a huge generalization. You will find many that do not support this knowingly. I have seen questionable things from every single server DH has gone up against, but I dont go so far as to think it sullies the rep of the guild tag I see, much less the entire server. Thats just me though, and thats all any of us does; communicate our own perspective.

@skullmount- sarcasm noted. You are likely better than you let on. I still think WXP should go to good play, not to zerg action. Have you ever had a long drawn out fight with someone else, and realized at the end of it you get the same WXP for that as you would on a lvl1 uplevel chunking a single autoattack on a zerg target? Think Anet is making a huge mistake here rewarding zerging to avoid exclusion.

Every time I move my ranger close to a wall for a barrage, I can not place the ground target anywhere but on edge of the wall as my camera is pinned beneath the overhang. The fact that an arrow cart placed next to the wall can hit stuff on the far side of the wall is hard evidence that hacks are involved. While occasionally people do dumb things and build trebs instead of rams outside of the gate, that arrow cart placement is a pretty decent indicator that they were putting it someplace where it could not be seen, but they had some way of seeing from that position not available to others. So if you see someone in your zerg build one there, take their name please and report. I will do the same if I see anyone on my side doing it.

Lepew.7890:

So if you see someone in your zerg build one there, take their name please and report. I will do the same if I see anyone on my side doing it.

I cant say I agree with that.

It is a valid placement, hacks not included. A leg specialist traited warrior with one arrow cart can essentially lock down movement in and out of the gate, as well as damage anyone who tries to repair the gate. It allows the siege to be placed directly near the mass of people, making it easier to defend, and it also takes advantage of LoS to the extent that it can even go unseen by the defenders (though it doesnt happen much). Beyond that, it also forces defenders to jump up on the lip of the wall to hit it, making it easier to pull them off and then be consequently locked down so they cant re-enter. Its efficacy in these regards is situational, but there are valid reasons to use such placement beyond hacks.

Lepew.7890:

Every time I move my ranger close to a wall for a barrage, I can not place the ground target anywhere but on edge of the wall as my camera is pinned beneath the overhang. The fact that an arrow cart placed next to the wall can hit stuff on the far side of the wall is hard evidence that hacks are involved. While occasionally people do dumb things and build trebs instead of rams outside of the gate, that arrow cart placement is a pretty decent indicator that they were putting it someplace where it could not be seen, but they had some way of seeing from that position not available to others. So if you see someone in your zerg build one there, take their name please and report. I will do the same if I see anyone on my side doing it.

That is my policy on cheaters also, I will report them, regardless of if they are on my team or the enemy team. I hate cheaters. Play the game fairly the way everyone else does, or don’t play at all.

And while I know that tecknicly only a handfull of DH players are doing this, and its bad to say that its all of DarkHaven doing this, it’s hard to keep that in mind. When our keeps fall over and over again because this arrow cart hack/bug was used, it’s just sad. And we end up in map chat going, “DH is doing the arrow cart hack AGAIN?!?!?! ugh.”
So please DH, if you see someone building these kind of placed arrow carts, don’t build them.

Tuluum.9638:

Lepew.7890:

So if you see someone in your zerg build one there, take their name please and report. I will do the same if I see anyone on my side doing it.

I cant say I agree with that.

It is a valid placement, hacks not included. A leg specialist traited warrior with one arrow cart can essentially lock down movement in and out of the gate, as well as damage anyone who tries to repair the gate. It allows the siege to be placed directly near the mass of people, making it easier to defend, and it also takes advantage of LoS to the extent that it can even go unseen by the defenders (though it doesnt happen much). Beyond that, it also forces defenders to jump up on the lip of the wall to hit it, making it easier to pull them off and then be consequently locked down so they cant re-enter. Its efficacy in these regards is situational, but there are valid reasons to use such placement beyond hacks.

Tuluum, you do make some good points.
(1) When you are catapulting the wall, there are not a lot of people next to that wall. Most everyone else ranging the wall will be further back from the wall trying to get line of sight. So I disagree with the claim that there are many people next to the wall. You have those manning siege, and thats it.
(2) Lockdown in and out of the gate can be accomplished by an AC further back as well. In fact, putting it just beyond range 1500 will cut down on all fire from the wall, and those people trying to hit it with bows etc will still be hopping toward the edge to range it. This position also can legitimately see people on the wall, siege on the wall and target all of that.
(3) Once the AC fire starts, you better believe people will be looking for where that AC is. This is why we spot the exploits, as we are getting hit well inside the walls with AC fire and can not figure out how. The arcing direction of the AC points roughly to where it is.
(4) Stacking the siege all in the same spot makes it more vulnerable to destruction that does get through. An AC back from the wall but still within support fire range of your catapults does still achieve the same support function, but now the enemy must direct fire at 2 locations instead of one to take it down.

I do agree with the fact that if you are spamming AC fire on top of your catapults, then anyone who gets yanked into that has a hard time trying to get back in. But that can be done from beyond the wall as well. Overall I think it is a poor strategic placement for the reasons outlined above, and I think it is more of an indicator of exploit than it is an indicator of properly placed siege.

Indeed I do

anet prefers 15 chars

@Lepew;

Really, my point was just that reporting because of siege placement that might be indicative of an exploit isnt exactly what we should be doing. It also wasnt necessarily referring to the overall efficacy of the placement.

I dont find them particularly useful on walls, but gates. I also wouldnt be using them to cover catas, as catas arent all that great on gates. Normally, range is better for catas when hitting a gate. Nor do I think it is particularly useful for taking care of siege (though it does work for it to an extent). I also did not suggest placing it in the same area as any other siege, only that it is up against the wall.

The idea is more to control the flow in and out of the portal (specifically on objectives that only have one) as well as hitting people trying to repair the gate since it can cover the area at the same time. Its about diversification. You have one leg specialist traited warrior on an AC right along the wall, but also have some covering other areas. I wouldnt really suggest solely using a bunch of arrow carts in the same spot. Its about diversification of placement for the reasons you mention. It just allows for another placement that can make use of LoS, regardless of whether or not people will look for it.

Obviously, defenders will be looking to locate any and all siege. Think of it more like bait that can bite, and you have a better idea of what I am getting at. It can absolutely, 100% go unseen in some circumstances. But, if it isnt, you know exactly where people will be trying to get to first. In this way, you can cover the placement from afar with balis, etc with the idea that defenders will be going after it. These same balis can take care of those locked down with immobilize that are trying to get back inside. At the same time, it provides cover and control around the portal/gate area and is easily defendable by anyone near the gate.

I also tend to think that if you only use the “best” placement every single time, you become far, far too predictable and countering predictability is pretty easy.

Edit: Feel free to use it, not use it, whatever. My point wasnt about preference or efficacy, it was pointing out that it has completely legitimate uses beyond an exploit. So, reporting someone solely for legitimate siege placement is based on what may very well be false assumptions.

@Tuluum

I get your point of it may be plausible that someone might legitimately place siege there. The thing about reporting though is if the situation is somewhat fishy, you report it. Anet may ignore the first, but after about 10 reports on the same person, well, they might take a closer look. Not reporting it does little to establish a record. I do not equate a report with a ban, I think of it more as establishing a record that may rise to the level of Anet investigation if reports continue.

The catas at the time of the exploit on Bay were in the spot next to the wall to the left of the gate on SE side. There were 3-4 catapults and an AC in that niche next to the wall. There was no LOS on the door from that point, and the arrows from that AC were on the far side of the wall. This was clear case exploit imo.

It did occur to me that if the primary concern was enemy siege having LOS on you, then one might think perhaps that was a good spot. But really anyone in that corner there would have only been able to rain arrows right down on their own catapults or perhaps further back into the zerg at the wall area. My ranger on the wall was able to land 3 barrages into that pack before I got yanked, so I do not really agree with the whole notion of drawing me out for a wall yank.

If the AC is on top of rams or catapults, people still will go to that spot even if the AC was down because that is where the siege is that is battering down the wall/door. The bait value of the AC is low because there is already bait there. A better strategy is to separate the AC from the ram/catapult because they must now decide whether they will try to burn down the ram/catapult while getting arrowed, or take out the AC first and let the rams/catapults pound a bit more.

There are people in T6 using the zoom exploit, and really I think you should just report it if it rises to the level of fishy. You don’t have to be certain it is an exploit. I know for instance one of our commanders got reported for what someone thought was a hack when it was in fact just a portal bomb. We all laughed at the report, and I don’t think anything came of it. Report it and let Anet sort it out.

If i use an arrow cart, whilst on high reso monitor my monitor 64 inch, i can switch the guildwars 2 settings to window mode and see behind a wall without any mod. So if i am on arrow cart, see that i can hit your siege. I have to resist the massive urge to kill it because “normal” people cant hit it?

Lepew.7890:

@skullmount- sarcasm noted. You are likely better than you let on. I still think WXP should go to good play, not to zerg action. Have you ever had a long drawn out fight with someone else, and realized at the end of it you get the same WXP for that as you would on a lvl1 uplevel chunking a single autoattack on a zerg target? Think Anet is making a huge mistake here rewarding zerging to avoid exclusion.

Every time I move my ranger close to a wall for a barrage, I can not place the ground target anywhere but on edge of the wall as my camera is pinned beneath the overhang. The fact that an arrow cart placed next to the wall can hit stuff on the far side of the wall is hard evidence that hacks are involved. While occasionally people do dumb things and build trebs instead of rams outside of the gate, that arrow cart placement is a pretty decent indicator that they were putting it someplace where it could not be seen, but they had some way of seeing from that position not available to others. So if you see someone in your zerg build one there, take their name please and report. I will do the same if I see anyone on my side doing it.

Trust me, any 1 on 1 that I’ve done, I’ve lost. It most likely since I never use any of the known builds/traits, never change my traits up, either just mash the number keys/user skills too early, or some other thing. Thats why I’ve never done s/tPvP. Its just not my kind of thing.

As for the AC placement argument going on, if you see the AC firing and see the arrows fall (I’m pretty sure you can see something where they’ve fired) and its in a place it shouldn’t be, you might as well report them.

If I were on an arrow cart I would be drunk and lost because siege is boring

@Lepew;

Simply put, I would much rather Anets resources be put into fixing it than exploring and verifying which reports are valid or not.

We can argue for eternity on what we feel is more effective, but in the end, its all situational anyway. For me, I like diversity and utilizing every tool and option at my disposal. For others, it is using what they perceive as the “best” every single time. Different strokes, and all that. I never look for “sure things,” because I dont feel it exists really. I look at things in terms of percentages and ways to increase those percentages in my teams favor. Not everyone does though, and thats certainly fine.

Ill report if I know a hack/exploit is currently happening.

Hey Diamanta,

Your detailed explanation on how to exploit will likely get your post banned. If Anet were to remove all walls from view while you manned a siege engine, then I think you could make a reasonable case that the intent of the game designer is for line of sight not to matter at all for siege engines. The reality though is those walls are there for most everyone except in the mode you describe, which makes it much more likely that you are looking at a bug and you are exploiting that bug for advantage.

There are a large number of people in gaming who think that because the game lets them do X, they should do X, and will continue to do X until they get banned or it gets patched. In GW2 getting banned means shelling out money for a new copy of the game, and Anet profits by doing so, so it might be in your self interest to act in a manner that will not get you banned.

Diamanta Mirabella.4593:

If i use an arrow cart, whilst on high reso monitor my monitor 64 inch, i can switch the guildwars 2 settings to window mode and see behind a wall without any mod. So if i am on arrow cart, see that i can hit your siege. I have to resist the massive urge to kill it because “normal” people cant hit it?

I hate these weekly threads but I couldn’t resist this time……I yield, your monitor is bigger than mine…../cry in corner.

Lepew.7890:

Hey Diamanta,

Your detailed explanation on how to exploit will likely get your post banned. If Anet were to remove all walls from view while you manned a siege engine, then I think you could make a reasonable case that the intent of the game designer is for line of sight not to matter at all for siege engines. The reality though is those walls are there for most everyone except in the mode you describe, which makes it much more likely that you are looking at a bug and you are exploiting that bug for advantage.

There are a large number of people in gaming who think that because the game lets them do X, they should do X, and will continue to do X until they get banned or it gets patched. In GW2 getting banned means shelling out money for a new copy of the game, and Anet profits by doing so, so it might be in your self interest to act in a manner that will not get you banned.

It cant possibly be an exploit if im playing guildwars in a normal manner, and i can click attack on an arrow cart. Arrow carts shoot from above.

your line of sight opinion is invalid since, when we stand at a gate. Or even when you stand at a gate, the people inside the tower with an arrow cart can hit you from inside the tower. I’ve seen arrow carts behind doors of DR/IoJ and in other tiers, HoD and GoM Where an arrow cart is in the tower, on the floor hitting us at the gate. I am just stating the guildwars 2 settings that i use, and i see the the inside of tower. I cant help what the game gives me on a daily basis. I cant guess what normal people see and what normal people cant see.

If anet remove this resolution that i use, the game will just look silly for us using a big screen. Imagine a 64 inch and all u see is the gate, and a a zerg smashing on it.

So uhm… What is Darkhaven trying to achieve right now? I thought you wanted a new match up, at least one without DR in it?

Equalizing the score between IoJ and DR by pushing into our BL when IoJ is already doing just that, is going to reduce the amount of rating points DH gain, and decrease the amount of rating points that IoJ lose. This will lead to a much longer match up between these three servers.

@ Tuluum- thanks for the civil discussion. See you out there.

@Acelerion- lol. Hear you. I started making knock knock jokes while manning the ram. The whole siege/supply aspect of this game is fun if you like the strategic aspect. It is sort of like HOMM, Empire or Civilization or any of the other strategy games in which competent use of resources wins campaigns. Siege becomes interesting for me when the enemy is cutting off your supply camps and your depot is near dry, and you have to think about where to put it to make it count. All of that subgame is out the window when someone can AC down your siege through walls with exploits. I don’t really see much point to WvW if the siege/supply aspect is bypassed, as structured PvP would then have more to offer. I really get highly annoyed when the extent of the DH strategy is to have the zerg autoattack the door…come on…no supply, no siege, just millions of people autoattacking a door. We can do better.

@Oozo- that link to girl drama is way too close to the stuff I get from my teenage daughter in RL. I play GW2 to get away from that. If I want more of that, all I have to do is go upstairs and tell her to clean her room, and watch the emo ramp up out of control. Loved your videos the other day btw.

Gab, i think its fair to say that a good portion of our wvw base right now doesnt understand how the glicko system works and how points are awarded. They just think that killing is gettin er done.

Although i do have to say, i have seen alot of new players actually trying to learn the system and do their best to participate in a positive manner.

3 times this past week ive heard " what is supply for" in wvw map chat. So when you see something wonky going on, its safe to say its new folks learning the ropes.

In regards to this arrow cart business, ive never heard of it before. its amazing how people will try the craziest crap to get a one up on someone.

About the tiers changing, i have a feeling that SF is going to come up and either DR or Ioj will go down. then depending on how darkhaven does the following week,and how borlis does in the tier above us will determine if we move up to T5 or the remaining DR/IoJ goes down and henge takes their place.

I feel that a darkhaven/Henge/SOrrows furnace would be a great matchup. I also feel that Ioj/Devona/shiverpeaks would be cool too.

As a side note..and a bit of good times..if you have a second go to you tube and look up the “aint nobody got time for that” news cast…..it put a smile on my face!

Enjoy!

Vo (Jaxx) the ele
Hy (jaxx) the Engie
Whoa (jaxx) the Ranger

I <3 GRIM

I wish mods would read and perhaps even comprehend posts before they delete them.

Hey, maybe one of them would do me a courtesy and send me a PM so we can discuss things like actual people instead of engaging in all this passive aggressive nonsense.

Edit: Make sure you guys +1 Gabby for breaking his record. It’s only polite.

IOJ and reset night was a prime example of using the points in a way that HAD they used that from day 1, they would have had DR in a serious hurt locker for days.

And my update : Great. Now my posts are getting deleted because I quoted someone else. That’s it! No more quoting you people. Consider yourselves all off my quote lists.
( disclaimer : Applies to everyone except Charcat. Who doesn’t want to quote Charcat? No really. Who? )

Its always my tamer posts that earn infraction points

Partunu.9845:

Who doesn’t want to quote Charcat? No really. Who? )

I thought about it yesterday, but then I decided to abuse Dynnen instead and forgot about it.

Attic your post is off topic and may lead to thread derailment. God help us.