Guild Wars 2

wow 100% – Downed in 2 ticks

I rarely post here but this Epidemic stuff is way out of hand, saying there is a counter to Epidemic right now is just insane. It makes me think the person who is saying it is out of touch with the WvW meta. Epidemic is insanely broken right now and anyone who says otherwise either doesn’t WvW enough or mains a Condi Necro lol, pls fix.

62 bleed
25 vulnerability
39 poison
24 confusion
8 burning
2 torment
1 immobilize
1 blind
1 chill
1 cripple
1 fear
1 weakness

Now obviously the problem here is there wasn’t enough burn stacks, and now Anet has addressed that with some buffs to burning for Engineers. Also Necromancers need a buff to apply more torment because 2 stacks was really weak.

All joking aside.. this also shows how dumb it was to take the 25 stack cap off of players. Once again their solution to conditions is to place yet another bandaid solution instead of taking a good look at the boon vs conditions war, which needs to be toned down in the core and not applying bandaids to try and keep it in control.

But hey you know what, players have been asking for aoes changed from 5 to 10 targets to help punish large groups, and epi spam sorta does that, although it sucks when the bigger zerg is running with more epimancers.

Player issue on ele, out of position to get ally buffss and cleanses :^)

Kekkei Genkai Kage.5930:

Player issue on ele, out of position to get ally buffss and cleanses :^)

Said player had 2,300 ping from the server.

Said player should get alien ware

62 bleed stacks lol.

Does the ele have a screenshot showing how much it ticked for?

Wait negative condi duration doesn’t work on transferred condis? WTfF?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw

Anyhow, blasting light fields isn’t going to mean a kitten , but it does look like various anti-condi skills have been buffed.

Healing Rain: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 45 seconds to 40 seconds.

Virtue of Resolve: This skill has been unsplit from PvP and will now use a 30-second cooldown. (This is pretty big— 33% cooldown reductoon)

“Receive the Light!”: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 40 seconds to 30 seconds. (More potential cleanses and sustain)

“Shake It Off!”: The number of conditions removed by this skill has been increased from 1 to 2.

As a side note, all those banner buffs— wouldn’t this be an opportunity to buff battle standard?

Signet of Agility: Condition cleansing has been increased from 1 to 3 in all game modes.
lel invite thieves to your zergs.

More group cleanses could be considered; they need to not be easily interrupted. Maybe if you’d give engineers respect, you’d make those elixirs not reflectable and help the group more. There’s also an oppurtunity to make Medical Dispersion Field help with condis and not be garbage but hah you think there’s only 8 classes in this game. /salty

I also suggest buffing anti-condi food. Either increase the – duration or give -condition damage. Sure, that makes it better than condi food but this is because we have gear that increases condi duration but none that decreases it. Either that or consider capping 25 stacks on players-- pretty sure that would help server stability too.

To add, the fight this was from was not near an objective lord nor WvW gate/oil/cannon.

No amount of trigger happy aoe group cleansing will save someone from that sort of 2 tick insta down, and even if that character could break the fear and throw up resistance (which they probably couldn’t) its unlikely they’d be able to clear the conditions within a few ticks.

This in an aoe and on a 20s cooldown (without the trait), kids.

~ Kovu

Xenesis.6389:

Also Necromancers need a buff to apply more torment because 2 stacks was really weak.

Scepter #3 causes torment based on the ammount of condition the target have.

It’s condi and it’s Karl. Is there really much else to say?

Bad design runs rampant in the game and we just saw very little about it see substantial change.

Epidemic should get the SoI treatment lol it should transfer only 1 stack of every condition on the target.

But seriously it does need a cap. Either a cap per condi on how many stacks it can trasnfer that is substantially lower than whatever it is right now, or a total cap on how many stacks of condis it can transfer period. Both methods would have their pros and cons, but one of them needs to be implemented.

cough

puts on ANET voice:

“We have evaluated extensively during a period of 3 months and determined that the skill is working as intended. To assist players with a reduced skill capacity to deal with this clearly counterable play, we have added an extra crutch with the changes to light field.

We will continue to monitor how this change reduces the strength of conditions game wide so that adjustments can be made to ensure the continued improvements to condi based play."

/end

I sometimes roam/mess around on condi necro.
Nothing is wrong here, clearly anyone who died should blast more light fields.
No sir, no balance issue here.

Epi needs a nerf. Its that simple. Unblockable, 1200 range, all conditions, 13s cooldown or whatever when traited. Add this to trailblazer’s gear and one person can control a fight versus 20+.

If he was to blast a light field he could clear that weakness tho.

push for anet note this

Chaba.5410:

To add, the fight this was from was not near an objective lord nor WvW gate/oil/cannon.

And wvw doors something you cant even condi…. dose this guy even play wvw / gw2?

Jski.6180:

Chaba.5410:

To add, the fight this was from was not near an objective lord nor WvW gate/oil/cannon.

And wvw doors something you cant even condi…. dose this guy even play wvw / gw2?

Er you do know doors were changed to take condi damage along with siege.

morrolan.9608:

Jski.6180:

Chaba.5410:

To add, the fight this was from was not near an objective lord nor WvW gate/oil/cannon.

And wvw doors something you cant even condi…. dose this guy even play wvw / gw2?

Er you do know doors were changed to take condi damage along with siege.

Nvm tried it out you cant no ideal where your getting your info from moorlan.

Kind of bad when condi can hit that hard and be so easy to spread out like that.
What they realy need to do is make spvp only thing carry over to wvw and leave pve to world maps / pve things.

Imagine if that was 62 Burn stacks instead of Bleed. Would have been insta-dropped. Makes me laugh seeing people drop when they run up to siege, downy or a Lord and gets dropped by an Epi or three. I’m just lucky I rarely get hit by it for some reason. I do keep my eye open for it when I see a Necro with condi food though and I used to play Necro quite a bit so that helps I guess.

99.9% of the time I’m the person in here saying L2p to players complaining and crying nerf(because usually they need to hear it tbh), but I can’t say Epi doesn’t need a rework in some form. I can agree that in the hands of a somewhat good player, the right comp and against the right comp it’s crazy strong. I can point you to a couple havok guilds who have collected a lot of salt and tears based around Epi. But not many smallish groups like them can really put it to great effect in open field. Or do.

There’s been a few good/fair ideas put forth by people here and around the Borderlands. Like for eg. removing Unblockable, or having a cap on the stacks of condis like a revert to 25 stacks or a certain amount of stacks per type on condition(for wvw only). Ect ect. Though only one small change to test would be the right thing to do. All I know is I just don’t want the skill nerfed to the ground. Even though I haven’t been playing Condi Reaper in a long time. Maybe if Anet brought back chill damage. Weren’t they supposed to be working on it and the trait in it’s place is just a placeholder till then? Or did they give up like they did on WvW and PvP?

Another problem with Epi is that it xfers Confusion stacks so any attempt to clear that condi ends up killing a player instead.

Straegen.2938:

Another problem with Epi is that it xfers Confusion stacks so any attempt to clear that condi ends up killing a player instead.

I think transferring confusion is fine, but I also think that we should get a cleanse hiearchy for conditions. They need to be cleansed in a logical order, not FIFO and not randomly.

Just make the effect of Druidic Clarity be shared across your party and there’s the instacounter, drastic times calls for drastic measures.

OriOri.8724:

I think transferring confusion is fine, but I also think that we should get a cleanse hiearchy for conditions. They need to be cleansed in a logical order, not FIFO and not randomly.

The order doesn’t matter. Activating most skills to remove confusion triggers its damage. Just trying to get rid of the conditions kills a player. For example, activating an elite to trigger Lyssa runes will often kill a player.

There are a few passive ways to get rid of it but they are pretty limited.

Jski.6180:

Chaba.5410:

To add, the fight this was from was not near an objective lord nor WvW gate/oil/cannon.

And wvw doors something you cant even condi…. dose this guy even play wvw / gw2?

Even as I cringed reading it, I used “gate” in my response in hopes of not losing the concept from translation.

Dieing to 3x Epidemic at the same time surely makes that skill op … As if coordinated power bombs couldn’t kill anything – oh i forgot, people tend to stack as much dmg reduction as possible to facetank everything. Too bad it doens’t work vs condis. But yes, lets remove every tiny aspect that still requires a little bit of thinking and active play.

Btw with more aoe cleansing people wouldn’t be able stack so many condis on one player, that epi would instakill, so you don’t need insta cleanses to counter it.

Warning: Wall of Text inbound. Read at your own peril.

Kiroshima.8497:

My only problem with epidemic is that it scales way too well compared to power based bombs (multiplicative rather than additive).

Example, you take 1 necro, scepter auto a guy for 1 bleed, then epidemic that bleed to get 5 more. That’s not too bad. Two necros auto a guy resulting in 2 bleeds, epidemic results in 20 new bleeds (2 bleeds * 2 necros * 5 targets). 3, 3, 5 is 45 total bleeds.

I think you get the point, but wow a n^2 * 5 formula for condi output.

I cut some unecessary stuff from my original post but this sums up the issue with epidemic just through design. (no numbers even needed to see this problem)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But hey, we like numbers, right? Let’s crunch some performance numbers for 2 groups of necros, both of which are trying to kill things.

Let’s break things down:
Assumption: Condi and Power should be equal in over all performance.

Group A of necros uses coordinated epidemic bombs.
Group B of necros uses coordinated power wells (there’s only 1 of these by the way).

Group B is obviously full glass, or mostly glass, since power needs to scale with precision and ferocity. That’s a point off, as if they get caught, they die; whereas Group A is probably in full trailblazers, giving them a huge amount of bulk.

Group A can nuke 5 dudes every 20/14 seconds (no trait vs traited)… Casting corrupt boon on one guy into epidemic probably takes about 2 seconds (after cast delays or w/e). You can probably even sneak in a staff mark for a condi bonus.

Group B can nuke 5 dudes every 35/28 seconds (no trait vs traited). This takes about 6 seconds to land all well damage ticks. Now ideally you would add on to this damage with extra attacks, but necro has 0 long range power attacks that are not slow projectiles, and thus are unreliable. Did I mention that enemies have to stand in a small circle to do the damage?

Group A can engage much sooner on any team cc (static field has 1200, same as both corrupt boon and epidemic).

Group B must get a little closer (300 units) and is thus takes free damage on entry. Too bad they’re also extra squishy because they’re using power gear.

Group A gets bonus scaling with any teammates who inflict conditions (say the Condi Guard’s Purging Flames, which by the way was never hit with the fixed target cap that other line abilities were).

Group B does not do bonus damage if they coordinate with teammates. There is no extra reward for doing so.

I think you get the point. Sure, it’s a vacuum comparison sure, but this is 2 groups of the same class trying to do the same thing: kill 5 or more enemies. Epidemic clearly outperforms in concept and numbers.

Karl McLain.5604:

The ability (in its design and in-game-play) does what we would like it to, where if conditions stack up you get to condition-bomb everything.

But if this is intended, you might as well give a power version of epidemic. That way both strategies (condi and power) are equally viable.

I don’t really see problem. You could interrupt epidemic, you could use brains and not stand close potential epi targets, you can ress downed player, you could use resistance like normal players. If i would start to whine every skill that have downed me that fast half of game dmg skills would get nerf.

Junkpile.7439:

I don’t really see problem. You could interrupt epidemic, you could use brains and not stand close potential epi targets, you can ress downed player, you could use resistance like normal players. If i would start to whine every skill that have downed me that fast half of game dmg skills would get nerf.

If you were on the opposite side of this Necro, would you have seen this to be able to tell the following http://imgur.com/c6O86Lj (video source: https://youtu.be/Ag94iCovrww?t=15s) —

How do you propose interrupting epidemic if the animation is on the receiving end?

How do you know what targets the enemy Necros are choosing to cast epidemic on?

Have you tried resurrecting a downed player that necromancers are bouncing epidemics’ off of? I can post .gifs of this too.

Obviously you’re either a massive troll or you’re one of those players who talk the talk but have never walked the walk.

He’s clearly labeled as a troll, doofus.

I am seriously astonished that a dev replied to that. This community is full of nothing but complainers that spam salt threads until they get what they want.

As I’d said in another Epidemic related post, anyone who is having trouble with this skill is either a frontliner without properly co-ordinated group cleanses and/or they’re not using their cleanses properly, or just terrible players not taking the proper measures to deal with it all together.

I’m not special, I’ve been hit by big Epidemic bombs as well. But as far as I can recall, it has only been twice that I’ve insta-downed. I am rarely if ever in a squad, almost never on teamspeak, play vanilla roaming builds on all my characters and I often push to the frontline with builds not designed for it, but I don’t die and don’t get Epi nuked. How is it that I’m not having the same problem so many others apparently have? With as much time as I have invested in WvW, I find it incredibly difficult to believe people aren’t over exaggerating. As far as I’m concerned, this is just one of those things people hate and want gone even though it’s not as much of an issue as they claim it to be.

Yes it’s devastating if it’s coming from a co-ordinated group and yes it can insta-down you if you’re not careful. It’s a powerful skill but the amount of times it kills me/forces me to retreat and recover while zerging is a whole lot less than the times I lose 50 – 80% of my health in one hit from a CoR even on builds with 3k+ armor. And that’s not a complaint about CoR, just a statement that it causes me a lot more problems than Epi’s do.

As I’d said in other Epidemic complaint related threads – I believe it would be fair to adjust this skill but the way people kitten and whine about it and the way ANet always folds to that kind of behavior, I just know it’s going to be gutted and the bunker meta will return in full force.

I very rarely say this but if you’re getting Epi-nuked constantly and you’re not a commander… Get. kittening. Smarter.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I am seriously astonished that a dev replied to that. This community is full of nothing but complainers that spam salt threads until they get what they want.

As I’d said in another Epidemic related post, anyone who is having trouble with this skill is either a frontliner without properly co-ordinated group cleanses and/or they’re not using their cleanses properly, or just terrible players not taking the proper measures to deal with it all together.

I’m not special, I’ve been hit by big Epidemic bombs as well. But as far as I can recall, it has only been twice that I’ve insta-downed. I am rarely if ever in a squad, almost never on teamspeak, play vanilla roaming builds on all my characters and I often push to the frontline with builds not designed for it, but I don’t die and don’t get Epi nuked. How is it that I’m not having the same problem so many others apparently have? With as much time as I have invested in WvW, I find it incredibly difficult to believe people aren’t over exaggerating. As far as I’m concerned, this is just one of those things people hate and want gone even though it’s not as much of an issue as they claim it to be.

Yes it’s devastating if it’s coming from a co-ordinated group and yes it can insta-down you if you’re not careful. It’s a powerful skill but the amount of times it kills me/forces me to retreat and recover while zerging is a whole lot less than the times I lose 50 – 80% of my health in one hit from a CoR even on builds with 3k+ armor. And that’s not a complaint about CoR, just a statement that it causes me a lot more problems than Epi’s do.

As I’d said in other Epidemic complaint related threads – I believe it would be fair to adjust this skill but the way people kitten and whine about it and the way ANet always folds to that kind of behavior, I just know it’s going to be gutted and the bunker meta will return in full force.

I very rarely say this but if you’re getting Epi-nuked constantly and you’re not a commander… Get. kittening. Smarter.

This game caters to the casual player, I get that. ANET needs to have some sort of skill that players can use to one-shot other players to feel relevant enough to keep them interested in playing because they feel they’re contributing.

There are plenty of these skills in the game.

Epidemic is not one of those. This skill should have a few things considered — Cool-down rework, MAX application of condition stacks applied (I.E. 3,5,10 stacks max per cast), and rework to (-)condition duration from skills such as Purging Flames, food, or runes (as already outlined by the DEV response). This skill should be a skill that requires a higher skill level cap.

Haematic.4913:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I am seriously astonished that a dev replied to that. This community is full of nothing but complainers that spam salt threads until they get what they want.

As I’d said in another Epidemic related post, anyone who is having trouble with this skill is either a frontliner without properly co-ordinated group cleanses and/or they’re not using their cleanses properly, or just terrible players not taking the proper measures to deal with it all together.

I’m not special, I’ve been hit by big Epidemic bombs as well. But as far as I can recall, it has only been twice that I’ve insta-downed. I am rarely if ever in a squad, almost never on teamspeak, play vanilla roaming builds on all my characters and I often push to the frontline with builds not designed for it, but I don’t die and don’t get Epi nuked. How is it that I’m not having the same problem so many others apparently have? With as much time as I have invested in WvW, I find it incredibly difficult to believe people aren’t over exaggerating. As far as I’m concerned, this is just one of those things people hate and want gone even though it’s not as much of an issue as they claim it to be.

Yes it’s devastating if it’s coming from a co-ordinated group and yes it can insta-down you if you’re not careful. It’s a powerful skill but the amount of times it kills me/forces me to retreat and recover while zerging is a whole lot less than the times I lose 50 – 80% of my health in one hit from a CoR even on builds with 3k+ armor. And that’s not a complaint about CoR, just a statement that it causes me a lot more problems than Epi’s do.

As I’d said in other Epidemic complaint related threads – I believe it would be fair to adjust this skill but the way people kitten and whine about it and the way ANet always folds to that kind of behavior, I just know it’s going to be gutted and the bunker meta will return in full force.

I very rarely say this but if you’re getting Epi-nuked constantly and you’re not a commander… Get. kittening. Smarter.

This game caters to the casual player, I get that. ANET needs to have some sort of skill that players can use to one-shot other players to feel relevant enough to keep them interested in playing because they feel they’re contributing.

There are plenty of these skills in the game.

Epidemic is not one of those. This skill should have a few things considered — Cool-down rework, MAX application of condition stacks applied (I.E. 3,5,10 stacks max per cast), and rework to (-)condition duration from skills such as Purging Flames, food, or runes (as already outlined by the DEV response). This skill should be a skill that requires a higher skill level cap.

Epi has frigging sec cast time. This game have so much aoe condi removal that landing good epidemic is pure luck and mainly only works because enemy have l2p issues.

OriOri.8724:

Epidemic should get the SoI treatment lol it should transfer only 1 stack of every condition on the target.

But seriously it does need a cap. Either a cap per condi on how many stacks it can trasnfer that is substantially lower than whatever it is right now, or a total cap on how many stacks of condis it can transfer period. Both methods would have their pros and cons, but one of them needs to be implemented.

It is capped at the old condi limit.

Famine.7915:

OriOri.8724:

Epidemic should get the SoI treatment lol it should transfer only 1 stack of every condition on the target.

But seriously it does need a cap. Either a cap per condi on how many stacks it can trasnfer that is substantially lower than whatever it is right now, or a total cap on how many stacks of condis it can transfer period. Both methods would have their pros and cons, but one of them needs to be implemented.

It is capped at the old condi limit.

See attached, obviously the “25” cap isn’t working. If 31 bleed stacks are being applied on one epidemic.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

snip

exactly this.
i regularly try condinec in zergs and regularly end up going power when things go rough.
WHEN we roflstomp them and run quite some condis we can kill them even faster with powerbuilds cuz they suck, simple as that.

so what if the enemy stacks condi? get some revs and push them hard, they dont have a directdmgbomb to prevent it. light field + whirl is ur friend.
they can corruptbomb a few of you to remove boons (resistance) and get very low condistacks. if you fail to keep cleansing the group at an adequate rate they even get 10+ stacks via other attacks.
now luck kicks in when trying to hit epidemic:
– target cleansed just before epi hits?
- random dodge?
- blinded? (epi wont hit, a lava font will still be placed;))
- target goes down just before epi hits?
- target dies just before epi hits?
- obstructed maybe?
- (nonluck: u cant just place it on the ground and keep running, need to be in range)
sooo u managed to epi those stacks. what now?
right! the majority of them still has resistance, u can only strip a few ppl. “team condi” gets heavy dmg now and can be trained.

u can spice up ur comp once u reach blobsize to epi the condis applied by directdmgbuilds, this can have a bigger impact than a 15th powernec.
i played condinec as kind of a delayed/second bomb since many cleanses are bound to heals that get spammed when the primary bomb hits plus i can epi some downs.

there are ways to increase the chance of epi hitting. but dont powercomps also have their own tactis?

hitting epi during purge spike means a huge burst, if their revs are competent they give resistance and have probably already activated dwarf elite while engaging. so u get 1 – 2 ticks in at most.
the burst this way is higher on single targets than the regular wells/staff ele hits.
over time/bomb condi deals a lot less dmg.
a lucky epidemic can help create downs.

@op: u think epi is unfair? then tell me how is this fair? my gunflame can be unblockable too. i need to build glassier than condinec but on the other hand my dmg comes way faster, more reliable, …
(pls note: i did not have high might stacks, target did not have vuln on them, i didnt even have all dmgmodifiers and best food …)

edit: why stack 4-5 condinecs when 2 riflewarrs get the job done too? (less condipressure which btw is applied by powernecs too [condipressure is not just about dmg] in exchange for quite sure spamable kills)

edit2: clarified some things, typos.

Straegen.2938:

OriOri.8724:

I think transferring confusion is fine, but I also think that we should get a cleanse hiearchy for conditions. They need to be cleansed in a logical order, not FIFO and not randomly.

The order doesn’t matter. Activating most skills to remove confusion triggers its damage. Just trying to get rid of the conditions kills a player. For example, activating an elite to trigger Lyssa runes will often kill a player.

There are a few passive ways to get rid of it but they are pretty limited.

A – There needs to be a cleansing hiearchy period, not just for this specific issue.

B – Of course if you trigger an effect to cleanse by using a skill then you will take the condition damage. If you use a skill that cleanses first this wouldn’t be a problem.

Ash.8127:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

snip

exactly this.
i regularly try condinec in zergs and regurlarly end up going power when things go rough.
WHEN we roflstomp them and run quite some condis we can kill them even faster with powerbuilds cuz they suck, simple as that.

so what if the enemy stacks condi? get some revs and push them hard, they dont have a directdmgbomb to prevent it. light field + whirl is ur friend.
they can corruptbomb a few of you to remove boons and get very low condistacks. if you fail to keep cleansing the group at an adequate rate they even get 10+ stacks via other attacks.
now luck kicks in when trying to hit epidemic: target cleansed just before epi hits? random dodge? blinded? (epi wont hit, a lava font will still be placed;)) target goes down just before epi its? target dies just before epi hits? obstructed maybe? (nonluck: u cant just place it on the ground and keep running, need to be in range)
sooo u managed to epi those stacks. what now?
right! the majority of them still has resistance, u can only strip a few ppl. “team condi” gets heavy dmg now and can be trained.

u can spice up ur comp once u reach blobsize to epi the condis applied by directdmgbuilds, this can have a bigger impact than a 15th powernec.
i played condinec as kind of a delayed/second bomb since many cleanses are bound to heals that get spammed when the primary bomb hits plus i can epi some downs.

there are ways to increase the chance of epi hitting. but dont powercomps also have their own tactis?

hitting epi during purge spike means a huge burst, if their revs are competent they give resistance and have probably already activated dwarf elite while engaging. so u get 1 – ticks in at most.
the burst this way is higher on single targets than the regular wells/staff ele hits.
over time/bomb condi deals a lot less dmg.
a lucky epidemic can help create downs.

@op: u think epi is unfair? then tell me how is this fair? my gunflame can be unblockable too. i need to build glassier than condinec but on the other hand my dmg comes way faster, more reliable, …
(pls note: i did not have high might stacks, target did not have vuln on them, i didnt even have all dmgmodifiers and best food …)

edit: why stack 4-5 condinecs when 2 riflewarrs get the job done too? (less condipressure which btw is applied by powernecs too [condipressure is not just about dmg] in exchange for quite sure spamable kills)

edit2: clarified some things.

If you’ve read any of my responses, you would have seen my comment about other “1-shot” skills in this game.

Berserker warrior is a very powerful specialization, but it’s a specialization, not a single skill. There are multiple facets of this build that are required to produce the results you posted. I’d be more than happy to explain, though I feel it’s not worth my time in this post, as the OP is in regards to Epidemic, not gunflame. If you’re using this for the sake of a counter-argument, it’s not on the same level. You require a specialization, a unblockable utility skill, and adrenaline to accomplish what you’ve posted. A power necromancer can equip EPI and deal more damage to a single & 5-target than Gunflame, and they just need to equip that one skill.

Ash.8127:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

snip

exactly this.
i regularly try condinec in zergs and regurlarly end up going power when things go rough.
WHEN we roflstomp them and run quite some condis we can kill them even faster with powerbuilds cuz they suck, simple as that.

so what if the enemy stacks condi? get some revs and push them hard, they dont have a directdmgbomb to prevent it. light field + whirl is ur friend.
they can corruptbomb a few of you to remove boons and get very low condistacks. if you fail to keep cleansing the group at an adequate rate they even get 10+ stacks via other attacks.
now luck kicks in when trying to hit epidemic: target cleansed just before epi hits? random dodge? blinded? (epi wont hit, a lava font will still be placed;)) target goes down just before epi its? target dies just before epi hits? obstructed maybe? (nonluck: u cant just place it on the ground and keep running, need to be in range)
sooo u managed to epi those stacks. what now?
right! the majority of them still has resistance, u can only strip a few ppl, they get heavy dmg now and u can train them.

u can spice up ur comp once u reach blobsize to epi the condis applied by directdmgbuilds, this can have a bigger impact than a 15th powernec.
i played condinec as kind of a delayed/second bomb since many cleanses are bound to heals that get spammed when the primary bomb hits plus i can epi some downs.

there are ways to increase the chance of epi hitting. but dont powercomps also have their own tactis?

hitting epi during purge spike means a huge burst, if their revs are competent they give resistance and have probably already activated dwarf elite while engaging. so u get 1 – ticks in at most.
the burst this way is higher on single targets than the regular wells/staff ele hits.
over time/bomb condi deals a lot less dmg.
a lucky epidemic can help create downs.

@op: u think epi is unfair? then tell me how is this fair? my gunflame can be unblockable too. i need to build glassier than condinec but on the other hand my dmg comes way faster, more reliable, …
(pls note: i did not have high might stacks, target did not have vuln on them, i didnt even have all dmgmodifiers and best food …)

edit: why stack 4-5 condinecs when 2 riflewarrs get the job done too? (less condipressure which btw is applied by powernecs too [condipressure is not just about dmg] in exchange for quite sure spamable kills)

Hey while we’re sharing pictures, let me share a couple.

Now, I understand that Eviscerate is not an AOE skill nor does it increase in strength depending on the number of targets. I understand that it is a different profession and the numbers shown are under different circumstances entirely.

My point only serves to show that while Epidemic can be deadly if used properly, or if the players on the receiving end are lemmings (95% of the time, it’s the latter), power builds/skills are and have been stronger.

Even with Over 3k armor and 20k health, I’m able to hit those kinds of numbers and can even make it unblockable.

I know that my thoughts on the matter are a drop in the pond but I’m very confident that this is a player related issue and not a skill related issue. Epidemic does need to be adjusted but it does not to be nerfed in many of the ways people suggest. People need to practice and to prepare and to stop blaming everything but themselves… If I had the proper editing tools (and I may invest in them in the future) I would happily record vanilla full glass frontline Ranger play to show how often I get hit by Epidemic bombs (hint: it’s never) and how often I die to Spear Of Justice pulls or random 10k+ crits from out of seemingly no where.

Stop standing near downed players, stop using cleanses when you have one stack of Bleed on you, stop being where you’re not supposed to be (as in, if you’re backline, don’t be in the frontline – yes I realize I was just talking about frontlining as a backliner. That’s because I can, not because I should) and if something is giving you trouble, bring the skills to deal with it instead of asking Anet to remove everything that hurts you.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Ash.8127:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

snip

exactly this.
i regularly try condinec in zergs and regurlarly end up going power when things go rough.
WHEN we roflstomp them and run quite some condis we can kill them even faster with powerbuilds cuz they suck, simple as that.

so what if the enemy stacks condi? get some revs and push them hard, they dont have a directdmgbomb to prevent it. light field + whirl is ur friend.
they can corruptbomb a few of you to remove boons and get very low condistacks. if you fail to keep cleansing the group at an adequate rate they even get 10+ stacks via other attacks.
now luck kicks in when trying to hit epidemic: target cleansed just before epi hits? random dodge? blinded? (epi wont hit, a lava font will still be placed;)) target goes down just before epi its? target dies just before epi hits? obstructed maybe? (nonluck: u cant just place it on the ground and keep running, need to be in range)
sooo u managed to epi those stacks. what now?
right! the majority of them still has resistance, u can only strip a few ppl, they get heavy dmg now and u can train them.

u can spice up ur comp once u reach blobsize to epi the condis applied by directdmgbuilds, this can have a bigger impact than a 15th powernec.
i played condinec as kind of a delayed/second bomb since many cleanses are bound to heals that get spammed when the primary bomb hits plus i can epi some downs.

there are ways to increase the chance of epi hitting. but dont powercomps also have their own tactis?

hitting epi during purge spike means a huge burst, if their revs are competent they give resistance and have probably already activated dwarf elite while engaging. so u get 1 – ticks in at most.
the burst this way is higher on single targets than the regular wells/staff ele hits.
over time/bomb condi deals a lot less dmg.
a lucky epidemic can help create downs.

@op: u think epi is unfair? then tell me how is this fair? my gunflame can be unblockable too. i need to build glassier than condinec but on the other hand my dmg comes way faster, more reliable, …
(pls note: i did not have high might stacks, target did not have vuln on them, i didnt even have all dmgmodifiers and best food …)

edit: why stack 4-5 condinecs when 2 riflewarrs get the job done too? (less condipressure which btw is applied by powernecs too [condipressure is not just about dmg] in exchange for quite sure spamable kills)

Hey while we’re sharing pictures, let me share a couple.

Now, I understand that Eviscerate is not an AOE skill nor does it increase in strength depending on the number of targets. I understand that it is a different profession and the numbers shown are under different circumstances entirely.

My point only serves to show that while Epidemic can be deadly if used properly, or if the players on the receiving end are lemmings (95% of the time, it’s the latter), power builds/skills are and have been stronger.

Even with Over 3k armor and 20k health, I’m able to hit those kinds of numbers and can even make it unblockable.

I know that my thoughts on the matter are a drop in the pond but I’m very confident that this is a player related issue and not a skill related issue. Epidemic does need to be adjusted but it does not to be nerfed in many of the ways people suggest. People need to practice and to prepare and to stop blaming everything but themselves… If I had the proper editing tools (and I may invest in them in the future) I would happily record vanilla full glass frontline Ranger play to show how often I get hit by Epidemic bombs (hint: it’s never) and how often I die to Spear Of Justice pulls or random 10k+ crits from out of seemingly no where.

Stop standing near downed players, stop using cleanses when you have one stack of Bleed on you, stop being where you’re not supposed to be (as in, if you’re backline, don’t be in the frontline – yes I realize I was just talking about frontlining as a backliner. That’s because I can, not because I should) and if something is giving you trouble, bring the skills to deal with it instead of asking Anet to remove everything that hurts you.

See my response above in response to berserker warrior, from the other poster.

Also, you’re hitting what looks to be a new player / quite possibly an up level who isn’t geared in EOTM, and you’re posting a screenshot of hitting an EOTM champion. LUL.

Out of respect of your counter arguments, I’ll say thanks for trying, but you’re just making Epidemic look even stronger.

Haematic.4913:

See my response above in response to berserker warrior, from the other poster.

Also, you’re hitting what looks to be a new player / quite possibly an up level who isn’t geared in EOTM, and you’re posting a screenshot of hitting an EOTM champion. LUL.

Out of respect of your counter arguments, I’ll say thanks for trying, but you’re just making Epidemic look even stronger.

I promise you they were not uplevels, though I have no proof of it, I’m not one to lie over such a silly thing.

The hit on the champion is just showing the kind of numbers I can max out on. Epidemic maxes out when used on champions/siege, so it’s perfectly relevant.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Haematic.4913:

See my response above in response to berserker warrior, from the other poster.

Also, you’re hitting what looks to be a new player / quite possibly an up level who isn’t geared in EOTM, and you’re posting a screenshot of hitting an EOTM champion. LUL.

Out of respect of your counter arguments, I’ll say thanks for trying, but you’re just making Epidemic look even stronger.

I promise you they were not uplevels, though I have no proof of it, I’m not one to lie over such a silly thing.

The hit on the champion is just showing the kind of numbers I can max out on. Epidemic maxes out when used on champions/siege, so it’s perfectly relevant.

Perhaps you should record your finding against a comped group, or a typical public group in your matchup, not EOTM, and not on a Champion where your NPC buffs are included in your damage, and quite possibly any WvW orbs you have equipped.

It’s not relevant because you’re not dealing 31k damage on 5-targets who are within range of your Eviscerate, on the Champion Lord.

I think you need your morning coffee.

Reasonable Epidemic adjustments

Reduce radius to 240. The current radius is massive and twice the size of Meteor Shower. A radius reduction would be more than okay.

Reduce range to 900. Although this would be a pretty heavy nerf, especially with the radius reduction as well, it would add a bigger risk/reward factor to the skill. Getting close to targets in zerg fights as a Necromancer isn’t a good idea. Reducing the range could promote more skillful decisions.

Disallow it from working on high health NPC’s and siege. It’s not fair to be bouncing so many conditions off of things that normal players cannot survive. This would be a perfectly acceptable change.

What the community wants

Remove it!
Make it transfer only one condition every few seconds!
Quadruple the cooldown!
Increase the cast time!
Long winded rant about how it’s broken and a half baked idea to completely rework the skill so that it functions completely differently and no one ever uses it again because reasons.

What ANet will do

Half-listen to the community, knee jerk nerf it to the point that it becomes even more niche than what it currently is.

Community cries that bunker meta is too stong.

If we started a BROKEN BUILDS/SKILLS/TRAITS IN WVW thread, would it be passed on to the balance team?

Haematic: Since you’re part of the WvW player initiative, has the group communicated issues like this to Anet?

Swamurabi.7890:

If we started a BROKEN BUILDS/SKILLS/TRAITS IN WVW thread, would it be passed on to the balance team?

Haematic: Since you’re part of the WvW player initiative, has the group communicated issues like this to Anet?

According to ANET, they review all concerns in this forum brought up by the community, so in one way shape or form I’m sure Broken Builds/Skills/Traits are being passed to the balance team, though not every item will be addressed.

I’ve brought this to the attention of the WvW initiative, yes.

OriOri.8724:

B – Of course if you trigger an effect to cleanse by using a skill then you will take the condition damage. If you use a skill that cleanses first this wouldn’t be a problem.

Cleanses still trigger confusion damage. Which is kinda illogical.

Jeknar.6184:

OriOri.8724:

B – Of course if you trigger an effect to cleanse by using a skill then you will take the condition damage. If you use a skill that cleanses first this wouldn’t be a problem.

Cleanses still trigger confusion damage. Which is kinda illogical.

Because is how the condition was designed. You received the contidion first so it must trigger. A lot of skills that clean do damage too, why? For the same reason, other thing is if you don’t like it and would like to change how it works.

While I find myself a bit baffled over the remark about the devs looking at conditions stacking on “wvw doors”, I will hope that they actually look at the problem in game now. Because if you play the game in zergs, then they would know that there isn’t much a zerg can do to “counterplay” epidemic other than avoiding things the enemy is able to stack conditions on. You can’t react because you are down in 2 ticks in many cases.

After seeing it and playing it myself for a long time, I think it should be adapted. Similarly to what the mesmer boonshare meta did before the change, this skill pretty much breaks the zergfights.
- 13 seconds cooldown when traited is absolutely crazy, it means 5 target 25 bleeds, poisons, burns, etc. every 13 seconds. Would you not nerf this if it was a skill on a weapon that would directly apply that? I don’t think there is a question here really.
- I think it would be best to limit maximum number of conditionstacks per condition. One should keep the necromancer in mind with this though and the condition-types he does (so maybe allow 20 bleeds, 10 poisons, 3 torments, 3 burns and 3 confusions?). It would still be potent.
- Make epidemic on siege only transfer conditions to other siege and epidemic on a castle lord npc only work on other npcs. This way raids would not be broken too much. The problem here is that it is very easy for a zerg to stack a high number of conditions on siege or lords and it is extremely easy to drop whole zergs with epi if they run there.
- Not sure about downed players. It also seems too easy to stack conditions on downed players with high vitality and kill people that try to revive with epidemic. I think it may be okay if downed players can be cleared of conditions by the zerg. Not sure that is possible atm (I was told conditions on downed players cannot be cleared, but have never tested it myself).

Please be careful not to break conditions in general by implementing massive condition clear “because” of the epidemic skill. It sounds in the dev-message like this was implemented to counteract epidemic and if it was, then a) it misses the target because epi is too fast to counteract and b) hurts other condition builds that may not have been broken.