Guild Wars 2

Coldtart.4785:

rpfohr.7048:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBHhFakRlWW7YxeFuWD4IUt6A2dbAMAuD3Q4oTZVZhNVA-TVSBABQqE8iDBQQ7PwlyvIeAAVq+zCHBg80HAwJAIAACghO0hO0hO0uZgUAMpMC-w

Solo stacking 25 mights using a 2min elite and an utterly ineffective pet skill isn’t very good, not to mention that it’s also your only stability and your only team utility comes at a far greater cost than similar tricks on other classes. Getting 25 stacks of might for an entire zerg is entirely trivial, really.

depends on how you use them. 25 stacks while wildly swining a GS cleaving 2-3 people. Not so effective. 25 stacks using axe AA that bounces off randoms – surprisingly effective.
25 stacks when running a LB DPS build with piercing arrows – you can wipe a chuck of the enemy zerg if you position yourself right to make the most out of your arrows. It is not impossible to get piercing arrows doing 7k+ when you got full might stacks.

That might stacking, works on all builds. It requires only two things; Pet + Elite. RaO is almost always slotted in WvW and running murwellow is a smart choice as it is tanky enough to get off its F2 before dieing.

I don’t know why exactly rangers are such a bad class, but Anet needs to fix them. I’m a pretty poor fighter (I panic) but every ranger I meet is a free kill for me.

Do they need condi purges or something? They just run around doing ineffectual damage until they die, surely something needs fixing there.

We just got a ton of condi removal on active cleanse from the last patch.
What we truly NEED is a system that makes our pets dynamically more resilient the more enemies that are nearby so that the pets can be used in zergs without being a massive hinderance. That and a considerable overhaul of the F2 functions for several pets.

Beyond that – trait fixes;

1. - should not need to trait to use sigil active for players, it should work for both player and pet from the get go!
2. - they gave us a new GM, and broke the 20% reduce CD for F2 skills at the same time, yet NO HOTFIXES for it, even though its been close to a month since they broke it.
3. - tidying up all the pet bonus traits. Most of them are all adept grade traits, but they are spread out all over the place.
4. - less heavy investment in traits to make anything work.

Beyond that;
- Pet AI pathing upgrade (most notably, allow them to scale heights like players do, but also take damage from falls if the height is too great)
- a fix to weapons allowing for better DPS that properly reflects their (anet’s) vision of ranger being a sustained damage class. Especially ranged weapons need a slight tweak to reflect this.
- pet scaling properly with maximum attainable stat levels in game, from the get go (IE: scaling towards ascended stats, not rare/exotic as today)
and last but not least:
Give pets the same HP boost in WvW as they (anet) did to them in PvE!!!!

@ Prysin
Aww you gave it away.
Pulsing Murellow F2 hitting 5 people plus ROA gains might very quickly.

@ Coldtart.4785

Your post shows your lack of knowledge really. First of your not using this just for might but for stability as well, You can never have enough stability. I wouldn’t waste the elite for might alone. It’s a bonus most of the time. You can never have enough stability in a zerg.

And bad mouth the pet cause its a bear….lol of course you don’t use bears when roaming but when in zergs you need a pet thats gonna last a little bit and has a half decent F2 cause your not gonna make much use out of its auto attacks…

Lastly, getting 25 stacks is not Trivial, there is a reason why so many guilds stack on fire fields before a fight. It makes a difference.

@ Prysin any chance you could post a link to your current WvW build please…?

rpfohr.7048:

You can never have enough stability. (1)
…
And bad mouth the pet cause its a bear (2)
…
Lastly, getting 25 stacks is not Trivial, there is a reason why so many guilds stack on fire fields before a fight. It makes a difference. (3)

(1) And rampage as one isn’t close to enough stability, no matter how you use it.

(2) I bad mouth the pet because it’s a pet, bear is obviously the only pet type you can use because its high hp soaks damage, none of their skills are useful for anything.

(3) Getting 25 stacks is trivial because everyone else will also have 25 stacks from a much cheaper source than a 2min elite.

Extra stuff: a warrior hammer auto hitting 2-3 people is doing 0.9 to each target, meaning 1.8-2.7 on a weapon with higher weapon strength and faster attack rate than axe. Ranger axe auto hits 0.5, meaning a hammer warrior that hits 2 targets does more than an axe ranger hitting 3 (guardian greatsword does 0.8, so this still applies).

Bettik.4982:

@ Prysin any chance you could post a link to your current WvW build please…?

which of them??

i run 5-6 different builds depending on my role

Coldtart.4785:

Extra stuff: a warrior hammer auto hitting 2-3 people is doing 0.9 to each target, meaning 1.8-2.7 on a weapon with higher weapon strength and faster attack rate than axe. Ranger axe auto hits 0.5, meaning a hammer warrior that hits 2 targets does more than an axe ranger hitting 3 (guardian greatsword does 0.8, so this still applies).

Extra stuff: Ranger Skirmish line adds +10% crit damage when using axe mainhand and a very efficient bleed-stacking trait with no ICD. This means you need to take the bleed proc into account.
Hammer also means you GOT to put yourself in harms way of the heaviest damage you can possibly expose yourself to; the front of the enemy zerg. The axe – you can kite the frontline and stay relatively safe…. But, warriors do not play it safe do they? they just roll leroy jenkins style and die a glorious death.

Iluth.6875:

I don’t know why exactly rangers are such a bad class, but Anet needs to fix them. I’m a pretty poor fighter (I panic) but every ranger I meet is a free kill for me.

Do they need condi purges or something? They just run around doing ineffectual damage until they die, surely something needs fixing there.

I am pretty sure even rangers look at other rangers as free kills. I don’t know what it is about rangers than makes 95% of people play them so horifically, but it is really quite obvious.

When you have as many survival skills as a standard warrior-guardian melee train runs, going into melee with the enemy is playing it safe, certainly safer than splitting from your group and getting focused.

Some numbers for fun(all these have fury and 25 might stacks):

Full zerk ranger axe auto (includes axe crit damage trait, strength runes and even dps food instead of lemongrass):
1995 effective damage per target hit.

Knight/zerk shout warrior hammer auto:
2730 effective damage per target hit.

Effective damage is the average damage dealt to a target with 1836 armour, which allows for easy comparison with a target’s effective hp. We can clearly see the support warrior doing more damage than the purely selfish dps ranger when the ranger tries to use an axe. Now lets compare these to a real dps build.

Full zerk death shroud necro auto:
7146 effective damage per target hit.

For even more fun, a necro only actually needs 30% unbuffed crit chance to hit 100% with both fury and deathly perception, so you could theoretically swap in some valk to get some extra hp and even more damage than this from your sharpening stone.

it doesnt matter what class you play, if you’re bad youre bad. the class isnt even relevant. i kill warriors, thieves and guardians in wvw all the time, and i’m playing a zerk ranger.

@ Prysin
how about a good solid ‘base’ build? as a ranger new to WvW i’d really like to see such a thing – a ‘start here’ build if you will. personally, i’ve been running with the zerg about half the time, the rest roaming, but i’m not sure either my gear or traits are quite right yet, and unlike other classes we don’t seem to have a lot of builds or information available….

Valentin.2073:

it doesnt matter what class you play, if you’re bad youre bad. the class isnt even relevant. i kill warriors, thieves and guardians in wvw all the time, and i’m playing a zerk ranger.

The problem isn’t scrubs… any good player is going to bring some life to the Ranger party. The problem is when the Ranger runs into someone who knows what they are doing. Then the Ranger is at a decided disadvantage in WvW.

The second problem is the Ranger simply doesn’t have a solid set of group skills to warrant their play over a GWEN.

The last problem is that because the class is difficult to play well, most players that pick the Ranger class are terrible when they might be passable in another class. Every time I run over a Ranger in WvW (which happens ALL the time) I just want to send them a solid warrior build. At least then they would be putting up a solid fight and not be just a speed bump. It must be incredibly frustrating for less experienced players to get mowed over in seconds playing a ranger.

Straegen.2938:

Valentin.2073:

it doesnt matter what class you play, if you’re bad youre bad. the class isnt even relevant. i kill warriors, thieves and guardians in wvw all the time, and i’m playing a zerk ranger.

The problem isn’t scrubs… any good player is going to bring some life to the Ranger party. The problem is when the Ranger runs into someone who knows what they are doing. Then the Ranger is at a decided disadvantage in WvW.

So very true… I by no means consider myself a good Ranger, but I think I can confidently say I’m still better than the majority since on my Ranger, I kill other Rangers quite often, as well as other professions. But as soon as I run in to someone who’s actually using their skills at the right times (Necro interrupting heal with fear, Warrior pinning down when trying to get range, etc) instead of just spamming and hoping to win, it makes it exceptionally more difficult to come out on top. It doesn’t matter how hard you try, if your opponent has any kind of clue how to use their profession your chances of winning go way down.
Now again, I’m not an amazing Ranger, but it doesn’t change the fact that even one that is amazing will have a much harder time against someone who’s very average with their profession.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBhOD7kRF6YxWWwWQ4axA6B1yAYgZmBXg7uIJe7TWxVWB-TlCEABLcBA0U9Hb2fgLlg+o0jJlBG8EAWR3AAHEgBM9QKAmEGB-w

This is probably going to be THE most forgiving build you can run in a zerg… just spam GS AA to get evasion every now and then, and watch your HP. Swap to Axe+WH when you need to heal, drop water (remember to call it), blast, use axe 2 to get extra regeneration proc from field, swap to GS and use GS 3 for leap healing. Bam – 10k self heal + whatever others that blast the field too.

Axe is great for killing people on siege on walls, as you can just hit the oil, cannon, AC, ballista or even the archer NPC, and the axe will bounce around killing people up there.
Axe is also epic for tagging enemies, with some rapid target switching practice you can compete with staff guards in terms of tagging.

Anything glass-ish on ranger is a no-go if not experienced.
Ranger roamer builds (except the one i run and trapper builds) will not work well in zerging. The reason my build works is because i run power bunker and not condi bunker.
Ranger zerg builds (like the one above) will be possible to use in solo/duo roaming, but ideally you shouldnt even think about roaming with that build outside 5 man teams.

How has this thread gone on for so long? The mere fact that someone had to ask “Are Rangers THAT bad?” should be telling enough.

The discussion is:

“Is the Rager class that bad?”
Because of broken pet mechanic that doesn’t allow the pet to jump or to dodge. Because of lacking burst damage and too low damage on the longbow. Because of mixed up traits that put traps for example in the wrong trait line and mostly depend on the survival of the pet. Because there is 1/3 of the damage on a pet that is not reliable. Because the support skills are not as usefull as those of other classes.

Or
“Are Ranger players that bad?”
Because they run PvE builds in WvW and think they are so pro because they can kill other noobs. Because they run longbow with sigle target damage (without piercing arrows). Because they use squishy pets in a zerg and are surprised why their pet dies and they loose 1/3 of their damage and skills. Because they are not able to navigate themselves AND the pet securly through a fight. Because they are not able to play a supporting group-oriented build. Because they use builds that make the pet only a scapegoat and don’t see the possibilities to synergise with the pet.

On my point of view the second point has a much higher impact on the thesis than the first. I see hardly any ranger running melee weapons. They are great. Ranger has so many evades while still doing damage in melee fight. I see hardly any Ranger running Spotter even though this is the unique and best support skill the ranger has. Some people learned that in a big fight a bear can survive better and a drake can blast fields but that might be coincidence as the bear absorbs also damage for them in PvE and the chain-lighning is one of the most reliable pet-mass-damage-skills.

I like the class because of the challenge to navigate two characters through a fight. Otherwise this game would lack a challenge for me that makes the game worth playing. Who doesn’t need the challenge and likes running in circles behind a lamp can simply run a warrior or a thieve for they also have bows. Or who wants to run around the fight and wants to cast damage into it without needing to look after the pet can run an ele.

In general:
Stupid idea to call this class Ranger. It is a Beastmaster and has nothing to do with being the best with ranged weapons.

Edit: Don’t understand me wrong. I don’t say: I am so pro that I can do things better. I say: I like the class as it is. You can make something of it, but it takes more efford. And I say: It might not be 100% as useful in melee fights as a warrior or a guard but you can make your warriors and guards more effective while not being useless yourselve at all (damage- and supportwise).

Oak da Vite.9054:

…

In general:
Stupid idea to call this class Ranger. It is a Beastmaster and has nothing to do with being the best with ranged weapons.

The name Ranger has little to do with ranged weapons. Ranger as a term in both fantasy and real world is meant to be taken as one who covers great distance. The term ranger is exactly as it is meant… range-r not range-d. Rangers are generally considered woodsmen with high mobility, tracking using light armor and fast response for tactical engagements. Original rangers patrolled… modern ones aren’t much different. The bow and arrow thing is a side bar of a handful of fantasy genres. It is a fitting weapon-set but certainly not the only one.

If GW2 wanted to honor both historical and legendary rangers, the class would become the fastest in the game and very hard to pin down in a fight. It already has the makings of this in GW2 but the mechanics are clunky and sub-optimal compared to other faster classes. IMO a heavy armored warrior should never be able to out run a medium armored class built around speed. The thief is similar… stealth classes should never be fast. One can not be stealthy and quick… that is an oxymoron in most fantasy genres.

I would also add that you posted a decent summary although I would argue both your main summaries are true.

Cufufalating.8479:

Iluth.6875:

I don’t know why exactly rangers are such a bad class, but Anet needs to fix them. I’m a pretty poor fighter (I panic) but every ranger I meet is a free kill for me.

Do they need condi purges or something? They just run around doing ineffectual damage until they die, surely something needs fixing there.

I am pretty sure even rangers look at other rangers as free kills. I don’t know what it is about rangers than makes 95% of people play them so horifically, but it is really quite obvious.

100% true. If given a choice when picking a target I go for Rangers every time…no matter what class I am playing.

@Prysin many thanks for the build – there are so very few for WvW out there! And… it’s totally different from what I’m currently running – S/WH, LB (zerkers), full Solider’s armour & trinkets (scholar runes and ruby’s on the trinkets), lightning reflexes, signets and RaO. I’m going to have experiment – thanks again!