Guild Wars 2

I realy don’t understand what is it with all the hate and people just ingeneral against the option to disable the buff. People should know by now that there are 2 communities playing WvW. There’s the dedicated Guilds/roamers and the PPT/siege community. Now personaly I’m a GvG/roamer myself but I do understand the need for PPT/Siege and I got nothing against the recent updates like WvW masteries.

People need to understand that the Guilds want to have fun in their own way aswell. If you enjoy sieging and blobing and lagging the whole server up that’s fine, but I should be able to Roam and do GvGs aswell. Now I’m not asking for some major uber update or a separate Mod just for us, it’s just a simple disable option on the buff IF you want to.

Anet needs to realise that they don’t have only the Siege crew to take care of but also the dedicated Guilds. We aren’t asking for much, we never have. Just let us do what we did until now in peace. Is it realy so hard to even consider such a little option for us?

Coldpain.9238:

I realy don’t understand what is it with all the hate and people just ingeneral against the option to disable the buff. People should know by now that there are 2 communities playing WvW. There’s the dedicated Guilds/roamers and the PPT/siege community. Now personaly I’m a GvG/roamer myself but I do understand the need for PPT/Siege and I got nothing against the recent updates like WvW masteries.

People need to understand that the Guilds want to have fun in their own way aswell. If you enjoy sieging and blobing and lagging the whole server up that’s fine, but I should be able to Roam and do GvGs aswell. Now I’m not asking for some major uber update or a separate Mod just for us, it’s just a simple disable option on the buff IF you want to.

Anet needs to realise that they don’t have only the Siege crew to take care of but also the dedicated Guilds. We aren’t asking for much, we never have. Just let us do what we did until now in peace. Is it realy so hard to even consider such a little option for us?

Youre gonna have to talk louder. Mr. Carver cannot hear you with his head burried so deep in his own rear end.

Dr Acula.3496:

Troop.1369:

I wish they won’t allow anyone to turn the buff on and off. This is World vs World. 1v1 is SPvP.

GvG is.. well… not an option supported by Arena.Net yet… maybe in another game you will find what you are looking for.

Im sorry man, but if I chose to disable my orb buff thats my choice and it doesnt effect you or WvW in the least. Therefore your argument has no merit and is best kept to yourself.

Seems you’re just totally wrong …

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

The elitism being shown on here by some of the ppt-kittens is quite disgusting, yet they call out the GvG- community for being toxic, oh the irony.

Unless I’ll start earning a salary from playing this game I’m going to continue playing WvW the way I define as fun, and that definition doesn’t involve the ppt-game you lot seem to be worshiping.

By all means, if you enjoy playing that way be my guest, but telling others how they are mean’t to be playing, and basically belittling them for not playing this game the way you want them to, is pretty kittening pathetic.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Is it though? If you hold the buffs, you are winning anyway. Seems rather pointless buff to me.
I’m looking forwards to the update though, I’m sure I will have fun fighting in the new areas of the borderlands maps. However, I still think this buff isn’t necessarily a good idea at all. It doesn’t as itself, add any game play value (just a passive boost) and it most likely only really benefits the servers that have great coverage. For example, in our current match up, there are times when we are really kittened up at all borderlands, but can still hold fairly well in EB. Now with the buff, these servers that are already outnumbering us will have an edge even at EB.
Really, why dont you just make it so that the server with most people in WvW at a time automatically gets a buff?

Outnumbering! Your fast numbers over the enemy inspire you. Have fun pillaging! +100% magic find, +20% wexp, +50 to all stats.

Now that we are at it, why don’t we also change outnumbered to

Outnumbered! Your army is greatly outnumbered, demoralising you. Be careful out there. -50 to all stats, 5% chance to be feared when struck.

kingcragus.6810:

It’s funny how mad people are about this…don’t like the buff? Think it’s unfair then go to sPvP where the game is apparently more balanced OR transfer to a server the will likely never have the buff.

I for one enjoy solo roaming and am constantly fighting 1v1 1v2 1v3 so I will take any advantage I can get.

yea and then the enemy has all 3 buffs because of coverage and suddenly you face 1vs3 but the enemy has not just number advantage but stat advantage too.

Also when i 1on1 a good roamer i dont want any advantage over him, i want a fair fight. The stat buff kittens that up.

They should just get rid of the stats buff and buff smth else.

Dr Acula.3496:

Kraggy.4169:

Dr Acula.3496:

Troop.1369:

I wish they won’t allow anyone to turn the buff on and off. This is World vs World. 1v1 is SPvP.

GvG is.. well… not an option supported by Arena.Net yet… maybe in another game you will find what you are looking for.

Im sorry man, but if I chose to disable my orb buff thats my choice and it doesnt effect you or WvW in the least. Therefore your argument has no merit and is best kept to yourself.

Seems you’re just totally wrong …

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

How so? Because this Dev that is clearly out of touch with the player base of this game made some weak argument against being able to turn the buff on or off? Quit being a kittening sheep.

the Irony of this post is amazing and painful

Are people incapable of waiting for something to be added to the game before judging it and making suggestions for improvement before they have even played and tested it.

No, they are just capable of judging it before hand. Too bad Anet is not.

I’m getting the feeling I’ve seen it all before. Developers completely ignoring the community feedback and going on with their own thing. It was right here, in GW2, right around the time sPvP lobby went from having dozens of overflows to being nearly empty. I’ll use it as an example here, since I’ve been there and I’ve experienced it all.

PvP team due to stubborness, ignoring feedback and being seriously understaffed lost hundreds of players. Personally I knew over 20 high level teams which quit the game for good, including my own. Since then they have learned they lesson and realized they NEED to listen to and act on player feedback. Number of players in sPvP is slowly going up, but I doubt it’s anywhere close to the state before the exodus yet.

- Players said the paid tournaments were bad idea from the start. In spite of the feedback they were added, only to be removed later on.
- Players said that mixing solo and team queue was terrible idea from the moment it was announced. In spite of the feedback it was done, only to have solo queue added later anyway.
- Players said since day one that having only one mode for sPvP was bad, and were completely ignored, with excuse of ‘we want a single, good game mode’. (This is a case for a whole another text wall). Now, after a year we hear new modes are actually being tested internally.

I’m just wondering… Wouldn’t it be easier to just once actually listen to your community’s feedback BEFORE you waste your valuable time and resources on something that was NEVER asked for, and actively opposed by the players?

And yes, I say ‘community’ because it’s not just couple guys hanging around the windmill that are opposing this. Take a look at http://gw2gvg.com/leaderboard.php?r=eu . Guilds registered there from Desolation alone are: [TLA], [TEQ], [FG], [INVI], [EXG], [CTRL], [Unit], [Coin]. That’s over half of our main WvW guilds, and I’m pretty sure it’s similar on other servers. That’s the amount of players you’re choosing to ignore, refusing to listen to. You can’t say we’re not contributing for our server. We spend 2-3 hours a week on GvG. The rest of our playtime is spent in the field, working our kitten off to help the server. It’s those GvG guilds which are called for help in difficult situations, to fight against the odds and stand victorious.

Aside from a few forum warriors here and there, I know for a fact most of WvW community actually respects GvG guilds, to the point when couple guilds from opposing servers can stand guard around GvG area to prevent interruptions – last Deso/SFR/Vizu matchup for example.

If you don’t want to / are not capable of giving us an option to disable the buff on ourselves, can you at least make it into something that’s not +150 to all stats? I’m sure there are countless possibilities you could think of which would provide servers with advantage, but not ruin the combat, the best part of GW2.

Faster upgrades, faster dolyaks, stronger guard npcs, increased supply capacity, reduced siege supply cost, boosts to karma/exp/wxp/mf, no armor damage, just to name a few. I’ld prefer any of those over flat +150 stats buff. Possibilites are endless.

Hell, we’re not asking for you to scrap the new mechanics. We’re not asking for you to completely alter your vision of WvW. All we ask for is to let us have those 2-3 hours a week when we can do what we enjoy the most in your beautiful game. Please, don’t ruin it for us.

I think some of the reason that they can’t back down on this update is because they’ve announced it to the whole player community. What sense does it make to back down from a decision when only a few hundred, show opposition to their announcement, and how does it look when they go back on an update because less then 0.001% of the community said they don’t want this change?
If those opposed want to stop this change, they need to show a significant portion of the community is opposed to the changes.

Otherwise it’ll play out like this. Devs make the change, the majority either likes or hates the change and the Devs either leave the change or fix/remove the change in a later update.

Tellerion.8102:

Nikkinella.8254:

I still think the orb buff is a bad idea in general. Outmanned should have the stat buff and the orb should be a useless MF buff.

This.

Seconded, but they`re obviously catering to the zergs/most populated servers, which`ll lead to less playing on the under-populated servers when the crappy match ups don`t favour that server.

Erastmus.3785:

Why is it that every time someone comes up with ideas that sounds really good for the game here on the forums then Anet will have to “discuss” it through, then one never hear about the idea again. But when game altering changes like what’s happening now, and in rapid succession, is never discussed WITH the playerbase but instead forced upon them.

Somebody who lives near ANet headquarters should take that paragraph and plaster it on a huge billboard across the street from them. I’ll contribute to the cost.

We’d have a considerably better game if ANet used those scare resources to work on the things we’ve asked for instead of the things we’ve never mentioned and don’t even want.

You know if you guys care about this so strongly, you should organize all the gvg guilds and guilds support you to do a protest like eve players did. Once the protest got to the press, I’m sure anet high levels will pay attention.

A few hundred?? I have 60 members in my guild, each are against stupid stat bonus for the coverage servers. I know of atleast a dozen EU guilds with rosters similar in size to mine. Just from who I know personally that’s several hundred for you, and that’s know well – not even talking of even 25% of the GvG EU community there either.

The problem lies with the fact that ANET in their fluke made a fcuking awesome roaming open field battles/skirmishes game. They don’t even realise it. The combat system they have is fluid and quite frankly very very good (when servers don’t lag). Yet they have this “VISION” for WvW…. which encourages, no promotes, zerging and karma training and FIGHT AVOIDANCE. WTF, WvW = Realm vs Realm = Player vs Player. Yet they promote WXP and run away fight an empty keep, map hop lads there is no defenders on other maps. WTF.

I see it every matchup guilds, zergs, die once or twice and leave map away from us. To go get their loot and precious PPT on another map.

Fighting should be encouraged and rewarded. For us fighting guilds, the reward is in the fun and thrill of the fight, we don’t need incentives. We need the easymoders to grow a set and not been enthralled by PPT – ALL HAIL PPT. YAWN

It should be an obvious solution. Since you’ve all made it abundantly clear that GvGers form the vast majority of the WvW population -rolls eyes--, just make sure each of the servers has 1 borderland’s buff at a time. It shouldn’t be difficult to coordinate that amongst yourselves since so many more people GvG than don’t.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

It should be an obvious solution. Since you’ve all made it abundantly clear that GvGers form the vast majority of the WvW population -rolls eyes--, just make sure each of the servers has 1 borderland’s buff at a time. It shouldn’t be difficult to coordinate that amongst yourselves since so many more people GvG than don’t.

Requoting myself:

I think some ppl is missing the point of this complain/request.

Bloodlust as it is, with the old orbs buff, is not bad for GvG, roaming or fair fights only.

It’s bad for WvW as whole.
We had already Orbs back 1 year ago so it isn’t even speculation, we experienced it already: it just increase the strenght of the already winning server, leads to snowballing, and increases the gap in blowouts due to sheer coverage.

That’s why it should be changed.

Ignore GvG. Ignore Roaming. Ignore fair fights between zergs.

Look at Bloodlust again.

Still wrong, stupid and uncalled.

WvW is nowhere near competitive to begin with. It’s the accessible and easy PvPvE mode for people who take PvP more casually.

Most of the people you’re killing are probably not 80, not in Ascended, and running a PvE build to begin with. It’s not like more stats is tipping the scales.

If that is the case, give me 1500 hp, 150 toughness, 150 power, healing power, condition damage and around 7% crit chance (precision). It’s not as little as you think.

Dranul.2094:

If that is the case, give me 1500 hp, 150 toughness, 150 power, healing power, condition damage and around 7% crit chance (precision). It’s not as little as you think.

I’ll take this time ten.

Let’s not forget that the reason they took out the orb buff is because they were unable to deal with the blatant hacking, not because they thought it was unbalanced or made the mode less competitive.

At least make the buff stats identical to “an ingame consumable” such a food or oil..so we can make it fair manually. The side without buff eats that food and do GvG.

Nilgoow.1037:

Let’s not forget that the reason they took out the orb buff is because they were unable to deal with the blatant hacking, not because they thought it was unbalanced or made the mode less competitive.

Tbh i hoped that was an excuse.

Because we spent like the first 3 months in WvW asking to change/remove the orbs buff, which were only causing harder blowouts and snowballing already.

Iirc, the first “Swap orb buff with outmanned buff” suggestions popped already in betas.

20 months later or so, Anet is pushing foward with Bloodlust…

Master of Timespace.2548:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

Now that we are at it, why don’t we also change outnumbered to

Outnumbered! Your army is greatly outnumbered, demoralising you. Be careful out there. -50 to all stats, 5% chance to be feared when struck.

Add a “Go to PvE farm living world events until the next week” hint.

rhodoc.2381:

At least make the buff stats identical to “an ingame consumable” such a food or oil..so we can make it fair manually. The side without buff eats that food and do GvG.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Revelry_Starcake is pretty kitten close.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

rhodoc.2381:

At least make the buff stats identical to “an ingame consumable” such a food or oil..so we can make it fair manually. The side without buff eats that food and do GvG.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Revelry_Starcake is pretty kitten close.

It’s also expensive as hell.

I dont understand what the big deal is about the buff is.
FYI, i solo roam, im in a 13men havoc guild, and i have also done organized combat aka gvg so i know all perspective.

first of all the buff isnt even that hard to neutralized. they are in plain open field. go out there and kill ppl and decap it….
“oh no we cant do that cuze they are op with their 150 all stat buff” quit your whining. its better to have them out there than inside a kitten tower with ac shooting at you… and many of you claim to eat zergs for breakfast? than an extra challenge should be no problem for you.

also they have to cap all 3 nodes on all 3 maps for 150 buff. if not its only 50.

“oh no our organized combat is ruined the other side has more stat than i do!?!”
– i have seen the amount of spectators during those fights and they can easily go out and neutralize all points and offer a fair environment to both side instead of watching.
and w/e if you cant watch the fights live, ogre does a great job commenting and editing the vids and he makes it much more exciting than watching from the sidelines.

with the exception of the random cannons, i think this bloodlust in the bl is a neat feature and will offer more fights instead of ppl hiding in towers or zergs

AndrewSX.3794:

Bloodlust: gain utility buffs depending on how many points you hold, magnitude of buffs (10/20/30%) depends on the points held on different BL’s.

No one would care about the buff, completely defeating the point of it.

Who, in WvW of any of the guilds who give a crap about PvP, would care about this buff in the way you’ve constructed it? Obviously no one (which is why you constructed it as you did).
What zerg, in WvW, will care about it if all it gives are irrelevant boosts to irrelevant things like Magic Find or Experience or Karma? Obviously no one, and so the zerg will just keep on zerging. They won’t even care about the stomp bonus because ZvZ rarely resolves to any sort of stomping.

The whole point of this buff, unlike the old orbs, is to force you to spread and manage more of a map, and in ways that cannot simply be “zerged” down in a clockwise or counterclockwise circle because there are no walls and the nodes decap on their own. If the orb buff amounted to nothing, no one would give a kitten about it.

This is an update for small scale (the ones who actually stomp), to give them a standing purpose aside from running around zerg island and having little bouts of irrelevance. If you think some enemy zerg is going to run circles around a map chasing down a small scale group at some nodes, then, if they really have that luxury, the fight was already so lopsided that no amount of arbitrary stat bonuses were going to help.

DAoC managed just fine with an even more powerful buff, and they had their 8v8 GvGs for ages.

Vena.8436:

AndrewSX.3794:

Bloodlust: gain utility buffs depending on how many points you hold, magnitude of buffs (10/20/30%) depends on the points held on different BL’s.

No one would care about the buff, completely defeating the point of it.

Who, in WvW of any of the guilds who give a crap about PvP, would care about this buff in the way you’ve constructed it? Obviously no one (which is why you constructed it as you did).
What zerg, in WvW, will care about it if all it gives are irrelevant boosts to irrelevant things like Magic Find or Experience or Karma? Obviously no one, and so the zerg will just keep on zerging. They won’t even care about the stomp bonus because ZvZ rarely resolves to any sort of stomping.

The whole point of this buff, unlike the old orbs, is to force you to spread and manage more of a map, and in ways that cannot simply be “zerged” down in a clockwise or counterclockwise circle because there are no walls and the nodes decap on their own. If the orb buff amounted to nothing, no one would give a kitten about it.

This is an update for small scale (the ones who actually stomp), to give them a standing purpose aside from running around zerg island and having little bouts of irrelevance. If you think some enemy zerg is going to run circles around a map chasing down a small scale group at some nodes, then, if they really have that luxury, the fight was already so lopsided that no amount of arbitrary stat bonuses were going to help.

DAoC managed just fine with an even more powerful buff, and they had their 8v8 GvGs for ages.

If you believe having points at the centre of the map, rather close to one another, in the middle of all 3 keeps will mean that the zerg will split up then I am afraid you are in for a rude awakening.

Aneu.1748:

If you believe having points at the centre of the map, rather close to one another, in the middle of all 3 keeps will mean that the zerg will split up then I am afraid you are in for a rude awakening.

Considering that, unlike said keeps with their said champion defenders, these nodes don’t remain capped of their own volition. They need to be baby-sat by at least a few people if you have any intention of holding them for prolonged periods.

These people, along with scouts, have to come from somewhere… and with a fixed map cap, its not hard to see where they’ll come from. In particular when you start actually giving small groups something to play over, they might actually start to play over it.

Otherwise, your zerg will have to detour every few minutes to secure its nodes.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

One of the worst responses I have ever seen from a dev in any MMO. Good stuff.

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

What is the point? Can you please tell us the thinking behind this at least?

How can you think that this will do anything but make the stronger more populated server even stronger?

The server with the biggest zerg also has the most people to sit in the middle. Don’t assume that just because a server has a large zerg they don’t also have people willing to run around and kill people.

Well then, I think GvG will definitely be done for. The only viable way to keep things balanced is to have 9/15 points contested over 3 maps, more trouble than I think its worth.

WvW as we know it will be ruined as well, there will simply be no reason at all to fight openfield against groups that have the orb advantages. So more running into towers, more lopsided matchups, more siege wars.

Johje Holan.4607:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

What is the point? Can you please tell us the thinking behind this at least?

How can you think that this will do anything but make the stronger more populated server even stronger?

This^

I’ve been saying this from the start, it only enhances the coverage war and while you claim it’s for smaller battles theres nothing stopping the zerg from going there to deal with a take over. You even give them 2mins to get there.

If you want it to be more about smaller battles you should instead change the stat buff aspect of it to to a WvW exp buff while keeping spiking downed players for points. Other wise zergs aren’t going to let the other sides have the extra stats and will instead fight there.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Really, why dont you just make it so that the server with most people in WvW at a time automatically gets a buff?

Outnumbering! Your fast numbers over the enemy inspire you. Have fun pillaging! +100% magic find, +20% wexp, +50 to all stats.

Now that we are at it, why don’t we also change outnumbered to

Outnumbered! Your army is greatly outnumbered, demoralising you. Be careful out there. -50 to all stats, 5% chance to be feared when struck.

This change would be perfectly in line with ANet’s apparent vision for WvW.

It’s a win/win/win situation. Bigger servers get more transfers (money) and more incentives to “win” and more rewards to make them feel good about their server-stacking skills (I mean, pvp skills, yeah….). Smaller servers get crapped on, but hey, that’s more incentive to transfer (money). Bigger servers deserve to win anyway, because they have more players (customers) for the company to keep happy.

Money, money, happy customers, revenue, win, win, win……. If you’re losing, either suck it up and “enjoy” being farmed or transfer to ride that win wagon.

Also, if anyone has a good suggestion and posts it on the forum it’s marked to never be implemented.

Johje Holan.4607:

DevonCarver.5370:

No. That is not a possibility at this time. The point of the buff is to affect the WvW game mode as a whole disabling it on your character would lessen the value of the buff to a server and completely invalidate the whole point.

What is the point? Can you please tell us the thinking behind this at least?

How can you think that this will do anything but make the stronger more populated server even stronger?

That is exactly the purpose. The more populated server has more players (paying customers) to keep happy. They are obviously the type who enjoy winning by unfair advantage already (for the most part anyway).

Thrashbarg.9820:

stuff

Few problems with this. One, the best players aren’t on T1. Matter of fact they avoid T1.

PPT is only really effected by coverage. Some servers might have just as many players as other servers with coverage, but they just have more people on at prime time.

If everyone goes to T1 servers, the queues there would be even more ridiculous as well as the skill lag

Lastly, it’s possible that some servers have more people than TC, JQ, SoR and BG, but they just don’t WvW for whatever reason. I’d guess lack of commanders etc.

In my opinion the devs should look at it the other way around and try to spread out the population, not give reason to stack servers even more. This would also help the skill lag everyone hates

Istaf.1953:

Thrashbarg.9820:

stuff

Few problems with this. One, the best players aren’t on T1. Matter of fact they avoid T1.

PPT is only really effected by coverage. Some servers might have just as many players as other servers with coverage, but they just have more people on at prime time.

If everyone goes to T1 servers, the queues there would be even more ridiculous as well as the skill lag

Lastly, it’s possible that some servers have more people than TC, JQ, SoR and BG, but they just don’t WvW for whatever reason. I’d guess lack of commanders etc.

In my opinion the devs should look at it the other way around and try to spread out the population, not give reason to stack servers even more. This would also help the skill lag everyone hates

I agree. Perhaps you missed the sarcasm in my post.

When I was referring to population, I meant (rather obviously, I thought) active WvW population. Active WvW population has many factors and isn’t necessarily a measure of total server population, but server rank is a direct result of active WvW player numbers.

From ANet’s business perspective, the tier 1 servers are the “best”. There was a post from Mr. Carver a while back equating server rank to skill directly. This isn’t my view, or even most WvW’ers that I know, it’s the view held by the company making the game.

As for skill lag, it may actually decrease if more players transfer to “winning” servers. With the new league rotation coming, it will be very rare for the top ranked 3-4 servers to fight only each other, making blowouts even more common and with larger point gaps. If one server has 80 people on every map and the other two can only wrangle up a few masochistic/suicidal players to get farmed by the map zergs, there won’t be much lag. Perhaps this actually is their fix for skill lag, eliminate the big 3 way fights which cause it by encouraging players to all stack on a few servers which will rarely meet in combat.

Blix.8021:

Malediktus.9250:

MartyPartys.9187:

Malediktus.9250:

No, please dont. GvG is ruining WvW.

This is not about GvG only, it’s for everyone that prefers fair combat, think of all the solo roamers.

/signed and +1

Roamers benefit from the buff, fair fights are not intended in WvW.

It’s substantially less satisfying to beat someone when you have an advantage that they can’t get.

Roaming in WvW is and will never be “fair”. And don’t pretend that this playstyle focuses on fair and even combats. Most of the time it’s the opposite … attack from behind, when low on health, jump solo roamers with a small group, camp a spawn point or something like that. And that’s how it’s supposed to be. sPvP is for “fair” competition.

AndrewSX.3794:

I think some ppl is missing the point of this complain/request.

Bloodlust as it is, with the old orbs buff, is not bad for GvG, roaming or fair fights only.

It’s bad for WvW as whole.
We had already Orbs back 1 year ago so it isn’t even speculation, we experienced it already: it just increase the strenght of the already winning server, leads to snowballing, and increases the gap in blowouts due to sheer coverage.

That’s why it should be changed.
Before any Gvg/roaming/fair fights complain.

This argument makes it incredibly easy to dismiss your complaint. This isn’t the orb mechanic from launch, the buff is similair but the method of attaining and holding it isn’t. It’s much harder to acquire and hold this buff compared to the orb. You can’t zerg this buff, you have to win in at least three places at the same time to acquire it. You also have to prevent the enemy from being in three places at the same time to keep it. If any enemy server has five small teams at each point and you only defend three, they are getting two easy points and can hit the third hard (or act and react on the other three to pull defenders off or overwhelm them). All of this will involve open field combat (with large consideration for terrain) and puts a great deal of value on the side that can mobilise their forces strategically and quickly. This is dramatically different from an orb which can be acquired by a zerg and hidden behind a heavily fortified tower that favours the defender and allows the zerg to protect it. That’s a massive difference in these two mechanics and anyone who bases the premise of their criticism on “we had this orb mechanic before” is being outright ignorant.

AndrewSX.3794:

If WvW scoring/winning was an actual test of PvP tactical and fighting skill, then there wouldn’t be even GvG as whole.
But WvW, as designed by Anet, is a coverage siege and blobbing war, where pvp can be nearly completely avoided, pvp skill is irrilevant and tactic is dumbed down to “where i’ll take the zoneblob next”.
That is how WvW is designed? Fine, but it’s boring, siege and numbers are too much more important than pvp skill and as whole the mode is being ignored for too much time.

That’s why ppl started to do not care anymore of score, PPT, siege and objectives and focusing on fights, more balanced the better. That’s why GvG and roaming are so popular. That’s why having those getting gutted by Bloodlust is another blow to WvW – which as whole will suffer this newly introduced unbalance.

If you want balanced PvP that prioritises skill go to sPvP. You can have up to 8 (or is it 10?) people on a map. Buy a custom arena and have your zerg clashes there or choose an empty arena and play in that one. Even sPvP has siege, that doesn’t remove the need for skill.

So many of you talk about how normal WvW play is reduced to zerg blobs running around snoozing through content, for crying out loud most of you are on different servers from each other. How is it you’re all experience the same lack of challenge when zerging? Are you deliberately avoiding other guilds or are you conveniently claiming that the times you lose are because of numbers?

Every time the “GvG” crowd show up the discourse often degenerates into people stubbornly sticking their fingers in their ears and criticising other parts of WvW simply because they want something else. The arguments follow along the lines of “this isn’t GvG, it must be kitten and I’m going to say so”. It’s fine to say that the orb buff harms players who choose to play outside of the intended goals of the arena, that is correct. Groups of players who take up map slots so they can zerg into each other with an attempt to minimise imbalances within the zerg, they will sometimes have the orb buff interfering with that. Those players aren’t using the WvW maps for what they are designed for.

Just because it’s not good for organised large scale scrimmages does not mean it’s bad for WvW. It’s very possible that the bloodlust buff and ruins capping and defending will be very good for WvW. Remember, according to you (and a lot of the people complaining about the buff) WvW gameplay currently amounts to "a coverage siege and blobbing war, where pvp can be nearly completely avoided, pvp skill is irrilevant and tactic is dumbed down to “where i’ll take the zoneblob next”.". It looks to me like the bar is set pretty low, if Bloodlust in the Borderlands creates more compelling gameplay than that quote, I expect you’ll come back after it’s introduced and talk about how good it was for the format. It makes complete sense that the devs wouldn’t design against the interests of WvW by allowing people to dismiss the buff. They are trying to make WvW better, not foster uses of the WvW maps which work against the central goals of WvW.

Shiren.9532:

This argument makes it incredibly easy to dismiss your complaint. This isn’t the orb mechanic from launch, the buff is similair but the method of attaining and holding it isn’t. It’s much harder to acquire and hold this buff compared to the orb. You can’t zerg this buff, you have to win in at least three places at the same time to acquire it. You also have to prevent the enemy from being in three places at the same time to keep it. If any enemy server has five small teams at each point and you only defend three, they are getting two easy points and can hit the third hard (or act and react on the other three to pull defenders off or overwhelm them). All of this will involve open field combat (with large consideration for terrain) and puts a great deal of value on the side that can mobilise their forces strategically and quickly. This is dramatically different from an orb which can be acquired by a zerg and hidden behind a heavily fortified tower that favours the defender and allows the zerg to protect it. That’s a massive difference in these two mechanics and anyone who bases the premise of their criticism on “we had this orb mechanic before” is being outright ignorant.

Okay I’m sorry but I gotta address this.

People keep saying that this is fair because smaller servers can split up and contest multiple points at once which should beat the giant zerg blob larger servers have. This helps balance it against the lower coverage servers who aren’t as big.

I gotta ask: What is stopping the larger servers from splitting their big kitten zerg and kicking our teeth in at multiple points as well? Like seriously. Say it’s 30 SoS vs 60 SoR. SoS splits into 5 groups of 6 and contests all our points in our BL. What’s stopping SoR from splitting into 5 groups of 12 and wrecking us?

Shiren.9532:

They are trying to make WvW better, not foster uses of the WvW maps which work against the central goals of WvW.

If so many people are using the WvW maps to do things other than what the developers intend WvW to be, are they really pushing it in the right direction? If the goal of WvW is PPT, they’ve missed the greatest part of WvW, the open field battles.

new buffs gives points for spikes.

GvG is all about spiking the other team down.

Result: Score padding to the detriment of the third server who is not GvGing.

Aleaf.8174:

Shiren.9532:

This argument makes it incredibly easy to dismiss your complaint. This isn’t the orb mechanic from launch, the buff is similair but the method of attaining and holding it isn’t. It’s much harder to acquire and hold this buff compared to the orb. You can’t zerg this buff, you have to win in at least three places at the same time to acquire it. You also have to prevent the enemy from being in three places at the same time to keep it. If any enemy server has five small teams at each point and you only defend three, they are getting two easy points and can hit the third hard (or act and react on the other three to pull defenders off or overwhelm them). All of this will involve open field combat (with large consideration for terrain) and puts a great deal of value on the side that can mobilise their forces strategically and quickly. This is dramatically different from an orb which can be acquired by a zerg and hidden behind a heavily fortified tower that favours the defender and allows the zerg to protect it. That’s a massive difference in these two mechanics and anyone who bases the premise of their criticism on “we had this orb mechanic before” is being outright ignorant.

Okay I’m sorry but I gotta address this.

People keep saying that this is fair because smaller servers can split up and contest multiple points at once which should beat the giant zerg blob larger servers have. This helps balance it against the lower coverage servers who aren’t as big.

I gotta ask: What is stopping the larger servers from splitting their big kitten zerg and kicking our teeth in at multiple points as well? Like seriously. Say it’s 30 SoS vs 60 SoR. SoS splits into 5 groups of 6 and contests all our points in our BL. What’s stopping SoR from splitting into 5 groups of 12 and wrecking us?

Nothing. I’m not claiming the mechanic will allow SoS to beat SoR or that it will eliminate the numbers advantage (it may lessen it – personal skill level matters more the smaller the fight is, so a 6 vs 12 is easier to win than a 30 vs 70). SoS is going to lose to SoR even after this mechanic is introduced (assuming the populations don’t change). What it will do is create open field fights. SoR is an extreme example for SoS because despite this week’s match up, the two shouldn’t be playing against each other. At the very least, this new mechanic will split the zerg up to acquire and hold it. That’s better than zerging being the easiest strategy for everything.

Istaf.1953:

Shiren.9532:

They are trying to make WvW better, not foster uses of the WvW maps which work against the central goals of WvW.

If so many people are using the WvW maps to do things other than what the developers intend WvW to be, are they really pushing it in the right direction? If the goal of WvW is PPT, they’ve missed the greatest part of WvW, the open field battles.

I don’t believe that many people are using the WvW maps to do things other than the intended uses, I believe the majority of people play WvW as intended. I believe the people who don’t are in the minority, and of those who do participate in this kind of thing, for most of them it’s a small fraction of their time. I think a lot of people would disagree that open field battles is the greatest part of WvW. Regardless, the buff helps shift the momentum in favour of open field battles, so people who like that kind of thing should be happy. And if they aren’t? There is a whole subforum dedicated to monetization of GW2 where I’m sure Crystin Cox would be happy to hear that a “huge” community of players is willing to buy custom arena tickets if she raises the player cap of a custom arena to 25.

dodgycookies.4562:

new buffs gives points for spikes.

GvG is all about spiking the other team down.

Result: Score padding to the detriment of the third server who is not GvGing.

Oh, i already see posts of GvG haters.
OMG, GVG NOW IS NOT ONLY KILL TRADING AND LOOT FARMING, BUT IT’S CREATING UNBALANCE FOR SERVER SCORES ALSO! BAN IT IMMEDIATELY!

Goodnight, GvG!

I know it’s insane and all but when people are having fun in your game, despite being in a way you didn’t initially intend, that’s a good thing and not something to stamp out.

Shiren.9532:

I don’t believe that many people are using the WvW maps to do things other than the intended uses, I believe the majority of people play WvW as intended. I believe the people who don’t are in the minority, and of those who do participate in this kind of thing, for most of them it’s a small fraction of their time. I think a lot of people would disagree that open field battles is the greatest part of WvW. Regardless, the buff helps shift the momentum in favour of open field battles, so people who like that kind of thing should be happy. And if they aren’t? There is a whole subforum dedicated to monetization of GW2 where I’m sure Crystin Cox would be happy to hear that a “huge” community of players is willing to buy custom arena tickets if she raises the player cap of a custom arena to 25.

The custom arena system is heinous first of all. Not only does it only support a small cap of people, it requires gem fees for continued use. Ain’t nobody got time, or money, for that. There needs to be an instance within WvW itself for these events to be done. I suggested earlier an arena add-on in an out of the way corner of the mostly now unused but already existing Eternal Battlegrounds JP. That way we’re not in anybodies way, and hopefully not subject this new buff being implemented. It would keep us from having to stand outside and fight amongst the pigs too lol. We gather within WvW for GvGs for a reason. We like the existing PvP engine there, and it’s convenient. We don’t want to move to sPvP.

As for the popularity of GvG, Formal Dueling (aka Fight Club), etc, I know personally you’re way off. I myself have screenies of GvG events with easily over 60-80 people in attendence (spectators only at that, not including the 20-40 on the field). There is a legitimate number of people GvG caters to, and thus a legitmate potential for new content should they choose to implement it. They seem to enjoy building new things, so what’s wrong with a full scale ruined gladitorial style arena?

The only thing we could hope to ask for after that is that inter-server matches be possible, so we can test ourselves against our comrades as well. =P

violentlycar.5267:

Terra Dactyl.2047:

rhodoc.2381:

At least make the buff stats identical to “an ingame consumable” such a food or oil..so we can make it fair manually. The side without buff eats that food and do GvG.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Revelry_Starcake is pretty kitten close.

It’s also expensive as hell.

And? You wanted an option, you have an option. Next you’re going to say you want it to be free because having a food buff option that was just specifically requested isn’t good enough.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

violentlycar.5267:

Terra Dactyl.2047:

rhodoc.2381:

At least make the buff stats identical to “an ingame consumable” such a food or oil..so we can make it fair manually. The side without buff eats that food and do GvG.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Revelry_Starcake is pretty kitten close.

It’s also expensive as hell.

And? You wanted an option, you have an option. Next you’re going to say you want it to be free because having a food buff option that was just specifically requested isn’t good enough.

buff food is already used in gvg’s
this would take away the ability of a guild to take their own specific buff food which would end in an even larger disadvantage.
also, it would make conditions even stronger.

seems to me that devon and terra working in the same nonsence awnser office!

KStudios.2850:

Perphection.8209:

Also, have you ever sat down and realized that people want GvG because your idea of PvP in this game is terrible? On another note this game is called “GUILD WARS”… What is GvG, oh that’s right it’s GUILD WARS.

Bottom line, this. ^

Guild Halls, Guild Alliances, and GuildvGuild are three staples of the previous game, and relevant to the title lol. All three probably should’ve been enabled prior to game release.

It’s not that I dislike any of this new content necessarily at all. I personally believe it’s admirable enough that after year one you guys (the dev team) are still at it, I really do. But please please please, what does it take to get us a proper GvG arena in a WvW instance so that it can run off the already existing WvW engine (not affected by this new Borderland buff)? Is it not enough that we’re back there behind the windmill holding these event amidst the pigs and the spiders? Now we’re going to have to put up with complaints from our fellow WvW regulars for lack of contribution because we don’t spike our opponents and one-sided fights because one side is all “roided out”? GvG, and small-scale Dueling, is something that has been going on for many months now. It’s not going anywhere, We don’t want to take it to sPvP, having an instance for it in WvW is not too much to ask. Again could be implemented pretty easily with the already existing WvW engine. You guys want to make new content? These events are highly popular, and it’s a concept ripe for creativity!

Shoot, build it in an expanded corner of the already existing JP if you have to! People hardly go there anymore anyway because the chat does not reach outside the instance.

Actually, no its not relevant to the title at all. The title if you paid attention is relevant to the lore history of tyria, when magic was to strong and the ‘guilds’ of tyria were too powerful and the wars they had threatened the world. The title has nothing to do with gvg, guild halls or any of that. Also GW2 is not GW1, its just based on the same lore, if you want the style and play of gw1 better, you can still play it, feel free to go do so.

Secondly if i understand correctly, in the livestream the dev said the BB buff affects all 4 maps, which seems to indicate it does not affect obsidian sanctum. If gvgs were organized on the sanctum map, not only could they avoid the BB buff, but they wouldnt be wasting queue space for players that actually intend to play wvw

The fact is that you ask to remove features requiring more pvp “personal” skill to take and hold than zerginess, which benefit the most to small group play and which is also leading to a better balance of servers in most case-