Ascended Armour now 10% difference, Thoughts?

Ascended Armour now 10% difference, Thoughts?

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Posted by: Gellrock.4073

Gellrock.4073

How will this change affect you personally in the WvW community?

For me, all I play is WvW (about 95% of my playtime). I rarely touch PvE leaving you a good idea of what my gold amount is at normally. The only ascended pieces I have are 2 from random drops, both of which are on my Guardian. I never really saw Ascended as necessary as I learned how to play my main characters (Guard, Warrior, Necro, Ele) quite well and would always outlive others with full ascended stats. Now however, with the stat difference getting further ahead and the WvW gold gain staying the same I feel like I’ll never get my ascended items and eventually be unable to compete. I feel like this change will force out the more casual WvW guilds that can no longer compete as well as people like myself who don’t enjoy crafting.

Hopefully with the new expansion comes new ways to gain ascended items (like the ascended thing they’ve already announced) or else I might find myself feeling useless in the only game mode I play.

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Posted by: Malediktus.3740

Malediktus.3740

10% is still miniscule
10% more stats on ascended wont make you 10% more powerful, since a huge part of your stats come from the 1000 baseline anyway.

One of my 30 accounts (Malediktus.9250).

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Posted by: Kabikaz.8637

Kabikaz.8637

I feel the same as you. I spent a bit of time getting myself ready for WvW, just started and love it.
Then I see these patch notes, specifically the gear change, and im really feeling discouraged.

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Posted by: Gellrock.4073

Gellrock.4073

10% is still miniscule
10% more stats on ascended wont make you 10% more powerful, since a huge part of your stats come from the 1000 baseline anyway.

That’s true, we’ll have to wait to see how it is in practice before I can really make a decision. I just thought this might anger a lot a players in the WvW community if they don’t implement this change properly.

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

10% is still miniscule
10% more stats on ascended wont make you 10% more powerful, since a huge part of your stats come from the 1000 baseline anyway.

I dont buy this.

5% was miniscule, 10% is miniscule… Some people will keep throwing out that it makes no difference.
When the people who opposed it also presented the slippery slope-argument. And seeing as the gap is now increasing, it seems they were proven right.

If WvW stat boosts are removed (applied fort/strength) because of players getting a statistical advantage over new players, why in the godkitten is ascended still allowed and even getting buffed?

Talk about a statistical advantage. And it’s earned not so much through WvW but PvE. As outside of trinkets, every other ascended piece of gear (armor, weapons, back) are not practically available from WvW. (No i dont consider an ultra rare chest with random stats practically available)

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Posted by: Malediktus.3740

Malediktus.3740

If WvW stat boosts are removed (applied fort/strength) because of players getting a statistical advantage over new players, why in the godkitten is ascended still allowed and even getting buffed?

Talk about a statistical advantage. And it’s earned not so much through WvW but PvE. As outside of trinkets, every other ascended piece of gear (armor, weapons, back) are not practically available from WvW. (No i dont consider an ultra rare chest with random stats practically available)

I also do not get why they remove the stacks, WvW is no sPvP, so need for everyone to be equal.

One of my 30 accounts (Malediktus.9250).

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

At least you (OP) aren’t one of the people who crafted Ascended gear with stats chosen so that they complemented stats gotten from traits! I know quite a few people who did just that.

But only WvW players would have done that: PvP don’t have Ascended, PvE either have all zerkers, or are play-how-you-want players who probably crafted Ascended gear for the skins. So I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t really care.

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Posted by: Orochimaru.4730

Orochimaru.4730

10% isnt much, 5% isnt much, even 1% isnt much.

But when you put two identically evenly skilled players together where one has the ascended gear, the one with the ascended gear will always win.

It’s not much, but every little helps when it comes to any fight.

So if you have the gold and mats craft your ascended gear. If you dont exotics are fine but expect to lose some fights.

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Posted by: BrickFurious.7169

BrickFurious.7169

10% isnt much, 5% isnt much, even 1% isnt much.

But when you put two identically evenly skilled players together where one has the ascended gear, the one with the ascended gear will always win.

It’s not much, but every little helps when it comes to any fight.

So if you have the gold and mats craft your ascended gear. If you dont exotics are fine but expect to lose some fights.

Exactly this. Even the current gap between ascended and exotics was annoying, because no matter how small the gap is it still matters when you’re fighting other players. Now it’ll be even more annoying. It wouldn’t be so bad if ascended armor wasn’t such a massive gold sink, but as a 95% WvW player…I just don’t have 600 gold to drop on a full set of ascended armor. It just isn’t realistic. Do we all have to go farm silverwastes now if we want to be on an even playing field in WvW?

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Posted by: zen.6091

zen.6091

I kinda feel like players with full ascended, mixed ascended / exotic, and full exotic are all having the rug pulled out from under them to some degree.

-If you had full ascended, but figured in trait stats into your build (up to 300 armor and 3000 health), that goes away now, and may affect your build.
-If you ran a little low on vitality assuming you’d have guard stacks most of the time (up to 2500 extra health), that goes away now.
-Can’t salvage ascended gear if you would want to trash something to get the upgrade component back
-Still can’t salvage exotic WvW and karma gear.

These things don’t affect PvE players much since PvE is most generally played with full glass gear, and the meta for optimum runes and sigils has not changed much. Things change in WvW though.

Add in this new mysterious system for skill points / skill challenges (?) to unlock specializations….and you’re basically screwed if you’re a WvW player that players multiple classes, but without a lot of gold and / or time to grind, grind grind.

Then again, we know the wise masters don’t really care about players that just want to play WvW.

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Posted by: Mahkno.7593

Mahkno.7593

we should be able to use badges to buy bolts of damask…

or badges for wvw only ascended armor…

something.

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

10% is not “minuscule” You are free to send me 10% of your gold. I’ve only requested a minuscule amount, right? Many traits offer damage boosts around the area of 5-10%, to compare.

5% was tolerable because it’s still existent and can make a difference, the gap between players is possible to overcome. 10% is of course still possible, but it’s making it harder. Also, if you take 10% less damage and deal 10% more damage, then that would be more than a 10% differenc? Of course, this is just an example; I know that it’s not scaling like that.

I don’t think it’s catastrophic, and heh, I have full ascended myself, but you can’t just dismiss the problem simply because it could be worse. In close fights, these things can throw a wrench into the problem.

Of course, if they add progression to wvw so we can acquire these things more easily, I would not be opposed to that.

But this is kinda irrelevant. The real question is “why?” Why do we need stat creep?

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

(edited by ArchonWing.9480)

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Posted by: Josh XT.6053

Josh XT.6053

Is there anything at all you people won’t complain about? I have 9 full ascended sets, at least one of every ascended weapon, typically 2-3 of some. I’ll have to adjust my armor to make way for the new changes too, but if you farmed as hard as I had to in order to get full ascended gear, then you best believe it better be like a 10% increase. If you don’t want to farm for ascended or fight people with it, go play PvP.

Asphyxia [XT] – Fort Aspenwood Roamer
Twitch Stream – AsphyxiaXT
My Builds at Asphyxia.tv/builds

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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

5% was tolerable because it’s still existent and can make a difference, the gap between players is possible to overcome. 10% is of course still possible, but it’s making it harder. Also, if you take 10% less damage and deal 10% more damage, then that would be more than a 10% differenc? Of course, this is just an example; I know that it’s not scaling like that.

Just for clarification, a 10% increase in stats does not equal a 10% difference in damage dealt, or 10% less damage recieved.

I know you talked about how it doesn’t scale like that, but this is a very important distinction.

As for how it will effect WvW? I don’t think there will be a noticable change. You might notice it most in 1v1 or 5v5 stuff, but in large ZvZ it won’t really be noticed at all.

Someone broke down the math:

Current Exotic Armor Stats:
315/224/224
Exotic Armor Stats + 30% (Projected):
410/291/291

Current Ascended Armor Stats:
329/235/235
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+5% (Projected):
431/306/306
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+10% (Projected):
451/320/320

The difference from 5% to 10% (what everybody is all worked up over) is about 20 main stat and 14 off stat. Not that big of a deal…

As far as specific builds, and what not, I think the general change of removing stats from trait lines will have more of an impact than a buff to gear.

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

If it’s not a big deal, than it won’t be missed if it’s gone.

It’s called consistency.

You cannot justify taking out one stat advantage because it’s deemed unfair to new players, but leave another one intact and infact make that one more significant.

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

5% was tolerable because it’s still existent and can make a difference, the gap between players is possible to overcome. 10% is of course still possible, but it’s making it harder. Also, if you take 10% less damage and deal 10% more damage, then that would be more than a 10% differenc? Of course, this is just an example; I know that it’s not scaling like that.

Just for clarification, a 10% increase in stats does not equal a 10% difference in damage dealt, or 10% less damage recieved.

I know you talked about how it doesn’t scale like that, but this is a very important distinction.

As for how it will effect WvW? I don’t think there will be a noticable change. You might notice it most in 1v1 or 5v5 stuff, but in large ZvZ it won’t really be noticed at all.

Someone broke down the math:

Current Exotic Armor Stats:
315/224/224
Exotic Armor Stats + 30% (Projected):
410/291/291

Current Ascended Armor Stats:
329/235/235
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+5% (Projected):
431/306/306
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+10% (Projected):
451/320/320

The difference from 5% to 10% (what everybody is all worked up over) is about 20 main stat and 14 off stat. Not that big of a deal…

As far as specific builds, and what not, I think the general change of removing stats from trait lines will have more of an impact than a buff to gear.

Thanks for putting out the numbers. I would guess in zergs it doesn’t matter unless they’re highly organized, but the effect on smaller scale (say 10v10) would be a concern to me.

If it’s not a big deal, than it won’t be missed if it’s gone.

It’s called consistency.

You cannot justify taking out one stat advantage because it’s deemed unfair to new players, but leave another one intact and infact make that one more significant.

I suppose there’s a problem of downplaying it though. An argument that downplays them too much is also an argument for not having it at all.

So the real question is really why it was done. If one wants to reward effort through grinding, that might be a reason even if people disagree. But if WvW wasn’t included in the thought process at all, then that’s a problem. If this is part of a greater program, say, a more interesting wvw reward track, then I could play a long. If it’s wvw being pve’s toilet, I would have to decline.

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Is there anything at all you people won’t complain about? I have 9 full ascended sets, at least one of every ascended weapon, typically 2-3 of some. I’ll have to adjust my armor to make way for the new changes too, but if you farmed as hard as I had to in order to get full ascended gear, then you best believe it better be like a 10% increase. If you don’t want to farm for ascended or fight people with it, go play PvP.

Not all of us are college students or unemployed with nothing better to do than spend 14 hours a day farming GW2. Just because you’ve no-lifed for the past 2 years to farm ascended doesn’t mean everyone else should have to.

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Posted by: Fudge.9527

Fudge.9527

Is there anything at all you people won’t complain about? I have 9 full ascended sets, at least one of every ascended weapon, typically 2-3 of some. I’ll have to adjust my armor to make way for the new changes too, but if you farmed as hard as I had to in order to get full ascended gear, then you best believe it better be like a 10% increase. If you don’t want to farm for ascended or fight people with it, go play PvP.

This guy gets it. My question is, why stop at only 10%? If you farm much harder than everyone else, shouldn’t you be getting at least a 50% increase? I feel like if you put in the hours and 500+ gold for Ascended, you should be able to 1-shot people in Exotics. After all, that’s basically how mass pvp works in every other generic MMO, and people bought GW2 knowing it was going to follow the exact same formula. So they shouldn’t be upset.

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Posted by: Nokaru.7831

Nokaru.7831

It’s like 2 more of each stat on each piece of the armor. Once again, the internet will (over)-react before thinking any change through. If you didn’t care enough to get the armor before, you have no reason to care now. Most of the power of Ascended armor is from the weapons and the trinkets.

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

Ok, why are you all talking ONLY about armor, when the actual line from A.net states:

The attribute difference between exotic and ascended gear has been changed from 5% to 10%

GEAR, not only armor. Gear = armor + trinkets + weapons. Or do you have any more (vettable) infos?

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Posted by: Valin.4527

Valin.4527

Is there anything at all you people won’t complain about? I have 9 full ascended sets, at least one of every ascended weapon, typically 2-3 of some. I’ll have to adjust my armor to make way for the new changes too, but if you farmed as hard as I had to in order to get full ascended gear, then you best believe it better be like a 10% increase. If you don’t want to farm for ascended or fight people with it, go play PvP.

This guy gets it. My question is, why stop at only 10%? If you farm much harder than everyone else, shouldn’t you be getting at least a 50% increase? I feel like if you put in the hours and 500+ gold for Ascended, you should be able to 1-shot people in Exotics. After all, that’s basically how mass pvp works in every other generic MMO, and people bought GW2 knowing it was going to follow the exact same formula. So they shouldn’t be upset.

I see what you did there.

-A man of many Valins [KONG]

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

It’s like 2 more of each stat on each piece of the armor. Once again, the internet will (over)-react before thinking any change through. If you didn’t care enough to get the armor before, you have no reason to care now. Most of the power of Ascended armor is from the weapons and the trinkets.

The change is unequivocally a step in the wrong direction. The size of this particular step is relatively unimportant. The important part is the direction of this step, because one step follows another.

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Pull as many grumpy cat images of not amused as you possibly can and it still wont match the rage i have at this idiotic design choice.

I already had a big enough reason to hate ascended, now i have an even greater one. there is no reason for this game to keep going for a gear treadmill. We didnt have one at launch and it worked fine. For some asinine reason we had to appease the “Treadmill fans” and now its getting worse.

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Posted by: Nokaru.7831

Nokaru.7831

The size of this particular step is relatively unimportant.

That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. My opinion is that the size matters, and people should react in proportion with the change. The change is minor and insignificant.; it’s going to increase Ascended’s overall power by 1-2% over Exotic at the most.

Meanwhile, no one talks about a massive change to the game:

  • Base attributes at level 80 now scale to 1000 instead of 926

That’s almost +400 more stats. For everyone. Someone in Exotic gear is going to be much more powerful after the patch than they were before. Meanwhile, Ascended Shoulders are gaining something like +2 to all stats. Which change do you think is actually noticeable and significant?

The important part is the direction of this step, because one step follows another.

Ah, the slippery-slope fallacy. You have to demonstrate this hypotentical thing will exist before concluding it’s a problem

(edited by Nokaru.7831)

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Making it 10% difference would definetly be 2 steps back (I’d say 1 step forward and 2 steps back, but since when did we go forward?). In fact, it would go against everything that GW2 stands for :/

That said, I doubt we will notice a practical effect. Why? Because builds still mater alot more. In WvW, what you meet is pure chance. You can meet someone that you kill without even loosing any HP and you can meet someone you die against without even hurting them… If we look at an equal match, the zerker Thief meeting another zerker Thief with identical builds and identical skill is by far the simplest example, since its just a matter of who strike who first – or who can avoid the initial strike and counter strike. One having exotic and one having ascended will be irrevelevant.

Even when you look at longer attrition fights with high HP classes, its simply too “easy” to negate damage via dodging and other skills. If the enemy has 30K HP and you do 30K damage in a fight, an extra 10% would mean you could do 33K damage instead. Well the enemy just dodged away a 3K hit so there you go.

I dont think we’ll see much more pressure in zergs. You’d die 0.1s faster when you walk into a bomb.

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Posted by: TooBz.3065

TooBz.3065

The size of this particular step is relatively unimportant.

That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. My opinion is that the size matters, and people should react in proportion with the change. The change is minor and insignificant.; it’s going to increase Ascended’s overall power by 1-2% over Exotic at the most.

Meanwhile, no one talks about a massive change to the game:

  • Base attributes at level 80 now scale to 1000 instead of 926

That’s almost +400 more stats. For everyone. Someone in Exotic gear is going to be much more powerful after the patch than they were before. Meanwhile, Ascended Shoulders are gaining something like +2 to all stats. Which change do you think is actually noticeable and significant?

The important part is the direction of this step, because one step follows another.

Ah, the slippery-slope fallacy. You have to demonstrate this hypotentical thing will exist before concluding it’s a problem

You can be upset with the direction without falling into a slippery-slope fallacy. They increased the disparity between ascended gear and exotic gear. That bothers me. Ascended gear bothers me. At first, I figured they would make ascended gear easier to obtain over time. Let the grinders grind for gear first, then let the rest of us catch up.

But that’s not what’s happened. And instead of minimizing the importance of Ascended gear they are increasing it.

The problem isn’t that they increased the stat difference from 5-10%. The problem is that they thought it was a good idea.

Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.

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Posted by: DrMatt.9408

DrMatt.9408

Roaming scene in T1 europe is pretty dead already so things cant get much worse. In any case, if you are running exotic and narrowly loose a fight, you wont know whether that was because your opponent was more skilled, or because they have gear that is more powerful. Increasing to 10% just makes the latter more likely. This kills wvw pvp for me and now I just zerg or play structured pvp.

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Posted by: RlyOsim.2497

RlyOsim.2497

“Seaweed salad is now baseline for Ascended geared players”
-Anet 2015
(And ya, I know the movement element).

As a roamer I’m super disappointed that this change is happening. As a zerg member I don’t really care that much.

Assuming gear means trinkets/armor/weapons, considering most people have ascended trinkets/weapons on their zvz build then really it’s only a 3% stat difference. In high-end in gvg it’ll probably make a difference for sure but in regular zvz, meh.

The power creep in general is going to be really real with this update so I’m not sure an additional 3-5% stats are going to be the deciding factor over the myriad of additional damage every class is going to be doing anyway. And besides, rallybots will still be everywhere, that’s the real issue :P

Easy solution: better rewards in WvW.

The Ghost of Christmas Past

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Posted by: Nokaru.7831

Nokaru.7831

(And ya, I know the movement element).

I hope you also know that a 5% increase in stats is not remotely in the same realm as 10% more damage.

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Posted by: RlyOsim.2497

RlyOsim.2497

(And ya, I know the movement element).

I hope you also know that a 5% increase in stats is not remotely in the same realm as 10% more damage.

It was more a comment on the general perception of this change tbh/it was meant to be a joke

The Ghost of Christmas Past

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Ah, the slippery-slope fallacy. You have to demonstrate this hypotentical thing will exist before concluding it’s a problem

It all started when Ascended was introduced.

Here’s a hint without that step, we wouldn’t have this one or subsequent ones.
Hence not a slippery slope. It was apt and accurate.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

The size of this particular step is relatively unimportant.

That’s your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. My opinion is that the size matters, and people should react in proportion with the change. The change is minor and insignificant.; it’s going to increase Ascended’s overall power by 1-2% over Exotic at the most.

Meanwhile, no one talks about a massive change to the game:

  • Base attributes at level 80 now scale to 1000 instead of 926

That’s almost +400 more stats. For everyone. Someone in Exotic gear is going to be much more powerful after the patch than they were before. Meanwhile, Ascended Shoulders are gaining something like +2 to all stats. Which change do you think is actually noticeable and significant?

The important part is the direction of this step, because one step follows another.

Ah, the slippery-slope fallacy. You have to demonstrate this hypotentical thing will exist before concluding it’s a problem

Even if you take the viewpoint that size of a change matters, there’s still a fundamental problem here.

  1. By making this change, Anet has demonstrated their intent that ascended gear should be the endgame goal for all players, regardless of what they do (pvp notwithstanding)
  2. WvW is either a revenue neutral or negative activity
  3. Crafting ascended armor and weapons is highly expensive
  4. WvW has precisely zero feasible ways to obtain ascended weapons and armor (no, a .01% chance of a random stat chest drop doesn’t count)

Add all these things together, and you get a problem. Anet wants players to use ascended gear, and this is not a problem by itself. However, when you add in the fact that Anet has completely failed to provide any ways of obtaining ascended gear by playing WvW, you’ve got an issue.

This issue could be easily solved if Anet introduced some method of obtaining ascended weapons/armor by playing WvW. They could give a badges conversion, have craftable components drop at higher rates, or just significantly boost the ascended chest drop rate from chests. There’s a lot of ways they could fix this, but the issue is that they’re incentivising the ascended without providing any reasonable way to obtain it for WvWers.

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Posted by: Nokaru.7831

Nokaru.7831

The only reason I interjected my opinion about the stats and their amount was that the change is so small that it changes next to nothing.

I’m not disagreeing that obtaining the gear, especially weapons and armor, is annoying for WvW. Personally, I’d rather they just use PvP rules for WvW and be done with it.

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Posted by: eyestrain.3056

eyestrain.3056

Being flexible is the lifeblood of a roamer, and the time and resources required for crafting ascended means inflexibility. Making a bigger gap between ascended and exotic means that our choice is to be stuck in one build to take advantage of stat bonus, or settle for weaker stats to experiment. Both are unfortunate options since some of the most fun in this game is being able to try many different things with one character quite easily and not be disadvantaged for it.

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Posted by: zen.6091

zen.6091

Personally, I’d rather they just use PvP rules for WvW and be done with it.

+1

Not going to happen though because everyone in WvW LOVES PvE grinding to play WvW, and PvP has been such a smashing eSport success story that they need to keep all players that like PvP in PvP. Right?

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Posted by: Coldtart.4785

Coldtart.4785

People need to not act like the difference between exotic and ascended is small. I just did some quick math-hammer on the expected stat changes for both exotic and ascended using a full soldier’s guardian as the base and got these results:

Exotic
Effective power: 2775.36
Effective HP: 33640.30

Ascended
Effective power: 3213.06 (15.8% higher)
Effective HP: 37505.86 (11.5% higher)

That’s a massive difference. The overall performance boost is around 30% from upgrading from full exotic to full ascended. That performance only considers a straight dps race. Anything else I could possibly include would only tip things even further in favour of ascended.

To use some practical examples: if you are using full exotic and at any point your enemy falls below 13% HP, you would’ve just downed them if you were using full ascended. If you are using full ascended and fall below 10% HP at any point, you would’ve just been downed if you were using full exotic.

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Posted by: Galandil.9641

Galandil.9641

Alright, since I don’t like to talk without looking at actual figures, I put down an excel spreadsheet to see how much the actual damage will change in % in the various scenarios (Exo vs Ascended, Asc vs Exo, Asc vs Asc).

I made the following assumption:

- Exos will get a net +30% on armor defense value and character stats. Absolute Exo weapon damage is irrelevant since it’a baseline (so it doesn’t matter for the comparation if it will be boosted by 30% or not).
- Ascended will get a net +10% from Exos values of armor defense/char stats/weapon damage.
- The “Exo” player will have always at least all ascended trinkets.

These are the fixed point in my analysis. Let’s start to look at the actual (pre-patch) damage coefficients in the 3 scenarios above. We all know that damage = weapon dmg * power / armor (skill coefficient is a constant so it can be scrapped, and I didn’t include all the possible scenarios involving crit chance/damage-might-vuln-etc., too long to look at and it wouldn’t help us to understand how base damage will change in the coming patch). As of now, Asc weapons have a +5% damage range compared to Exos. I used the “worst” case scenario, i.e. the primary stat used in the gear is Power.

Exo Weapon vs Exo Armor: 1.078/1.000/0.931 (vs Light/Medium/Heavy Armor, no additional Toughness from traits)
Exo Weapon vs Asc Armor: 1.051/0.974/0.906 (-2.48%/-2.64%/-2.28%)
Exo Armor + Asc Wpn vs Exo Armor: 1.137/1.055/0.982 (5.47% in all cases)
Exo Armor + Asc Wpn vs Asc Armor: 1.109/1.027/0.955 (
2.86%/2.69%/2.59%)
Asc vs Exo Armor: 1.187/1.101/1.025 (10.12% in all cases)
Asc vs Asc Armor: 1.158/1.072/0.997 (
7.38%/7.21%/7.11%)

We can infer from these numbers that Ascended gear actually introduced a power creep, since even full Ascended vs full Ascended increased the overall damage inflicted by at least a 7% from the original situation of Exo vs Exo.

Now, let’s move on to the projected numbers given by the new stat system.

Exo Weapon vs Exo Armor: 1.079/0.994/0.920 (baseline)
Exo Weapon vs Asc Armor: 1.023/0.939/0.867 (-5.16%/-5.49%/-5.76%)
Exo Armor + Asc Wpn vs Exo Armor: 1.198/1.104/1.022 (11.08% in all cases)
Exo Armor + Asc Wpn vs Asc Armor: 1.136/1.043/0.963 (
5.34%/4.99%/4.68%)
Asc vs Exo Armor: 1.219/1.123/1.040 (12.98% in all cases)
Asc vs Asc Armor: 1.156/1.061/0.980 (
7.15%/6.78%/6.47%)

As you can see, the % in this case are higher than how they are at the moment. That +12.98% in the full Ascended vs Exotic armor in particular is very worrying, going around in WvW with that armor it’s like having 13 stacks of Vulnerability always on vs a full ascended geared player (more than the +10.12% seen before). The only thing that actually decreases compared to the baseline from the present situation is the full Asc vs full Asc.

Now, maybe the weapon damage range difference between exos and asc will remain the same at +5%, or maybe not all the values will be increased by 10%, but I honestly doubt it and I fear for the worse. This is one of the most, if not THE most bad choice made by A.net, it’ll be a lot harder than now to gear different alts and/or experimenting/switching to different builds on the same toon, we’ll have to choose between spending a LOT of money toward gear or stick to exo armors (which are obviously the most expensive part of the gear) and suffer more damage than before from fully Asc geared players.

However, keep in mind, as I said earlier, that I considered Power as the primary stat in the gear, so other mixed gears will see a lower increase in damage compared to the baseline.

It remains, though, that people that states “it’s a little difference” should revise a little their math knowledge and stop saying that, cause it’s actually NOT true.

(edited by Galandil.9641)

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Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

How will this change affect you personally in the WvW community?

For me, all I play is WvW (about 95% of my playtime). I rarely touch PvE leaving you a good idea of what my gold amount is at normally. The only ascended pieces I have are 2 from random drops, both of which are on my Guardian. I never really saw Ascended as necessary as I learned how to play my main characters (Guard, Warrior, Necro, Ele) quite well and would always outlive others with full ascended stats. Now however, with the stat difference getting further ahead and the WvW gold gain staying the same I feel like I’ll never get my ascended items and eventually be unable to compete. I feel like this change will force out the more casual WvW guilds that can no longer compete as well as people like myself who don’t enjoy crafting.

Hopefully with the new expansion comes new ways to gain ascended items (like the ascended thing they’ve already announced) or else I might find myself feeling useless in the only game mode I play.

I donoe what to tell you man.

But heres the thing. I used to play mainly WvW with PvE on the side as well, and managed 3 full ascended sets on 3 toons + 1 legendary, while my other 3 toons have various pieces. And this came mainly from WvW.

So I just dont know what to say. I can have them and do, you can’t and don’t.

I do not understand. If I can have the 10% or insert%here because I got ascended via mostly WvW, so can everyone else. This issue is simply not an issue. No furtehr discussions necessary.

Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF

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Posted by: urieldhynne.2743

urieldhynne.2743

What happen with the “no vertical progression” ?

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Posted by: Gellrock.4073

Gellrock.4073

How will this change affect you personally in the WvW community?

For me, all I play is WvW (about 95% of my playtime). I rarely touch PvE leaving you a good idea of what my gold amount is at normally. The only ascended pieces I have are 2 from random drops, both of which are on my Guardian. I never really saw Ascended as necessary as I learned how to play my main characters (Guard, Warrior, Necro, Ele) quite well and would always outlive others with full ascended stats. Now however, with the stat difference getting further ahead and the WvW gold gain staying the same I feel like I’ll never get my ascended items and eventually be unable to compete. I feel like this change will force out the more casual WvW guilds that can no longer compete as well as people like myself who don’t enjoy crafting.

Hopefully with the new expansion comes new ways to gain ascended items (like the ascended thing they’ve already announced) or else I might find myself feeling useless in the only game mode I play.

I donoe what to tell you man.

But heres the thing. I used to play mainly WvW with PvE on the side as well, and managed 3 full ascended sets on 3 toons + 1 legendary, while my other 3 toons have various pieces. And this came mainly from WvW.

So I just dont know what to say. I can have them and do, you can’t and don’t.

I do not understand. If I can have the 10% or insert%here because I got ascended via mostly WvW, so can everyone else. This issue is simply not an issue. No furtehr discussions necessary.

You are saying you got a ton of those 0.01% drop or less ascended armour/weapon boxes from WvW? Yes, everyone can technically get all this from WvW but playing pve for the better gold/mat gain is a much easier. If you did get it from random loots drops in WvW then you should buy a lottery ticket. :p

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Posted by: Kaiser.9873

Kaiser.9873

10% is not “minuscule” You are free to send me 10% of your gold. I’ve only requested a minuscule amount, right? Many traits offer damage boosts around the area of 5-10%, to compare.

5% was tolerable because it’s still existent and can make a difference, the gap between players is possible to overcome. 10% is of course still possible, but it’s making it harder. Also, if you take 10% less damage and deal 10% more damage, then that would be more than a 10% differenc? Of course, this is just an example; I know that it’s not scaling like that.

I don’t think it’s catastrophic, and heh, I have full ascended myself, but you can’t just dismiss the problem simply because it could be worse. In close fights, these things can throw a wrench into the problem.

Of course, if they add progression to wvw so we can acquire these things more easily, I would not be opposed to that.

But this is kinda irrelevant. The real question is “why?” Why do we need stat creep?

That is the essential question here. Why do we need stat creep? Wasn’t this game sold as a non-grinder? Sure 10% is relatively minor, but it’s still 10%, and no longer 5%. 5% I was willing to do without on my necro, warrior, ele, and sometimes engi. Did the ascended crafting on the guard, and that was fine, but left me in a constant state of poverty. Nowadays, depending on the guild comp we run I can either be on guard, warrior, necro, or ele, and alot of time when just running around I run around on engi. Spent most of my big mats on the guardian’s set, and now I have to go back and make at least 1 medium and 1 light set?

Do the devs truly believe very many WvWers spend adequate time in PvE-land to get the gold or mats to make many sets of ascended to outfit all their characters? I MIGHT make a set of cloth armor for my necro, but that will be it for me as far as ascended goes(weapons excepted).

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Posted by: Zero Day.2594

Zero Day.2594

10% is still miniscule
10% more stats on ascended wont make you 10% more powerful, since a huge part of your stats come from the 1000 baseline anyway.

I’m guessing you’re still wearing yellows? For the same reason… since I mean, the difference between yellows and exotics is miniscule…

Thief Nerf/Change Wish List. Advice List
Join the TEEFs!

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Posted by: selan.8354

selan.8354

I think its stupid to make the gap even bigger. getting ascended armor is a horrible grind for a wvw player. and the joke is in wvw armor matters a lot. if they are making ascended armor stronger then they should add some new way to get it through wvw and not brainless pve farming and chopping stupid trees for days…

seriously anet, could u please consider the wvw community for once?

Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood

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Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

How will this change affect you personally in the WvW community?

For me, all I play is WvW (about 95% of my playtime). I rarely touch PvE leaving you a good idea of what my gold amount is at normally. The only ascended pieces I have are 2 from random drops, both of which are on my Guardian. I never really saw Ascended as necessary as I learned how to play my main characters (Guard, Warrior, Necro, Ele) quite well and would always outlive others with full ascended stats. Now however, with the stat difference getting further ahead and the WvW gold gain staying the same I feel like I’ll never get my ascended items and eventually be unable to compete. I feel like this change will force out the more casual WvW guilds that can no longer compete as well as people like myself who don’t enjoy crafting.

Hopefully with the new expansion comes new ways to gain ascended items (like the ascended thing they’ve already announced) or else I might find myself feeling useless in the only game mode I play.

I donoe what to tell you man.

But heres the thing. I used to play mainly WvW with PvE on the side as well, and managed 3 full ascended sets on 3 toons + 1 legendary, while my other 3 toons have various pieces. And this came mainly from WvW.

So I just dont know what to say. I can have them and do, you can’t and don’t.

I do not understand. If I can have the 10% or insert%here because I got ascended via mostly WvW, so can everyone else. This issue is simply not an issue. No furtehr discussions necessary.

You are saying you got a ton of those 0.01% drop or less ascended armour/weapon boxes from WvW? Yes, everyone can technically get all this from WvW but playing pve for the better gold/mat gain is a much easier. If you did get it from random loots drops in WvW then you should buy a lottery ticket. :p

No. Let me repeat again. I gained my Ascended MOSTLY via WvW. Not drops, but mats for them and the mats for my jugg + a lot of gold leftover from what I did not use and threw up on TP.

As far as the crafting skills themselves go, your 1st time on 1st skills on 1st toon it can be a PITA cause you’re very short on gold when you start. So I will give anyone that. But last time I p-leveled a crafting skill on my ele it took me a whole 2 hours. Seriously. You’d have to be utterly stupid not to get it on your 2nd or 3rd time around.

Only bad thing I see is that I used a ton of skillpoints for mat conversion, which may or may not be possible any longer with the upcoming expansion. So I would advise anyone to convert now and stock up on everything.

Heavy Deedz – COSA – SF

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Posted by: Gellrock.4073

Gellrock.4073

No. Let me repeat again. I gained my Ascended MOSTLY via WvW. Not drops, but mats for them and the mats for my jugg + a lot of gold leftover from what I did not use and threw up on TP.

As far as the crafting skills themselves go, your 1st time on 1st skills on 1st toon it can be a PITA cause you’re very short on gold when you start. So I will give anyone that. But last time I p-leveled a crafting skill on my ele it took me a whole 2 hours. Seriously. You’d have to be utterly stupid not to get it on your 2nd or 3rd time around.

Only bad thing I see is that I used a ton of skillpoints for mat conversion, which may or may not be possible any longer with the upcoming expansion. So I would advise anyone to convert now and stock up on everything.

Well I guess I’m utterly stupid for not being interested in crafting. I’ve got some up to 400 from way back when but then I realized crafting is balls and I can compete just a well in exotic armour/ ascended trinkets. I don’t want to farm mats and do world completion just to get legendaries/ascended. So I chose not to get ascended items as I didn’t need them due to the stat difference being miniscule and how I could beat someone wearing full ascended. That’s two years or more of game time that I could have spent crafting and such if it turns out ascended armours actullay do have a meaningful impact to your character.

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Posted by: displayname.8315

displayname.8315

WvW is end game and your expected to have the leet gear and phat lootz for end game. I also do mostly wuv and will probably never have a legendary, but I like the idea of people with a legendary getting a 20% boost on their weopon stats or whatever it is.

JQ subsidiary

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Meanwhile, no one talks about a massive change to the game:

  • Base attributes at level 80 now scale to 1000 instead of 926

That’s almost +400 more stats.

Meanwhile you choose to ignore that people are losing 700 stats from traitlines. Not just that… those where stats you got to choose (at least to some degree). Your 400 are spread out evenly, so given any one build you’re getting a ton of worthless stats.

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Posted by: Fuzzion.2504

Fuzzion.2504

Certain stats scale really well on certain classes and for them the 10% will make a huge difference.

Fuzzionx [SF]
Guest member of [LOVE]
JQ official Prime Minister

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Posted by: Jayden Ennok.3687

Jayden Ennok.3687

People still complaining that wvwers only have no asc? While I agree wvw is way slower in acquiring mats than pve, the loot is still there and unless you are one of the few that upgrade everything all the time. you should be able to craft some asc by now.

Underworld Vabbi 1.5yr

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Posted by: Shala.8352

Shala.8352

it only took me 1 year to make my character full ascended, but i can say that 10% makes a looot of difference. Off course if you are a noob you will lose even with ascended armor, but in duels it makes much much difference. Still is not needed to play wvw or zerging around, you can feel the difference from that 10% in roaming/duels or low scale combats.