Guild Wars 2

Gamadorn.2659:

Shiren.9532:

This is why we can’t take the buff hatred seriously. It’s a fact that you can cap and hold two ruins at the same time with a single person and run back and forth from them before they neutralise. A single person can easily maintain two ruins as long as another player doesn’t come along and neutralise one (and even then you have a window of opportunity to respond to that person). It may even be possible to cap and hold three ruins with a portal mesmer (I doubt it) but honestly, if your server can’t spare two people to cap the buff they clearly don’t care about trying to obtain it and have no right to complain about it.

There’s a lot of blind hatred for the buff and a lot of it is based around false arguments. There is a world of difference between the existing buff and the old buff and it’s clear a large number of the people complaining about the buff aren’t even trying to be smart about obtaining it.

It’s not the strongest server that gets the buff, it’s the server with the organised group that tries to cap the ruins that gets the buff. The simple fact that the meta needs time to establish around the best tactics to accomplish that is enough to put off a lot of this criticism. I often seen the buff held by the server with the lowest or second lowest PPT and my current match is a blowout.

I feel like I’ve been having this same conversation with people over and over…

No one is arguing that the smaller servers can cap it….or “the more organzied group” or whatever label makes you sleep at night….

maybe in NA prime time you server can manage to hold it for a few hours…maybe all three…I dunno…who cares…that’s not the point….

Again…the point is straight forward and simple….any point of interest on any given map, i don’t care if it was a camp that all three servers really wanted to hold throughout the day…the server that has more people and more coverage…will hold that point longer in a 24 hour period then the other servers….that’s it…

If you put a point on a map and give it something that makes it worth holding….again…the server that has more people and better coverage…on average throughout the day will tend to hold it more than the other 2 servers…

When matchups are even its a great mechanic!

Again, not saying its impossible to cap (they made it this way on purpose), just saying, if you could aggregate the amount of time that server’s have held 1,2 or 3 bloodlust buff’s…I suspect you will find that the larger server/better coverage server’s hold it longer than the others…

There’s a really simple way to prove this……everyone screen shot your current WvW Scoreboard, heck do it once a day roughly around primetime, and let’s see which team is holding most of the bloodlust. I’m betting it will be the #1 team with most of the BL capped everytime, which is usually the team that has the most population and coverage. This may not hold true in T1……..but I’m betting I’d be right 95% of the match-ups from there.

The logic isn’t hard here.
Team #1 has 100 players.
Team #2 has 60
Team #3 has 40.

Team #1 can dedicate 30 players to BL points and still have 70 players taking towers/camps etc. If any of those other two teams dedicated 30 players to compete for the bloodlust buff they wouldn’t have much of a chance to do anything else.

As they would have less than half of the players to match the 70 man zerg that could still run around and capture towers/camps.

Granted the numbers are all generalized for this example……but unless the population in WvW is close between the 3 servers matched up, the over populated server should win everytime. It’s that simple.

How can Anet fix this?
Honestly they really can’t…….it would really have to be up to the player base to try and maximize server population. Really, and my suggestion, is that Anet should allow one free transfer for anyone who wants to move servers before the WvW Leagues start.

And then it’s on the WvW community to handle the rest. We can set up a listing of WvW guilds, get a guild member count of active’s in WvW and start splitting stuff up upon request. Similar to most start up leagues of any kind.

I’d even offer to spearhead this if Anet offered the free transfer before the leagues started, and if the community truly wanted a more even WvW experience.

I like the bloodlust buff as it gives incentives to small team roamers but at the same time, that bonus shouldn’t be a straight 150 stat buff, should be something like an anti-seige buff. -20% damage from seige per orb because the main issue with adding bloodlust has always been the players turtling behind walls with 5 superior arrow carts.

Bloodlust fail….
lower tier server has no chance of winning.
this update gives me a reason to stop playing GW2 and play GTA5 and GTA online

Dankazama.6970:

Bloodlust fail….
lower tier server has no chance of winning.
this update gives me a reason to stop playing GW2 and play GTA5 and GTA online

then go ahead and play 21hours of GTA 5 story before you will get bored after it again.
Lower tier servers had no chance before as well because the difference was simply too big.

WVW is unfair by design. The question now is why not make it fair?

E-sport is about balance, like real sports. So, if gw2 is to be an e-sport, there ought to be balance all throughout – whether pve, pvp, and wvw.

rhodoc.2381:

The buff does make no sense. You cant control the buff being on you at your wish. The buffs come and goes fast and you dont even realize even it is there. It is not different than any random code gives you between 0 to 3 buff every 10 sec for 10 sec.

It is not like " Hey we are going to attack garrison but lets cap those points first then try". Even if you cap the current map out of 3, you will lose it in not time. It has no synergy with the rest of the WvW whatsoever.

Sounds like you are playing really poorly. If you are going to cap the buff, all you need is three people to hold it until reinforcements arrive (if necessary). You can very easily maintain the buff if you try. If the enemy takes it from you, it’s either because you didn’t try to hold it, they outplayed you or they sent greater numbers to the ruins to swamp your defenders and any reinforcements. If it’s the first, you played badly, if it’s the second the enemy played better than you and deserver the buff and if it’s the third, it means the buff distracted the enemy forces and pulled resources from within their keep to the ruins and resulted in a net gain for you.

There is so much whining about the buff based on arguments like yours and the answer is usually “you are doing it wrong”.

Shiren.9532:

rhodoc.2381:

The buff does make no sense. You cant control the buff being on you at your wish. The buffs come and goes fast and you dont even realize even it is there. It is not different than any random code gives you between 0 to 3 buff every 10 sec for 10 sec.

It is not like " Hey we are going to attack garrison but lets cap those points first then try". Even if you cap the current map out of 3, you will lose it in not time. It has no synergy with the rest of the WvW whatsoever.

Sounds like you are playing really poorly. If you are going to cap the buff, all you need is three people to hold it until reinforcements arrive (if necessary). You can very easily maintain the buff if you try. If the enemy takes it from you, it’s either because you didn’t try to hold it, they outplayed you or they sent greater numbers to the ruins to swamp your defenders and any reinforcements. If it’s the first, you played badly, if it’s the second the enemy played better than you and deserver the buff and if it’s the third, it means the buff distracted the enemy forces and pulled resources from within their keep to the ruins and resulted in a net gain for you.

There is so much whining about the buff based on arguments like yours and the answer is usually “you are doing it wrong”.

The key point is you cannot both hold the point and go for usual WvW taking towers etc. You need to pick one. And i dont wanna waste my time to hold the point during my playtime. There is no safe period for the buff staying on me.

The old buff implementation was superior to this excluding hacks and exploits. At least you could hold those buff at your wish. And it wasnt extremely easy to lose the buff. There were some hard work to get the buff and it was serious.

Now it is just random people taking random cap points and ppl having random number of buffs on them.

Shiren.9532:

rhodoc.2381:

The buff does make no sense. You cant control the buff being on you at your wish. The buffs come and goes fast and you dont even realize even it is there. It is not different than any random code gives you between 0 to 3 buff every 10 sec for 10 sec.

It is not like " Hey we are going to attack garrison but lets cap those points first then try". Even if you cap the current map out of 3, you will lose it in not time. It has no synergy with the rest of the WvW whatsoever.

Sounds like you are playing really poorly. If you are going to cap the buff, all you need is three people to hold it until reinforcements arrive (if necessary). You can very easily maintain the buff if you try. If the enemy takes it from you, it’s either because you didn’t try to hold it, they outplayed you or they sent greater numbers to the ruins to swamp your defenders and any reinforcements. If it’s the first, you played badly, if it’s the second the enemy played better than you and deserver the buff and if it’s the third, it means the buff distracted the enemy forces and pulled resources from within their keep to the ruins and resulted in a net gain for you.

There is so much whining about the buff based on arguments like yours and the answer is usually “you are doing it wrong”.

The real problem is that a lot of people don’t want the buff.
We don’t want to have it, don’t want to get it, don’t want to defend it, don’t want our enemies to have it – we just don’t want the buff at all.

Increased Yak speed, stronger gates and walls, additional workers, more supply per yak, points per stomp, all the buffs from “outnumbered” – that would all be fine.

Too late to QQ about this, Anet has your money for the game title and they can do w/e stupid kitten they want to WvW, just quit spending money in the gem store and/or move on to another game.

rhodoc.2381:

The buff does make no sense. You cant control the buff being on you at your wish. The buffs come and goes fast and you dont even realize even it is there. It is not different than any random code gives you between 0 to 3 buff every 10 sec for 10 sec.

It is not like " Hey we are going to attack garrison but lets cap those points first then try". Even if you cap the current map out of 3, you will lose it in not time. It has no synergy with the rest of the WvW whatsoever.

That’s fine. Don’t defend it. The buff gives players who want to play in small skirmishes and parties something valuable to contribute to the entire server. It’s an additional option that matters to everyone that is designed not to favour the zerg. It absolutely has synergy. It’s a tactical choice and an opportunity for smaller groups of players to make an impact on the overall flow of the four maps. Capturing and holding the buff on your map is contributing to all four maps. The enemy can ignore a tower at the bottom of the map, or a supply camp someone flipped, but the buff is going to impact on everything they do in a small way. Because the buff is equally available to all three servers at any point in time (there are no tower or keep walls to protect it, just an open field) it adds another layer to how you play in WvW.

Warthog.6870:

The real problem is that a lot of people don’t want the buff.
We don’t want to have it, don’t want to get it, don’t want to defend it, don’t want our enemies to have it – we just don’t want the buff at all.

Increased Yak speed, stronger gates and walls, additional workers, more supply per yak, points per stomp, all the buffs from “outnumbered” – that would all be fine.

What do people want? The numbers would tell us players want to PvDoor and karma train our way through WvW. Massing in large numbers that rarely need to use tactics or skilled gameplay to accomplish anything is the most rewarding, most popular and easiest thing to do. If that is what people want, should they just ignore it?

Most people won’t care about yak speed and that other stuff. For starters, stronger walls would be very difficult to implement for a mechanic that can flip back and forth every three minutes or so (although I guess the structural vulnerability opens the way for this to a certain extent). The vast majority of players won’t care about faster yaks – a lot of players don’t even know what yaks do or how upgrades work. Players can’t even show enough consideration or discipline to hold off on taking supply from a supply camp that needs to be upgraded once it flips, they aren’t going to give a flying hoot about faster yaks. Most servers have paper towers and keeps. Coverage differences and the ease of flipping them (especially on a home bl which often empties once it’s full capped due to boredom) is too much of a disincentive to upgrade much. The buff has to matter. Players have to care about it otherwise the ruins become a pointless part of the map. I seriously doubt many players outside of top tiers will care about faster yaks – upgrading is far less valuable the spottier your coverage is. Points pet tick is the same – few people outside of the top tiers really cares about them. With leagues and guarantee blow-out matches for seven weeks even fewer people will care about them. I doubt the outmanned buff will be enough for people to dedicate time to capping things in the ruins, it doesn’t impact on the match, it just helps farmers farm better. That’s a pretty weak motivation.

I think it is now time to play “Which Dev is Shiren?”

Seriously though, you are proving to be nothing but an apologist and your arguments don’t really make any sense:

“It’s an additional option that matters to everyone that is designed not to favour the zerg”
And how does it not favor the zerg? +300 to +900 Stat Points seems quite handy for everyone. Are you saying it is because the location/terrain doesn’t favor Zergs? Here’s a news flash for ya – the population gap is so large between NA Tiers the dominant Servers can put 15 in the Ruins and still have 40-60 attacking/defending locations. The less-populated Servers simply can’t. They don’t have the numbers to fight on 4 maps. They don’t have the numbers to split their forces on a single map.

Outside of the rare semi-balanced match WvW is purely a game of numbers and coverage both tactically and strategically and a Buff that makes the strategically-stronger force tactically stronger as well is stupid if you want to encourage participation.

“I doubt the outmanned buff will be enough for people to dedicate time to capping things in the ruins, it doesn’t impact on the match, it just helps farmers farm better. That’s a pretty weak motivation.”
Here’s something we can agree on. The Outnumbered Buff is horrible and I hope you really enjoy that because you are either going to have it a lot or be fighting Servers who do. Buffing the Server with the largest numbers so they are now that much stronger Defenders and asking Outnumbered players to take them out while both weaker and having each Stomp put their own Server a further 1-3 Points behind is absolutely idiotic.

You can try to defend it all you want but it is a poor decision that will drive more and more players from the game.

I can’t help but sometimes really wonder what goes through your head ArenaNet. At least once a month you guys just add something completely and utterly dumb to the game. Orbs (or Bloodlust as the kids these days call it) has always just ruined WvW. Without orbs the Guild vs Guild community was really thriving. Thanks to Bloodlust GvG is pretty much no more and I highly doubt you will add it anytime soon because lets be honest here…you are ArenaNet. See you all in <insert next over hyped MMO here>.

Shiren.9532:

rhodoc.2381:

The buff does make no sense. You cant control the buff being on you at your wish. The buffs come and goes fast and you dont even realize even it is there. It is not different than any random code gives you between 0 to 3 buff every 10 sec for 10 sec.

It is not like " Hey we are going to attack garrison but lets cap those points first then try". Even if you cap the current map out of 3, you will lose it in not time. It has no synergy with the rest of the WvW whatsoever.

Sounds like you are playing really poorly. If you are going to cap the buff, all you need is three people to hold it until reinforcements arrive (if necessary). You can very easily maintain the buff if you try. If the enemy takes it from you, it’s either because you didn’t try to hold it, they outplayed you or they sent greater numbers to the ruins to swamp your defenders and any reinforcements. If it’s the first, you played badly, if it’s the second the enemy played better than you and deserver the buff and if it’s the third, it means the buff distracted the enemy forces and pulled resources from within their keep to the ruins and resulted in a net gain for you.

There is so much whining about the buff based on arguments like yours and the answer is usually “you are doing it wrong”.

You are going on the premise that all populations are equal. That one side can field X people to hold the buffs and another side will send an equal amount of people to take the buffs. Great theory-crafting, which I am sure the developer used, but it does not work like this in the live game. A server with more troops in a map will be able to devote more people to the buffs and/or just roll their zerg through the buff zones every so often to discourage any smaller populated server to even bother.

But again, theorycrafting may say, ‘Well, each map has a player cap, you will have the same numbers in your zerg if you used the same tactics.’ But if a larger populated server can field a zerg on on three battlegrounds and your sever can only fill one battle ground, you will be facing a zerg that all has at least +50 to all their stats (if you managed to hold the points on the currently contested map) to +150 (if they held it on the current map) because the other two borderlands will not have much, if any, resistance to their other two map zergs.

Say all you want about better tactics and whatnot, the bloodlust buff does indeed benefit the server with the greatest population and should be removed. The bonus points for spiking is more than enough incentive.

Personally, I would rather the bloodlust buff go away comepletely (buff stats and spike points) and have PPT based on how long objectives are held for (as someone else suggested in another thread). If I had my way, we’d refill the lake and have an underwater tower/keep. The game has some fun underwater mechanics that has never really seen any use aside from very small skirmishes.

Please dear Anet listen to your community. Vast majority don’t want/like the bloodlust buff at its current form. What is more the most kitten ed ppl from my guild, are ppl who liked roaming. Some says that bloodlust gives space to small groups, but its utterly oposite, I’ve been troling my PU mesmer with 3 stacks of bloodlust, 8 ppl at once, half of them get bored and go away the rest I’ve stomped(sure they were poor players and some of them weren’t full 80, but it’s not the point). Its not fun at all, it is irritating, frustrating etc. People who roam likes, small but intense battles with minimal level of fairness and balance, bloodlust destroys it to the ground.

Phent.9350:

Please dear Anet listen to your community. Vast majority don’t want/like the bloodlust buff at its current form. What is more the most kitten ed ppl from my guild, are ppl who liked roaming. Some says that bloodlust gives space to small groups, but its utterly oposite, I’ve been troling my PU mesmer with 3 stacks of bloodlust, 8 ppl at once, half of them get bored and go away the rest I’ve stomped(sure they were poor players and some of them weren’t full 80, but it’s not the point). Its not fun at all, it is irritating, frustrating etc. People who roam likes, small but intense battles with minimal level of fairness and balance, bloodlust destroys it to the grund,

this …

i started thinking about this bloodlust buff when in a big fight i saw in my wirl ( guardian not full berseker ) 1000+ , 2500+ , 4500+ , and final 6950 damage on players and i said …..wtf ? and i opened my hero panel and i saw that my attack have changed from 3050 up to 3680 !!!

this was not a result by my efforts but someone else captured these ruins and i felt like i leeched his effort ….

i want my victories remained mine not someone else

if they were too arrogant to pull the plug on ascended gear after the monstrous thread, and their stock plummeting, they’re sure as hell not going to fix any of the damage they’ve continuously done to WvW. at this point, it’s a lost cause. the only thing we can do is sit by and watch with morbid curiosity at just how horrible they can make a game that had such an incredible amount of potential at launch. like scientists watching a flesh eating plague consume some test subjects.

Phantom.8130:

if they were too arrogant to pull the plug on ascended gear after the monstrous thread, and their stock plummeting, they’re sure as hell not going to fix any of the damage they’ve continuously done to WvW. at this point, it’s a lost cause. the only thing we can do is sit by and watch with morbid curiosity at just how horrible they can make a game that had such an incredible amount of potential at launch. like scientists watching a flesh eating plague consume some test subjects.

I think they can still save the test subject from the flesh eating plague. There’s still time for a major WvW overhaul patch. Blood lust buff turned into magic find buff and dolyak swiftness boons would make everyone happy. A new match up algorithm based on, oh I don’t know, servers of equal rank being matched. Crazy idea I know. A real 1st and second place reward for winning the week. A chest with goodies. WvW ranks visible to other players. An improved outnumbered buff, karma/chest rewards for successfully defending a T3 castle, and no AOE cap for slot skills. All that would fix WvW and get this game back on track. Question is why don’t they do it?

I personally love the bloodlust, on blackgate, it seems it’s usually myself and maybe small groups of 2-3 actually doing the points and holding them. Which I believe was the intention?

Working great over here.

tom.7468:

These points can be capped by 1 player that give outnumbered servers a chance to be able to actually win some fights.

Not trying to insult, but this kind of thinking is silly.

Go to a WvW map and tell me which ones have 1 person flipping nodes with no opposition.

I stated this else where…..take a screeny of your WvW scores at primetime and look at which servers have the most orbs. I bet it’s the ones with the larger pop.

Araris.7839:

I personally love the bloodlust, on blackgate, it seems it’s usually myself and maybe small groups of 2-3 actually doing the points and holding them. Which I believe was the intention?

Working great over here.

Your server already has the numbers to do everything else, and could afford to split up. Whereas other servers, especially lower tiered servers fighting undermanned will have to defend structures and couldn’t spend what little man power the have to cap nodes at that expense.

The problem of course, here, is if you’re on the weaker server, you’re pretty much doomed.

Gone where the days where it’s common for 10 or 15 to beat 25-30.

Orbs add such a great new dynamic to WvW. They empower smaller groups and even smaller servers. It only takes 3 people to grant a buff to the entire server. I don’t understand the smaller servers complaining because all the lower tier servers don’t have enough people to cover each map, so this is a very realistic possiblility to accomplish. They are no longer held behind a keep protected by a zillion arrow carts and ballistae, but rather out in the open, up for grabs, keeping the tides turning.

It helps to eliminate zerging.

It forces one to make difficult choices between bloodlust and structures.

WvW was so stale before. Hold keeps, set up a ton of siege.

It gives smaller guilds something else to do that has a great impact on WvW.

If you are on a lower population server, and you would have most likely lost the match before, it makes no difference that orbs exist. If anything, it can only help your situation by outplaying a larger population server.

It makes different builds viable. Now that there’s more importance put on small group play, different builds are more viable. I’ve noticed a lot of PvP builds out there that I’ve fought.

It rewards actual fighting skill rather than who can protect a structure best. The largest zerg does not always win. The more skilled zerg wins, even if they are outnumbered 2:1. Now they are being rewarded for better builds, better teamwork, and better skill. Thanks.

There are lots of people that love the orb change, but because they are satisfied, they have no reason to take the time to sit down and write something well thought out. I am passionate about WvW and love the map changes and the added orb aspect. Everyone in my guild loves it and I haven’t heard one person on my server say it should be eliminated. Please don’t let other players drown out the people who are not represented on the forums and please don’t eliminate this great change just because there are so many people complaining. I assure you they are not representative of WvW.

Thank you for putting so much thought and time into the new maps and orb changes.

Not sure if serious or just...

Bloodlust thread merge please! It’s not just for the QQ threads, right?

Hello Anet,
I agree with Spurnshadow. The new bloodlust buff has given all WVW players a lot more to do on the borderland maps. This change especially benefits smaller roaming havoc guilds that cannot field a zerg, but can field enough to hold and keep the buff. This meaning that every kill they get makes them feel like they are actually supporting the server as a whole, instead of just flipping camps and assisting on the occasional keep take. This change has completely renewed my faith in WVW and pulled me away from the stale state the Borderlands had been in before.
This change has also had make great changes to zerging. Since the change has been put into place I have witnessed several zergs having to break up into squads to take and hold the points in order to prevent being back capped by a havoc squad of another server. This is doing wonders for reducing total level of zerging occurring in these maps. I have also seen some zergs have to make the hard choice of losing a tower or keep vs keeping or taking the buff, because they now understand how much power the buff actually gives a servers players in the ability to earn points for their realm.

Thank You for this update! And I can’t wait until the new seasons are released !!

Neuroticgrim.8769:

Hello Anet,
I agree with Spurnshadow. The new bloodlust buff has given all WVW players a lot more to do on the borderland maps. This change especially benefits smaller roaming havoc guilds that cannot field a zerg, but can field enough to hold and keep the buff. This meaning that every kill they get makes them feel like they are actually supporting the server as a whole, instead of just flipping camps and assisting on the occasional keep take. This change has completely renewed my faith in WVW and pulled me away from the stale state the Borderlands had been in before.
This change has also had make great changes to zerging. Since the change has been put into place I have witnessed several zergs having to break up into squads to take and hold the points in order to prevent being back capped by a havoc squad of another server. This is doing wonders for reducing total level of zerging occurring in these maps. I have also seen some zergs have to make the hard choice of losing a tower or keep vs keeping or taking the buff, because they now understand how much power the buff actually gives a servers players in the ability to earn points for their realm.

Thank You for this update! And I can’t wait until the new seasons are released !!

This is your first and only post on the forums?!?!

No, just someone in a balance Tier (Tier 1).

Everyone BG/JQ/SoR needs to be banned from the conversation on Bloodlust.

Spurnshadow.3678:

I assure you they are not representative of WvW.

Really ?
Sounds to me like you have no idea what you are talking about.

When I roam I circle AROUND the buffs because thats where I will find the fights, everyone ignores the capture points because its a big pile of kitten, the ruins itself are decent, but not the stat boost.
Yesterday the 3 servers used one of the capture points as a dueling arena, lol.

Yes there are maybe 2-3 people capturing the buffs, but Im sure some guilds who are looking for fights and do GvG or people who want duels dont really want to have 3 stacks. Thats the real wvw right there, where builds/skill/teamplay etc matters, not standing on a empty capture point for a minute, run around, wait another minute, repeat and woo look at that, I got extra stats !!!

Gamadorn.2659:

Neuroticgrim.8769:

Hello Anet,
I agree with Spurnshadow. The new bloodlust buff has given all WVW players a lot more to do on the borderland maps. This change especially benefits smaller roaming havoc guilds that cannot field a zerg, but can field enough to hold and keep the buff. This meaning that every kill they get makes them feel like they are actually supporting the server as a whole, instead of just flipping camps and assisting on the occasional keep take. This change has completely renewed my faith in WVW and pulled me away from the stale state the Borderlands had been in before.
This change has also had make great changes to zerging. Since the change has been put into place I have witnessed several zergs having to break up into squads to take and hold the points in order to prevent being back capped by a havoc squad of another server. This is doing wonders for reducing total level of zerging occurring in these maps. I have also seen some zergs have to make the hard choice of losing a tower or keep vs keeping or taking the buff, because they now understand how much power the buff actually gives a servers players in the ability to earn points for their realm.

Thank You for this update! And I can’t wait until the new seasons are released !!

This is your first and only post on the forums?!?!

Nope, I am an actual player who is enjoying himself and the new buff in WVW. Also, yes, I am on the T1 server Blackgate. Why would you remove JQ/BL/SOR from the Bloodlust discussions? Those three servers make up some of the biggest numbers of actual WVW players in the game. Not all of us spend all day on here posting, some of us are actually in the game taking and defending objectives but I felt that I needed to get on here and help defend something that has actually made good changes to the game as a whole.

now that my 2 cents are in, back to the game for me, have a garrison to go knock on.

All I can say is my match up has been such a blowout I started pve instead and I’m on the wining side.

Please tell me how adding 150 stats to the whole server (which can be claimed by 3 people) benifits wvw as a whole?

you claim it creates fights to keep them on your side.

We already had fights, we had guilds who would run and chase after zergs and or have roamers take out stranglers.
guess what those zergs hid in towers/keeps with siege lol

this buff does nothing for zerg busting groups or roamers of the under populated servers. it handicaps us more than we where already.
How about make this buff give the zergs more wxp for each instead of stats.

over all only Stacked server like this buff since it makes their lives in game much more easy when it comes to dealing with real skilled groups.

I see already some posts on this thread have been removed by the devs, including mine. Fair enough; let’s not fuel more a conversation where the only ones in favour of the current state of wvw are, very likely, players that are new or pertain to t1 (aka the balanced servers).
A thread with only two posts on how good is Bloodlust, says it all.
With all respect to everybody’s opinion, I believe that the majority of dedicated WvW players has already taken a stance.

Dear WvW team,

Your work on the new orb buff, bloodlust, was fantastic. The dynamics it has created are amazing. Players of all classes and builds now feel like they have more roles, worth, and purpose. Strategies have expanded and become more complex. People are enjoying wvw on a much higher level than ever before. Everyone from the lone wolf to the massive organized guilds feel important, which is really good for sustaining population and interest.

It saddens me to see players complain about the bloodlust, and say that it’s overpowered or that it needs major rebalancing. Those who know little have many opinions, and they are more than willing to share them. You can just look at tier 1 and see how it’s actually very balanced.

I can’t say I speak for every guild on blackgate, but everyone in KnT thinks these changes are amazing and I believe the rest of the server is of the same mindset. We thank you for your time and effort, we know it’s not easy, and we know it’s hard with limited resources at your disposal. Good work everyone!

Also the design and map layout of the bloodlust areas are amazing. The amount of depth it adds to small pvp combat is incredible. I don’t know why spvp maps aren’t more like this.

Good work team!

Manuelito.6081:

A thread with only two posts on how good is Bloodlust, says it all.
With all respect to everybody’s opinion, I believe that the majority of dedicated WvW players has already taken a stance.

Negative people like to post a lot. People who are enjoying the content are playing it, not talking about it on the forums. Dedicated players are in WvW, not posting on the forums. It’s easier to go and post something nasty than to take the time to post something constructive and nice. Counting negative vs positive posts is in NO way a concrete way of determining popularity of the new content. You’d be silly to assume that.

I’m not against bloodlust buff, I’m against about stats in it! Replace it by something that do not destroys balance on the fields, for eg. give buffs to sige dmg/def and give small rewards for caping points. I don’t give a kitten what but no stats.

People don’t like the notion that the fight they are in is inherently unfair, remove the stats. Its killing a lot of fun in wvw.

Draygo.9473:

People don’t like the notion that the fight they are in is inherently unfair, remove the stats. Its killing a lot of fun in wvw.

It promotes 2v1ing the top server. Which is how it should be.

Keep the stats, it gives an incentive for the 2 less powerful servers to attack the most powerful server together. The buff should have some power, if it has no power, then there will be no point in getting it, and there will be no point to go to the new content area.

Strategy and skill still overwhelms the stats. We have had even large scale fights, where we had no orbs, and the other server had 3, and we still wiped them consistently.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Draygo.9473:

People don’t like the notion that the fight they are in is inherently unfair, remove the stats. Its killing a lot of fun in wvw.

It promotes 2v1ing the top server. Which is how it should be.

Keep the stats, it gives an incentive for the 2 less powerful servers to attack the most powerful server together. The buff should have some power, if it has no power, then there will be no point in getting it, and there will be no point to go to the new content area.

Strategy and skill still overwhelms the stats. We have had even large scale fights, where we had no orbs, and the other server had 3, and we still wiped them consistently.

You missing a point, i want preserve some level of fairnes in the battles. If buff would affect sige defence for example about -20% for each stack and small reward for caping(for ppl who feel that they are loosing time because they don’t get wxp) and you see commanders asking for roaming teams to cap points. Bloodlust should have tactical impact but class balance should be preserved.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Draygo.9473:

People don’t like the notion that the fight they are in is inherently unfair, remove the stats. Its killing a lot of fun in wvw.

It promotes 2v1ing the top server. Which is how it should be.

Keep the stats, it gives an incentive for the 2 less powerful servers to attack the most powerful server together. The buff should have some power, if it has no power, then there will be no point in getting it, and there will be no point to go to the new content area.

Strategy and skill still overwhelms the stats. We have had even large scale fights, where we had no orbs, and the other server had 3, and we still wiped them consistently.

and more numbers overwhelms all of the above, but when those overwhelming numbers are also enjoying +150 to all stats its not fun for anyone.

Dr Acula.3496:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Draygo.9473:

People don’t like the notion that the fight they are in is inherently unfair, remove the stats. Its killing a lot of fun in wvw.

It promotes 2v1ing the top server. Which is how it should be.

Keep the stats, it gives an incentive for the 2 less powerful servers to attack the most powerful server together. The buff should have some power, if it has no power, then there will be no point in getting it, and there will be no point to go to the new content area.

Strategy and skill still overwhelms the stats. We have had even large scale fights, where we had no orbs, and the other server had 3, and we still wiped them consistently.

and more numbers overwhelms all of the above, but when those overwhelming numbers are also enjoying +150 to all stats its not fun for anyone.

That’s a population issue. It has nothing to do with the orb buff.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Draygo.9473:

People don’t like the notion that the fight they are in is inherently unfair, remove the stats. Its killing a lot of fun in wvw.

It promotes 2v1ing the top server. Which is how it should be.

Keep the stats, it gives an incentive for the 2 less powerful servers to attack the most powerful server together. The buff should have some power, if it has no power, then there will be no point in getting it, and there will be no point to go to the new content area.

Strategy and skill still overwhelms the stats. We have had even large scale fights, where we had no orbs, and the other server had 3, and we still wiped them consistently.

Oh? I haven’t seen any change in how servers choose their targets.

Bloodlust does not promote 2v1ing the top server, there is nothing in the mechanics that make that so.

This is my first visit to the forums, and I came here solely to see what the prevailing opinion was concerning bloodlust. I have nothing to add to the conversation that hasn’t already been said many times, but I did want to share this:

I play on Kaineng, not a server known for its wvw prowess. But despite our lack of numbers, or maybe because of it, wvw was fun. When the bloodlust patch was released, I thought it sounded interesting, and between evenly matched servers, it probably is. Unfortunately, at Kaineng’s level opponents are rarely evenly matched.

This week we’re up against Maguuma, a server with a strong numerical advantage. In past match-ups, when their zerg came, we rallied to defend our keeps and towers, and although we usually lost, the dead of both sides littered the battlefield. Then, after their zerg moved on to fight our other opponent, we had the fun of recapturing our territory against the few groups they left behind to defend. It was exciting, and even though we generally lost badly overall, I enjoyed it.

This week is different. Maguuma almost always has the major buff, and the battles are far more one-sided than they used to be. We don’t just lose, we’re steamrolled. A few days ago, one of our commanders (we often only have one tagged commander for all maps) led us to our borderland to try to claim at least a minor buff. Maguuma had nearly as many people defending the ruins as we could field in total. Despite our initial slight numerical advantage, the buffs allowed them to hold us off until reinforcements arrived, penned us in, and slaughtered us. Subsequent attempts in the other borderlands fared no better.

During the time period that I most commonly play, there are usually at least twenty people following our commander in EB. Yesterday there were approximately ten. Today I counted eight. The reason for the waning numbers is obvious in map chat: what was once fun has become demoralizing and frustrating.

In short, even on lowly servers like Kaineng, there are people who love wvw and have no interest in changing servers. But it’s not much fun when there’s no hope of holding anything for longer than it takes righteous indignation to expire. Please, anet, either get much better at matching servers or rethink the bloodlust addition.

Draygo.9473:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Draygo.9473:

People don’t like the notion that the fight they are in is inherently unfair, remove the stats. Its killing a lot of fun in wvw.

It promotes 2v1ing the top server. Which is how it should be.

Keep the stats, it gives an incentive for the 2 less powerful servers to attack the most powerful server together. The buff should have some power, if it has no power, then there will be no point in getting it, and there will be no point to go to the new content area.

Strategy and skill still overwhelms the stats. We have had even large scale fights, where we had no orbs, and the other server had 3, and we still wiped them consistently.

Oh? I haven’t seen any change in how servers choose their targets.

Bloodlust does not promote 2v1ing the top server, there is nothing in the mechanics that make that so.

I don’t know how I can explain this in any simpler terms. But I will try.

bloodlust = power
servers want power
power = points
2 servers fight 1 server to take away power

Bloodlust = power to those who work for it.

Those who work for it require numbers to dedicate time to take bloodnodes.

You need numbers to take targets, and to maintain bloodnodes.

The server with more number can maintain such.

It means servers fighting with similar numbers will have fair amount of chances obtaining it.

It means servers not of equal number population during coverage times will not have equal amount of chances obtaining it while fighting for land targets.

It means it favors the server with numerical advantage of whom can dish out numbers to take the nodes and the targets but not the server whom lacks numbers because either the latter can choose to defend targets only or take the nodes or just quit wvw for the week or try to fight and get pawned.

We already know that wvw is a coverage/numbers game. It is already a grinding game. The mechanics of which are already not fair. However, it need not be more unfair than it already is.

And since this game is supposed to be an e-sport material, why should it be recognized as such if it doesn’t meet equal opportunity to win on the three sides?

Other than that, this game is awesome. PVE, PVP, TPVP, except WVW. Well, you can’t have everything I suppose.

Sovereign.1093:

Bloodlust = power to those who work for it.

Those who work for it require numbers to dedicate time to take bloodnodes.

You need numbers to take targets, and to maintain bloodnodes.

The server with more number can maintain such.

It means servers fighting with similar numbers will have fair amount of chances obtaining it.

It means servers not of equal number population during coverage times will not have equal amount of chances obtaining it while fighting for land targets.

It means it favors the server with numerical advantage of whom can dish out numbers to take the nodes and the targets but not the server whom lacks numbers because either the latter can choose to defend targets only or take the nodes or just quit wvw for the week or try to fight and get pawned.

We already know that wvw is a coverage/numbers game. It is already a grinding game. The mechanics of which are already not fair. However, it need not be more unfair than it already is.

And since this game is supposed to be an e-sport material, why should it be recognized as such if it doesn’t meet equal opportunity to win on the three sides?

---

Other than that, this game is awesome. PVE, PVP, TPVP, except WVW. Well, you can’t have everything I suppose.

We laugh everytime we see people try to zerg the bloodlust nodes. We just follow them and backcap everything. If there’s anything bloodlust does well, it allows low numbers of players have a big effect on wvw.

If you’re already severely outnumbered, you’re going to lose anyways. The complaint here is that they killed you in 2 seconds instead of 2.1 seconds?

I don’t think Anet ever intends for WvW to be an Esport. Just sPvP.

Sovereign.1093:

You cannot and should not try to satisfy everyone. It is impossible.

Irony abound!

Let me say this:

If you are not in NA tier one, by metrics, you just don’t count. The numbers don’t lie, and personally, I couldn’t care less about Tier 8 matches. I don’t hate the people in the lower tiers, but lets look at this logically. From what I’m reading, it seems as though the majority of you want to ruin a game mode that is very well balanced for the larger portion of players. There’s a difference between the number of servers and participation population. Yes T8-3 has a significantly less player density WvWing than T1. EURO server don’t even come close. Even without this mechanic, you are losing a match up that your server would have already lost anyways.
Low tier matches are not an excuse to change a great mechanic that fixes huge problems for the majority of the game type’s population. This is not because anyone hates you, we simply need to treat all players equally. Making changes to orb buffs on the grounds that vastly lower populated servers are still losing their matches is illogical.
On the subject of roaming (away from objectives) and small engagements, while I understand why you may find this change unfavorable you are not part of the discussion about the game type. There is no incentive for small 5 vs 5. They are fun, but you cannot expect actions that do not help the goal of the game type to be taken into account during balancing, that is illogical. You can now become part of wvw by attempting to capture Blood Lust.
In Games, the goal of balancing is to incentivize actions towards the GOAL of the game. In WvW the goal is to be the server with the most war points at the end of a 7 day match.
WvW IS about PPT. Yes PPT comes from coverage, yes siege helps alot, yes some times you need 40+ players killing less than 10 players for gain PPT/war points. That is the game type. Don’t ask to change mechanics that are fixing problems for the majority of players attempting to achieve the goal of the game type.
You may see a lot of posts here about how bad blood lust is, but everyone from a low pop server is the loud minority. And anyone talking about small engagements (that are not expressly for capturing Blood Lust) are off topic as they are not incentivized in the game type.

That said, Blood lust has been an amazing update. The dev team surpassed my highest expectations and added new life to an old game type while fixing many major problems.

Zack.7863:

Let me say this:

If you are not in NA tier one, by metrics, you just don’t count. The numbers don’t lie, and personally, I couldn’t care less about Tier 8 matches. I don’t hate the people in the lower tiers, but lets look at this logically. From what I’m reading, it seems as though the majority of you want to ruin a game mode that is very well balanced for the larger portion of players. There’s a difference between the number of servers and participation population. Yes T8-3 has a significantly less player density WvWing than T1. EURO server don’t even come close. Even without this mechanic, you are losing a match up that your server would have already lost anyways.
Low tier matches are not an excuse to change a great mechanic that fixes huge problems for the majority of the game type’s population. This is not because anyone hates you, we simply need to treat all players equally. Making changes to orb buffs on the grounds that vastly lower populated servers are still losing their matches is illogical.
On the subject of roaming (away from objectives) and small engagements, while I understand why you may find this change unfavorable you are not part of the discussion about the game type. There is no incentive for small 5 vs 5. They are fun, but you cannot expect actions that do not help the goal of the game type to be taken into account during balancing, that is illogical. You can now become part of wvw by attempting to capture Blood Lust.
In Games, the goal of balancing is to incentivize actions towards the GOAL of the game. In WvW the goal is to be the server with the most war points at the end of a 7 day match.
WvW IS about PPT. Yes PPT comes from coverage, yes siege helps alot, yes some times you need 40+ players killing less than 10 players for gain PPT/war points. That is the game type. Don’t ask to change mechanics that are fixing problems for the majority of players attempting to achieve the goal of the game type.
You may see a lot of posts here about how bad blood lust is, but everyone from a low pop server is the loud minority. And anyone talking about small engagements (that are not expressly for capturing Blood Lust) are off topic as they are not incentivized in the game type.

That said, Blood lust has been an amazing update. The dev team surpassed my highest expectations and added new life to an old game type while fixing many major problems.

^ This, ^ this, and ^ this

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Sovereign.1093:

Bloodlust = power to those who work for it.

Those who work for it require numbers to dedicate time to take bloodnodes.

You need numbers to take targets, and to maintain bloodnodes.

The server with more number can maintain such.

It means servers fighting with similar numbers will have fair amount of chances obtaining it.

It means servers not of equal number population during coverage times will not have equal amount of chances obtaining it while fighting for land targets.

It means it favors the server with numerical advantage of whom can dish out numbers to take the nodes and the targets but not the server whom lacks numbers because either the latter can choose to defend targets only or take the nodes or just quit wvw for the week or try to fight and get pawned.

We already know that wvw is a coverage/numbers game. It is already a grinding game. The mechanics of which are already not fair. However, it need not be more unfair than it already is.

And since this game is supposed to be an e-sport material, why should it be recognized as such if it doesn’t meet equal opportunity to win on the three sides?

---

Other than that, this game is awesome. PVE, PVP, TPVP, except WVW. Well, you can’t have everything I suppose.

We laugh everytime we see people try to zerg the bloodlust nodes. We just follow them and backcap everything. If there’s anything bloodlust does well, it allows low numbers of players have a big effect on wvw.

If you’re already severely outnumbered, you’re going to lose anyways. The complaint here is that they killed you in 2 seconds instead of 2.1 seconds?

I don’t think Anet ever intends for WvW to be an Esport. Just sPvP.

Sovereign.1093:

You cannot and should not try to satisfy everyone. It is impossible.

Irony abound!

No irony here. Just saying my peace. Whether you accept it or not is entirely up to you, but I will continue to posit my position none-the-less.

After all, we don’t agree. And it seems you’ve justified to yourself that this wvw experience is a good thing, but I experience it different.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Draygo.9473:

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Draygo.9473:

People don’t like the notion that the fight they are in is inherently unfair, remove the stats. Its killing a lot of fun in wvw.

It promotes 2v1ing the top server. Which is how it should be.

Keep the stats, it gives an incentive for the 2 less powerful servers to attack the most powerful server together. The buff should have some power, if it has no power, then there will be no point in getting it, and there will be no point to go to the new content area.

Strategy and skill still overwhelms the stats. We have had even large scale fights, where we had no orbs, and the other server had 3, and we still wiped them consistently.

Oh? I haven’t seen any change in how servers choose their targets.

Bloodlust does not promote 2v1ing the top server, there is nothing in the mechanics that make that so.

I don’t know how I can explain this in any simpler terms. But I will try.

bloodlust = power
servers want power
power = points
2 servers fight 1 server to take away power

humans are hedonists that follow the path of least resistance. if one server has the buffs, and two don’t, those two aren’t going to team up against the one that does. they’re going to go after each other, while the one with the buffs take from both of them at will. we’ve watched exactly that happen over the past year. the few times the two weaker servers attempted to team up against the stronger one, it’s been a complete disaster, because trying to organize two servers into a truce is downright impossible, and the instant one shot gets fired it’s over. so no, the buffs won’t promote a 2v1 against the server that has them. it will continue to promote the two even servers to fight against each other, while the stronger one whittles them both down.

Why bloodlust has to be stat bonus? For ppl who like caping nodes and fight there wouldn’t be better if they small scale fights are not touched by unfair buff? My point is, I would enjoy vicotry much better without any stats addition. The other problem with bonus stats it affects several builds more than others, some of them to the point that they become hilarious.

The premise behind wvw is numbers and coverage will result to victory. There hasn’t been any move to fix this problem since day one up to now. Hopefully that will change in the future.