Guild Wars 2

We’re told to “play the way we want to play” but looking at how defense stacks up against raw damage in GW2, I know that is bullkitten. Full clerics and food and still getting hit for 8k backstabs? Well, tough kitten. I’m fine with condition damage ignoring armor but some classes have low HP pools and you’d think they’d decrease condition duration or something by a small percentage every x amount of toughness. Top notch game design, they didn’t want a trinity but they pigeon holed players anyway.

gennyt.3428:

they didn’t want a trinity but they pigeon holed players anyway.

QFT !

dank.3680:

Littlefeather.8623:

Any one with over 3.5k armor does not get hit for over 6k period.

It is condition spamz that armor has no affect on, low HP classes should be given the best conditon removals in the game, high HP classes should be given the lesser ones. Give guardians better condi removal, some that will not take up slots/traits for our build, as it is now, we can not keep up with the condi spamz and deal decent dmg, unlike necros.

Way wrong.. On my warrior with 3800 armor another warrior evisc me for 9k two different times, with no vuln on me.

Well maybe warriors are squshy compared to guardians, I have 3.5k armor, and I NEVER have gotten hit for over 6k by melee, maybe 8k with glass killshot, but thats it.

Bailey.6892:

Toughness and armor needs to do a lot more against non condition attacks than it currently does. A heavy armor user with over 3k armor should NEVER get hit for 6k plus.

and they VERY rarely do. The OP might have been hit for that much but there were likely some significant factors involved.

Toughness scales with healing so builds that have heavy healing do MUCH better with toughness. Vit is a one shot deal. A very simple example with a fight that goes 1 minute dishing 1k direct damage on 2127 power per second with four heals of 5k each:

2500v, 0t, Armor=2127, Health=35805
- 15s in Health = 25805
- 30s in Health = 15805
- kitten in Health = 5805
- 52s in Dead

1250v, 1250t, Armor=3377, Health=23305
- 15s in Health = 18855
- 30s in Health = 14405
- kitten in Health = 9955
- 60s in Health = 5505

0v, 2500t, Armor=4627, Health=10805
- 15s in Health = 8920
- 30s in Health = 7035
- kitten in Health = 5150
- 60s in Health = 3265

So the more healing there is in a fight the better toughness works against direct damage hence big groups benefit heavily from toughness so long as there is a lot of healing/cleansing in the group. Now that conditions are dominating, easing up on toughness and putting it in vitality does make sense but zerker builds are still plentiful so a balance of toughness/vitality is in order.

What happens to your armor with ~20 stacks of vulnerability? Maybe that’s where your 7K hits are coming from.

OP’s right about stealth though.

Name ONE game where Developers have ever gotten Stealth perfectly balanced.

….A single player game was all you could come up with, wasn’t <—> it??
I rest my case…

ilr.9675:

OP’s right about stealth though.

Name ONE game where Developers have ever gotten Stealth perfectly balanced.

….A single player game was all you could come up with, wasn’t <—> it??
I rest my case…

Depends on how “balance” is defined. We do not know the stats from WvW so only ANet likely knows how deadly stealth really is. IMO AoE classes are likely going to dominate DPS and K/D ratios. I doubt thieves rank in the top 3 of DPS or kill stats.

There is the trinity in this game. It’s called: warrior.

Straegen.2938:

ilr.9675:

OP’s right about stealth though.

Name ONE game where Developers have ever gotten Stealth perfectly balanced.

….A single player game was all you could come up with, wasn’t <—> it??
I rest my case…

Depends on how “balance” is defined. We do not know the stats from WvW so only ANet likely knows how deadly stealth really is. IMO AoE classes are likely going to dominate DPS and K/D ratios. I doubt thieves rank in the top 3 of DPS or kill stats.

The real problem with stealth isn’t about whether you can tweak the stats on the various classes to achieve some form of statistical balance, it’s that stealth is an extremely frustrating mechanic to fight against in a PvP game. Stealth has almost no counterplay in most games because characters who have it can simply avoid or escape most fights that put them at a disadvantage, and yet maintain an easy position to leap into any fight where the odds are in their favor. It gives any character much lower risks when pursuing high rewards.

People hate thieves in GW2 for the same reason. It’s not that the thief is necessarily the strongest PvP class in the game, it’s that a properly-played thief can engineer the outcome of almost any encounter as either a successful kill or a successful escape, and that makes them very frustrating to fight regardless of how powerful they actually are in combat.

This game does favor damage output in 1v1 situations. A full glass, zerker thief can trait into backstab and can easily hit you for 8k damage.

However, hammer warriors aren’t meant for running solo and shouldn’t be setup that way anyhow. If you didn’t do hammer shock, healing surge, then earthshaker in the first 2 seconds following the backstab, then you are doing something wrong as well.

Littlefeather.8623:

I have over that and get hit for 7k quite a bit. I have 0 problems with condition, runes food and ability’s take care of that.

I call BS, you must be a Necro…

I have 3.5k And thieves melt infront of my GS, so yea BS.

ANd to defend condi’s? yea you must be a necro…

Guardian actually, just because you cant play your class well doesn’t mean the rest of us cant.

l2p and conditions wont be a problem, fail to l2p and keep whining about conditions.

Direwind.8409:

So, I have 3900 armor, I have sacrificed a lot of damage to get this, but what the hell is the point, I was under the illusion that armor meant mitigation of damage?! like hell it is, it makes little to no difference; you are still hit for 7k+ conditions still kitten you no matter how many times you remove them since they can be put on faster than can be removed, then you have the confusion spamming kitten that will outright kill you almost instantly if you miss the fact that it was stacked to 16+ in 1 second.

Why bother with Armor/toughness, it seems the only viable defence is stealth, immune utilities and high damage.

Check the direct damage formula on the Wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

The toughness (armor) mitigation looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/3SKkP2R.png

As you can see, the more armor you get, the less % of damage reduction you get from the same amount of points.

As you said, damage immunity is really powerful in game and, as a warrior, you have access to endure pain (twice, from ability and from trait) and shield block, so get more damage and become immune to conter the burst.

For conditions, you may also consider a traited warhorn and/or shouts with runes of the soldier.

Littlefeather.8623:

Any one with over 3.5k armor does not get hit for over 6k period.

It is condition spamz that armor has no affect on, low HP classes should be given the best conditon removals in the game, high HP classes should be given the lesser ones. Give guardians better condi removal, some that will not take up slots/traits for our build, as it is now, we can not keep up with the condi spamz and deal decent dmg, unlike necros.

i have a screenshot of a 5k CnD and a 8.1K backstab on my warrior who has 3300+ armor…. so ya

Not our fault all these kitten regen warrs and heal guardians are near impossible to take down with direct damage yet they can stunlock while dealing enough damage to be dangerous. Conditions are apparently they way to go with killing them. Don’t warriors have like 30K HP and guardians have lots of condi removal? I dunno, I hate the heavy armor classes.

CrassBippy.4619:

i have a screenshot of a 5k CnD and a 8.1K backstab on my warrior who has 3300+ armor…. so ya

Then that thief was full zerker and would blow up if you accidentally touched him.

Blix got this perfectly because its against a thief what’s TC is saying is most noticeable. Condis being armor ignoring is perfectly fine and their main advantage but getting hit for 12k in one hit with 2k toughness doesn’t feel right for me personally. Toughness should scale differently

Chris.3290:

This game does favor damage output in 1v1 situations. A full glass, zerker thief can trait into backstab and can easily hit you for 8k damage.

However, hammer warriors aren’t meant for running solo and shouldn’t be setup that way anyhow. If you didn’t do hammer shock, healing surge, then earthshaker in the first 2 seconds following the backstab, then you are doing something wrong as well.

Depends on class and build but certainly does not favor damage over defense and sustain.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Meglobob.8620:

2750 armour provides 33.33% direct damage mitigation, a lot of people consider it a waste taking toughness higher than that.

But protection buff does that too reduces damage by 33.33%, my ele uses 2 armour of earths (1 utility, 1 traited) instead of bothering with toughness. Rarely dies and once went straight through a 100 strong zerg (on her own) and survived.

Agreed I have re-tooled most of my toons to hover around 2800, like you said the difference is really negligible over that.

I didnt know this thankyou… my war is 4.3k armor with health regen banners but only 3.4k power before bloodlust with a 20% crit chance, 24k health and its the condition meta that still makes me feel useless…

Sorry but I wont tell you how you shoulkd play but what is sure is tough is useful but not tough ALONE. Work on build and l2p

Every class when played decently can counter a thief solo… every single one (and that includes a ranger). If a player cannot, it is because either that player’s build isn’t solo friendly or they need more practice.

If a player uses a roamer build and gets routinely owned by thieves, they should adjust the build and practice more. If that player uses a compromised build for skirmish/zerg play, don’t expect to got toe to toe with any decent roamer build played by an equally skilled player and win.

CrassBippy.4619:

i have a screenshot of a 5k CnD and a 8.1K backstab on my warrior who has 3300+ armor…. so ya

I would like to see that screenshot. That is a hell of hit without any significant conditions in the mix.

((806 * 2.4 * 3500) * 4.00) / 3300

Possible but that thief was balls out on power and modifiers. A hit that big should be REALLY rare and they were complete glass.